I'm going to throw in a bit of monkey wrench here -- but I have question.

Was America founded on Christian/Judeo principles or was it founded on something else, but the influence of many of it's citizens who held to Christian principles gave it it's moral character?

There is a difference.

The idea in many Christian's minds today, is if we could just get Christians into government and pass Christian laws, America would be great again. But isn't that exactly what prophecy says will happen and it will be the ruin of America?

Good question. For a short answer go and read my last post to kland in the "Crucifix with Jesus hanging on cross hate crime?" thread. I quote a fair amount out of the first chapter of Alexis de Toqueville's book, American Institutions and Their Influence. For a longer answer download and read the book. It's free from a variety of sources. I got it from the Gutenberg Project.

For a very short answer, de Toqueville thought that the religion of the Pilgrims and their political ideals, which were the basis for our form of government, were inseparable.

To me the answer is pretty clear. Let me know what you think.

Now it's true that the Puritans and other Christian groups that fled the old country to find religious freedom in America had a tremendous influence on America's development. The Christian climate was strong. However, the Puritans had not yet accepted a true sense of "religious liberty". You wouldn't enjoy life in their colony if you didn't keep Sunday, or if you were a Quaker or some other religion that differed from theirs.

If you wanted religious liberty you had to go to Roger Williams' colony.

But those were just colonies, when talking about the actual forming of the US government we find a different ideology entering into the picture. The Pilgrims did not found the United States.

When we study history we find that the Revolutionary War and the nation's government were structured by the tenets of Freemasonry, not God's Word.

This was the age of the revolutions.
Some of the same freemasonry minds that helped instigate the French Revolution, also helped instigate the American Revolution.
Men like -- Lafayette, French liaison to the Colonies, was a Freemason.

Thomas Paine was an English American writer whose "Common Sense" and other writings influenced the American Revolution, and helped pave the way for the Declaration of Independence. Yet he was an infidel, and even shows up in EGW writings as an agent of Satan! Yet he used the Bible -- which deceives many into thinking he was a Christian.

Thomas Jefferson was an American Founding Father who was the principal author of the Declaration of Independence and later served as the third President of the United States, but he was a deist with Masonic connections.

George Washington a high level Mason, was very involved with that society. The laying of the corner stone of America's capital was done in full Masonic ritual with G. Washington in Masonic dress.

People confuse masonry with Christianity because it uses some of the same language, but masonry is not Christian.

Yes, it brought freedom of religion --
Banishing the power of any church gaining control of government and coercing the whole society to worship in what they believed was the right way to worship.
It taught self government and moral responsibility.

This freedom of worship allowed Christianity to prosper in it's various forms, and this also greatly influenced American culture. It was truly a gift worked out for this country by God.

IF the Christians had largely maintained their integrity and commitment to God's law, then freedom of religion would have continued to be a great blessing.
It was the Christian influence that made it work.

But two things have happened --
Christianity has lost it's influence, one reason is because they attacked God's law, nailed it to the cross, in order to avoid the true Sabbath.
Secondly the masonic side of the equation has gained the upper hand in society --

America will yet reap the results that befell France

..."anarchy is seeking to sweep away all law, not only divine, but human. The centralizing of wealth and power; the vast combinations for the enriching of the few at the expense of the many; the combinations of the poorer classes for the defense of their interests and claims; the spirit of unrest, of riot and bloodshed; the world-wide dissemination of the same teachings that led to the French Revolution--all are tending to involve the whole world in a struggle similar to that which convulsed France. {Ed 228.2}

dedication,

What was the difference between the French revolution and the revolution of the American colonies? There is a very large difference.

The difference that I see, was the Christian influence.

In the French revolution the "Christian influence" was that of the Catholic tyrannical nature. The protestants had been cruelly massacred (Bartholomew massacre being the worst) by the church, but that was just one in many. Protestantism was basically driven out of France.
The lessons taught by the "church" were well learnt. And the "church" itself reaped the results in the revolution.

In America the Protestant influence was strong.
It countered the "evil" of masonry, and thus the principles of self government and liberties worked.

But still America was not founded as a Christian nation. It was founded as a "free nation". What it needs is revival in the churches to regain it's influence on culture in general, it does not need an enforcement of Christianity by government (not that I'm suggesting that you are recommending that, as I don't believe you are, but there are a lot of people who are)

Here is what I said earlier about the foundation of our form of government, only said much better than I can say it.



This is the beginning of the second chapter of the book I quoted above.

Notice how de Toqueville is in agreement with Ellen White as to how much the influence of the formative years of the child affects what the man later becomes. He ties this directly to the how the religion and politics found in New England--the Pilgrims--affected the formation of the US.

What I have been saying so far does not include the southern colonies, for it is there that a far different condition existed. There aristocracy ruled, morality was basically non-existent. No sooner were the southern colonies formed than slavery was introduced there. There the lower classes, the slaves, adventurers and the deported criminals from England were settled.

But, it was not from the south that our form of government was created. Yes, it had influence for before the constitution would be accepted by the south there were political compromises made or there would have never been a United States.

Ben Franklin is often said to be very irreligious, very secular. Let me give you a quote of what he said during the debates that took place during the framing of the constitution.



What follows are a couple more of Ben Franklin quotes. The first one comes from a pamphlet he wrote and published.



This quote comes from Franklin's autobiography.



I will also say that almost to a man the founding fathers of the US said God was responsible for the success of the revolutionary war.

Umm... The French Revolution deified the Goddess of Reason. The French revolution was the impetus for what has come to be known as rationalism, which denies miracles, the divinity of Christ, the inspiration by the Holy Spirit of the prophets of the Bible, etc.... Catholicism, as was all religion, was execrated by the leaders of the that revolution. These men were all anti-God.

The difference between the two revolutions was the Americans welcomed God and the French denied Him and all He stands for.

A very good small book on this by a Millerite is The Origin, Nature, and Influence of Neology. The author is N.N. Whiting.
Here is a link to an online copy at the EGW Estate. https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/1467.2#0

The first 30 or so pages of the book outline this history.

dedication,

Being founded as a Christian nation, and being founded on Christian principles are two different things. I have never said the US was founded as a Christian nation. I have always said the latter. That's the same thing de Toqueville is saying in his book.

I guess I wasn't clear enough.
The Christian influence that the French people knew was that of the tyrannical Catholic church.

It's true the revolutionists throw off all christianity, and I did state that the "church" reaped the results of the lessons she had taught.

It was the church that banned the Bible from the general population and murdered those who dared proclaim the truths found in it's pages. They taught the lessons that bore fruit in the revolution.

True, the revolution, revolted against Christianity, they threw out the true with the false.

But remember: