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#184903 - 08/12/17 12:56 AM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. * [Re: APL]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: dedication
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "evidence".
Yes, there is evidence that the Bible is true!
However, like Gary mentioned, many can't see the evidence because they don't have faith.

Faith is like a mustard seed. Just a little grain of faith implanted with just a little evidence can grow mightily, as by faith we walk and see God's hand in so many things.

On the other side --
Scientists have destroyed the faith of millions of young people. Even in our own schools, and I know this for a fact as my daughter attended an Adventist College and would phone home almost daily in consternation because the science teacher was belittling everything she had learned about science supporting creation. She finally dropped the class.
FAITH - is a gift of God.

So are you saying scientists with their evolutionary theory on origins can only destroy the faith of students upon whom God has chosen not to bestow the gift of faith?

What are you trying to say in answering my post with that sentence?



God has given every person that "grain" of faith, but what makes the difference as to whether it grows or dies, that is the question?




Roman 12:3 "think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Top
#184905 - 08/12/17 08:35 PM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. [Re: Gary K]
APL Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

5000+ Member
Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 5465
Loc: Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: APL
You are not required to continue. It is up to you. But thanks for all the "chances". That's very gracious of you.


You may think you're pretty smart, but you're not. You're no brighter than all the Biblical examples who thought they were the ones who were to define truth rather than God and His word. You're of the group who believe the Bible says it but it doesn't mean it. When you can say the Angel of the Lord is the devil, well, you've wandered a long ways away from the Bible, and from honesty.

People who think like you are the reason this site now has so few active members. When it's impossible to have an honest discussion the honest people leave, and that is what has happened here, and other SDA forums too. The forums have become nothing but Babel. They are utter confusion and promote error and hatred of the church.

The ones I really hold responsible for this are the site owners. They set the tone and say what will be allowed. What has happened to Daryl I don't know, but this site was at one time a place where SDA's could come and discuss SDA beliefs in a friendly atmosphere. But, Daryl made the decision at some point that he was going to allow anything and everything, and it has killed his site. It is not even a faint shadow of what it used to be. But, it's indicative of what has happened to all the SDA forums. They have become the breeding ground of all kinds of satanic error to which site management turns a blind eye. I wonder what God will say on judgment day to all of this.... I wonder if He will commend for being a watchman on the walls of Zion.

So, congratulations apl, you have accomplished your goal. I'm leaving as I no longer find this place enjoyable to participate in.

I came back here after many years because there used to be a lot of conservative SDAs here who actually believed in the SOP and the Bible. Now, the vast majority of the few people left here only profess to accept the SOP and the Bible. They only agree with the Bible and SOP when the Bible and SOP agree with the poster's view points, and then they ignore anything that doesn't agree with them. Well, that is what Ellen White said would happen. It is just another fulfillment of prophecy. It is the shaking time, and those who will not surrender their points of view to the authority of God will find their way out the church. Just like Ellen White said, those who will reject the SOP will end up rejecting the Bible too. It's sad to see, but we were told it would happen, and happen it has.


Don't you just wish that everyone thought exactly like you? Then we could have great conversations! Right? If you thought exactly like I think, what is the point? May you feel good? So you can "I have the truth!" and no one else can be right? EGW write: “Agitate, agitate, agitate.” Study every point of truth, that you may know for yourselves what is truth in distinction from error. Let students search for themselves, that they may know the deep things of God. Let this work be done in the Spirit of Christ. Put no restriction upon the students. {TSS 55.2} What is the Spirit of Christ? Making railing accusations? You can't possible be wrong in your own theological views, right? As I recall, soon after you arrived (re-arrived? - I had never met your before) you made some very accusatory statements on my view of God and His character, and not just against me. That really helps the relationship.

BTW - thank you for thinking that I personally have destroyed this site. I'm sure places like Facebook have had no effect on sites like this one. I've had very good relationships with several that no longer visit this place, but are now on other platforms.

Perhaps we should listen to EGW: Not through controversy and discussion is the soul enlightened. {DA 175.2}

Kumbaya.
_________________________
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Top
#184908 - 08/12/17 09:19 PM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. [Re: dedication]
APL Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

5000+ Member
Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 5465
Loc: Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: dedication
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "evidence".
Yes, there is evidence that the Bible is true!
However, like Gary mentioned, many can't see the evidence because they don't have faith.

Faith is like a mustard seed. Just a little grain of faith implanted with just a little evidence can grow mightily, as by faith we walk and see God's hand in so many things.

On the other side --
Scientists have destroyed the faith of millions of young people. Even in our own schools, and I know this for a fact as my daughter attended an Adventist College and would phone home almost daily in consternation because the science teacher was belittling everything she had learned about science supporting creation. She finally dropped the class.
FAITH - is a gift of God.

So are you saying scientists with their evolutionary theory on origins can only destroy the faith of students upon whom God has chosen not to bestow the gift of faith?

What are you trying to say in answering my post with that sentence?



God has given every person that "grain" of faith, but what makes the difference as to whether it grows or dies, that is the question?




Roman 12:3 "think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."



Faith is a gift. It can be nurtured or squandered.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Is it your faith that saves you? Did you study the lesson this week on Galatians 3:21-25? These texts compares "The Law" with the "Promises of God".

Galatians 3:21 - is the law against the promises of God? NO WAY! For is a law had been given that could make alive, righteousness would certainly be from the law.

Galatians 3:22 - But the scripturehas locked up everythign together under sin, in order that the promises by the faith of Jesus Christ, might be given to those that believe.

Galatians 3:23 - Now before this faith came (the faith of Jesus Christ), we were continually held captive under law, being locked up together, until the approaching faith would be reveal,

Galatians 3:24 - for this reason, the law was our "boy-leader" having led us to Christ, in order that we might be justified from faith.

Galatians 3:25 - now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Contrast Law with the Promises:

Law: I'll do it, locked up, held captive, guardian

Promises - God will do it, He has done it, it is the Faith of Jesus, this faith is the Faith of Jesus, we are justified by the Faith of Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Jesus is the one. Jesus is the one to works in you BOTH to will and to do. Jesus only. Jesus is enough.

Jesus is the wonderful counselor. He is the Prince of Peace! He is the corner stone and the solid rock. He is FAITHFUL. He is a friend that is closer than a brother. He is the Advocate. He is the light. He is the deliverer. He is OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. He is the Savior. He is the Resurrection and the Life. He is the bread. He is the way the truth and the life. The first and Last. The alpha and omega. Unmoved. Unchanging. He is the creator of All. He is light, he is LORD. He is gentle, grace, holy, righteous, joy. He is comfort. King of kings. The world can understand Him. Armies can't defeat Him. Herod could not destroy Him. He will never leave you, never forsake you. He will never mislead you. When we fall, He lifts us up. When we fail, He forgives. We we are weak, He is strong. He is the way. He is the healer. When we are blind, He leads. He holds the keys to the grave. He is the Restorer, never the destroyer. He is God with us, He is enough! And HE, wants to be our friend. Amazingly, He is more eager to be friends with us, that we with Him! Faith is a give. Life is a gift.

Philippians 3:8-10 .. and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to his death;
_________________________
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Top
#184910 - 08/12/17 09:53 PM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. [Re: Gary K]
The Wanderer Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

Supporting Member 2017
Full Member
Registered: 04/03/17
Posts: 284
Loc: Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Gary K

People who think like you are the reason this site now has so few active members. When it's impossible to have an honest discussion the honest people leave, and that is what has happened here, and other SDA forums too. The forums have become nothing but Babel. They are utter confusion and promote error and hatred of the church.

The ones I really hold responsible for this are the site owners. They set the tone and say what will be allowed. What has happened to Daryl I don't know, but this site was at one time a place where SDA's could come and discuss SDA beliefs in a friendly atmosphere. But, Daryl made the decision at some point that he was going to allow anything and everything, and it has killed his site. It is not even a faint shadow of what it used to be.

This is how I prefer to read things:

Quote:
In Christlike sympathy we should come close to men individually, and seek to awaken their interest in the great things of eternal life. Their hearts may be as hard as the beaten highway, and apparently it may be a useless effort to present the Saviour to them; but while logic may fail to move, and argument be powerless to convince, the love of Christ, revealed in personal ministry, may soften the stony heart, so that the seed of truth can take root.--Christ's Object Lessons, p. 57. {ChS 117.4}

By personal labor reach those around you. Become acquainted with them. Preaching will not do the work that needs to be done. Angels of God attend you to the dwellings of those you visit. This work cannot be done by proxy. Money lent or given will not accomplish it. Sermons will not do it. By visiting the people, talking, praying, sympathizing with them, you will win hearts. This is the highest missionary work that you can do. To do it, you will need resolute, persevering faith, unwearying patience, and a deep love for souls.--Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 41. {ChS 117.5}
May The Lord add His blessing, to the reading and posting of His Word
Quote:
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. (2 Tim 2:19)
_________________________
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)

- The Wanderer
Top
#184911 - 08/12/17 09:54 PM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. [Re: APL]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "evidence".
Yes, there is evidence that the Bible is true!
However, like Gary mentioned, many can't see the evidence because they don't have faith.

Faith is like a mustard seed. Just a little grain of faith implanted with just a little evidence can grow mightily, as by faith we walk and see God's hand in so many things.

On the other side --
Scientists have destroyed the faith of millions of young people. Even in our own schools, and I know this for a fact as my daughter attended an Adventist College and would phone home almost daily in consternation because the science teacher was belittling everything she had learned about science supporting creation. She finally dropped the class.
Originally Posted By: APL
FAITH - is a gift of God.
Originally Posted By: dedication

So are you saying scientists with their evolutionary theory on origins can only destroy the faith of students upon whom God has chosen not to bestow the gift of faith?

What are you trying to say in answering my post with that sentence?

Yes, God has given every person that "grain" of faith, but what makes the difference as to whether it grows or dies, that is the question?

Roman 12:3 "think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."



Originally Posted By: APL
Faith is a gift. It can be nurtured or squandered.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



Yes, God has given everyone a measure of faith, and that can be nurtured or squandered. Thus far I agree with you.

The rest of the post would be good conversation on the LESSON thread on Galatians -- and I may take it over there to discuss further. I don't really see it as answering the issues raised here.
No, I don't believe that our faith saves. Jesus saves, but it is by faith that we take hold of that promise of salvation.

Now back to topic of rejecting the testimonies and scriptures because of the supposed scientific reasoning and supposed evidence that science puts on the table.

The text you quoted says creation holds the evidence that God is truly God! And personally I agree --
Personally, the young earth evidence makes sense and God creating a perfect world in six days is true.


Yet, have you dialogued with any "Christian" theistic evolutionists lately?
Those who say the creation week is just an allegory, and that God created through the means of evolution.
Are they "willfully ignorant", or are they deceived?
In either case they have rejected the Genesis account and EGW testimonies on the Genesis account.
They claim to be very knowledgeable in all the scientific data, and, with lengthy scientific studies, refute and overwhelm creationists who believe scripture as it reads .

Yet, their theistic evolution totally upturns both scripture and EGW's messages.

IF they were right, and they claim they are, the whole sin problem, and salvation is changed.
God would have used very sinful means to create -- death, survival of the fittest, violence, ---

Why would mankind be accounted sinful if they evolved from such a background. They would just have to "evolve" a little more, becoming more and more enlightened, till finally they become more and more like gods.


What I'm trying to say is --
Science and scientific "evidence" can be very deceiving, and totally destroy the faith needed to take hold of Christ, the author of salvation, and to believe the Biblical gospel.


Top
#184916 - 08/13/17 02:57 AM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. [Re: Mark Shipowick]
APL Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

5000+ Member
Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 5465
Loc: Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
What I'm trying to say is --
Science and scientific "evidence" can be very deceiving, and totally destroy the faith needed to take hold of Christ, the author of salvation, and to believe the Biblical gospel.
And many are willingly ignorant of the true science. But take even young earth creationists, many view the Bible as story, but not science. More and more I'm seeing the Bible as the greatest science book. The plan of salvation reaches even to the unconscious mind. The day of atonement looked for the complete removal of sin, even the unconscious ego. The books of heaven record the sins that would have been committed had there been opportunity. No, theistic evolution completely fails, and the "evidence" for it can only be believed by stretching the mind. Evolution for the creation of new information fails. Scientists believe it because they are willing blind to the only alternative. God does not use death, any death, to advance His cause. Sin kills, sin destroys, not God. But many do reject the testimonies when EGW says God destroys no man.
_________________________
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Top
#185478 - 11/11/17 05:57 AM Re: Rejection of the Testimonies Foretold. [Re: APL]
Alchemy Online   content
SDA
Active Member 2017

Most Dedicated Member
Registered: 09/27/11
Posts: 2244
Loc: Asia
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: Gary K
Originally Posted By: APL
You are not required to continue. It is up to you. But thanks for all the "chances". That's very gracious of you.


You may think you're pretty smart, but you're not. You're no brighter than all the Biblical examples who thought they were the ones who were to define truth rather than God and His word. You're of the group who believe the Bible says it but it doesn't mean it. When you can say the Angel of the Lord is the devil, well, you've wandered a long ways away from the Bible, and from honesty.

People who think like you are the reason this site now has so few active members. When it's impossible to have an honest discussion the honest people leave, and that is what has happened here, and other SDA forums too. The forums have become nothing but Babel. They are utter confusion and promote error and hatred of the church.

The ones I really hold responsible for this are the site owners. They set the tone and say what will be allowed. What has happened to Daryl I don't know, but this site was at one time a place where SDA's could come and discuss SDA beliefs in a friendly atmosphere. But, Daryl made the decision at some point that he was going to allow anything and everything, and it has killed his site. It is not even a faint shadow of what it used to be. But, it's indicative of what has happened to all the SDA forums. They have become the breeding ground of all kinds of satanic error to which site management turns a blind eye. I wonder what God will say on judgment day to all of this.... I wonder if He will commend for being a watchman on the walls of Zion.

So, congratulations apl, you have accomplished your goal. I'm leaving as I no longer find this place enjoyable to participate in.

I came back here after many years because there used to be a lot of conservative SDAs here who actually believed in the SOP and the Bible. Now, the vast majority of the few people left here only profess to accept the SOP and the Bible. They only agree with the Bible and SOP when the Bible and SOP agree with the poster's view points, and then they ignore anything that doesn't agree with them. Well, that is what Ellen White said would happen. It is just another fulfillment of prophecy. It is the shaking time, and those who will not surrender their points of view to the authority of God will find their way out the church. Just like Ellen White said, those who will reject the SOP will end up rejecting the Bible too. It's sad to see, but we were told it would happen, and happen it has.


Don't you just wish that everyone thought exactly like you? Then we could have great conversations! Right? If you thought exactly like I think, what is the point? May you feel good? So you can "I have the truth!" and no one else can be right? EGW write: “Agitate, agitate, agitate.” Study every point of truth, that you may know for yourselves what is truth in distinction from error. Let students search for themselves, that they may know the deep things of God. Let this work be done in the Spirit of Christ. Put no restriction upon the students. {TSS 55.2} What is the Spirit of Christ? Making railing accusations? You can't possible be wrong in your own theological views, right? As I recall, soon after you arrived (re-arrived? - I had never met your before) you made some very accusatory statements on my view of God and His character, and not just against me. That really helps the relationship.

BTW - thank you for thinking that I personally have destroyed this site. I'm sure places like Facebook have had no effect on sites like this one. I've had very good relationships with several that no longer visit this place, but are now on other platforms.

Perhaps we should listen to EGW: Not through controversy and discussion is the soul enlightened. {DA 175.2}

Kumbaya.


As God's people we should be like minded. We should be of the same mind. And this should show up in how we study and interpret the Bible!

There are people here who interpret the Bible to say what they want it to say. Well, that is most dangerous because it is very difficult to reach them with the Word of God. That is because they quickly twist the Bible to say what they want the it to say.

And that can completely ruin a conversation! If I don't respect my own opinion very much, then I can't respect another person's opinion much either.
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