Cheri here is where Mrs. White says that drugs should not banned, (my words), just used less and less. If you go the White Estate you can search and find many more statements like this.

I erroneously stated that Mrs. White had used coffee as medicine, it was actually tea. I present this not as an excuse to use caffeine but to show that Mrs. White was not against all drugs. She says we should do the best we can, for most of us this means the judicial use of drugs for certain things. For instance my wife has a heart defect that can cause mini strokes and seizures. For her not to use drugs would be foolish and life threatening, to both her and others if she were driving. A person with severe headaches (like me) would be foolish not to take drugs to alleviate the pain if there were no natural ways of taking care of it. We have to use common sense and do the best we can with the resources we have.

Here is from the White Estate:

Seldom Needed--Use Them Less and Less.--Drug medication, as it is generally practiced, is a curse. Educate away from drugs. Use them less and less, and depend more upon hygienic agencies; then nature will respond to God's physicians--pure air, pure water, proper exercise, a clear conscience. Those who persist in the use of tea, coffee, and flesh meats will feel the need of drugs, but many might recover without one grain of medicine if they would obey the laws of health. Drugs need seldom be used. [IN HARMONY WITH THESE WORDS WAS MRS. WHITE'S COUNSEL WHEN ASKED CONCERNING THE USE OF QUININE IN THE TREATMENT OF MALARIA. HER SON, WHO TRAVELED WITH HER AND ASSISTED HER, REPORTS THE FOLLOWING:
"ONE TIME WHILE WE WERE IN AUSTRALIA, A BROTHER WHO HAD BEEN ACTING AS A MISSIONARY IN THE ISLANDS, TOLD MOTHER OF THE SICKNESS AND DEATH OF HIS FIRST-BORN SON. HE WAS SERIOUSLY AFFLICTED WITH MALARIA, AND HIS FATHER WAS ADVISED TO GIVE HIM QUININE, BUT IN VIEW OF THE COUNSEL IN THE TESTIMONIES TO AVOID THE USE OF QUININE HE REFUSED TO ADMINISTER IT, AND HIS SON DIED. WHEN HE MET SISTER WHITE, HE ASKED HER THIS QUESTION: 'WOULD I HAVE SINNED TO GIVE THE BOY QUININE WHEN I KNEW OF NO OTHER WAY TO CHECK MALARIA AND WHEN THE PROSPECT WAS THAT HE WOULD DIE WITHOUT IT?' IN REPLY SHE SAID, 'NO, WE ARE EXPECTED TO DO THE BEST WE CAN.'" --W. C. WHITE LETTER, SEPTEMBER 10, 1935.--COMPILERS.]--Counsels on Health, p. 261 (1890).

"My herb drink."--We need not go to China for our tea, or to Java for our coffee. Some have said: "Sister White uses tea, she keeps it in her house;" and that she has placed it before them to drink. They have not told the truth because I do not use it, neither do I keep it in my house. Once when crossing the waters I was sick and could retain nothing on my stomach and I did take a little weak tea as a medicine, but I don't want any of you again to make the remark
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that "Sister White uses tea." If you will come to my house I will show you the bag that contains my herb drink. I send to Michigan, across the mountains, and get the red-clover top. In regard to coffee, I never could drink it, so those who reported that Sister White drinks coffee made a mistake.-- Manuscript 3, 1888 (Sermon, Oakland, California). {2SM 301.5}

Dear Brother Redfog,

Thank you for taking the time to show how you conclude your opinion.

Yet, I do not concur with your conclusion.

Dear Sr. Winsor,

It is important to remember that hygiene plays an important role in diseases. And that modern medicines should not be thought of as a miracle when their side effects may devastate the human organs.

I viewed my Dad with disbelief in Mrs. White's testimony concerning modern medicines. He thought that they were miracles of modern men. Yet slowly through the years (about 10) his body broke down because the side effects destroyed his internal organs.

I recall my Grandmother, his Mom, attempting to show him another path with health reform. My Dad laughed it off, although an Adventist.

I watched my Dad suffer disease after disease, each coming from the side effects of the modern miracle drug from the human physican.

Perhaps it is foreign to humanity to consider that God says that He will not place diseases on His children when they are obedient. I know that the concept was foreign to me at one time and held little faith that God really meant what He said. Although I was raised as an Adventist, schooled 6 of my 12 years in Adventist schools, and baptized Adventist.

Yet, when I asked for the Holy Spirit to teach me all truth, I saw another way and it took faith to walk that way.

It was just under 5 years ago that my children and I experience poor health. We were sick literally about 8 months of the year, and we were practicing vegetarianism. But when we began to search out His guidance as recorded in the Scripture and SOP, we saw that there was a better way to care for our body temple. We changed our diets to eating vegan and our health increased.

For those of you that have learned health reform and have taken it up, I know you understand my testimony. For those that doubt, it is ok not to believe me, but pray and ask our Lord why I do believe as I do.

Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz

Cheri I totally agree with health reform and the vegan lifestyle. But what I'm saying is that when you've done all those things and are still sick then let the modern drugs work. If you step on a rusty nail it would be foolish and against God given good sense not to get a tetanus shot. If you have an infection it is better to take a antibiotic than to, in effect, commit suicide and die.

Yes by all means lets live in the light that the Creator has given us through Mrs. White. Lets eat right, walk 5 miles a day and trust in God but lets not ignore the good and modern meds that God has seen fit that we should use to prolong life and aid in making that life better. The facts are the most ardent followers of heath reform still get diseases and die. Being a vegan does not protect you from heredity diseases. Eternal life is not possible on this earth though there are those who seem to advocate it by stressing health reform.

I get headaches triggered by perfumes, yes church can be a real pain, so does it not make sense to take a drug so that I might be able to stay and get something from the sermon? Or is it Gods will that I go home and suffer? Should my wife take anti seizure meds so that she can live a normal life? Or does God tell her, no don't take them, be confined to home and possibly die? I think the answer is obvious.

No we should not take a drug for every little thing, especially when that problem can be cured by living by His principles, but neither should we cast off those drugs than can go far to helping us live a better less painful and productive life. There has to be a balance and God has given us all the ability to find that balance with study, prayer and common sense.

I have found through the years those that advocate no drugs have no answers when you start to talk about actual cases of illness. (Like headaches and seizures)

Redfog

Between vaccinations & medicines and diet & nutrition, God asks us to use our common sense: a very useful way of thinking, too. The potency of strengthened nutrition can go a long way to alleviating the dependency on medication, more likely with combating infection from cuts (I use tea tree oil, which i s safe when used neat) but only helping to reduce the need for drugs on other, chronic conditions. Optimum nutrition requires supplements, and in the right combinations to utilise each nutrient, since even whole foods are no longer adequately nutritious.

Which is better for a baby's immune system: vaccinations or its mother's breast milk? As adults we can decide how best to boost our immune system, and the best we can achieve should be nutritional support - what would overwhelm it? Also noting the toxins we routinely ingest, absorb and inject helps to highlight the source of most frequent attacks on our immune system. It's fine nutritionally to boost the immune system, but such favours to oneself are potentially totally wasted if the toxic onslaught is unhindered.

Some medicinal side-effects can't be avoided, but most ingested and absorbed toxins are under our control, and non-toxic alternatives are more available than in readily known and appreciated. Do ask for further details.

As for the MMR vaccine has just one problem, that the docu-drama, of the alleged autistic side-effects, on British TV, showed: the three individual vaccines are separately licensed, but not licensed as a combined jab. That's reckless of the licensing authorities, should it be true.

A mother's breast milk provides immunoglobulins that passively immunize her baby against infections that the mother is already immune to. It is not long after the breastfeeding is discontinued that the immunoglobulins also disppear from the baby's blood and it is back to being on its own in fighting infections. Vaccinations cause a baby's own immune system to fight off infection.

For those who support the use of vaccinations/immunizations; could they answer how the use of toxic heavy metals or formaldehyde, aborted fetal tissue etc.. have anything to do with building up our immune systems ? Mercury is a known toxic element and human exposure to it is to be avoided. Yet for years, it was in vaccinations.

So two things come to mind. Either the medical industry knew it was toxic, and continued to use it anyway, or they didn't do the required diligent research, to conclude that is was safe in the first place. In one instance you have ignornace, the other, obvious. Medical science has a history of assuming things are safe, based on present information and not on long term observation. (smoking was prescribed for different lung problems in the mid 1800's, at that time, it was the current info available. Arsenic, was also thought to be safe as a drug to cure certain things. Today, we know better. But only because of time and research)

Many drugs are approved on very little testing. Many chemicals are not even tested for human safety before being permitted for commercial use.

For any doubts of the agenda of the drug companies, I would invite them to borrow the book (from the library if available) "The truth about the drug companies" Marcia Angell M.D
She was involved with the New England Journal of Medicine for 20 years and witnessed first hand, the transition of the drug companies. She talks about how little is done presently, on research and development. Instead, they take the old drugs and alter them (sometimes simple as a molecule), and release it as a new drug (of course, marking it up more money as well)

The main excuse as to why the drugs are so high in price, the companies say it is because of research and development. (which Macia Angell stated isn't the case. They are just altering old ones and marking up the price. Their argument is false)

Food and water are the main culprits in disease. Of course, the way we eat has a lot to do with it as well. If I were totally eating nothing but raw fruits and veggies, but I still ate every two hours, I would see some sort of complication eventually. Snacking is a big no-no, and very injurous to us. It wasn't until I came across an excerpt from Ellen White that I saw how harmful it really is. For years, snacking was normal practise for me. I was never taught any other way. Most people eat when they want. Other than "spoiling your meal", nothing else was ever explained to me. It is still an issue that is swept under the rug.

My sister-in-law was told by her doctor to eat every two hours due to her being hypoglycemic. Now, isn't that in direct contradiction to what we are taught in SOP ?

So I want to ask anyone this question; where is the line drawn to follow medical advise over what we are taught in SOP ? I see it this way. If the entire medical field was in line with the Bible and SOP's writing, I would have no reason to doubt it.
When we choose to ignore the words of God and instead, follow man's way of modern medical research, we are asking for problems. We choose to overlook the simple things needed daily to prevent disease and would rather subscibe to man's wisdom of using drugs, than to believe that simple, natural remedies and healthy living work the best.

Bobby the way I look at it you can both follow Mrs. White AND make use of modern medical research and drugs. Again, she said that drugs should be used sparingly and I whole heartedly agree. I ask you to look over the examples of drug use in my family as I stated earlier and tell me where I am wrong. Let me state again, it is my experience that those who are totally against drug use many times have no answers when it comes to specific problems that people have. My wife takes drugs twice a day to prevent seizures, are you saying this is wrong? Is it wrong for her to want to live a normal productive life? Is it wrong for her to want to make the most of living with a birth heart defect?

No matter how much a person follows Mrs. White there will still be sickness and death due to birth defects, allergies etc, we do after all live in a sinful world where we have inherited the bad genes of our forbearers. Many times sickness is beyond our control. Many many times the ONLY way these sicknesses can be dealt with are with medicines, or death. Now you tell me if we have the choice between death and sickness or the use of drugs what should we chose? What would God wish us to choose? Would He not wish us to choose life and wellness?

If a child is sick but can be made whole by drugs and we do not give them those drugs is that not murder?

Yes there is much wrong with pharmaceutical companies, and many drugs are harmful, just as they were in Mrs. White's time. They might in fact put things in vaccines they should not, and yes many vaccines have caused death and sickness however overall they have done much good. (Just look at the one example posted by Windsor.) Just as cars cause much death, we do not suggest that we get rid of cars, no, we look for ways to improve them and make them safer and recognize that the good far outweighs the bad when used properly.

Redfog

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Quote: posted by Windsor

A mother's breast milk provides immunoglobulins that passively immunize her baby against infections that the mother is already immune to. It is not long after the breastfeeding is discontinued that the immunoglobulins also disppear from the baby's blood and it is back to being on its own in fighting infections. Vaccinations cause a baby's own immune system to fight off infection.

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The majority of adults are basically on their own anyway then, since many adults have never been vaccinated, or haven’t been vaccinated since childhood (vaccines do wane), or never had the disease to begin with. Of course many of these diseases aren’t a real big deal for adults (though some are) but they can still be carriers which kinda makes me wonder how herd immunity can be achieved if only kids are vaccinated. I’m not advocating immunizing adults, far from it, I’d rather vaccination be completely voluntary…like flu shots.

BTW, Windsor, can vaccines cause death?

Bobby, mercury is still in some vaccines…like flu shots, for example. In fact mercury has mostly been taken out of children’s vaccines (though traces still remain in many). Adult vaccines that had it still have it.

Jeff