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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #185998
02/11/18 07:53 PM
02/11/18 07:53 PM
dedication  Offline
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Lesson 7 - Honesty With God

Luke 16:10 If you are faithful in little things, you will be faithful in large ones. But if you are dishonest in little things, you won’t be honest with greater responsibilities. NLT

Can we "fool" God?

We might fool ourselves and we tend to do so much of the time; because it arises from our "deceitful hearts".
We may even fool others, but we can never fool God.

The lesson asks "what is an honest heart?"

Is it someone who has good intentions? No, of ourselves we just have a carnal heart, which scripture says is "deceitful above all things".

There is only one way to obtain a truly honest heart and that is a heart fully given to Christ, for Him to cleanse and to ingrain His law and righteousness within it.


One of our biggest problems with "dishonesty" is that we have a deceitful heart, and are very good at deceiving ourselves, and rationalizing away truth. Until Christ gets hold of us and exposes the deceptions in our hearts and opens our eyes to His righteousness and truth and the huge contrast between our "honesty" and His honesty, we will not be completely honest.

But Christ leads us into the paths of righteousness for His name sake. He can make us like the 144,000 in whom was found no guile (deceitfulness) because they follow the Lamb everywhere He leads.



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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186001
02/11/18 11:36 PM
02/11/18 11:36 PM
Daryl  Offline
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God, though, knows just how easily we can be dishonest, especially when it comes to the things that we possess. Hence, He has given us a powerful antidote to dishonesty and selfishness, at least when it comes to material possessions.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Statistics show that many SDAs do not pay an honest tithe.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186015
02/14/18 09:55 PM
02/14/18 09:55 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl

Statistics show that many SDAs do not pay an honest tithe.

Seems like an absolute objective thing.
I wonder how one determines that?

'Please turn in a copy of your tax forms with your offerings'

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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: kland] #186017
02/15/18 10:18 PM
02/15/18 10:18 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Daryl

Statistics show that many SDAs do not pay an honest tithe.

Seems like an absolute objective thing.
I wonder how one determines that?

'Please turn in a copy of your tax forms with your offerings'

That is actually a good question!

How does one determine that???

Need to try and do some research regarding that.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186028
02/17/18 03:34 AM
02/17/18 03:34 AM
dedication  Offline
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TITHE?

Ten percent of increase?

Or ten percent of total earnings?

Most of the time we hear it is the second.
Probably because the first is harder to calculate and easier to rationalize and deceive ourselves into paying very little tithe.



For example --
A farmer sells his crop at the end of the season and receives XXXX number of dollars.
Does he pay tithe on the total amount then received, or has he kept record of the expenses it took to produce the crop -- (money spent on seed, fertilizer, hauling expenses, equipment expenses, etc. etc. and deducts that from the total amount received for the crop, then pays his tithe on the "increase"?

Then the question arises == what about the working mother. If she earns $2000 a month but has to pay 600 of that to the child care -- can she deduct that expense from her "increase" before paying tithe on the "increase"?
But then it can go further -- what about the gas to drive to work? Or what about the car itself?

So even though there seems to be a place for legitimate calculation to determine "increase", yet there is also great danger in subtracting expenses, for as soon as one starts "deducting" expenses it becomes very easy to rationalize all kinds of expenses that were really part of the "increase" and thus pay a very dishonest tithe.

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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186036
02/17/18 02:43 PM
02/17/18 02:43 PM
dedication  Offline
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On the other side --
Think of all the increase we have in our lives that is not specifically rendered in a paycheck!

Consider the produce in our fields and gardens and fruit trees. The Pharisees tithed the mint and anise and cumin -- do we tithe even our herb gardens ?


Lev. 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Deut 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field brings forth year by year.

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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186037
02/17/18 11:12 PM
02/17/18 11:12 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Our Sabbath School Class had an interesting discussion this morning regarding gross income and net income and also used the phrase tithing our increase.

We also discussed tithing on the value of a received gift. For example, how do we return tithe on a $30,000 valued gift, which would result in a $3,000 tithe on that gift. The question was, should we be tithing our garden increase, on a gift increase, etc.

This made for a most interesting discussion.

What do you think?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: dedication] #186043
02/20/18 05:12 PM
02/20/18 05:12 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication

For example --
A farmer sells his crop at the end of the season and receives XXXX number of dollars.
Does he pay tithe on the total amount then received, or has he kept record of the expenses it took to produce the crop -- (money spent on seed, fertilizer, hauling expenses, equipment expenses, etc. etc. and deducts that from the total amount received for the crop, then pays his tithe on the "increase"?

Then the question arises == what about the working mother. If she earns $2000 a month but has to pay 600 of that to the child care -- can she deduct that expense from her "increase" before paying tithe on the "increase"?
But then it can go further -- what about the gas to drive to work? Or what about the car itself?

I think you are stretching things a little bit.

From what I understood "gross" and "net" to refer to is before or after taxes.

Suppose a farmer puts $4K of fertilizer on his field and makes $2K off of selling. What do you suggest?

As far as the mother and babysitting, uhmmmm....
I think the IRS does allow some things, but as far as if running a business, only business expenses are allowed.

Too many people are accepting utility companies deceitful and devious practices. They charge extra fees, environmental fees, federal recovery fees (which aren't taxes), lighting fees, everything which should be part of their main charges, but add them extra. So now, people are of the opinion that we can subtract babysitting costs, fuel costs, insurance costs, housing costs, all from our paycheck and then say we don't need to give tithe.

Back to the farmer. Or other business owner. Suppose someone sells widgets for $100. But it costs $90 for the raw materials and labor to produce it. What does he give tithe on?

I say the increase.

Num 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord’s heave offering to Aaron the priest. Num 18:29 Out of all your gifts ye shall offer every heave offering of the Lord, of all the best thereof, even the hallowed part thereof out of it. * Num 18:30 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, When ye have heaved the best thereof from it, then it shall be counted unto the Levites as the increase of the threshingfloor, and as the increase of the winepress.


Do they give tithe on the seed they planted?

Deut 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.


What does it mean to you?

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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186044
02/20/18 05:21 PM
02/20/18 05:21 PM
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kland  Offline
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Tuesday: God’s tithing system is His chosen means for supporting the ministry, and it has been in use throughout salvation history. Supporting such laborers with tithe, then, is foundational and fundamental to God’s work.

Tithe is to be used for a particular purpose and must remain so. “The tithe is set apart for a special use. It is not to be regarded as a poor fund. It is to be especially devoted to the support of those who are bearing God’s message to the world; and it should not be diverted from this purpose.” - Ellen G. White, Counsels on Stewardship, p. 103.



https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/use-of-tithe/
4) The support of functions which are considered essential to the evangelistic outreach and nurturing ministries of the church.
a. Elementary Schools
b. Academies
c. Colleges/Universities


Agree or disagree that there's a match or mismatch?

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Re: First Quarter 2018 - Stewardship - Motives of the Heart [Re: Daryl] #186050
02/21/18 05:34 AM
02/21/18 05:34 AM
dedication  Offline
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First -- I was just putting out thoughts that other people have argued. I wasn't talking about "gross" or "net", the bible doesn't speak of that, but rather the Bible does speak of "increase".

What is "the increase" ?

I'm neither a farmer, nor do I have baby sitting expenses. Tithing is really very simple when one works as an employee at a business just five minutes away from home.

Yet it is another situation for farmers and business owners.

Your example -- if a person's income depends on his manufacturing widgets (whatever that is) and he sells them for $100, but it costs him $90 to produce them, then he can only pay tithe on the $10 increase -- because that's all the money he made.
He probably had already paid tithe on the $90, since he must of had that money on hand in order to make the widgets.
He invested the $90,
In the end he has only $100 (that's $10 increase)

I agree that it is wrong for a person to deduct LIVING expenses from their "increase", it is only that which was invested in the actual production of the "increase" that may qualify.

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