HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,194
Posts195,567
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 12
Daryl 3
April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,178
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
2 registered members (2 invisible), 3,127 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
New Reply
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 13 14
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184589
07/17/17 04:44 AM
07/17/17 04:44 AM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
dedication,

What law is Peter quoting?


Quote:
Acts 10: 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Reply Quote
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184590
07/17/17 06:29 AM
07/17/17 06:29 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
Stick to the text -- what is Paul saying in this verse.


Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Justification is not sanctification
Both are necessary. Earlier in the lesson we talked about the need for circumcision -- circumcision of the flesh is no longer necessary, but the circumcision of the heart.

However here Paul is talking about justification.
What is the requirement for salvation? The law requires righteousness,--a righteous life, a perfect character; and this man has not to give. {DA 762.2}

Does legal justification make one righteous?

Is there other meanings for "justification" other than a legal definition?

Galatians 2:15-16 The Scriptures 1998+ (15) We, Yehudim by nature, and not of the gentiles, sinners, (16) knowing that a man is not declared right by works of Torah, but through belief in Yahushua Messiah, even we have believed in Messiah Yahushua, in order to be declared right by belief in Messiah and not by works of Torah, because by works of Torah no flesh shall be declared right.

If as in this version, justification = being declared right, would it be a lie to declare someone right if they are not actually right?

The law of Jehovah was burdened with needless exactions and traditions, and God was represented as severe, exacting, revengeful, and arbitrary. He was pictured as one who could take pleasure in the sufferings of his creatures. The very attributes that belonged to the character of Satan, the evil one represented as belonging to the character of God. Jesus came to teach men of the Father, to correctly represent him before the fallen children of earth. Angels could not fully portray the character of God, but Christ, who was a living impersonation of God, could not fail to accomplish the work. The only way in which he could set [JUSTIFY] and keep [SANCTIFY] men right was to make himself visible and familiar to their eyes. That men might have salvation he came directly to man, and became a partaker of his nature. {ST, January 20, 1890 par. 6}

The Father was revealed in Christ as altogether a different being from that which Satan had represented him to be.
{ST, January 20, 1890 par. 7}

----
Donald Short, in "Then Shall the Sanctuary Be Cleansed", written in 1958 but not published until 1990.

As Adventists approach the splendor of the most holy place they move toward a crisis. If we cling to the typical nature of Evangelical orthodoxy and are content with the routine substitutionary gospel of forensic, legal justification, we too will find ourselves rejecting the final work of the High Priest which is to minister salvation from sin. This work is accomplished only in the most holy place. Because of its supreme importance Satan appeared to move in to try to carry on the work of God. His success with our spiritual forefathers in the days of Christ must be a warning to us. His compelling interest to deceive has not changed. As long as he can make God's people content and happy with an immature and corrupted idea of what the cleansing of the sanctuary is to accomplish, just so long he can hold them in his power.

This means that Satan will endeavor to commandeer the whole system of substitution just as he took over the old covenant system to fight against Christ and the preaching of the new covenant. He will proclaim that the gospel of the Reformation, the preaching of Luther, is sufficient to prepare a people for the second advent, and the Lord will come when we have done enough proclaiming. He will insist that substitution is sufficient and there is no need for repentance and cleansing. As long as he can veil apostasy in the garb of orthodoxy, he has the Remnant deceived in the same way he had the Jews deceived. As they were enveloped in the routine of the sanctuary services being the goal of life and guaranteeing their salvation, so we have been content to have the blood of the Lamb provide a legal cancellation of the record in the books of heaven without the law being written in the heart. In each case truth has been compromised, for these were only a shadow of the real heart-cleansing God intended to teach. People who appeared as adults were actually children in their understanding. And so are we.

Growing out of this there have been thousands of sermons about the deplorable condition of Laodicea while the root has been untouched and left intact. The real problem is satisfaction with self; we have all we need, we are content, we know the plan of salvation as verily as the Jews knew Abraham. But they received not the promise and they are all in their graves and they will stay there until we understand that God has provided some better thing for us, "that they without us should not be made perfect" (Heb_11:40). This consummation of redemption rests upon the shoulders of the final generation, a responsibility that can only be met when that generation senses the travail and distress it has caused, but which in its immaturity has mercifully been hidden from it.

We are that generation!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184596
07/17/17 03:28 PM
07/17/17 03:28 PM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,419
Canada
It seems we are right back in the 1888 denial that we need Christ's justification.

It is the doom of Adventism to believe it is their achievement of righteousness that saves and to do so they must totally twist Paul's writings.

Yes, it's true that many twist it the other way -- implying we are saved without surrendering and repentance of sin, and "dying to self" and living for Christ in obedience. That is the other ditch.

But why is there this outright denial of our legal standing before God?
Without it, we are lost. PERIOD, I don't care how many sins you think you've overcome, without the legal standing before God -- the substitutionary sufficiency of Christ -- you are lost!



By the way -- I don't think Donald Short is correct. He tries to drive Adventism into the hopeless ditch of REJECTING the great truths of the Reformation.

That is why so many Adventists are "wandering the desert" in hopelessness. Hoping to get saved, but feeling unaccepted by God.

Satan doesn't care which ditch he pushes us into -- for there is salvation in neither.

Let's not push aside the scripture and bring forth the writings of men who are in opposition to the gospel.

Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: ] #184597
07/17/17 03:32 PM
07/17/17 03:32 PM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,419
Canada
Originally Posted By: Gary K
dedication,

What law is Peter quoting?


Quote:
Acts 10: 28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.


As I said -- there is validity in both aspects when dealing with the text in Ephesians.

Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184598
07/17/17 03:38 PM
07/17/17 03:38 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Short is not rejecting the reformation. He is saying do not stop there.

God is not worried about our legal standing with Him. Many are worried about it! And "justification" is not a legal adjustment our standing but a "setting right", and putting us right, New Covenant thinking, of writing the law on our minds. Setting right and keeping right.

To declare someone legally righteous without being actually righteous, is a lie.

Let's not push aside scripture, let's understand what it is really saying.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184599
07/17/17 03:48 PM
07/17/17 03:48 PM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,419
Canada
However, let's turn to Galatians again --

What law is Paul referring to when he writes:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The 1888 controversy was over that question ---

What law is Paul referring to

The message these men were bringing was that the law in Galatians referred to God's law -- the ten commandments, not just the ceremonial law!
The older men stood up and said -- no, no, it refers to the ceremonial law, never to the ten commandments.

So who was right?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184600
07/17/17 03:50 PM
07/17/17 03:50 PM
dedication  Offline OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,419
Canada
Let's not push aside scripture, let's understand what it is really saying.

But you are pushing aside that scripture --
you seem to be refusing to even discuss it.

No one is saying to "stop there" --
But we need to START there.

Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184602
07/17/17 04:04 PM
07/17/17 04:04 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication

The Protestant world is getting ready to celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, when Martin Luther — guided by the Holy Spirit — brought to millions crucial biblical truths that were long hidden under centuries of superstition and tradition....



It is interesting that you should have said that because the same is true for SDA that "Desmond Ford - guided by the Holy Spirit - brought to millions crucial biblical truths that were long hidden under decades of GROSSLY wrong interpretations of Daniel 8:14; he being the bright light that began with others long before him."

History keeps repeating itself over and over again. There is a unity of the faith and then there is a schism when the old become senile and blind to the greater light in which they live. Didn't the Jews reject Christ? And what was their end?

///

Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184603
07/17/17 04:12 PM
07/17/17 04:12 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
However, let's turn to Galatians again --

What law is Paul referring to when he writes:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The 1888 controversy was over that question ---

What law is Paul referring to

The message these men were bringing was that the law in Galatians referred to God's law -- the ten commandments, not just the ceremonial law!
The older men stood up and said -- no, no, it refers to the ceremonial law, never to the ten commandments.

So who was right?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


The question in 1888 was what law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, and the answer was: all law. Both the 10C and the Ceremonial Law.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Re: Third Quarter 2017 The Gospel in Galatians [Re: dedication] #184605
07/17/17 05:16 PM
07/17/17 05:16 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
And while the law in Galatians includes all law, the schoolmaster was speaking particularly of the moral law of 10 commandments as claimed by Jones and Waggoner.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Reply Quote
Page 4 of 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 13 14
Quick Reply

Options
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
CAPTCHA Verification



Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 04/18/24 05:51 PM
Iran strikes Israel as War Expands
by Rick H. 04/14/24 08:00 PM
Nebuchadnezzar Speaks: The Sunday Law
by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:07 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:24 PM
Chinese Revival?
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 06:12 PM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by Daryl. 04/05/24 12:04 PM
Destruction of Canadian culture
by ProdigalOne. 04/05/24 07:46 AM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 04/01/24 08:10 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/31/24 06:44 PM
Easter Sunday, Transgender Day of Visibility?
by dedication. 03/31/24 01:34 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by TruthinTypes. 03/30/24 12:02 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by ProdigalOne. 04/15/24 09:43 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:31 AM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by Rick H. 04/13/24 10:19 AM
A Second American Civil War?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:39 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by kland. 04/11/24 12:34 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by ProdigalOne. 04/06/24 07:10 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by dedication. 04/01/24 07:48 PM
Time Is Short!
by ProdigalOne. 03/29/24 10:50 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1