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#184832 - 08/07/17 02:59 PM Changing the Constitution
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Is Changing the Constitution the Only Way to Fix Washington?

Quote:
Next month delegations of state lawmakers will travel to Phoenix, Arizona, to attend what organizers say will be the first formal convention of states since the Civil War. They’ll gather at the capitol, inside the turquoise-carpeted House chamber, and draw up rules for a hoped-for future meeting: a convention to draft an amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

No “amendment convention” has taken place since the Constitution was written over 200 years ago. But the idea is gaining steam now, stoked by groups on the left and right that say amendments drafted and ratified by states are the last, best hope for fixing the nation’s broken political system and dysfunctional — some even say tyrannical — federal government.(Stateline August 07, 2017)


We are most certainly headed for serious times.
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#184839 - 08/07/17 04:55 PM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
Gary K Offline
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Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Colville, Wa
dedication,

We most certainly live under the old Chinese curse. The one that curses men to live in interesting times.

I have heard, and I don't know this for sure, that there is a type of Constitutional amendment that does not allow for changing what is already in the Constitution. I'm not sure if I even believe it. Just mentioning it as something I heard.

I've been hearing talk of a ConCon now for several years, and those who are doing this to reduce the size of government say they can do so without changing anything else, by rule. Whether or not the rule actually exists, or if anyone would actually follow the rule if it does exist is another question entirely.

The only way to fix Washington is to fix our society morally. Until that happens we are doomed to implement all kinds of failed attempts to "fix" Washington that have unintended consequences far worse than the ills they are trying to cure.

I have my doubts as to whether or not there will be a ConCon. Ellen White doesn't mention the Constitution being changed, but instead says the government will abandon all pretense of following it. And that's what she says will usher in the end of probation and Sunday laws.
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#184854 - 08/08/17 02:06 AM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
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"our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and Republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan, and that the end is near.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 451.
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#184857 - 08/08/17 08:51 AM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
Gary K Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
"our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and Republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan, and that the end is near.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 451.


My memory has obviously failed me. I could have sworn that there was a quote about dropping all pretense of following the Constitution, but I couldn't find it when searching the EGW database.

All other signs point to this being the end too. Our economic, political, and morality issues are beyond the point of reversal. They are simply accelerating rather than showing any sign of slowing down. To me it seems, when reading the news as I do every day, as if the entire world has gone insane. There is so little honesty left that it is hard to find it in our world. Everyone wants to play games in an attempt to gain more power rather than face the issues.

It's pretty interesting that I just finished a book by Rene Noorbergen on the decline of the US. It was published in 1980, but it was if it was written today when looking at the world around us. All of the signs he talked about in the collapse of a civilization are present today. He was pondering the idea that we were beyond the point of recovery when he wrote the book, and he was right as the pace of collapse has only increased since then.

The book is The Death Cry of an Eagle. It's out of print now, but it's still available on some of the web sites that sell used books. I paid less than $5 for my copy.
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#184858 - 08/08/17 09:03 AM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
Gary K Offline
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Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Colville, Wa
Just one more comment on this. The quote you gave is already true. Our government has already repudiated the Constitution in practice. The 1st amendment is already gone. Obama saw to that. The 2nd amendment is under very heavy attack, and free speech is almost non-existent in practice. Ask the Trump supporters how much protection they get to publicly state their political opinion. They get physically attacked just about every time they demonstrate, and the police just stand back and let it happen and then rush in after people get bloodied.

Reading comments on the news sites is an education. More and more people are saying things like, I guess I need to go to one of these demonstrations as I'm a concealed carry permit holder. I'll teach these antifa thugs a thing or two if they think they can simply attack anyone who disagrees with them, and the cops won't do anything.

We are on the verge of civil war.
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#184915 - 08/13/17 12:26 AM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
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Originally Posted By: gary k
The quote you gave is already true. Our government has already repudiated the Constitution in practice. The 1st amendment is already gone. Obama saw to that. The 2nd amendment is under very heavy attack, and free speech is almost non-existent in practice. Ask the Trump supporters how much protection they get to publicly state their political opinion. They get physically attacked just about every time they demonstrate, and the police just stand back and let it happen and then rush in after people get bloodied.

...

We are on the verge of civil war.


You are right that the principles of the first amendment have been very much abused, and often ignored, -- but the first amendment still has a restraining power.
Compared to other countries who do not have the 1st amendment, America is still enjoying a lot of freedom!

The sad thing is, as you have pointed out, the signs are appearing that those freedoms are slipping away.

1st amendment 1791

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Religion
Congress has not (as far as I know) made a law establishing one religion.
However, "the free exercise of religion" --especially Christianity -- has been restricted to exercise "behind closed doors" and has been highly discouraged to show itself in public.

The freedom of speech
people can still pretty much say what they want to say, without being arrested, or imprisoned, except one must not call sin by its right name -- that may be called "hate speech" and incur penalties.
One problem Trump has is that he misused his "freedom of speech" and didn't carefully consider his words and the impact they made. If he had been more careful, he'd probably have a lot more support as there are many Americans tired of how things were being done in the past and would welcome change. His off the cuff remarks gave the opposition quite a bit of fodder to start their relentless campaign to destroy his presidency.

The press
Freedom of the press supposedly gives the printer or publisher exclusive control over what the publisher chooses to publish.
Though it seems many of the main publishers are on a propaganda platform.
While congress may or may not have made a law repudiating "freedom of the press", it appears some powers that be have put their men and women in charge of the publications and media output, to ensure their agenda is being promoted.
It's actually a "legal" way to get around the 1st amendment, --put your people in charge of the press and media, publish things to promote the agenda, and if action is taken against the press, they would claim the 1st amendment for their protection.


peaceably to assemble
The mobs are getting more and more out of control.
All kinds of protest marches. Like protestors marching against white supremists getting mowed down by a car deliberately speeding through the crowds -- Yes, things are getting more and violent and unreasonable.
But the very restraint shown by authorities, in not interfering unless actual violence occurs, is part of the American idea of no government interference in protest marches, etc.

We are on the verge of civil war.

Yes, I believe you are right.


And when, the horrors of the "French Revolution" are unleashed in America, then the so called "holy" dictator will arise and with the aid of supporters, take complete control of religion, of the press, and dictate who may and may not assemble, etc. etc. Freedom will disappear under the cloak of restoring a moral society, complete with a state religion and Sunday exaltation.

Aren't there already a lot of laws in place that would completely annual the constitution in a crises situation?







Top
#184929 - 08/15/17 09:48 AM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
Alchemy Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 2161
Loc: Asia
Originally Posted By: dedication
Is Changing the Constitution the Only Way to Fix Washington?

Quote:
Next month delegations of state lawmakers will travel to Phoenix, Arizona, to attend what organizers say will be the first formal convention of states since the Civil War. They’ll gather at the capitol, inside the turquoise-carpeted House chamber, and draw up rules for a hoped-for future meeting: a convention to draft an amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

No “amendment convention” has taken place since the Constitution was written over 200 years ago. But the idea is gaining steam now, stoked by groups on the left and right that say amendments drafted and ratified by states are the last, best hope for fixing the nation’s broken political system and dysfunctional — some even say tyrannical — federal government.(Stateline August 07, 2017)


We are most certainly headed for serious times.



Yes.

This is really being forced down people's throats. Shock doctrine and big bang tactics if you ask me.
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#184930 - 08/15/17 09:49 PM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
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Originally Posted By: Shepherd Express

In June, the Wisconsin State Assembly voted to join a multistate call for adding a Balanced Budget Amendment (BBA) to the U.S. Constitution. Under this measure, the BBA would be passed, not through Congress (as every other amendment has been), but through a state-led constitutional convention. Such an event has occurred exactly once before—in 1787, with George Washington presiding. The Founding Fathers met in Philadelphia with the purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation and ended up drafting what became the constitution. Were a constitutional convention to happen today, many legal experts agree, there’d be nothing to stop it from spiraling well beyond its mandate once again......

Critics worry that a BBA would harm the economy by blocking all deficit spending—preventing the federal government from intervening during recessions or addressing crises like natural disasters or national security threats. Even more than that, they fear that the BBA is really just an excuse to get the convention movement off the ground—that, once formed, there’d be nothing to prevent a runaway convention with delegates suggesting all manner of ideological tweaks and procedural hurdles far beyond the scope of a balanced budget.

“No matter what they say, the purpose is to get a group together and start fussing with the entire document,” Risser says. “There’s no purpose for a constitutional convention unless you want to rewrite the whole thing.” For opponents of the constitutional convention movement, this is where it really starts to get scary.....


So while the "entry wedge" seems to be addressing a problem that needs addressing.... yet instead of going the normal route of addressing problems they want to get into the constitution itself and start changing it! Once in, everything could change, and the constitution that has served America so well for over 200 years would basically be no more.

Though there are many who think a constitutional convention has too many safe guards for it to actually be called. Yet the agitation continues -- it's obvious some powers want to get their hands on the constitution.
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#184945 - 08/19/17 03:55 PM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
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Repudiating the Constitution

Originally Posted By: EGW
The lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided...this is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed. Letter 11, 1890, SDABC 7A 976


Before probation closes the gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the world. Christianity had nearly been snuffed out under the tyrannical rule of paganized religion that claimed to be Christian. The groups of people who still clung to their Bibles, Waldenses, Huguenots, Albegenses, and others were ruthlessly hunted and killed. The reformation, rediscovering the gospel was also under persecution. Something had to change for the gospel of the kingdom to be preached in all the world.

A strong nation rises, by the grace of God, in which freedom of religion was a cherished establishment! The development of a body of judicial law and Constitutional law which provided a mighty bulwark against the inquisition and intolerance of a dominant religion that had distorted the gospel and against oppressive totalitarian government.

Here people could freely exercise their religion. Here the Advent Awakening occurred and the three angels' message began to sound, not only in America, but travelling all around the world.

But the rejection of that great last day message -- the three angels' message led to a dramatic moral downfall in the nation. Christianity, having cast away the shield of truth, and "nailing God's law to the cross" in order to escape the Sabbath commandment, deprived them of the righteous power of influence they were to have in society, and nothing remained to stop the strong delusion from taking hold.

2 Thess. 2:10 They received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


The churches would, in an effort to silence the three angels' messages, declare that God's law was done away with at the cross, By sweeping away the law, errors in conversion and sanctification came in, and the way was prepared for the general breakdown of law and order that we see today.

This breakdown of law and order in turn concerns people and they call for the restoration of law and order.

"Human enactments, laws manufactured by satanic agencies under a plea of goodness and restriction of evil, will be exalted, while God's holy commandments are despised and trampled underfoot" RH Dec. 26, 1899, SDABC Vol. 7A 977


Laws and rulings generated to increase morality, at the same time eliminate liberty. That day is fast approaching as the escalating moral decline is alarming, and a cry for some "moral footing" by law will arise.

For several decades now, the "inalienable natural rights of an individual" have been replaced by relativism and an allegiance to equality.

It's a subtle shift and still carries with it the coating of freedom. It's the concept that whatever is right for you is right, there are no absolutes, be open minded to everything. Accept everything as possibly right. The danger they have been taught to fear is " moral truth" or pointing out sin. Anyone who truly believes something is right or wrong is a real danger to society! In other words -- the freedom to believe you are "right" is taken away.

So where is all this headed?

A world of ecumenical "togetherness" where there are no fundamental doctrines, only a so called "love" that has no real morals or absolutes and can barely be recognized as "love" -- at least not on any principled level.
And a "form of godliness" -- Sunday rest -- to supposedly "invoke" God's blessings upon them.

And this "religion" will be the law!
At the head is the pope --

But it won't work!
Love without absolutes and principles is not love.
That hatred against those who proclaim that there are absolutes, and true righteousness will be unleashed.
It will not bring peace -- but a terrible time of trouble as the constitution is repudiated and inquisitions and persecutions will take over.
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#184948 - 08/19/17 06:36 PM Re: Changing the Constitution [Re: dedication]
Mark Shipowick Offline
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I did hear something about this movement but forgot about it until I saw your thread Dedication. Thanks for reminding me. Here's a quote from a recent blog posted on PRWatch:
Quote:
Meanwhile, a faction of the Article V convention crowd seeking a much more radical rewrite of the Constitution made significant gains in 2017. The "Convention of States" (COS) project, run by the Texas-based Citizens for Self Governance, introduced wide-ranging resolutions calling for a broad convention to limit the powers of the federal government in 24 states and won passage in four, Arizona, Missouri, North Dakota, and Texas.

COS, whose budget more than tripled between 2011 and 2015 to $5.7 million, now has a total of 12 states behind its more unlikely, but more dangerous, approach. The group, founded by Tea Party Patriots founder Mark Meckler and Koch-tied dark money man Eric O'Keefe, has received major support from the Koch-linked Donors Trust and backing from ALEC, which has adopted COS’s proposal as a "model" bill. It seeks a constitutional convention to pass any number of amendments designed to limit the powers of the federal government, adopt term limits, and allow states to opt-out of regulations and even Supreme Court decisions they do not like.
Those changes sound reasonable to me but in the same blog the author notes that the movement has lost momentum since the start of the year, that they gained two states but lost three so the they are currently seven states short of the required 2/3 in Article V. The article was published June 12, 2017.

But I think you're right to be monitoring this carefully. In a crises this could be the way things unfold and we've already seen the compromises people are willing to make to preserve themselves.
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