HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums & Chat Rooms
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested $20 or Higher Donations Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading
Donations accepted: Here
Shout Box

Newest Members
Heidi K, Frmdusk2dawn, Fred88, Christian G, The Wanderer
1291 Registered Users
Forum Stats
1291 Members
118 Forums
8574 Topics
183885 Posts

Max Online: 1283 @ 05/14/17 03:59 PM
Who's OnIine In
Chat Room #1?
Right Click Here & Select "Open in New Tab or Window" to Enter Chat Room #1 or Just Simply Click Here
Join the following presently in Chat Room #1:

Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

Top Posters (30 Days)
Elle 37
Daryl 30
APL 24
kland 16
dedication 13
His child 7
Mark Shipowick 3
January
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Featured Member
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 4284
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered (Daryl, dedication, 3 invisible), 390 Guests and 11 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 2 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#185549 - 11/18/17 12:55 AM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
dedication Online   content

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4342
Loc: Canada
The beast of Revelation 17

Three parts:

1. The scarlet colored beast full of names of blasphemy, which is, is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition. And the people will "wonder" (be amazed by) this beast when he ascends. He is the "eighth" or sum total of all the heads.

2. The seven heads on the beast which are seven mountains/seven kings. The woman sits on these.

3. Ten horns which are seven kings that receive their kingdom for one hour with the beast. They give their power to the beast but hate the woman.


Then there is also the woman -- Babylon -- a great city.
Reigning over the kings of the earth.
Fornicates with the kings of the earth.
Makes them drunk with the wine of her fornication
Sells merchandize to them and is very rich
In her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.



It's the last sentence that suggest a huge time frame.
The language suggest that the woman and the beast on which she sits as queen are world embracing symbols that cover the history of the reign of sin. Babylon is held responsible for the persecution and martyrdom of prophets, saints and all that were slain upon the earth.
This takes us back all the way to the time of Nimrod who created the beginning of Babylon with his wife. Babylon traces it's history as the counterfeit of the true plan of salvation all through history.
Top
#185558 - 11/18/17 05:10 PM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: dedication]
Mark Shipowick Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2017

4000+ Member
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 4284
Loc: Hinton WV, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
The beast of Revelation 17

Three parts:

1. The scarlet colored beast full of names of blasphemy, which is, is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition. And the people will "wonder" (be amazed by) this beast when he ascends. He is the "eighth" or sum total of all the heads.
Regarding the eighth being the sum of the seven, the language points to a succession because the seventh for example is said to only last a short space followed by the eighth being the last of the seven. The eighth is the final manifestation of the anti-christ and it may begin with a human vice regent but it will end with Lucifer in the guise of an angel of light impersonating Christ. This is why the eighth is not of the seven - it is purely demonic at the end with no human element.




Originally Posted By: dedication

3. Ten horns which are seven kings that receive their kingdom for one hour with the beast. They give their power to the beast but hate the woman.

Do you mean "Ten horns which are ten kings" rather than "seven kings"?
Originally Posted By: dedication


Then there is also the woman -- Babylon -- a great city.
Reigning over the kings of the earth.
Fornicates with the kings of the earth.
Makes them drunk with the wine of her fornication
Sells merchandize to them and is very rich
In her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

It's the last sentence that suggest a huge time frame.

The context points to an end time application of the entire picture which starts with the instruction: "Come hither, I will show thee the judgment of the great whore". Then the prophet is lead into the wilderness where he sees her judgement. It begins when the mortal wound is healed and she mounts the beast and ends with her being unseated by the 10 kings. During this period the three angel's messages are given in latter rain power because judgment hour has come, not only for the great whore but also for humanity. Multitudes will be in the valley of decision during the "hour of His judgment". Shortly after the the beast is also thrown along with the false prophet into the lake of fire. But if you look carefully it's evident that the great whore comes to her end before both the beast and the false prophet meet theirs.


Edited by Mark Shipowick (11/18/17 05:54 PM)
Edit Reason: Some clarifying comments were added.
Top
#185562 - 11/18/17 10:03 PM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
dedication Online   content

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4342
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Originally Posted By: dedication
The beast of Revelation 17

Three parts:

1. The scarlet colored beast full of names of blasphemy, which is, is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition. And the people will "wonder" (be amazed by) this beast when he ascends. He is the "eighth" or sum total of all the heads.
Regarding the eighth being the sum of the seven, the language points to a succession because the seventh for example is said to only last a short space followed by the eighth being the last of the seven. The eighth is the final manifestation of the anti-christ and it may begin with a human vice regent but it will end with Lucifer in the guise of an angel of light impersonating Christ. This is why the eighth is not of the seven - it is purely demonic at the end with no human element.

I agree that the eighth is the final manifestation of the beast -- he was hiding behind the seven heads previous, but now reveals himself for what he is.

However, the text says He is of the seven.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Originally Posted By: dedication

3. Ten horns which are seven kings that receive their kingdom for one hour with the beast. They give their power to the beast but hate the woman.

Do you mean "Ten horns which are ten kings" rather than "seven kings"?


Yes, ten "horn" kings on the beast.
These ten seem to be some "last hour" powers that receive kingship at the end, and give power to the beast.

The seven "head" kings seem to be consecutive not contemporary with each other, and largely past leading up to and acting as guide points to point us to the identity of ten kings at the end.
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
[
Originally Posted By: dedication


Then there is also the woman -- Babylon -- a great city.
Reigning over the kings of the earth.
Fornicates with the kings of the earth.
Makes them drunk with the wine of her fornication
Sells merchandize to them and is very rich
In her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

It's the last sentence that suggest a huge time frame.

The context points to an end time application of the entire picture which starts with the instruction: "Come hither, I will show thee the judgment of the great whore". Then the prophet is lead into the wilderness where he sees her judgement. It begins when the mortal wound is healed and she mounts the beast and ends with her being unseated by the 10 kings. During this period the three angel's messages are given in latter rain power because judgment hour has come, not only for the great whore but also for humanity. Multitudes will be in the valley of decision during the "hour of His judgment". Shortly after the beast is also thrown along with the false prophet into the lake of fire. But if you look carefully it's evident that the great whore comes to her end before both the beast and the false prophet meet theirs.


True, especially chapter 18 speaks of the judgment to befall Babylon in the end of time. However, I still believe it shows that Babylon has been in operation all through history. And we should look for her origin, and trace that through history to find the meaning of her last day exaltation to the top of the world, followed by her destruction.

It is also interesting that the "harlot" is destroyed while merchants are still active, and crying that their economic benefactor has been destroyed. She is destroyed before the beast is destroyed. Indeed the horns on the beast destroy her.
Top
#185563 - 11/18/17 10:18 PM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
dedication Online   content

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4342
Loc: Canada
One question that has puzzled me.

The beast of Revelation 17 comes up out of the bottomless pit.

None of the beastly critters of Rev. 12-13 come up from the bottomless pit. The Leopard like beast arises from the sea.
The two horned beast arises out of the earth.

However, if you go back to Revelation 11, you will find another beast coming up out of the bottomless pit.



Rev. 11:7 And when they (the two witnesses) shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Who is this beast, and is it connected with the Rev. 17 beast?
Top
#185575 - 11/20/17 08:24 PM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Mark Shipowick Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2017

4000+ Member
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 4284
Loc: Hinton WV, USA
Good question. I'd say that the principle of repeat and expand is at work here. The beast in Rev 11 and the first beast in Rev 13 pictures the conditions of the world when the mortal wound is healed so the number of heads and horns are the same on both beasts in Rev 13 and 17 but the beast in Rev 17 shows the final stages when Satan is released from his former restrain and allowed to transform himself into and angel of light. He's never been permitted to do this before on the global stage. His masterpiece of deception is restrained until the end when he is released from the bottomless pit and given free rein to exercise his deceptive power. It behooves us given that this is coming soon to watch and pray so we're accounted worthy to escape his delusion and stand before the son of man.

I copied some of the key passages below to help anyone who wants to study the topic.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Top
#185576 - 11/20/17 08:35 PM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Mark Shipowick Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2017

4000+ Member
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 4284
Loc: Hinton WV, USA
Quote:
Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.


Notice above that the final battle is between the Lamb and the 10 king-beast alliance. It is not between the Lamb and the great whore. Since we're clearly told who the 10 kings are we ought to take this to heart and gird up our minds to face the grim reality - Armageddon will come to its climax in the battle between the Lamb and apostate Protestantism. These are the churches that slay the two witnesses, the word of God.
Top
#185577 - 11/20/17 08:51 PM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
Mark Shipowick Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2017

4000+ Member
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 4284
Loc: Hinton WV, USA
Notice also these two parallel admonitions:

Quote:
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth . . .

Quote:
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


The Lord is wanting us to clearly understand the identity of the beast, his mark - 666, and the political and religious powers behind it. Let's claim the promise of Christ, "Whoso readeth (Daniel's prophecies) let him understand." This is the only prophecy that Christ admonished us to pay particular attention to - the prophecy of the abomination of desolation that will be released from the bottomless pit. Our Father want us to be forewarned. And more importantly, like the Boy Scouts motto says, Christ also says, "Be prepared".
Top
#185582 - 11/21/17 03:59 AM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: Mark Shipowick]
ProdigalOne Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

Senior Member
Registered: 06/06/15
Posts: 664
Loc: Alberta, Canada

Hopefully, this is on topic. I have heard both of these views expounded, what are your opinions? Is Armageddon a physical, or a spiritual battle? Does apostate Protestantism engage in physical war with the Lamb via faithful Christian surrogates, or will it be a battle of biblical doctrine and pseudo-biblical doctrine vying for the soul of humanity? Perhaps, Armageddon is a combination of both?
_________________________
"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of [my] hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Top
#185583 - 11/21/17 04:55 AM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: dedication]
ProdigalOne Offline
SDA
Active Member 2017

Senior Member
Registered: 06/06/15
Posts: 664
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Uriah Smith says the "bottomless pit" of Rev 11:7, is atheism. While there is some dispute over the accuracy His Daniel and the Revelation, Ellen White did say it "should be read by everyone" and "contained the truth that all should read." Is atheism the correct interpretation of bottomless pit?

If this is the case, could it be connected to the sabbath controversy and the rapidly spreading belief among Protestant churches that theistic (or outright Darwinian) evolution is true? Since both sabbath denial and evolution deny the power of the Creator, they could be considered forms of atheism, hence: "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit".

This interpretation appears to explain how the beast of Rev 13:1 could "rise up out of the sea"; and in Rev 17:8 "ascend out of the bottomless pit" or ábyssos: Strong’s #G12-"the abyss", may be used as ‘the deep’ sea.

Could the beast with ten horns be supported by theistic believers in its initial iteration, then be grounded on the baseless foundation of what are effectively atheistic followers during its final incarnation?

It is interesting to note that Pope Francis has come out against Benedict XVI’s apparent support for 'intelligent design, and declared that evolution and Big Bang theory are real.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...ic-9822514.html


_________________________
"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of [my] hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Top
#185584 - 11/21/17 08:55 AM Re: A Woman Now Rides the Beast [Re: ProdigalOne]
Mark Shipowick Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2017

4000+ Member
Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 4284
Loc: Hinton WV, USA
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
. . . Is atheism the correct interpretation of bottomless pit? If this is the case, could it be connected to the sabbath controversy and the rapidly spreading belief among Protestant churches that theistic (or outright Darwinian) evolution is true?


It looks to me like there is a strong connection between theistic evolution and the bottomless pit. Pope John Paul II was the first pope to teach that evolution and the Bible account of creation are not incompatible. The papacy can see that this advances its agenda to elevate human tradition to the level of scripture and in the process this buttresses its claim to possessing the authority to change times and laws. So, yes this lays the groundwork for the final deception promoted by Satan transformed into an angel of light that the law is no longer binding, the Sabbath is invalid today and in transgression of it "ye shall not surely die". Genesis 3:4.

This is the spirit of anti-Christ and of atheism because whoever denies the Son denies the Father also. This is how churches that were once faithful become anti-Christ - they deny the blood of Christ that redeemed them from the curse of the law. And so "they go out from us because they were not of us."

Quote:
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
Top
Page 2 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

Moderator:  asygo 
Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
(Not Refreshing Immediately)
A Woman Now Rides the Beast
by kland
Today at 06:48 PM
Daniel 9 and the 144,000
by kland
Yesterday at 01:07 PM
Seeking a Balanced Approach to treat cancer depending on your type of cancer and your financial mean
by kland
Yesterday at 12:27 PM
A new Global Economic Restructure in 2012
by Elle
01/11/18 06:01 PM
First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart
by dedication
01/10/18 10:42 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y
01/04/18 11:05 PM
Catholics Unite Against Enemies!
by Daryl
12/29/17 03:09 PM
What change took place in Hebrews 7:11-12?
by APL
12/23/17 01:12 AM
Islam & Evangelicals on the Return of Jesus
by Daryl
12/22/17 07:36 PM
Fourth Quarter 2017 The Book of Romans
by Daryl
12/22/17 05:49 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Godhead. I thought I believed this?
by kland
Today at 07:12 PM
Tim Roosenberg & Daniel 11 & 12
by APL
01/11/18 12:03 PM
FCC Eliminates Net Neutrality
by kland
01/03/18 06:59 PM
Religious Liberty Issues in Canada
by dedication
12/29/17 04:52 PM
Did the Ottoman Empire really fall in 1840 and is it related to the 7 trumpets?
by Daryl
12/29/17 04:04 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter

Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com
WELCOME!
� 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.


"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!

Website Ranking