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Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31648
02/11/06 09:30 PM
02/11/06 09:30 PM
J
Jeff  Offline
Supporting Member 2007
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 231
Mississippi, USA
As far as what Redfog is saying, I agree that some drugs are necessary and no matter how “evil” the pharma industry is, if there is a drug that will keep me alive with all else failing, I would take it. A live dog is better off than a dead lion. Also, we live by the law…we don’t die by it (eschatology notwithstanding).

That said, I think we should flush the pharma industry from learning institutions so that the medical establishment can be retaken with physicians who want to heal rather than just treat. Many years ago a trip to the doctor’s office often yielded some stern advice about lifestyle. Now it’s basically an exercise through the decision tree for practitioners to know which script to write.

Just 10 years ago, I went to my doctor about pain in my feet. He told me it was tendonitis and gave me a prescription for an anti-inflammatory. It was darned expensive too and it had some side effects I really didn’t like. But I had to continually take them to be able to walk. Then I read in a men’s health magazine that tendonitis in the feet is often caused by being overweight, which I was. It also gave some suggestions for stretching exercises that relieve the pain. So I quit taking the anti-inflamitory and lost weight and did the exercises. That did the trick. Within a couple of months I no longer needed to do the stretching exercises. The magazine was one of those freebies we picked up somewhere. I wish I would have read it before going to see the doctor...would have saved me plenty.

Why didn’t my doctor just tell me that I had tendonitis in my feet because I was too fat. Why was he just interested trying to make the symptoms go away? Why didn’t he tell me the cause of my problem? He also could have told me I could just do some simple (free) stretching exercises to get rid of the pain so I wouldn’t have to take expensive medication that gave me side effects.

It seems to me that family physicians have become more a front line sales force for pharma than healers. I think that is a shame. Maybe some of you physicians here don't like that I said that, but it's the perception I get from my own experiences. I realize, of course, that it doesn’t help any that most people just want to take a pill to make their symptoms go away.

Jeff

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31649
02/11/06 09:33 PM
02/11/06 09:33 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:

As far as antibiotics goes, even the medical community is concerned presently. With too much abuse of antibiotics up to the present, there is much talk that the new viruses and bugs are immune to antibiotics. They are too strong to be treated with antibiotics. So where do people turn now ?

With the antibiotics, humans have irresponcibly for most practical purposes destroyed antibacterial substances created by God.
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:

The only time I get sick is when I eat too much sugar. Sugar is a known immune system depressant. According to another article from a family friend (which I need a copy of) sugar is only 1 molecule different than cocaine. interesting... I find sugar highly addictive, and sometimes, especially when "out and about" impossible to avoid. It is interesting to see as well, that sugar originates from natural things created by God. Beets or sugar cane plant. But during the refining process, it becomes a totally different substance. Man seems to think he can improve upon God's creations. This is apparent with other things like GMO's and cloning, etc..

Sugar only 1 molecule different than cocaine? Well, the same can be said of every other molecule aswell. The protein that makes up your hair is only 1 molecule different than cocaine or suggar or why not water.
If however you meant to say that the suggar and cocaine molecules are simmilar, a simple google search clearly shows that such is not the case. Their only similarity is both being biomolecules.

/Thomas

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31650
02/11/06 10:13 PM
02/11/06 10:13 PM
B
Bobby  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 56
British Columbia
quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
Bobby the way I look at it you can both follow Mrs. White AND make use of modern medical research and drugs. Again, she said that drugs should be used sparingly and I whole heartedly agree. I ask you to look over the examples of drug use in my family as I stated earlier and tell me where I am wrong. Let me state again, it is my experience that those who are totally against drug use many times have no answers when it comes to specific problems that people have. My wife takes drugs twice a day to prevent seizures, are you saying this is wrong? Is it wrong for her to want to live a normal productive life? Is it wrong for her to want to make the most of living with a birth heart defect?

No matter how much a person follows Mrs. White there will still be sickness and death due to birth defects, allergies etc, we do after all live in a sinful world where we have inherited the bad genes of our forbearers. Many times sickness is beyond our control. Many many times the ONLY way these sicknesses can be dealt with are with medicines, or death. Now you tell me if we have the choice between death and sickness or the use of drugs what should we chose? What would God wish us to choose? Would He not wish us to choose life and wellness?

If a child is sick but can be made whole by drugs and we do not give them those drugs is that not murder?

Yes there is much wrong with pharmaceutical companies, and many drugs are harmful, just as they were in Mrs. White's time. They might in fact put things in vaccines they should not, and yes many vaccines have caused death and sickness however overall they have done much good. (Just look at the one example posted by Windsor.) Just as cars cause much death, we do not suggest that we get rid of cars, no, we look for ways to improve them and make them safer and recognize that the good far outweighs the bad when used properly.

Redfog

I would really recommend that you visit a fellow Adventist's site. 20-30 years research using God's way of healing. They have reversed many diseases, and use NO drugs. There is a way. Our son's heart problem, could have been reversed by natural means, but at the time, we were not aware and went ahead with surgery. We almost lost him. But, God prevailed, and God also knows we are making the effort in honoring Him, by following His ways. He will do the same for anyone who chooses to forsake the ways of the world and follow Him.

AS far as the seizures go, is that soley to do with the heart problem ? or could it be some other factors as well ? Heart problems, have more than one source, but rest assured, chemicals have a huge role in the whole picture. I would recommend that your wife (or anyone else for that matter) avoid any chlorine, as chlorine gas, (used in the world wars), actually harms our hearts and scars our arteries (if we ingest chlorinated water) Bleach can also be eliminated from use as a cleaner, and replaced with other things. There are more orange cleaners coming out now, and some natural alternatives as well.

Things that I know of that can cause seizures, are the artificial sweeteners. I have a 537 page compilation of personal testimonies of people who have used aspartame and sucralose, and have had nasty health problems because of them. Seizures, eye sight problems, and migraines can be traced to a variety of sources. And please note, Aspartame is still approved to be in our foods.
It is interesting that the studies conducted on animals, prior to aspartame being approved politically, showed most of the animals died within 360 days. They used rats and rhesus monkeys. Seizures were common in many of the animals. I beleived they were even grand mal seizures but I would need to re-read the study.

Actually, aspartame related problems is the number one complaint received by the FDA, yet they do not outlaw it. Why ? because the FDA is not there to protect the people, it is there to protect big business. Aspartame is one thing that never should have been approved. Also note that the FDA did not tell Merck to pull Vioxx off the market. It was Merck themselves, but the court case which recently awarded a lady $257 million due to Vioxx killing her husband, showed that Merck definitely KNEW the side effects of the Vioxx prior to putting it on the market. But they still kept silent anyway.

Right now, because I am still learning many things, I do not have all of the answers. I am focusing more on educating people to avoid a lot of the harmful things. God designed our bodies to heal themselves. That is provided we use what God has given us as well. If the drugs work for your wife, for now that is all you can do. But seek and ye shall find. God wants us to be free from anything that will hold us in slavery. Drugs, are slavery, in my opinion. Nothing else in this world holds people captive more than drugs. This holds true for either medical or street drugs.

Which brings me to another testimony. While we were down at Vancouver Children's hospital, a male nurse, who was at one time a police officer in England, told us that many street drugs are no different than the hospital ones. The only difference is that the hospital ones were "safer" as they would not be contaminated with other things. Which is true, but the end results are the same.
So why is morphine in the hospital okay and legal, but on the street, its use is illegal ? I have my opinion on that but will not comment for now.
Same as this new problem with Crystal Meth. All it is comprised of is available chemicals and cough medicines.

As far as when a child is sick, it all depends on what they are sick with. The medical establishment continues to use chemotherapy to treat cancer patients. As I found out, radiation kills human cells, or causes them to mutate and become cancerous. Neither is a good scenario. If I told you that cancer can be reversed, and has been reversed in many people using natural methods, would you scoff at that notion, and choose the medical way to treat it ? Or would you like the chance to live again ?

The Adventist guy who has a website to help others reverse disease is at
www.glaepalife.com

A quote from Ministry of healing pg 234
quote:

Disease never comes without a cause. The way is prepared, and disease is invited, by disregard of the laws of health. Many suffer in consequence of the transgression of their parents. While they are not responsible for what their parents have done, it is nevertheless their duty to ascertain what are and what are not violations of the laws of health. They should avoid the wrong habits of their parents and, by correct living, place themselves in better conditions.

The greater number, however, suffer because of their own wrong course of action. They disregard the principles of health by their habits of eating, drinking, dressing, and working. Their transgression of nature's laws produces the sure result; and when sickness comes upon them, many do not credit their suffering to the true cause, but murmur against God because of their afflictions. But God is not responsible for the suffering that follows disregard of natural law.

Based on that above quote, I would see that your wife is suffering from something her parents had endured. From my research, chemicals have a lot to do with many birth defects and genetic/DNA damage. Many people are told that this just "happens" by doctors and medical professionals alike. They either don't know, or don't want to know, the cause, as they are more interested in treating symptoms. Either way isn't responsible or helpful to the suffering.

It is also interesting to note that many people who were given a specific time to live, or diagnosed with an incurable disease, and turned to God and natural remedies for help, totally proved the medical establishment wrong. Many people seek help in other countries, as natural methods are frowned upon by mainstream medical thinking here in North America.

Another quote from Ministry of Healing pg 125
quote:

The true physician is an educator. He recognizes his responsibility, not only to the sick who are under his direct care, but also to the community in which he lives. He stands as a guardian of both physical and moral health. It is his endeavor not only to teach right methods for the treatment of the sick, but to encourage right habits of living, and to spread a knowledge of right priciples.

I cannot think of any present doctor that upholds that statement. Actually, more and more, they are becoming drug pushers for the pharmaceutical companies. They do not acknowledge the role that food and beverages play in sickness or disease. And most doctors have little knowledge of nutrition. As a doctor wrote in his book, "What your doctor doesn't know about nutritional medicine, may be killing you", (Ray D.Strand M.D)stated; less than 6% of graduating physicians receive any formal training in nutrition.

Many times, the side effects of drugs, far outweigh the potential benefits. This is where a person would need to assess if they really need drugs. Redfrog, in your wife's case, for now, she needs to be on the drugs. Seriously consider checking the website out. Clancy is the man to contact, and he can assist you in determining where to go from here.

As far as your headaches go, to have an intolerance to perfumes, is becoming more widespread among people. From my research, it indicates that your body has very little tolerance or room left to take in any more toxins. have you ever done a colon cleanse or lymphatic system cleanse ? Glaepalife has some products which will achieve that. Once you do a few cleanses, you will find you no longer need to worry about the perfume in church. While fragrance alone can be anywhere from 100 to 3000 different chemicals (all under 1 ingredient listing), once a person limits the amount of chemicals they are exposed to, your body has a chance to reverse the damage. IF we keep dumping chemicals onto ourselves, we have no chance to recuperate. Keep in mind that anything we put on our skin get s absorbed into the bloodstream eventually. Some chemicals allow others to enter more quickly. According to Samuel Epstein, many chemicals present in personal care products are the very same ones present in cigarettes. However, while there is a warning on the labels of cigarettes, there are none on cleaners, or personal care products. This is a very large, over looked source of chemicals we need to avoid using everyday.

CBC market place had a documentary a while back on the toxic chemicals present in our household cleaning products, which causes a lot of problems in many people. The big concern was how they affected children, as they are developing continually. Daycares continually use bleach etc.. to disinfect daycares, and in the meantime, people with asthma, or allergies were seeing their conditions worsen.

So, there are multiple points to consider, and not just food, that cause our sickness and diseases. We just need to be willing to seek, and God will supply the knowledge.

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31651
02/11/06 10:29 PM
02/11/06 10:29 PM
B
Bobby  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 56
British Columbia
quote:
Originally posted by västergötland:
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:

As far as antibiotics goes, even the medical community is concerned presently. With too much abuse of antibiotics up to the present, there is much talk that the new viruses and bugs are immune to antibiotics. They are too strong to be treated with antibiotics. So where do people turn now ?

With the antibiotics, humans have irresponcibly for most practical purposes destroyed antibacterial substances created by God.
quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:

The only time I get sick is when I eat too much sugar. Sugar is a known immune system depressant. According to another article from a family friend (which I need a copy of) sugar is only 1 molecule different than cocaine. interesting... I find sugar highly addictive, and sometimes, especially when "out and about" impossible to avoid. It is interesting to see as well, that sugar originates from natural things created by God. Beets or sugar cane plant. But during the refining process, it becomes a totally different substance. Man seems to think he can improve upon God's creations. This is apparent with other things like GMO's and cloning, etc..

Sugar only 1 molecule different than cocaine? Well, the same can be said of every other molecule aswell. The protein that makes up your hair is only 1 molecule different than cocaine or suggar or why not water.
If however you meant to say that the suggar and cocaine molecules are simmilar, a simple google search clearly shows that such is not the case. Their only similarity is both being biomolecules.

/Thomas

The sugar being one molecule different than cocaine was told to me by a Sunrider rep, an MLM company that sells herbal supplements. I have never found anything to support that notion, so it goes to show that I need not repeat things I haven't researched or read myself. As you have shown, you have looked it up and found it to be false regarding the molecules. But the addictive properties of sugar cannot be overlooked. I personally believe that sugar is more addictive than many drugs. And because it is a food, many people will brush that aside.

I was also told that in Japan, they use sugar as a drug. Again, I have not researched that claim, just so people know. I do know, that unlike North America, Japan's sweetener market is comprised of 41% Stevia (a herb). In North America, the artificial sweetener market and sugar markets, hold a monopoly and the FDA and government enforce their bidings. The FDA keeps clinging to the research done that says Stevia isn't safe, but if 41% of the market in Japan uses it, how is it unsafe ? and why do they continue to allow aspartame to be used when it is the number 1 complaint received at the FDA ? So we see how the FDA operates. Anything natural that can be of a benefit, would never be recognized as a "cure" for disease. By their definition, only a drug can cure. And from observation, we can clearly see that drugs do not cure. Otherwise, we would see no disease left on this earth.

Thank you Thomas for looking that up and letting us know the truth regarding the molecules.

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31652
02/11/06 10:30 PM
02/11/06 10:30 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Bobby

How do you define "chemicals"?

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31653
02/11/06 10:38 PM
02/11/06 10:38 PM
B
Bobby  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 56
British Columbia
quote:
Originally posted by Dr.Glenn:
Mrs. E.G. White says in 2SM294 that she did not take a medicine without consulting a dictionary first. How could she know what she was reading in the dictionary with only a 3rd grade education? (I think she got some extra education from the young man who stood by her side).
There is an instance in Switzerland when there was an epidemic of smallpox. She was vaccinated and recommended that here staff also be vaccinated. See 2SM303.
Not all drugs prescribed by physicians are harmful, but many are. Not all herbals prescribed by NDs are harmless. See www.naturaldatabase.com.
G.R. Waite, MD, MPH

I agree with that. Some herbs like wormwood and Senna, are harmful in large quantities, but are good for medicinal purposes when applied properly in small quantities. But prevention would null the need for even the harmful herbs.

The problem is the whole Education system with the medical field. It is largely supported by the pharmaceutical industry. Physicians are taught what big pharma wants them to learn. A family friend, just had a daughter graduate from Med school. In her entire schooling, she only took a 4 hour course in nutrition. 4 hours !!! And when she and her husband went to a medical seminar for a weekend, the whole time was spent learning what drugs to prescribe. Like that doctor says in his book, doctors are trained to attack disease, not teach people how to prevent disease.

Therein lies the problem.

Then you have the other extreme with the natural field which is dominated by spiritualists and have some other weird beliefs that have infiltrated themselves into the herbal field. I believe that Adventists should be forefront in the herbal field. God needs to be acknowledged for any true healing to take place.

The other problem that I see is with the N.D's. Many of them still choose to treat the sickness or problems, rather than to educate people on how to prevent. While they use herbs, or natural remedies, it is better than using drugs. BUT, if they are not educating people how to prevent things or change their bad habits, they too, are cashing in on merely treating the symptoms.

Let's face it. Many people would choose the herbal way, but since it isn't covered by medical, they can't afford the services. I know of relatives who do this very thing. They know the natural way is better, but cannot, or choose not to spend their money on herbal remedies. It needs to be available for everyone. It may never happen, especially with the protectionism going on by the government to protect big pharma.

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31654
02/11/06 10:55 PM
02/11/06 10:55 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
From what I read from Dr. Lorraine Day's web site, she definitely doesn't believe in vaccination shots.

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31655
02/11/06 11:32 PM
02/11/06 11:32 PM
B
Bobby  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 56
British Columbia
quote:
Originally posted by Windsor:
I think some of today's population has forgotten how devastating a lot of these diseases once were and still are among the unvaccinated. Especially the babies born to mothers with the diseases, e.g. Rubella. Do a search on congenital rubella infections. It's horrible. Unfortunately in California there are a lot of Mexicans who have not received their MMR shots and their children suffer horribly because of it. People with absolutely no medical training (most of those here) should not speak with authority on a subject that they know nothing about other than a few anecdotes.

While I have received no medical training, we have access to other books written by M.D's and of course, writings inspired from God (who ultimately has higher knowledge than you or I as He created us) That should be enough to learn the basics. Education doesn't end after ten years of medical training; it is ongoing. Did Ellen White have any medical training ? No. I see education as a learning process. We read, we listen, we then learn. We acquire knowledge that way. Many times, people I have spoken to tell of how their doctor doesn't listen to them. People know when something is wrong with them, but many doctors choose to categorize people into one group and overlook individuality.

Since you are a physician Windsor, perhaps you would care to contribute some insight as to why mercury was used for so many years, despite the fact that it is the most toxic element on the periodic table of elements. Or how formaldehyde is used in certain vaccines when it is known it is a harmful substance. Surely noone can defend that toxic substances have a role to play in building our immune systems.

A quote below from Ministry of Healing pg 126,127
quote:

A practise that is laying the foundation of a vast amount of disease and of even more serious evils is the free use of poisonous drugs. When attacked by disease, many will not take the trouble to search out the cause of their illness. Their chief anxiety is to rid themselves of pain and inconvenience. So they resort to patent nostrums, of whose real properties they know little, or they apply to a physician for some remedy to counteract the result of their misdoing, but with no thought of making a change in their unhealthful habits. If immediate benefit is not realized, another medicine is tried,a nd then another. Thus the evil continues.

People need to be taught that drugs do not cure disease. It is true that they sometimes afford present relief, and the patient appears to recover as the result of their use; this is because nature has sufficient vital force to expel the poison and to correct the conditions that caused the disease. Health is recovered in spite of the drug. But in most cases the drug only changes the form and location of the disease. Often the effect of the poison seems to be overcome for a time, but the results remain in the system and work greater harm at some later period.

By the use of poisonous drugs, many bring upon themselves lifelong illness, and many lives are lost that might be saved by the use of natural methods of healing. The poisons contained in many so-called remedies create habits and appetites that mean ruin to both soul and body. Many of the popular nostrums called patent medicines, and even some of the drugs dispensed by physicians, act a part in laying the foundation of the liquor habit, the opium habit, the morphine habit, that are so terrible in society....

....The use of natural remedies requires an amount of care and effort that many aren't willing to give. Nature's process of healing and upbuilding is gradual, and to the impatient it seems slow. The surrender of hurtful indulgences requires sacrifice. But in the end it will be found that nature, untrammeled, does her work wisely and well. Those who persevere in obedience to her laws will reap the reward of health of body and health of mind.

Too little attention is generally given to the preservation of health. It is far better to prevent disease than to know how to treat it when contracted. It is the duty of every person , for his own sake, and for the sake of humanity, to inform himself in regard to the laws of life and conscientiously to obey them. All need to become acquainted with the most wonderful of all organisms, the human body. They should understand the functions of the various organs and the dependence of one upon another for the healthy action of all. They should study the influence of the mind upon the body , and of the body upon the mind, and the laws by which they are governed.

Has anyone looked up the word "Nostrum" ? I just did. It is interesting to know that definition. I view many drugs today as nostrums.

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31656
02/11/06 11:46 PM
02/11/06 11:46 PM
B
Bobby  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 56
British Columbia
Mercury in childhood vaccines: what did the government know ?

It's a question that has divided doctors, parents and government scientists for more than a decade: Do childhood vaccines or additives cause neurological damage?

Next month, a congressional committee will hear testimony on the subject. A California university has a huge government grant to research it.

And the possible link has been the focus of a three-month News 8 Investigation.

At the center of the investigation: a preservative put into many vaccines. It's called Thimerosal, and it's made from mercury, the second most toxic metal known to man. Uranium is the most toxic. For years, Thimerosal has been extremely controversial because there were alternatives to preventing vaccine contamination. And, questions remain about how pharmaceutical companies conduct vaccine research and how the government regulates those companies.

Centuries ago, the shimmering properties of mercury captivated the philosopher Aristotle, who called it "quicksilver" - and the name stuck.

Perhaps the best visual example of what low-levels of mercury can do to the brain is seen in a videotaped experiment by scientists at the University of Calgary.

"Over the next thirty minutes, the neurite membrane underwent rapid degeneration, leaving behind the denuded neurofibrils seen here," the narration on the tape said. "In contrast, other heavy metals added to this concentration - such as aluminum, lead, cadmium and manganese - did not produce this effect."

Starting in the early nineties, government regulators dramatically increased the amount of Thimerosal exposure to babies by adding two new vaccines to the roster of mandatory immunizations children must have before enrolling in school.

The combination of the Hepatitis B vaccine and the HiB vaccine more than doubled the amount of mercury children like Jac Counter received before the age of two.

Jack's parents say today, at age five, he has been diagnosed as having "mercury-induced autism".

"If you take a ten-pound baby in, and it gets four shots on that one day, which is a common practice - that's equivalent to giving a 100-pound person forty shots in one day," said mercury expert Dr. Boyd Haley.

Haley has testified before Congress and the Pentagon as one of the nation's leading experts on Thimerosal and mercury poisoning. The research he's done at the University of Kentucky leads him to believe that some children are genetically predisposed to storing mercury in their brains.

It's the cummulative effect of the mercury which Haley and other scientists say leads to neurological disorders, including autism.

However, members of the government's vaccine committees, like Dr. Jane Siegel, insist the proof isn't there.

Under pressure from the American Academy of Pediatrics, these government committees ordered pharmaceutical companies to stop putting Thimerosal in vaccines by March 2001.

"The topic was researched, it was reviewed, (with) no data to prove a causitive role," Siegel said. "Nevertheless, a call for Thimerosal removal was made. Within two months of the publication of that statement, the Hepatitis B vaccine for infants was free of Thimerosal. Within 18 months, there was on the market all Thimerosal-free vaccine.

"I think this is an incredible achievement."

But did the government really move fast enough to protect America's children? After all, Thimerosal had been used in vaccines since the 1930s.

Documents obtained in a lawsuit show that the government began asking questions about the compound's saftey in 1972. Eli Lilly, which holds the patent on Thimerosal, assured the FDA in a report that "a series of 22 human subjects" were injected with a one-percent solution "without ill effect".

Attorney Andy Waters said what the pharmaceutical giant concealed from the government is that the tests were conducted in 1929 by a young researcher named K.C. Smithburn - on patients dying of mennigitis.

"It's apparent that Lilly didn't want to do the study themselves because it's apparent that there were enormous ethical problems with injecting people - even people dying of meningitis - with mercury," Waters said. "What Smithburn did was wrong, because he agreed to do the study for Lilly, and not only did he agree to do it, but he agreed to give them results that he knew were flawed.

"They knew, and he knew, (the results) were going to be published as the truth."

The FDA questioned Thimerosal's safety again in 1982 - this time, noting that it was "not safe for 'over-the-counter' topical use because of its potential for cell damage". Despite that evidence, however, the government regulatory committees did nothing to question its use in childhood vaccines.

Meanwhile, measures were taken to remove the compound from pet innoculations. More internal company documents and memos show that Eli Lilly began revising its claims about Thimerosal starting in the 1960s, changing package inserts from stating "non-toxic" to "non-irritating to body to issue".

Then, in November 1973, the company's legal division suggested adding the
statement: "Do not use when aluminum may come in contact with treated skin". Aluminum is a compound added to many vaccines as a catalyst. But even with this warning, the government committees did nothing.

Haley said any good biochemist knows that Thimerosal and aluminum react dangerously when combined together.

He showed News 8 the results of his experiments on human brain neurons.

"If we add this level of aluminum that we see very little toxicity with to this level of Thimerosal, we get this bottom line ... indicating that we have dramatically enhanced the toxicity, where within 24 hours essentially all of the neurons are dead," Haley said.

Officials at Eli Lilly declined to interview with News 8. However, they did send an e-mail, which said in part that the company's "primary concern is for patient safety". The e-mail also stated that "Lilly discontinued its sale or use of (Thimerosal) about ten years ago".

However, that did not stop other pharmaceutical companies from taking over the production of the vaccine preservative.

In December 1999, shortly before Eli Lilly quit producing thimerosal, the company changed its packaging insert again. This time, Lilly warned that Thimerosal was "toxic". Additionally, it stated that effects of exposure may include "fetal changes, decreased offspring survival, and lung tissue changes".

However, the government's vaccine committee continues to insist that Thimerosal has never been dangerous to American children.

So, the 1999 Eli Lilly package insert was shown to Dr. Jane Siegel for her
reaction:

"I cannot comment on this unless I have clarification," Siegel said. "You will have to interview the public. I don't know - I just know that if you show me this piece of paper I cannot make a comment on this - I find it uninterpretable."

Haley said the government should have taken action.

"There should have been an immediate recall of the vaccine," Haley said. "We would do that with an automobile if it had a bad brake system. If we just suspected it had a bad brake system, they would do that. The government has no problems - they'd do it immediately."

The congressional hearing on the use of Thimerosal in vaccines begins in June. While production of the preservative was stopped a year ago, as Dr. Haley pointed out, existing doses were not recalled.

Now, it needs to be re-stated that the easiest solution for parents who are concerned about upcoming immunizations is to simply ask your doctor in advance for Thimerosal-free vaccines.


NOTE: Chelation (pronounced "kee-lay-shun") is a controversial process that detoxifies the body of heavy metals, such as mercury. Many parents of autistic children strongly advocate the procedure. However, many physicians and the FDA question its effectiveness.

Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots #31657
02/11/06 11:50 PM
02/11/06 11:50 PM
B
Bobby  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 56
British Columbia
Mercury in childhood vaccines:
what did the government know?


By VALERI WILLIAMS / WFAA-TV DALLAS

For decades, half of all childhood vaccines contained a chemical preservative called Thimerosal.

It is made from mercury, one of the most poisonous substances on Earth.

News 8 has spent the past three months investigating claims that government regulators and some pharmaceutical companies knew of the dangers, but never told the public.

From the outset, it must be stressed that this report is not
anti-vaccination. Every person interviewed for this story believes in the importance of having children immunized. Rather, the focus is on the possible link between Thimerosal and neurological disorders.

Before the 1990s, 1 in 10,000 children were diagnosed with autism. But in the past decade, as the government has increased the number of mandatory vaccines, some recent studies suggest the rate of autism has risen to 1 in about 250 children.

Some say the cause may be mercury poisoning.

From the day that little Jac Counter was born in 1996, his proud parents
began documenting his progress with a video camera.

There was the first tooth, the first bowl of spaghetti, and the first steps.

But among all the precious images of their baby boy, there was another "first" that the Counters unknowingly recorded on video. And that, they say, was the beginning of Jac's descent into "mercury-induced autism." On one of the tapes, at 22 months, Jac verbalized playfully with his father.

Jac's parents say by the age of 4, however, he had lost all his verbal skills. Communication became a series of screams and tantrums. And there was other odd, compulsive behavior, like constant repetitive movements and licking many objects.

It was a urine test for 15 toxic metals that provided Joe and Theresa Counter with the first indication of what was wrong with their son.

The test showed that Jac's levels for arsenic, cadmium and nickel were normal or within an acceptable range. But as far as the results for mercury were concerned, the line goes off the chart.

Experts report that patients with mercury poisoning or autism share many of the same symptoms, including obsessive-compulsive behavior and loss of speech.

Jac's only possible encounter with sizable amounts of mercury, say the Counters, is through his vaccines.

"It's not that any one shot (did it)," father Joe Counter said. "The Thimerosal or the mercury in one of my son's vaccinations - well, he didn't get one shot, he got 30 shots or whatever, or however many he got. And it was the cumulative affect that, at some point, his body said, 'Stop it, I can't take this any more.' "

The Counters, who live in Plano, became the first family in the nation to file a lawsuit against pharmaceutical companies who put Thirmerosal in their vaccines.

Since last year, another 50 families with autistic children in 8 states have filed suit as well.

Medical files obtained by News 8 for at least five of the children show excessively high levels of mercury, just like Jac Counter.

So how much mercury are we talking about?

Approximately 12 out of the 18 vaccine doses the average American child receives before the age of two contain Thimerosal. Cumulatively, that's more than 200 micrograms of mercury, which would fit on the head of a pin.

According to the EPA, dropping that pin-head of mercury into 23 gallons of water would make it unsafe for human consumption. "Think about the idea of injecting your own child with levels of mercury that are thirty to forty times what's considered safe for an adult," Dallas attorney Andy Waters said. "And, I think if any human being thinks about that very long, they recognize that this is something that never should have happened."

Waters represents the Counters, as well as other families in the lawsuits. News 8 took some of his firm's research on Thimerosal to several top experts for their opinions.


Dr. Boyd Haley is the Chairman of the Chemistry Department at the University of Kentucky. He's one of the nation's leading experts on mercury poisoning and has studied Thimerosal in vaccines. Thimerosal "is one of the most toxic compounds I know of," Haley said. "I can't think of anything that I know of is more lethal."

Dr. Jane Siegel is a professor of pediatrics at UT Southwestern in Dallas. For the past five years, Siegel has sat on the government vaccine committee that decides which vaccines are mandatory for children.

"I believe there is no data thus far that's been looked at to prove that there's a connection - that there's a causitive relationship," Siegel said.

But just two years ago, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did conduct a study, which showed that three-month-old babies exposed to just 63 micrograms of mercury - less than half of the aforementioned pin top - were two-and-a-half times more likely to develop autism.

The study is stamped "Confidential" and "Do Not Copy or Release." Siegel says it was never made public because it was just a draft.

"Until they're final, and are ready for publication, they're always considered a draft, not to be widely distributed," Siegel said. "This preliminary information could be distributed, and that could do harm." So why was it marked 'Confidential, Do Not Release', rather than a simple 'Draft'?

"I think we're mincing words," Siegel said.

Subsequently, the CDC did release a report to the public, but the findings were much different. The new study was amended with different data which lowered the autism rate.

Dr. Sidney Baker has reviewed both reports. Baker has authored six medical books, and written scores of articles on childhood behavior and autism.

Baker is critical of the CDC study.

"I can't imagine that smart people could possibly have re-arranged the data the way they were done, and represented the data the way they were done, without doing it on purpose and with the express purpose, as you say, of a coverup," Baker said.

Baker treats hundreds of autistic patients each year from around the country. He suspects that about half of the children he sees have been affected by Thimerosal from their vaccines.

Baker said the CDC's refusal to release raw data from the study for outside experts to evaluate - a standard protocol in medical research - is helping to fuel the controversy.

To parents like the Counters, that is unforgiveable.

"It doesn't matter that 95% or 98%, or whatever the percentage of the kids - somehow their system is able to take in a particular metal - in this case, mercury - and flush it out," Counter said. "My kid couldn't, and it wreaked havoc on his system.

"It fried his wires."

Under pressure from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC, pharmaceutical companies agreed to stop manufacturing vaccines containing Thimerosal in March 2001. But while production may have ceased, vaccine vials already containing Thimerosal were not recalled.

A very simple solution for parents worried about upcoming shots for children is to ask your doctor ahead of time for Thimerosal-free vaccines.

Tuesday night, the News 8 investigation continues with what the government, and at least one pharmaceutical company, knew 30 years ago about Thimerosal's dangers - and didn't tell the public.

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