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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #185923
01/26/18 07:28 PM
01/26/18 07:28 PM
Daryl  Offline

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23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
One thing for certain is that the other beast of Revelation 13 is referring to the USA, which hasn't happened yet, but is in the process of happening:

Rev. 13:11 ESV Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Daryl] #185928
01/26/18 11:59 PM
01/26/18 11:59 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Originally Posted By: Daryl
One thing for certain is that the other beast of Revelation 13 is referring to the USA, which hasn't happened yet, but is in the process of happening:

Rev. 13:11 ESV Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.


So we should begin from known knowledge to unknown with our interpretation of Revelation..

The sea beast is Papacy, who is the seven headed beast. The 8th head belongs to the seventh head: in another words, its head is a part of the seventh of the beast. The 7th and 8th heads are in alliance to persecute God's saints and they are actively preparing to seize those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.

The fifth plague is poured upon the seat of the beast and his kingdom because the beast with the seven heads blaspheme God's name from the beginning of the first head to the last head. The seven headed beast is against the seven churches. The harlot sits on the seven headed beast portray this truth (see Rev. 17).

Four times of the point of reference are given in Rev. 17 about the fifth head as one of the past, present, and future, which depicts the powers against God's church. And the one of the seven angels who have been ready to pour out the vials of the plague said, "I will show you the judgment of the harlot"

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #185966
02/04/18 03:59 AM
02/04/18 03:59 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
One of the seven angels said, "I will show you the judgment of the harlot" (Rev. 17:1), and "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman" (Rev. 17:7).

We should have understanding about the mystery of the harlot woman and the judgment of her since the angel clearly said that he is going to tell us. And her judgment is spelled out in the fifth plague: "the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain" (Rev. 16:10).

The harlot woman rides upon the beast who ascended from the bottomless pit as a messenger or an angel (Rev. 9:11). This beast is seven-headed beast who carried the harlot woman(Rev. 17:7), who set upon the beast to administer her scheme throughout the seven church periods.

The beast's past, present and future (Rev. 17:8,10,11) parallel with the seven church's past, present and future (Rev. 1:19).

In the fifth trumpet, this beast received the key of the bottomless pit (abyss) to control the earth by maneuvering the ten horns of the kingdoms of the world, which is signified by the crowns upon the ten horns (Rev. 13:1). On his heads (the seven heads), he has the name of blasphemy. I believe that the fifth trumpet has important warning about the beast: the Papacy.

Last edited by Karen Y; 02/04/18 04:04 AM.
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #186024
02/17/18 02:58 AM
02/17/18 02:58 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Woman in Rev 12 represents God's church and Dragon stood before the woman is Satan. He was ready to devour her child (Jesus) but her child caught up unto God, and to his throne (See Rev. 12:4,5).

Woman <=> Dragon
7 Churches <=> 7 heads

Dragon has => 7 heads and 10 horns: crowns on his heads
Dragon gave his power, his seat, and great authority to the beast who ascended from the bottomless pit => This beast also has 7 heads and 10 horns: names of blasphemy on his heads, and crowns on the 10 horns.

One of the seven angels said, "I will show you" about the great whore and "I will tell youth mystery of the woman (harlot)". The angel is saying that the beast with the 7 heads and 10 horns carries this harlot woman. Do you see their association? Who do you suppose this woman is that sit upon the 7 headed beast with 10 horns? Didn't the angel already told us who that is?

Have you seen this beast?: "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit" (Rev. 17:8). He has identity of existence in the past, present, and future, just as the seven churches (Rev. 1:19). The beast has the seven heads with full of names of blasphemy to oppose God's church through out the historical church periods. The whore who set on the seven headed beast will be judged because she killed God's saints (Rev. 19:2): "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24).

"here is the mind which hath wisdom", and "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast" (Rev. 17:9, 13:18). Basically, the Scriptures are saying, if you have wisdom, please know that this identity is the Papacy.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #186058
02/24/18 04:09 AM
02/24/18 04:09 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The notion that the seven last plagues would be falling only after the close of probation hinders our understanding of the seven trumpets' message. I believe signs of the seven plagues are evident all around us today, but I do not believe the close of probation arrived yet although it is very imminent future.

Do we need to know the onset of the seven plagues in a timeline? Jesus said for times and seasons are not for us to know although we may recognize the nearness of the final days approaching.

The Millerite's mentality to figure out the time of Jesus' second coming still lingers in our DNA. Jesus said it is in the Father's authority when the kingdom of God comes.

It is essential to know what are the seven last plagues look like.
1st plague=> upon the earth, upon the impenitents who receive the mark of beast.
2nd plague=> upon the sea, sea creatures die
3rd plague=> upon the springs of water, it turned to blood
4th plague=> upon the sun, it scorched men
5th plague=> upon the beast and his kingdom, became full of darkness
6th plague=> upon the three unclean spirits who are involved in ecumenism movement
7th plague=> "It is done"

Those people who receive the mark of beast are portrayed as trees and grass in the first trumpet. They would not practice biblical health message. Thus they suffer foul and loathsome sore when the first plague pours out. So its message of the first plague implies God's people must adhere to biblical principles of the foods and diet in order NOT to receive the first plague. The first trumpet indicates problem of the earth, which is the hail and fire mixed with blood. It means devastation of the humanity's health which threats our survival.
1st trumpet=> upon the earth, 1/3 trees and all grass burned up <= 1st plague

In the second plague, sea represents multitude of people and it became blood as dead men and EVERY CREATURE IN THE SEA DIED. We can also view the sea as literal ocean water and sea creatures turning deadly for the food consumption by men. The sea pollution is like unstoppable issue, which depicted as "a great mountain burning with fire" that "was thrown into the sea" as the second trumpet expressed.
2nd trumpet => upon the sea, it became blood <= 2nd plague

The third plague pours upon the springs of water (drinking water) and they became blood. The third trumpet parallels to the springs of water and many men died because of the bitter water. Heavenly angels ratify in the third plague message that water turn to blood is righteous act of God because "they shed the blood of saints and prophets" (Rev. 16:6).
3rd trumpet => upon the springs of water, it turned to bitter, men died<=3rd plague

Fourth angel pours out the plague upon the sun, which scorched men with fire. The heavenly body (sun) manifests dysfunctional pattern, which the fourth trumpet portrayed as 1/3 sun, moon, and stars turn to darkness. The fourth plague causes impenitent wicked to blaspheme God's name, in which Sabbath truth clearly demands its allegiance to the LORD.
4th trumpet => upon the heavenly bodies, dysfunctional weather pattern<=4th plague

The beast and his kingdom receive the fifth plague and darkness emerges, which depicts misery of their troubles as "gnaws their tongues" for pain (Rev. 16:10). The fifth trumpet announces that they are going to be tormented and people wish to die but death flees from them (Rev. 9:6)
5th trumpet => upon the beast (who has the key of the bottomless pit), kingdom becomes darkened, desire to die, and death will escape (spiritual torment) <= 5th plague

The three unclean spirits actively uniting the whole world into Armageddon of destruction. The sixth plague pours upon the river Euphrates as the spiritual Babylon collapses and the four angels loose their hold of the four corners of the earth because the sealing of God's people have completed. The sixth trumpet portrays the close of probation in that a voice from temple commands to loose the four angels. 200 million horsemen comes to slay 1/3 of mankind with fire, smoke and brimstone, which link to the three unclean spirits. The fire, smoke and brimstone are the plagues for the threefold entity (Rev. 9:18).

6th trumpet=>God's commands for the close of probation,
plagues pour out<=6th plague

The seventh plague portrays complete destruction when "It is done" is declared by Jesus Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. 24 Elders' hymn of praise will finally consummate: "the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord" (Rev. 11:15).
7th trumpet =>became the kingdoms of our Lord <= 7th plague

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #186110
03/04/18 04:27 AM
03/04/18 04:27 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
///

A medal should be awarded to Karen Y for blowing her trumpets this long: over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (ad finitum) again ....

... for everyone's reconsideration.

///

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: James Peterson] #186112
03/04/18 03:44 PM
03/04/18 03:44 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
I appreciate her contribution to this topic. thumbsup
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
///

A medal should be awarded to Karen Y for blowing her trumpets this long: over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (ad finitum) again ....

... for everyone's reconsideration.

///


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Daryl] #186163
03/10/18 01:38 AM
03/10/18 01:38 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Thank you, Daryl!
God be the glory!

Karen

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #186165
03/10/18 04:14 AM
03/10/18 04:14 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US

Let us contemplate how John’s vision progresses to the unfolding of the Seven trumpets. We find Seven Seals are placed on the rolled up scroll — “a book written within and on the backside” so that no one could read or look into it. However, Jesus has prevailed and is found worthy to lose the seven sealed book.

This scroll is the “title deed” for the redemption of the earth. The Seven Seals must be broken one by one so that the scroll could be unrolled (opened up) to reveal its contents.

We are told that only the Lion of the tribe of Judah who has prevailed as the Lamb of God is able to break and loose the seals. We can expect to witness the mysterious contents once the seventh seal is finally opened. It is safe to assume that the mystery of Jesus would be fully revealed at the 7th seal. In other words, the revelation of Jesus should be made perfect at the completion of the unsealing of the seven sealed book.

It also tells us when the 7th Seal was broken, the heaven anticipates for the Lord to claim His finished work of redemption. But Jesus is urging us to make Him our Intercessor to be saved.

The seventh and the final seal opened up with nothing but total silence in heaven for the space of half an hour. Is the 7th Seal holds the secret to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ? I would think so. Then why did not John see Him at the 7th Seal but he just noticed the complete silence? The silence portrays something great is about to take place. Is Bible telling us that there is something greater than the Lord Jesus Christ coming back to earth? I think beholding Christ as our Intercessor is very urgent message for us.

All heaven is under the command of Jesus, who ministers in the most holy place before the throne of God. Is He ready to finish the work of the cleansing the sanctuary? Is He ready to consummate the marriage to the bride, New Jerusalem? Is His work completely accomplished in the holiest at the seventh seal?

The next unfolding of the vision is that Jesus is ministering in the holy sanctuary of heaven as though alluring His people to search and find Him there prior to His actual appearance—second coming. Thus it is imperative that we should behold Christ by faith before His return. Because we were lack of this spiritual insight, His second coming has been delayed. The heaven is looking for His true church who would be qualified as the bride of the New Jerusalem by beholding Him by faith. What has discovered and understood at the close of the prophetic periods in 1844, people rejected the message of His coming, and they lost sight of Him. So He is yearningly revealing Himself in the introductory vision of the Seven Trumpets for us to look to Our Intercessor by faith before He comes. The matter of importance is not the time of His coming but His saints on earth to behold Him as their Savior.

The Seven Trumpets contain the message of His second coming which is depicted as a loud voice like the roaring of a lion. A mighty Angel came down from heaven holding a little book in His hand indicates that if we understand this prophecy book, we would know Jesus’ coming back is imminent. The seven thundering sound is the mystery of His second coming and John was forbidden to write it down. We should be ready and watchful always (Act 1:7), for His coming back has always been the mystery of God. 1 Cor. 15:51 “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”.

Conclusively, I say that the 7th seal opened up, and then the introductory vision of the Seven Trumpets is unfolded for us to behold Him as our Savior. By beholding Him we would be saved by His grace.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #186381
04/08/18 02:43 AM
04/08/18 02:43 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The seven trumpets message must be unfolded while Jesus is ministering in the heavenly sanctuary because when He ascended to heaven the seven angels were given the seven trumpets to blow. However, the seven angels who stood before the throne of God did not sounded the trumpets until Jesus cast down the ashes, which indicate He has completed the ministry of the intercession at that point.

How should we interpret Rev. 8:6 : "And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound"? There is no need to give the warning signs of the trumpets if there is no mediator in the heavenly sanctuary. Isn't it? Why do we suppose that they would sound the seven trumpets' message at the point of the close of probation? None sense to me!

Rev 8:6 testifies that the judgment of God is done. In other words, those seven angels with the seven trumpets are demonstrating that their action is ready to change for another task from observing the judgment of God to next command that would come from the temple. We discover the seven angels perform God's command: "a great voice out of the temple saying to THE SEVEN ANGELS (my emphasis), Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth" (Rev. 16:1).

Having said this, then who would sound the seven trumpets' message? It becomes clear to me that someone other than the seven angels must blow the trumpets message. I think not that "an angel flying through the midst of heaven" (Rev. 8:13) is the literal one of the seven angels. Just as the three angels' message of Rev. 14 is proclaimed by the people of God, the seven trumpet's message must be proclaimed by the people of God too while Jesus is ministering in the heavenly sanctuary.

The sounding of the seven trumpets is woe and it gets intensified at the sounding of the message of the last three: "saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by the reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound" (Rev. 8:13).

We must realize that the sounding of the seven trumpets is the woe to the earth dwellers, just as the woe is announced in Rev. 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

We must not assume that the sounding of the seven trumpets is sequential events because Scripture says that "by the reason of the other VOICES OF THE TRUMPETS (my emphasis) of the three angels, which are yet to sound" (Rev. 8:13).

While Jesus is interceding for His people on earth, we are to sound the seven trumpets announcement that the woes are coming if they do not repent their sins and believe in Him.

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