Wanderer, here is a partial breakdown of my thinking on the IJ issue. It is by no means complete, but I thought I would just get started and hope to clarify things as they come up. I have broken down the doctrine sentence by sentence (ish). Scriptural support which applies to that sentence, and my comments and concerns, are in red. I do not disagree with all of it; much of it is factually Biblical. But I think the early Adventists pushed it too far, largely as a face-saving mechanism as a result of the failed Great Disappointment.

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There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. Heb. 8:2

In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. Heb. 7:24, 25; 8:2

He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. Heb. 1:3; 4:14; 8:1

In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry.
It is not established that:
Christ has several "phases" to his work, or that some are incomplete. On the cross he said it was "finished."
I do not see the validity of linking the time-line of the 2300 days in Daniel 8 with the start date of the decree in Daniel 9.



It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement.
It has not been demonstrated that the Bible links the sanctuary and its services to the prophecies of Daniel.
It has not been shown that God, who is omniscient, needs to "investigate" anything. God knows who are his.

In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. Hebrews 9:11-28


The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences (Who, exactly?) who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. Why do they need to know? It is God who judges. God knows his own.

It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom.
This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom.

The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.
It has not been shown that Christ's ministry was not complete at the cross.
(Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13,14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev.16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12;22:12.)

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I belive it is more accurate to put this "judgement" or, more correctly, process of examining the "books" in the 1000 year period at the end of time. This then allows humans to review God's process and realize his righteousness. (although even this idea raises questions that should be examined.)

Here is a quote from Harold A. McGregor Jr. writing in Spectrum December 6, 2013.

"Supporting evidence for the I.J. is often hard to understand, convoluted, contradictory, very technical, highly debatable, inaccessible, or nonexistent. In other words, it is hardly the model of a secure and reasonable biblical doctrine."

Read the entire short article here:

http://spectrummagazine.org/article/haro...e-main-problems

If anyone knows who McGregor is I would appreciate it if you would post it. I do not know him and could find mothing about him.

Hm - are you and I still sinners? Was the Passover the completion of the the Jewish economy or were their other aspects to yet come? Pentecost, Trumpets, The Day of Atonement, and Feast of Tabernacles? Christ offered a complete sacrifice on the Cross. But was this the end of His ministry? No.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here.

Just wanted to add--
One of the reasons most Christians can see no sense in a last day Investigative Judgment is because they don't believe that the dead are literally dead (as in totally unconscious body and soul, and uninvolved with life in any way). Thus in much of Christian theology, the dead go immediately to hell or to heaven or, some, like the Catholics have an intermittent place called purgatory --
The point -- why have a judgment if sentence is already executed at the time of death? Why have a future judgment at all if those beliefs were correct?

The Cross was typified by which Jewish Feast? Was that feast at the beginning or end of the Jewish annual feast cycle? What did each feast typify? That is what I'm talking about Christ's ministry was not completed on the Cross. His Sacrifice was completed on the Cross. But that was only the beginning of the Jewish cycle. Read Leviticus 23.

What has not been shown by those who say "Christ's ministry was finished at the cross" is that Christ meant His entire ministry when He said "It is finished".
The designation of WHAT was finished in that sentence is speculation, not Biblical.

So the Question?

What was finished at the cross?

Was it a specific and central work Christ had come to earth to perform?
If so, what is that specific and central work?
Or was all of Christ's ministry complete at that point?

APL is pointing us to the festivals -- these festivals are a blue print of salvation.
Christ died on Passover, the first feast in the Jewish year -- and He provided the ONCE AND FOR ALL SACRIFICE, the true Passover Lamb -- opening up a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Heb. 10:20

So obviously Christ's ministry is not finished.


The feast of Pentecost was yet future, it came after the cross when, Christ, now inaugurated and ministering as our high priest in heaven, sent the Holy Spirit to His followers, enabling them to witness with power to the nations and live Christ filled lives.

The book of Hebrews shows Christ ministering AFTER the cross, doing a very important work of mediation, and preparing people for the heavenly kingdom.

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant,
8:6

While the work Christ had come to earth to fulfill was finished, and the sacrifice once and for all completed, Christ's ministry didn't end at the cross.

Just like the Passover festival didn't end the Jewish yearly feasts-- but signify more of Christ's ministry.

There are yet the fall festivals
The day of atonement when the sanctuary was cleansed, and any unrepentant sinners were "cut off" from Israel.

Hebrews 9:23 speaks of the heavenly things needing to be cleansed as well. Yes, the once and for all sacrifice is adequate for that service, yet according to the "blue print" the day of atonement happens near the end, not at the same time as the Passover.
It was a day of judgment, but it still was not the last festival.

Then came the joyous feast of tabernacles celebrating the entry into the land of Canaan.
Typifying God's faithful entering the heavenly Canaan!


It is after the plagues have fallen and Christ is about to come that the announcement is made --
IT IS DONE. Rev. 16:17

What is done at that point?

The time has come for the marriage supper of the Lamb!

That is yet future -- and Christ is ministering NOW in preparation for it.

Why not?
In Daniel 9 an angel is sent to Daniel to explain the vision.
Daniel 9:23
What vision? there is no vision in Daniel 9, only the Angel giving information. But there is a vision in chapter 8 which Daniel did not understand (8:27) and was rather troubled over, He was also troubled about how his people fit into this as his prayer in Daniel 9 shows.

Actually the chapters 7,8,9 are all about Christ's sanctuary ministry. They are one continuous revelation of Christ's ministry! They all fit together like a puzzle.

To understand first consider:

The earthly sanctuary had three parts:
1. The court yard
2. The holy place
3. The most holy place

Each of these three parts had a specific purpose with specific ministry taking place within them.

1. The outer court was where sacrifices were slain, there was also the laver of water.

2. The Holy Place -- the bread, the incense, the light.

3. The Most Holy Place -- where the ark of the covenant which contained the ten commandments of the covenant were (Deut 4:13) -- the high priest only entered on the day of Atonement for the cleansing of the people, and the sanctuary. It was regarded as a day of judgment.

Each signifies a specific work, or phase of ministry of Christ and each of Daniel's three chapters (7,8,9) deal with a different phase of Christ's work.

1. The outer court (this earth) and Daniel 9
Daniel Chapter 9 deals with Christ's ministry in the outer court. His ministry upon earth where He provided the all sufficient sacrifice, the atoning sacrifice, by which to minister the atoning work. This happens in the midst of the last week of the 490 day/years which is cut off (cut off from what?) from the time period in the vision Gabriel has come back to more fully explain -- 2300 day/years.




2. The Holy Place and Daniel Chapter 8
Chapter 8 deals with Christ's ministry in the holy place where the daily takes place. Daily the priest would take care of the lamps, the incense. Just as Christ sent out His Holy Spirit to light the churches, and mixes His incense with our prayers making us acceptable to God.
This daily was usurped by the "papal horn".
They established earthly priests, confessionals, human mediators. They elected bishop overseers whom they sometimes styled as High Priests. This finally resulted in the Papacy.

The Lord's supper was changed from a memorial service to an atoning sacrifice, offered continually, "daily" by an earthly priest in mass. The priests claim power to change the "host" or bread into the actual body of Christ which is offered in a "bloodless" sacrifice on the altar at the front of the church. People come to mass to receive forgiveness. This power claimed the right to forgive or withhold forgiveness. They offer indulgences, absolutions, and even claim to be "gods" upon earth. (See The Priest: His Dignity and Obligations by Saint John Eudes p. 8)

It progresses till the end of 2300 day/years, when the cleansing of the sanctuary begins.

3. The Most Holy Place and Daniel Chapter 7
Chapter 7 deals with Christ's ministry in the Most Holy Place, where the heavenly court is seated with thousand times thousands and 10,000 times 10,000 in attendance. (These are God's angels, as revealed in Rev. 3:5 and Rev. 5:11)
This court session begins sometime after the 1260 year/days or (at the end of the 2300 years --chapter 8 was more specific as to the date).
Christ is brought before the court as "the son of man". (7:13) He receives the dominion of earth for mankind,(7:14) who will receive it through Christ,(7:27) who presents their names before the Father and the angels. (See also Rev. 3:5)

I am completely unconvinced of the above assertions. Daniel 7,8, and 9 are prophecies of the world's future, and I have never seen them pitched by anyone as Christ's ministry. This theology would require MASSIVE amounts of support for me to buy into it.


If it is claimed that these are God's angels based on the similarity of language between Daniel 7:10 and Rev. 3:5 and 5:11, I would maintain that Daniel 7:13 refers to Christ's second coming based on the similarity of language with Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62, and Revelation 1:7.

As correctly noted previously, Daniel 7:10 does not mention people anywhere. On the other hand, nor does it mention angels. It could be understood as "thousands upon thousands [of angels] attended him (Matthew 4:11); ten thousand times ten thousand [people] stood before him (2 Corinthians 5:10).

The following outlines some of the reasons why I do not see strong support for a judgement starting in 1844:

1.It is based solely on two texts, which must be understood as working together--Daniel 8:14 and Daniel 9:24, 25.

However:
A. Are the time-frames mentioned referring to how long the event is or when it will start?

B. The two texts reference differing events.
Dan. 8 talks about the daily sacrifice, a rebellion that causes desolation, surrender of the sanctuary, the host trampled underfoot, and the sanctuary being re-consecrated.
Daniel 9 talks about "your people and your city", finishing transgression, putting an end to sin, atoning for wickedness, brining in everlasting righteousness, sealing up the vision and prophecy, and anointing the most holy.
In Dan. 9 Gabriel does not reference any of the terms from Dan. 8.
Much work would have to be done to show the parallels between the two texts.

C. Time frames are expressed with different terminology. Where Dan. 8 uses the expression "evenings and mornings," Dan. 9 expresses time in "sevens." On a related note, Adventists insist that the phrase "evenings and mornings" always refers to literal 24-hour days. But in this text they deviate from their rule and interpret it to mean "years."

D. There are no other biblical references to support either the time-line or the start-date. All hinges on accepting the relationship of Daniel 8:14 to Daniel 9:24, 25.

E. It is not exactly clear what is meant by "sanctuary" or "cleansed/restored." William Miller evidently got it wrong, and there is no assurance that the current interpretation is accurate.