HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US


Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums & Chat Rooms
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested $20 or Higher Donations Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading
Donations accepted: Here
Shout Box

Newest Members
Heidi K, Frmdusk2dawn, Fred88, Christian G, The Wanderer
1291 Registered Users
Forum Stats
1291 Members
118 Forums
8571 Topics
183746 Posts

Max Online: 1283 @ 05/14/17 03:59 PM
Who's OnIine In
Chat Room #1?
Right Click Here & Select "Open in New Tab or Window" to Enter Chat Room #1 or Just Simply Click Here
Join the following presently in Chat Room #1:

Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

Top Posters (30 Days)
dedication 46
APL 38
Alchemy 35
Elle 13
Mark Shipowick 13
kland 11
ProdigalOne 11
December
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Featured Member
Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 118
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
7 registered (Mark Shipowick, Alchemy, daylily, ProdigalOne, 3 invisible), 310 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
New Reply
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#185530 - 11/17/17 03:48 AM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
What does it mean -- "not under the law"

Does it mean we don't have to obey God's law?
Of course it doesn't mean that, since God's purpose is to deliver us from sin. The law defines sin, and it's sin we need to be delivered from!

So why does Paul say we are not "under the law" but under grace?


The previous chapters have strongly emphasized a point.

That point is that no matter how hard we try, or how many good deeds we do, we will never earn salvation for we are all sinners condemned to death.

We must be justified by a Being outside of ourselves.
Our justification is not dependent on us observing any law -- not even the ten commandment law.

To be saved by law means one has to keep the law perfectly, completely, not just outwardly, but also inwardly, fully in thoughts and motives. To break it just once, one ends up being condemned by the law, as law breakers. Adam just ate a little forbidden fruit, yet everything hinged on that one sin, and threw everything into the camp of sin.

We haven't just sinned once -- we have sinned millions of times. The only thing the law can do for us, is condemn us.
We must keep that reality in mind as we study Romans six.

Christ was born "of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Gal 4:4-5

Christ was born under the same moral law that condemns humanity.
But that moral law did not condemn Him -- it vindicated Him and declared Him righteous. Why? Because, He alone, of all born of woman, kept the law fully and completely.

To be "under grace" is accepting not only Christ dying for our sins, but also accepting His merits of a perfect life accredited to us. He gives us a clean record, He gives us His righteousness and then bids us to walk with Him in obedience in the paths of righteousness.

We are not "under the law" which condemns us, but that law is still the standard of righteousness in which we walk with Christ in obedience to His leading, and the prompting of His Holy Spirit.

"The sanctified heart is in harmony with the precepts of God's law; for they are holy, just, and good".

Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
#185616 - 11/24/17 09:08 PM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
Who is the man of Romans seven?


The chapter begins with these verses:

Romans 7 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he lives?
7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
7:3 So then if, while [her] husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.



These verses too often end up in debates over whether Paul is talking about moral or ceremonial laws. And what laws are abolished, and which ones we should still keep.

However, that is not what the context suggests.


To be married to the law is to look to our own works of the law to save us. It is looking to our flesh to line up with the law.

7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.


Notice Paul's own explanation here.
"we were in the flesh"
and we were doing everything the law said was sin.
"the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members"


While we were married to the law, "we were in the flesh" and ended up doing everything the law said was sin! Thus the law can only condemn us, for we are guilty.

Who was the first husband that died, in order that we might be united to the second? The sixth chapter has the answer,
Compare
Rom. 7:5 "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
And
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed,

To what were we united? What were we in? We were in union with the FLESH. In the sixth chapter we found that the body of sin is destroyed by Christ. By what means is it that the body of sin becomes destroyed? By the man being crucified with Christ.

What is being married to the law like when we are in the flesh trying to obey the law in order to be saved?

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not
.

Originally Posted By: Waggoner

God has given to us "exceeding great and precious promises;" but we can never know their fulfilment through the works of the flesh. "To Abraham and his seed were the promises made;" and only they who are the children of faith are the seed of Abraham. In the flesh, we are bound to the "old man," the carnal nature, which is not, and cannot be, subject to the law of God; and therefore we cannot in the flesh be Christ's. But we can become Christ's by being crucified with Him. We may meet Him and become united with Him at the cross. Gal. ii. 20. At the cross the "old man," the first husband, is crucified and put to death, and we can then be "married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." Rom. vii. 4. The flesh cannot be separated from sin; and therefore, in order that sin may cease, it must die. We are then delivered from the "law of sin and death," the law which bound us to sin while we were in the flesh. "For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead [the law of sin] wherein we were held [because the flesh is dead]; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." Rom. iv. 5, 6. {February 22, 1894 EJW, PTUK 119.6}

This is the wonderful change that is wrought in us at the cross. The law does not die, but the flesh dies, the law of sin and death is abolished, the enmity between us and the law dies, the bondage ceases, and we become joined to Christ in faith, and the law becomes to us "the law of the Spirit
of life in Christ Jesus." Then the works of the flesh cease, and we work the works of faith, which bring forth the fruits of the Spirit, and are heirs with Abraham of the promises made to him and to his seed. {February 22, 1894 EJW, PTUK 119.7}
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#185643 - 12/01/17 08:52 PM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
Daryl Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 23906
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
The man of Romans 7 is the man who hasn't yet been converted, or who is in the process of being converted.
_________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#185651 - 12/02/17 02:21 AM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
What I see in the verses is that the "man of Romans 7" is trying to keep the law "in the flesh".
He's trying to "earn" his way to heaven by keeping the law, but the law only condemns him.
He is convicted that the law is right, and good and holy. But try as he might, he can't live up to it.

Tomorrows lesson (chapter 8)points out the "flesh" can't do it.

But Christ has freed us from the condemnation of the law and from the power of sin.
When we invite Christ and the Holy Spirit into our lives and live by the spirit, then the deeds of the flesh can be put to death, as we are led by the Spirit.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#185673 - 12/07/17 07:45 AM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
kland Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

5000+ Member
Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 5007
Loc: Midland
Ro 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.


Ps 81:11 "But My people would not heed My voice, And Israel would have none of Me.
12 12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, To walk in their own counsels.


Ro 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

Ro 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

Ro 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Heb 3:8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness,
...
Heb 3:13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#185683 - 12/09/17 07:14 PM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
Romans 9
What is Paul's huge concern?

His people -- the literal descendants of Jacob, are trusting in their rituals and the fact they are "the chosen nation" for their salvation and they are rejecting the "true Israel" who is Christ their Savior, the One to Whom all their rituals pointed.

Without Christ they will forfeit salvation for their rituals cannot save them.

Yet, there is a remnant -- several thousand actually from Israel who have accepted the gospel and will take it to the world.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
#185684 - 12/09/17 07:37 PM Re: Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans [Re: dedication]
dedication Offline

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4329
Loc: Canada
Predestination?


9:17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”

Did God deliberately harden Pharaoh's heart against Pharaoh's will?
What God does is show HIS TRUTH in a compelling way, but when God shows TRUTH-- people react, they either accept it or they go to GREAT LENGTHS to oppose it. Thus one can say that God "did it" but it was THEIR CHOICE and THEIR REACTION.

God didn't "shut down" Pharaoh's receptive abilities to truth, Pharaoh did that himself in his stubborn resistance to the awesome revelations of God's reality.
God didn't "shut down" the minds of the Israelites who rejected Christ as their Messiah-- they shut their own minds down in opposition to compelling revelation of God through Christ.

But the truth remains, WHEN GOD'S TRUTH shines forth in power, those who resist must harden themselves and end up building massive mental walls to keep God's spirit out of their lives.

That's what Pharaoh did, BUT rather than hinder God it only made his power show forth greater.
That's what Israel as a nation did as well. The Messiah, Himself, worked among them yet they would not accept Him and they hardened their hearts against Him. But God's truth still shone forth with power.

When the light is bright, that is when the two camps separate and it can be clearly "discerned between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not."

Some may question: If God knew Pharaoh would respond to God's revealed compelling evidence by hardening his heart, why did God allow him to be Pharaoh in the first place?

Others may wonder, IF GOD knew Israel would harden their hearts against HIM, why did He chose them in the first place?
Well, God's power shone through with even greater brightness because of the stubbornness of man.



Romans 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Well some may question, why did God allow this bright light to come to Pharaoh if he was only to reject it? Because through it God showed His mercy to all who responded to Him!
In the same way we may question why does God shine forth compelling evidence if HE knows people will only reject it and harden themselves?

Yet it is by shining forth compelling evidence that God draws many to Himself, and to these He shows mercy, even though many harden themselves in the process.
Yet God knows what He is doing!

When God's truth shines forth, people respond in only one of two ways-- they harden themselves against it, or they are drawn God.



9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?

God is in control of the development of His plan. People ask; "what choice do we have then if God controls everything Why are we still called sinners?


The answer follows: Our choice is to submit to the will of God, to allow Him to fashion our lives according to His plan.

When God's truth shines forth, no person can remain neutral--
they either respond, or harden themselves against God.

Thus it makes a clear distinction between them that serve God and them that serve Him not, and no one will yet say God is unjust.



9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it “Why have you made me like this?”
9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

People are to submit to the will and righteousness of God. Some will be called to do a humble, common work for the Lord. Some will be called to do a great work for the Lord. Our duty is to submit to our Creator and not "answer" or talk back to God.

Others use the excuse to continue in sin, saying, but God made me like this it's part of who I am.
But evil propensities plague us because we have inherited a sinful body from our ancestors. God is in the business of transforming our hearts and minds. He is capable of transforming even the those most sunk into sinful lifestyles if they are only willing and calling upon Him.

Romans 12.1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
.

So people still question, Lord, if only you had made me a more "honorable" person, I would have responded. If only you had given me more money, or better position---
Why do you question God? "Whosover believeth in Me, shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16" Don't make excuses that you are less honorable, or too honorable and that caused you to harden yourself against God.


9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
9:23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,


Notice the longsuffering of God with those who HE KNOWS, before they were even born, that they would reject HIM. Yet, His longsuffering with them is astounding. Think of Judas. Christ knew he was a traitor, yet with loving longsuffering He drew Him to Himself, till Judas "went out into the night", and personal destruction." A potter does not create a vessel just so he may destroy it. He creates vessels for useful purposes. Yet many vessels end up in the garbage pile--WHY?
Because they are not plyable, the potter cannot mold them into the desired shape.

The same holds true for people, those who do not present themselves to God, who refuse to be molded by the Master Potter, cannot be kept-- they will be destroyied.

He endured with great patience--these vessels of wrath.
God doesn't throw them away right away. He tries to make something good out of them, but in the end they must be destroyed if they do not submit. Just like a potter will eventually throw out all pottery that does not meet with His standard, even though this was not the reason why he first started making them. Yes, God can still make good come out of things. Even in the vessels destined for wrath because of their own choice, God's power, mercy and justice will be seen.
Top Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
Quick Reply:
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled




Moderator:  asygo, dedication, Rick H 
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
(Not Refreshing Immediately)
A Woman Now Rides the Beast
by Mark Shipowick
Today at 05:44 PM
Wilderness Skills
by Alchemy
Today at 06:19 AM
A new Global Economic Restructure in 2012
by Elle
Yesterday at 01:45 AM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y
12/13/17 11:17 PM
Islam & Evangelicals on the Return of Jesus
by Daryl
12/11/17 01:48 PM
Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans
by dedication
12/09/17 07:37 PM
Global Warming Farce
by Alchemy
12/07/17 10:48 AM
What change took place in Hebrews 7:11-12?
by Alchemy
12/03/17 02:45 AM
Catholics Unite Against Enemies!
by ProdigalOne
12/02/17 01:43 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
FCC Eliminates Net Neutrality
by Mark Shipowick
Today at 05:51 PM
Tim Roosenberg & Daniel 11 & 12
by Alchemy
12/12/17 11:20 AM
The Godhead. I thought I believed this?
by APL
12/10/17 01:16 AM
Is the Coming of the Bridegroom in the Ten Virgins Parable actually Satan?!?
by Alchemy
11/25/17 03:57 AM
Ted Wilson's Concerns
by dedication
11/24/17 09:45 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter

Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com
WELCOME!
� 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.


"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!

Website Ranking