Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
I put some info in another thread regarding this subject, but felt it deserved its own thread.
Personally, I feel that the vaccines and flu/immunization shots are poison, which is harmful to our bodies and should be avoided. I also believe that the medical profession is ignorant to the fact that they harm as well. I will support my feeling/belief with some evidence that people can search for themselves.
None of our 4 children have had any vaccination or immunization shot. My sister, did the same with her son. My uncle, originally from Nova Scotia as well, has 4 children and told me that his first two children had all of their vaccines. His third child had 1, his youngest had none. His observations showed him that the youngest is the healthiest by far. The first two are sick whenever something goes around.
My friend, back when I first got married, told me that Ellen White wrote somewhere that vaccines were not to be taken. Althought I haven't found that exact piece of writing, maybe he was mentioning the writing where she said to avoid the doctor's poisons.
Evidence that they are bad
There are ongoing lawsuits right now against the vaccine companies, due to the years of using thimerosal (ethyl mercury) in the vaccines. Almost every one of them, (if not all) contained mercury. Now, the vaccine companies have stated that they are manufacturing thimerosal free vaccines, but they didn't destroy the ones still containing mercury. So a person has no idea if they are getting new or old vaccines.
Mercury isn't the only nasty ingredient in vaccines. Aluminum, is another. Aluminum, contributes to diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, to name a couple. Mercury, likes to inhabit the brain and spinal cord, over time. This is why more elderly people are coming down wih Alzheimer's.
Not to mention a food additive that is in almost all hot chocolate mixes, cappuchinos, mochas, and others; Aluminum silicate. Just thought I would add that in since I mentioned aluminum. Another source of aluminum for people to avoid is canned drinks, and canned foods (whether or not the cans are aluminum for the foods, or if they are still use tin, is irrelevant. It still contaminates our food)
Back to vaccines. The one ingredient that really disturbed me was the human diploid cells. Translation= human aborted fetal tissue. Yes, you read correctly. It is downright immoral for this to be allowed to happen. And on top of it all, it does nothing to immunize us from disease.
Formaldehyde is another common ingredient. It interests me intensely that the media and government will spew their incessant accusations that cigarettes are so harmful for people (which they are, I am not defending them), while in gas stations and corner stores there hang signs warning people to beware of cigarettes due to the harmful formaldehyde that is in them. Hmmm.... it is also in many vaccines/immunization shots. Do we see a contradiction here ? It is okay to use it to inject into people, but not okay in cigarettes ? Then again, info on vaccines is not made public. Therefore, people sit in the dark, and take the word of the medical authorities that they are safe.
I will digress here for a moment and mention the latest Avian bird flu pandemic that has many worried. The Tamiflu vaccine that is being promoted, is best to avoid. Even if a person believes in vaccines, take note of this;
Usually, in order to be effective against flu strains, there has to be an outbreak of that particular strain first. However, nothing has come about for this latest pandemic, but yet, the US government ordered 20 million doses of the Tamiflu, so they can sell them to Americans for $100 each. Big money, is it not ? Interesting to note that Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, has ties to the company that now owns the rights to the Tamiflu vaccine. In fact, he has shares in the company. Many other politicians also have shares in many pharmaceutical companies as well.
So in essence, the Tamiflu vaccine is useless. It goes to show that perhaps, these flus are more hype to make profit for the pharmaceutical companies than anything else. There are ways to build up immune systems without taking harmful vaccines with ingredients that are highly toxic.
Going back to mercury, the EPA (Environmental protection agency in California) has stated that there is no safe level of exposure to mercury (for humans) Therefore, meaning absolutely toxic. Something to avoid. Yet, we have it in our vaccines (well, now that the public found out about its use, they removed it) and the dental field continues to use it in silver amalgam fillings. (another topic altogether)
The attitude is wrong regarding the mercury. A panel of scientists, and officials sat down to discuss the mercury issue before the public found out regarding its use, and they decided that if warranted, they would stop using the mercury laced vaccines in North America, but rather, use them in third world countries instead ( I guess, where noone knows the difference)
If you are interested in learning more about vaccines, a physicians desk reference is a place to view the ingredients, or here is one website to look at. www.tetrahedron.org
A book I just picked up recently from the library called "The truth about the drug companies" by Marcia Angell, so far is a good book. I haven't finished it yet. Another book by the same author that I would like to read as well is called "Science on trial" I am hoping it is the book to answer my theories on if many scientists are merely "paid off" to conduct studies to the liking of whichever company is paying them. Much of my research indicates that this is the case. A person to verify this, that has first hand experience with it, is a welcome addition to my collection of books.
It boils down to this folks; there are studies out there stating mercury is safe. The dentists are using it. Half of all the mined mercury in the world goes into the dental field. Yet the EPA, stated what I posted above. There are other studies which state it is harmful (which it is) Same goes for fluoride. There are studies saying it is safe and beneficial, and others which state it isn't. No wonder people are confused.
It all comes down to the sources. Look at where things originate, and ask yourself, is it really safe ??
And this isn't even getting into the other ingredients of some vaccines which contain pig, monkey liver, monkey kidney cells, msg, gelatin (which I will add in the food additive section)
We seriously need to be on guard of what we are allowing others to put into our bodies, no matter what rank or profession they are. Education is the key. I hope this helps some out there to make a decision and look into things before going wth the flow of society.
I would very much like to see the studies that show there is a link between Aluminum and Alzheimer's. A real scientific study. Less than 3 months ago my mother died from it so I had done a bit of reading about the deisease, there has never been a study that shows the link that I'm aware of.
Vaccines I consider a gift from God. They have saved millions of lives and countless others from the misery of the likes of polio. Are there side effects? Yes. There are side effects and dangers of autos as well, but the good far outweighs the harm so we still drive.
Mrs. White never says anything about vaccines, however she does say that meds should not be used often, she never says they should be avoided at all costs. In fact she herself drank coffee as a medicine.
The factor which is seldomed considered in mortality rate is the issue of the people were learning how be sanitary. Today people are doing better because they are aware how to be clean.
Here is an example:
quote: The importance of sanitary factors in epidemic disease control was apparent in the epidemiology of smallpox epidemics in England during the 1800's. Smallpox vaccinations were voluntary in England between 1840 and 1853. In 1853 vacinnations became obigatory as the incidence of smallpox averaged 2000 cases per year. In 1871, after 31 years of vaccinations,including 18 years of obligatory vaccination, the worst epidemic ever seen in England occurred with 23,062 cases of smallpox. Faced with this situation were emphasized and smallpox regressed rapidly in areas where where necessary sanitary measures were taken. -The Case Against Vaccinations, by Clark H. Hansen, N.D.
There are many who have been scarred in their health by vaccinations. I have a friend who has epilepsy only because of vaccinations, and she is not the only one with poor health. There are a great deal more people out there who have been hurt through vaccination, if we would only take the time to find out how many are really sick now because of vaccinations.
I, myself was not aware of this great situation until a few short years ago after a doctor pointed out to me the great deal of information the public is not given to make wise choices.
Your Sister in Christ, Cheri Fritz
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31631 02/07/0612:35 AM02/07/0612:35 AM
Well, as far as vaccinations go, I have to say that I am glad that my kids are up-to-date. Because, they could well be on their way to getting some of the different diseases that are popping up all over now. Now, I have absolutely nothing against anyone from another country, but living here near Andrews University, my kids are exposed to a lot of people from a lot of different countries. Without their vaccinations, they probably would have come down with polio or whooping cough or some other "extinct" disease, because of all the people going to AU from different countries. I am happy to say that other than an occasional ear ache and upset tummy, they are VERY healthy kids. Again, I re-iterate that they have had the vaccinations and are up-to-date on them all. I think that some people just are not able to handle the vaccinations as well as others. I had them all, my husband had them all, my sisters had them all, my kids (so far) have had them all. It's really sad that some people have to grasp at straws and blame one of the very things that can save your life for making their kid sick. That's just my viewpoint and I will probably get slammed for it. I don't care. I have a right to voice my opinion.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31632 02/07/0611:31 AM02/07/0611:31 AM
Vaccines wear off in years. If an adult thinks they are safe, then think again.
It was interesting to note my friend who is an LVN was required to get the flu shot, she got the flu. Her husband, son and myself who live with or near her did not get the flu, and we did not get the shots.
The bottom line is our immune system. The healthier we are the less we will get anything.
Think about it back in the 1918 epidemic. Millions died, but more millions lived. Instead of wasting millions of dollars on study of the ones that died and the virus they should study the blood of those that did not die from the flu and find out why.
Vaccines and Immune defence arent independent of eachother. Rather the though is that having a vaccination triggers the immune system into high gear. The first vaccination came from the observation that people who had previously had the cowpox disease where more likely to survive smallpox. The idea then is that by infecting yourself with a minor disease, you will be less likely to die from a major disease. By not vaccinating yourself you wont suffer the minor disease but should you be infected with the deadly version your chances are greately diminished.
quote:Originally posted by Angie Street: Well, as far as vaccinations go, I have to say that I am glad that my kids are up-to-date. Because, they could well be on their way to getting some of the different diseases that are popping up all over now. Now, I have absolutely nothing against anyone from another country, but living here near Andrews University, my kids are exposed to a lot of people from a lot of different countries. Without their vaccinations, they probably would have come down with polio or whooping cough or some other "extinct" disease, because of all the people going to AU from different countries. I am happy to say that other than an occasional ear ache and upset tummy, they are VERY healthy kids. Again, I re-iterate that they have had the vaccinations and are up-to-date on them all. I think that some people just are not able to handle the vaccinations as well as others. I had them all, my husband had them all, my sisters had them all, my kids (so far) have had them all. It's really sad that some people have to grasp at straws and blame one of the very things that can save your life for making their kid sick. That's just my viewpoint and I will probably get slammed for it. I don't care. I have a right to voice my opinion.
Noone will slam you for voicing your opinion. I won't anyway. None of my kids have any shots, and the only thing they have had is the chicken pox. Since we have pretty much eliminated white flour, dairy and meat from our house, the kids have had a lot of minor things disappear without a trace.
Our oldest, since birth, had a respiratory problem. No wonder! We ate pretty typical food around that time. (Water was the first thing we switched on the road to change), and when our oldest was 1, we worked in my father-in-law's bakery. Guess what the poor child ate all the time ? White bread products, cookies, croissants, you name it. We tried different health store remedies to alleviate the problems, had him looked at by specialists, nothing helped. It wasn't until we stopped eating the foods that caused the problem, did we see his condition improve. To this day, his breathing at night is no longer a strain, or gasping for breath, but smoothe breathing.
Interesting to note that I had all of my vaccines, up to date till I was 15. I also had whooping cough, mumps, measles,chicken pox TWICE etc.. Not sure if I had polio, but everything else I contracted, I was supposed to be immunized for. So much for it working. I blame the foods and the way we eat for ALL disease. Drugs do not prevent or cure disease. It is quite evident just from mere observation.
More and more parents are avoiding giving their kids the vaccinations. And why wouldn't they, once they see the list of ingredients ? My sister is not even close to a Christian, and she told the doctors that they would only immunize her child over her dead body. Now that is a pretty strong stance. She did her research, and was appalled! Indeed, anyone who sees the ingredients, should realize that they are not intended for a person's benefit.
Formaldehyde, mercury, aluminum, human diploid cells. Think about that. There are ongoing lawsuits to this very day regarding mercury poisoning. It is a real fact of how it is toxic for the human body. If it doesn't get us now, it gets us in the long run. But there are things made by God, to pull it out of the body as well. And we can be thankful to Him for these wonderful creations of nature to achieve that.
Others may already know this, but it is interesting to note that the Greek word for "Pharma" is witchcraft. Pharmacy anyone ?
I am going to put you on the spot here Angie; Would you agree that the ingredients in many vaccines are actually beneficial for us ? Especially with the apparent contradictions in what the government and medical industry publicize ? And if you agree that putting heavy metals into vaccines, which like to find a home in the soft tissues of the brain and spinal cord, could you explain why ?
There have been many children that have become Autistic after receiving their immunization shots. Now, it is quite obvious that not all children develop Autism after being immunized, however, there is a link to it. I have read lots of info on it as we thought our son may have had it. I have newspaper articles, which I have saved, that talked about it. It is becoming more apparent. I personally feel it has to do with the exposure to too many chemicals as well. Too much pollution, etc..
But not to lose focus on the fact that many children have become Autistic after receiving their routine shots. Now, because we are not aware of the extent of chemical exposure, each and every child has, why take the risk ? Mercury and aluminum, affect the human brain. And the fact that Autism is on the rise, is alarming. People can be spared this if they do the research for themselves and see the evidence.
Immunizations/vaccines are not a benefit to anyone, they are a detriment to society. If all people were made aware of the coverups in the pharmaceutical industry, noone would question whether they are safe or not. They would know for sure that they aren't. We can follow God, or man. Man is the one pushing garbage on people, while God has already provided the real things for us. Everything we need, is available in nature.
A good example of coverups is the mercury in vaccines and the Vioxx case. Yes, Vioxx lawsuits are mounting as well. Another example of a drug that was put on the market, that was known to be harmful for people. It put people at risk. Some died, some were seriously injured. There are hundreds of cases waiting as well. I think if I recall correctly, the last case was awarded 257 million dollars. That was ONE case.
Ellen White talks about disease in her books. It is really quite simple. It is change, and a turning away from the sinful eating/living habits that bring the healing. If we follow God's way, we won't become sick in the first place. Look at how one man in the Bible was told to bathe in the river 7 times to get rid of leprosy. A simple thing, nothing complex. It was not only a simple thing, but a test for that man to believe and follow through, or disbelieve and continue to suffer. He did his part, and God healed him.
Just a few points. Those who are not vaccinated are protected by those that are. The few people in a population who will not get vaccinated will likely not get sick because those around them will not get sick because they are protected by vaccines and thus prevent epidemics from ever getting going.
Also to say that all sickness is caused by the foods we eat is false, it is to completely overlook hereditary and other factors.
Also to say that drugs can never heal is false. How many millions of lives have been saved by antibiotics? And Mrs. White herself chided parents who would not give life saving drugs to their children. Common sense is called for when it comes to drugs.
Because the origin of a word means witchcraft has absolutely no bearing on the word pharmacy today.
There has been zero scientific studies that show any link what-so-ever between aluminum and Alzheimer's.
Redfog
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31636 02/10/0609:57 AM02/10/0609:57 AM
I think some of today's population has forgotten how devastating a lot of these diseases once were and still are among the unvaccinated. Especially the babies born to mothers with the diseases, e.g. Rubella. Do a search on congenital rubella infections. It's horrible. Unfortunately in California there are a lot of Mexicans who have not received their MMR shots and their children suffer horribly because of it. People with absolutely no medical training (most of those here) should not speak with authority on a subject that they know nothing about other than a few anecdotes.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31638 02/11/0603:40 AM02/11/0603:40 AM
Cheri here is where Mrs. White says that drugs should not banned, (my words), just used less and less. If you go the White Estate you can search and find many more statements like this.
I erroneously stated that Mrs. White had used coffee as medicine, it was actually tea. I present this not as an excuse to use caffeine but to show that Mrs. White was not against all drugs. She says we should do the best we can, for most of us this means the judicial use of drugs for certain things. For instance my wife has a heart defect that can cause mini strokes and seizures. For her not to use drugs would be foolish and life threatening, to both her and others if she were driving. A person with severe headaches (like me) would be foolish not to take drugs to alleviate the pain if there were no natural ways of taking care of it. We have to use common sense and do the best we can with the resources we have.
Here is from the White Estate:
Seldom Needed--Use Them Less and Less.--Drug medication, as it is generally practiced, is a curse. Educate away from drugs. Use them less and less, and depend more upon hygienic agencies; then nature will respond to God's physicians--pure air, pure water, proper exercise, a clear conscience. Those who persist in the use of tea, coffee, and flesh meats will feel the need of drugs, but many might recover without one grain of medicine if they would obey the laws of health. Drugs need seldom be used. [IN HARMONY WITH THESE WORDS WAS MRS. WHITE'S COUNSEL WHEN ASKED CONCERNING THE USE OF QUININE IN THE TREATMENT OF MALARIA. HER SON, WHO TRAVELED WITH HER AND ASSISTED HER, REPORTS THE FOLLOWING: "ONE TIME WHILE WE WERE IN AUSTRALIA, A BROTHER WHO HAD BEEN ACTING AS A MISSIONARY IN THE ISLANDS, TOLD MOTHER OF THE SICKNESS AND DEATH OF HIS FIRST-BORN SON. HE WAS SERIOUSLY AFFLICTED WITH MALARIA, AND HIS FATHER WAS ADVISED TO GIVE HIM QUININE, BUT IN VIEW OF THE COUNSEL IN THE TESTIMONIES TO AVOID THE USE OF QUININE HE REFUSED TO ADMINISTER IT, AND HIS SON DIED. WHEN HE MET SISTER WHITE, HE ASKED HER THIS QUESTION: 'WOULD I HAVE SINNED TO GIVE THE BOY QUININE WHEN I KNEW OF NO OTHER WAY TO CHECK MALARIA AND WHEN THE PROSPECT WAS THAT HE WOULD DIE WITHOUT IT?' IN REPLY SHE SAID, 'NO, WE ARE EXPECTED TO DO THE BEST WE CAN.'" --W. C. WHITE LETTER, SEPTEMBER 10, 1935.--COMPILERS.]--Counsels on Health, p. 261 (1890).
"My herb drink."--We need not go to China for our tea, or to Java for our coffee. Some have said: "Sister White uses tea, she keeps it in her house;" and that she has placed it before them to drink. They have not told the truth because I do not use it, neither do I keep it in my house. Once when crossing the waters I was sick and could retain nothing on my stomach and I did take a little weak tea as a medicine, but I don't want any of you again to make the remark 302 that "Sister White uses tea." If you will come to my house I will show you the bag that contains my herb drink. I send to Michigan, across the mountains, and get the red-clover top. In regard to coffee, I never could drink it, so those who reported that Sister White drinks coffee made a mistake.-- Manuscript 3, 1888 (Sermon, Oakland, California). {2SM 301.5}
Thank you for taking the time to show how you conclude your opinion.
Yet, I do not concur with your conclusion.
Dear Sr. Winsor,
It is important to remember that hygiene plays an important role in diseases. And that modern medicines should not be thought of as a miracle when their side effects may devastate the human organs.
I viewed my Dad with disbelief in Mrs. White's testimony concerning modern medicines. He thought that they were miracles of modern men. Yet slowly through the years (about 10) his body broke down because the side effects destroyed his internal organs.
I recall my Grandmother, his Mom, attempting to show him another path with health reform. My Dad laughed it off, although an Adventist.
I watched my Dad suffer disease after disease, each coming from the side effects of the modern miracle drug from the human physican.
Perhaps it is foreign to humanity to consider that God says that He will not place diseases on His children when they are obedient. I know that the concept was foreign to me at one time and held little faith that God really meant what He said. Although I was raised as an Adventist, schooled 6 of my 12 years in Adventist schools, and baptized Adventist.
Yet, when I asked for the Holy Spirit to teach me all truth, I saw another way and it took faith to walk that way.
It was just under 5 years ago that my children and I experience poor health. We were sick literally about 8 months of the year, and we were practicing vegetarianism. But when we began to search out His guidance as recorded in the Scripture and SOP, we saw that there was a better way to care for our body temple. We changed our diets to eating vegan and our health increased.
For those of you that have learned health reform and have taken it up, I know you understand my testimony. For those that doubt, it is ok not to believe me, but pray and ask our Lord why I do believe as I do.
Cheri I totally agree with health reform and the vegan lifestyle. But what I'm saying is that when you've done all those things and are still sick then let the modern drugs work. If you step on a rusty nail it would be foolish and against God given good sense not to get a tetanus shot. If you have an infection it is better to take a antibiotic than to, in effect, commit suicide and die.
Yes by all means lets live in the light that the Creator has given us through Mrs. White. Lets eat right, walk 5 miles a day and trust in God but lets not ignore the good and modern meds that God has seen fit that we should use to prolong life and aid in making that life better. The facts are the most ardent followers of heath reform still get diseases and die. Being a vegan does not protect you from heredity diseases. Eternal life is not possible on this earth though there are those who seem to advocate it by stressing health reform.
I get headaches triggered by perfumes, yes church can be a real pain, so does it not make sense to take a drug so that I might be able to stay and get something from the sermon? Or is it Gods will that I go home and suffer? Should my wife take anti seizure meds so that she can live a normal life? Or does God tell her, no don't take them, be confined to home and possibly die? I think the answer is obvious.
No we should not take a drug for every little thing, especially when that problem can be cured by living by His principles, but neither should we cast off those drugs than can go far to helping us live a better less painful and productive life. There has to be a balance and God has given us all the ability to find that balance with study, prayer and common sense.
I have found through the years those that advocate no drugs have no answers when you start to talk about actual cases of illness. (Like headaches and seizures)
Between vaccinations & medicines and diet & nutrition, God asks us to use our common sense: a very useful way of thinking, too. The potency of strengthened nutrition can go a long way to alleviating the dependency on medication, more likely with combating infection from cuts (I use tea tree oil, which i s safe when used neat) but only helping to reduce the need for drugs on other, chronic conditions. Optimum nutrition requires supplements, and in the right combinations to utilise each nutrient, since even whole foods are no longer adequately nutritious.
Which is better for a baby's immune system: vaccinations or its mother's breast milk? As adults we can decide how best to boost our immune system, and the best we can achieve should be nutritional support - what would overwhelm it? Also noting the toxins we routinely ingest, absorb and inject helps to highlight the source of most frequent attacks on our immune system. It's fine nutritionally to boost the immune system, but such favours to oneself are potentially totally wasted if the toxic onslaught is unhindered.
Some medicinal side-effects can't be avoided, but most ingested and absorbed toxins are under our control, and non-toxic alternatives are more available than in readily known and appreciated. Do ask for further details.
As for the MMR vaccine has just one problem, that the docu-drama, of the alleged autistic side-effects, on British TV, showed: the three individual vaccines are separately licensed, but not licensed as a combined jab. That's reckless of the licensing authorities, should it be true.
A mother's breast milk provides immunoglobulins that passively immunize her baby against infections that the mother is already immune to. It is not long after the breastfeeding is discontinued that the immunoglobulins also disppear from the baby's blood and it is back to being on its own in fighting infections. Vaccinations cause a baby's own immune system to fight off infection.
For those who support the use of vaccinations/immunizations; could they answer how the use of toxic heavy metals or formaldehyde, aborted fetal tissue etc.. have anything to do with building up our immune systems ? Mercury is a known toxic element and human exposure to it is to be avoided. Yet for years, it was in vaccinations.
So two things come to mind. Either the medical industry knew it was toxic, and continued to use it anyway, or they didn't do the required diligent research, to conclude that is was safe in the first place. In one instance you have ignornace, the other, obvious. Medical science has a history of assuming things are safe, based on present information and not on long term observation. (smoking was prescribed for different lung problems in the mid 1800's, at that time, it was the current info available. Arsenic, was also thought to be safe as a drug to cure certain things. Today, we know better. But only because of time and research)
Many drugs are approved on very little testing. Many chemicals are not even tested for human safety before being permitted for commercial use.
For any doubts of the agenda of the drug companies, I would invite them to borrow the book (from the library if available) "The truth about the drug companies" Marcia Angell M.D She was involved with the New England Journal of Medicine for 20 years and witnessed first hand, the transition of the drug companies. She talks about how little is done presently, on research and development. Instead, they take the old drugs and alter them (sometimes simple as a molecule), and release it as a new drug (of course, marking it up more money as well)
The main excuse as to why the drugs are so high in price, the companies say it is because of research and development. (which Macia Angell stated isn't the case. They are just altering old ones and marking up the price. Their argument is false)
Food and water are the main culprits in disease. Of course, the way we eat has a lot to do with it as well. If I were totally eating nothing but raw fruits and veggies, but I still ate every two hours, I would see some sort of complication eventually. Snacking is a big no-no, and very injurous to us. It wasn't until I came across an excerpt from Ellen White that I saw how harmful it really is. For years, snacking was normal practise for me. I was never taught any other way. Most people eat when they want. Other than "spoiling your meal", nothing else was ever explained to me. It is still an issue that is swept under the rug.
My sister-in-law was told by her doctor to eat every two hours due to her being hypoglycemic. Now, isn't that in direct contradiction to what we are taught in SOP ?
So I want to ask anyone this question; where is the line drawn to follow medical advise over what we are taught in SOP ? I see it this way. If the entire medical field was in line with the Bible and SOP's writing, I would have no reason to doubt it. When we choose to ignore the words of God and instead, follow man's way of modern medical research, we are asking for problems. We choose to overlook the simple things needed daily to prevent disease and would rather subscibe to man's wisdom of using drugs, than to believe that simple, natural remedies and healthy living work the best.
Bobby the way I look at it you can both follow Mrs. White AND make use of modern medical research and drugs. Again, she said that drugs should be used sparingly and I whole heartedly agree. I ask you to look over the examples of drug use in my family as I stated earlier and tell me where I am wrong. Let me state again, it is my experience that those who are totally against drug use many times have no answers when it comes to specific problems that people have. My wife takes drugs twice a day to prevent seizures, are you saying this is wrong? Is it wrong for her to want to live a normal productive life? Is it wrong for her to want to make the most of living with a birth heart defect?
No matter how much a person follows Mrs. White there will still be sickness and death due to birth defects, allergies etc, we do after all live in a sinful world where we have inherited the bad genes of our forbearers. Many times sickness is beyond our control. Many many times the ONLY way these sicknesses can be dealt with are with medicines, or death. Now you tell me if we have the choice between death and sickness or the use of drugs what should we chose? What would God wish us to choose? Would He not wish us to choose life and wellness?
If a child is sick but can be made whole by drugs and we do not give them those drugs is that not murder?
Yes there is much wrong with pharmaceutical companies, and many drugs are harmful, just as they were in Mrs. White's time. They might in fact put things in vaccines they should not, and yes many vaccines have caused death and sickness however overall they have done much good. (Just look at the one example posted by Windsor.) Just as cars cause much death, we do not suggest that we get rid of cars, no, we look for ways to improve them and make them safer and recognize that the good far outweighs the bad when used properly.
quote:Originally posted by Redfog: Just a few points. Those who are not vaccinated are protected by those that are. The few people in a population who will not get vaccinated will likely not get sick because those around them will not get sick because they are protected by vaccines and thus prevent epidemics from ever getting going.
Also to say that all sickness is caused by the foods we eat is false, it is to completely overlook hereditary and other factors.
Also to say that drugs can never heal is false. How many millions of lives have been saved by antibiotics? And Mrs. White herself chided parents who would not give life saving drugs to their children. Common sense is called for when it comes to drugs.
Because the origin of a word means witchcraft has absolutely no bearing on the word pharmacy today.
There has been zero scientific studies that show any link what-so-ever between aluminum and Alzheimer's.
Redfog
Dr Blaylock in the book "Excitotoxins" talks about aluminum and Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. If you care to read a good book with a lot of info. My wife read the book and I plan to buy it soon to add to our library. I am sure he would have reference in there as to where you can find the link of aluminum. Of course, it would be scientific proof as well.
As far as your first paragraph stating that people, who are not vaccinated, being protected by the ones who are, is false. I can observe around me that ALL of the people who take the yearly flu shots are the ones who get sick. EVERY YEAR. Many, now have decided to stay away from them. Me, I don't take anything, and I never get any flus. So what does that say ? A co-worker told me recently that he would get a flu shot every year. And he would always get sick and miss work because of it. Now he avoids the flu shots, and guess what ? he no longer gets sick and misses work.
Many more people are choosing not to get vaccinations for their children. I guess this means we are all going to die right ? That is common propanganda rhetoric used by the marketing gurus in the pharmaceutical industry, which often uses fear techniques on people so they are willing to take whatever the medical field will administer; without even checking the ingredients to see if there is any harmful substances in them.
Actually, Japan used to immunize children the same way as the U.S did. They started immunizing children before the age of two. But they were having a problem with SIDS (sudden infant death syndrome) So they experimented with it. They decided to not immunize any children until AFTER two years of age. SIDS rates decreased dramatically after that change was implemented. I don't understand why we would allow a substance that affects the brain, to be injected into children, while their brains are developing and in their most vulnerable years. If anyone doubts that mercury is harmful, please note all of the present talk of fish containing mercury and people should avoid fish if containing mercury.
As far as antibiotics goes, even the medical community is concerned presently. With too much abuse of antibiotics up to the present, there is much talk that the new viruses and bugs are immune to antibiotics. They are too strong to be treated with antibiotics. So where do people turn now ?
So what is the answer ? If they aren't going to work, why take them ? Why not trust and use God's natural provisions to build our immune system ? or are we going to continue to believe in man's wisdom instead ?
The only time I get sick is when I eat too much sugar. Sugar is a known immune system depressant. According to another article from a family friend (which I need a copy of) sugar is only 1 molecule different than cocaine. interesting... I find sugar highly addictive, and sometimes, especially when "out and about" impossible to avoid. It is interesting to see as well, that sugar originates from natural things created by God. Beets or sugar cane plant. But during the refining process, it becomes a totally different substance. Man seems to think he can improve upon God's creations. This is apparent with other things like GMO's and cloning, etc..
Many other people are finding that when they avoid certain foods, beverages, chemicals etc.. they do not get sick. I have found a most interesting article on the devastating effects of caffeine on the human body. I never thought it was that bad, but I will post it when I have it copied out. Caffeine is higher in the cocoa bean than the coffee bean. But what do most of us Adventists continue to eat ? Chocolate. And yet, it is higher in caffeine content than the coffee bean. Another article I read on Mercola.com, talks about how many people are poisoned by tylenol type drugs. And that is just a basic headache or pain killer drug. Pretty bad.
As far as heriditary matters goes, have you read anything by Ron or Nancy Rocky ? (they are Adventist and host the "Binding the Wounds" seminars. They talk about the scientific studies involving the "heriditary" things. They talk about how most things we learn in life is learned by ENVIRONMENTAL means. What you are raised in, in essence, comprises the majority of who you become(character wise, not physical traits) more info can be seen from the website www.itsfixable.com or www.yourlri.com We have a few of their books and a couple of CD sets. We have attended one of their seminars and took the 22 week Binding the wounds course as well. It explains many things, and how Satan tries to affect us in our character forming years with some type of damage, so it is easier to affect and afflict us in adult life. Another piece of the health puzzle.
Not only alcohol can affect the unborn baby. Artificial sweeteners, different chemicals in our personal care products, preservatives in our foods, pesticides/herbicides in our household cleaners, or used in our gardens, on our lawns, etc.. all can have an altering and devastating effect on the unborn baby. Many different chemicals are hormone disrupters, or hormone mimickers. Others can alter or damage DNA and Genetics and can cause birth defects. This was confirmed for me when I asked the professional team down at Vancouver Children's hospital when we were down there during our 4 year old son's heart surgery.
There are presently more than 80,000 petro chemicals in use in personal care products today, many of which have been not tested for human safety. But yet, they are permitted to be used in our products.
Is that alarming to anyone ? It should be. And it is just as common in the medical field as well. Things that have not been tested for human safety, especially long term, are overlooked, and many drugs are pushed onto the market before due diligence has been done.
I personally see it as "passing the buck" to absolve themselves of any responsibility. The responsibility needs to be placed on big business and the government who covers everything up for their big business buddies. Since we have the Bible advantage, we know this is just how things are going to happen, however, that doesn't mean we take their poisons blindly.
A mother's breast milk provides immunoglobulins that passively immunize her baby against infections that the mother is already immune to. It is not long after the breastfeeding is discontinued that the immunoglobulins also disppear from the baby's blood and it is back to being on its own in fighting infections. Vaccinations cause a baby's own immune system to fight off infection.
The majority of adults are basically on their own anyway then, since many adults have never been vaccinated, or haven’t been vaccinated since childhood (vaccines do wane), or never had the disease to begin with. Of course many of these diseases aren’t a real big deal for adults (though some are) but they can still be carriers which kinda makes me wonder how herd immunity can be achieved if only kids are vaccinated. I’m not advocating immunizing adults, far from it, I’d rather vaccination be completely voluntary…like flu shots.
BTW, Windsor, can vaccines cause death?
Bobby, mercury is still in some vaccines…like flu shots, for example. In fact mercury has mostly been taken out of children’s vaccines (though traces still remain in many). Adult vaccines that had it still have it.
Mrs. E.G. White says in 2SM294 that she did not take a medicine without consulting a dictionary first. How could she know what she was reading in the dictionary with only a 3rd grade education? (I think she got some extra education from the young man who stood by her side). There is an instance in Switzerland when there was an epidemic of smallpox. She was vaccinated and recommended that here staff also be vaccinated. See 2SM303. Not all drugs prescribed by physicians are harmful, but many are. Not all herbals prescribed by NDs are harmless. See www.naturaldatabase.com. G.R. Waite, MD, MPH
As far as what Redfog is saying, I agree that some drugs are necessary and no matter how “evil” the pharma industry is, if there is a drug that will keep me alive with all else failing, I would take it. A live dog is better off than a dead lion. Also, we live by the law…we don’t die by it (eschatology notwithstanding).
That said, I think we should flush the pharma industry from learning institutions so that the medical establishment can be retaken with physicians who want to heal rather than just treat. Many years ago a trip to the doctor’s office often yielded some stern advice about lifestyle. Now it’s basically an exercise through the decision tree for practitioners to know which script to write.
Just 10 years ago, I went to my doctor about pain in my feet. He told me it was tendonitis and gave me a prescription for an anti-inflammatory. It was darned expensive too and it had some side effects I really didn’t like. But I had to continually take them to be able to walk. Then I read in a men’s health magazine that tendonitis in the feet is often caused by being overweight, which I was. It also gave some suggestions for stretching exercises that relieve the pain. So I quit taking the anti-inflamitory and lost weight and did the exercises. That did the trick. Within a couple of months I no longer needed to do the stretching exercises. The magazine was one of those freebies we picked up somewhere. I wish I would have read it before going to see the doctor...would have saved me plenty.
Why didn’t my doctor just tell me that I had tendonitis in my feet because I was too fat. Why was he just interested trying to make the symptoms go away? Why didn’t he tell me the cause of my problem? He also could have told me I could just do some simple (free) stretching exercises to get rid of the pain so I wouldn’t have to take expensive medication that gave me side effects.
It seems to me that family physicians have become more a front line sales force for pharma than healers. I think that is a shame. Maybe some of you physicians here don't like that I said that, but it's the perception I get from my own experiences. I realize, of course, that it doesn’t help any that most people just want to take a pill to make their symptoms go away.
quote:Originally posted by Bobby: As far as antibiotics goes, even the medical community is concerned presently. With too much abuse of antibiotics up to the present, there is much talk that the new viruses and bugs are immune to antibiotics. They are too strong to be treated with antibiotics. So where do people turn now ?
With the antibiotics, humans have irresponcibly for most practical purposes destroyed antibacterial substances created by God.
quote:Originally posted by Bobby: The only time I get sick is when I eat too much sugar. Sugar is a known immune system depressant. According to another article from a family friend (which I need a copy of) sugar is only 1 molecule different than cocaine. interesting... I find sugar highly addictive, and sometimes, especially when "out and about" impossible to avoid. It is interesting to see as well, that sugar originates from natural things created by God. Beets or sugar cane plant. But during the refining process, it becomes a totally different substance. Man seems to think he can improve upon God's creations. This is apparent with other things like GMO's and cloning, etc..
Sugar only 1 molecule different than cocaine? Well, the same can be said of every other molecule aswell. The protein that makes up your hair is only 1 molecule different than cocaine or suggar or why not water. If however you meant to say that the suggar and cocaine molecules are simmilar, a simple google search clearly shows that such is not the case. Their only similarity is both being biomolecules.
quote:Originally posted by Redfog: Bobby the way I look at it you can both follow Mrs. White AND make use of modern medical research and drugs. Again, she said that drugs should be used sparingly and I whole heartedly agree. I ask you to look over the examples of drug use in my family as I stated earlier and tell me where I am wrong. Let me state again, it is my experience that those who are totally against drug use many times have no answers when it comes to specific problems that people have. My wife takes drugs twice a day to prevent seizures, are you saying this is wrong? Is it wrong for her to want to live a normal productive life? Is it wrong for her to want to make the most of living with a birth heart defect?
No matter how much a person follows Mrs. White there will still be sickness and death due to birth defects, allergies etc, we do after all live in a sinful world where we have inherited the bad genes of our forbearers. Many times sickness is beyond our control. Many many times the ONLY way these sicknesses can be dealt with are with medicines, or death. Now you tell me if we have the choice between death and sickness or the use of drugs what should we chose? What would God wish us to choose? Would He not wish us to choose life and wellness?
If a child is sick but can be made whole by drugs and we do not give them those drugs is that not murder?
Yes there is much wrong with pharmaceutical companies, and many drugs are harmful, just as they were in Mrs. White's time. They might in fact put things in vaccines they should not, and yes many vaccines have caused death and sickness however overall they have done much good. (Just look at the one example posted by Windsor.) Just as cars cause much death, we do not suggest that we get rid of cars, no, we look for ways to improve them and make them safer and recognize that the good far outweighs the bad when used properly.
Redfog
I would really recommend that you visit a fellow Adventist's site. 20-30 years research using God's way of healing. They have reversed many diseases, and use NO drugs. There is a way. Our son's heart problem, could have been reversed by natural means, but at the time, we were not aware and went ahead with surgery. We almost lost him. But, God prevailed, and God also knows we are making the effort in honoring Him, by following His ways. He will do the same for anyone who chooses to forsake the ways of the world and follow Him.
AS far as the seizures go, is that soley to do with the heart problem ? or could it be some other factors as well ? Heart problems, have more than one source, but rest assured, chemicals have a huge role in the whole picture. I would recommend that your wife (or anyone else for that matter) avoid any chlorine, as chlorine gas, (used in the world wars), actually harms our hearts and scars our arteries (if we ingest chlorinated water) Bleach can also be eliminated from use as a cleaner, and replaced with other things. There are more orange cleaners coming out now, and some natural alternatives as well.
Things that I know of that can cause seizures, are the artificial sweeteners. I have a 537 page compilation of personal testimonies of people who have used aspartame and sucralose, and have had nasty health problems because of them. Seizures, eye sight problems, and migraines can be traced to a variety of sources. And please note, Aspartame is still approved to be in our foods. It is interesting that the studies conducted on animals, prior to aspartame being approved politically, showed most of the animals died within 360 days. They used rats and rhesus monkeys. Seizures were common in many of the animals. I beleived they were even grand mal seizures but I would need to re-read the study.
Actually, aspartame related problems is the number one complaint received by the FDA, yet they do not outlaw it. Why ? because the FDA is not there to protect the people, it is there to protect big business. Aspartame is one thing that never should have been approved. Also note that the FDA did not tell Merck to pull Vioxx off the market. It was Merck themselves, but the court case which recently awarded a lady $257 million due to Vioxx killing her husband, showed that Merck definitely KNEW the side effects of the Vioxx prior to putting it on the market. But they still kept silent anyway.
Right now, because I am still learning many things, I do not have all of the answers. I am focusing more on educating people to avoid a lot of the harmful things. God designed our bodies to heal themselves. That is provided we use what God has given us as well. If the drugs work for your wife, for now that is all you can do. But seek and ye shall find. God wants us to be free from anything that will hold us in slavery. Drugs, are slavery, in my opinion. Nothing else in this world holds people captive more than drugs. This holds true for either medical or street drugs.
Which brings me to another testimony. While we were down at Vancouver Children's hospital, a male nurse, who was at one time a police officer in England, told us that many street drugs are no different than the hospital ones. The only difference is that the hospital ones were "safer" as they would not be contaminated with other things. Which is true, but the end results are the same. So why is morphine in the hospital okay and legal, but on the street, its use is illegal ? I have my opinion on that but will not comment for now. Same as this new problem with Crystal Meth. All it is comprised of is available chemicals and cough medicines.
As far as when a child is sick, it all depends on what they are sick with. The medical establishment continues to use chemotherapy to treat cancer patients. As I found out, radiation kills human cells, or causes them to mutate and become cancerous. Neither is a good scenario. If I told you that cancer can be reversed, and has been reversed in many people using natural methods, would you scoff at that notion, and choose the medical way to treat it ? Or would you like the chance to live again ?
The Adventist guy who has a website to help others reverse disease is at www.glaepalife.com
A quote from Ministry of healing pg 234
quote: Disease never comes without a cause. The way is prepared, and disease is invited, by disregard of the laws of health. Many suffer in consequence of the transgression of their parents. While they are not responsible for what their parents have done, it is nevertheless their duty to ascertain what are and what are not violations of the laws of health. They should avoid the wrong habits of their parents and, by correct living, place themselves in better conditions.
The greater number, however, suffer because of their own wrong course of action. They disregard the principles of health by their habits of eating, drinking, dressing, and working. Their transgression of nature's laws produces the sure result; and when sickness comes upon them, many do not credit their suffering to the true cause, but murmur against God because of their afflictions. But God is not responsible for the suffering that follows disregard of natural law.
Based on that above quote, I would see that your wife is suffering from something her parents had endured. From my research, chemicals have a lot to do with many birth defects and genetic/DNA damage. Many people are told that this just "happens" by doctors and medical professionals alike. They either don't know, or don't want to know, the cause, as they are more interested in treating symptoms. Either way isn't responsible or helpful to the suffering.
It is also interesting to note that many people who were given a specific time to live, or diagnosed with an incurable disease, and turned to God and natural remedies for help, totally proved the medical establishment wrong. Many people seek help in other countries, as natural methods are frowned upon by mainstream medical thinking here in North America.
Another quote from Ministry of Healing pg 125
quote: The true physician is an educator. He recognizes his responsibility, not only to the sick who are under his direct care, but also to the community in which he lives. He stands as a guardian of both physical and moral health. It is his endeavor not only to teach right methods for the treatment of the sick, but to encourage right habits of living, and to spread a knowledge of right priciples.
I cannot think of any present doctor that upholds that statement. Actually, more and more, they are becoming drug pushers for the pharmaceutical companies. They do not acknowledge the role that food and beverages play in sickness or disease. And most doctors have little knowledge of nutrition. As a doctor wrote in his book, "What your doctor doesn't know about nutritional medicine, may be killing you", (Ray D.Strand M.D)stated; less than 6% of graduating physicians receive any formal training in nutrition.
Many times, the side effects of drugs, far outweigh the potential benefits. This is where a person would need to assess if they really need drugs. Redfrog, in your wife's case, for now, she needs to be on the drugs. Seriously consider checking the website out. Clancy is the man to contact, and he can assist you in determining where to go from here.
As far as your headaches go, to have an intolerance to perfumes, is becoming more widespread among people. From my research, it indicates that your body has very little tolerance or room left to take in any more toxins. have you ever done a colon cleanse or lymphatic system cleanse ? Glaepalife has some products which will achieve that. Once you do a few cleanses, you will find you no longer need to worry about the perfume in church. While fragrance alone can be anywhere from 100 to 3000 different chemicals (all under 1 ingredient listing), once a person limits the amount of chemicals they are exposed to, your body has a chance to reverse the damage. IF we keep dumping chemicals onto ourselves, we have no chance to recuperate. Keep in mind that anything we put on our skin get s absorbed into the bloodstream eventually. Some chemicals allow others to enter more quickly. According to Samuel Epstein, many chemicals present in personal care products are the very same ones present in cigarettes. However, while there is a warning on the labels of cigarettes, there are none on cleaners, or personal care products. This is a very large, over looked source of chemicals we need to avoid using everyday.
CBC market place had a documentary a while back on the toxic chemicals present in our household cleaning products, which causes a lot of problems in many people. The big concern was how they affected children, as they are developing continually. Daycares continually use bleach etc.. to disinfect daycares, and in the meantime, people with asthma, or allergies were seeing their conditions worsen.
So, there are multiple points to consider, and not just food, that cause our sickness and diseases. We just need to be willing to seek, and God will supply the knowledge.
quote:Originally posted by Bobby: As far as antibiotics goes, even the medical community is concerned presently. With too much abuse of antibiotics up to the present, there is much talk that the new viruses and bugs are immune to antibiotics. They are too strong to be treated with antibiotics. So where do people turn now ?
With the antibiotics, humans have irresponcibly for most practical purposes destroyed antibacterial substances created by God.
quote:Originally posted by Bobby: The only time I get sick is when I eat too much sugar. Sugar is a known immune system depressant. According to another article from a family friend (which I need a copy of) sugar is only 1 molecule different than cocaine. interesting... I find sugar highly addictive, and sometimes, especially when "out and about" impossible to avoid. It is interesting to see as well, that sugar originates from natural things created by God. Beets or sugar cane plant. But during the refining process, it becomes a totally different substance. Man seems to think he can improve upon God's creations. This is apparent with other things like GMO's and cloning, etc..
Sugar only 1 molecule different than cocaine? Well, the same can be said of every other molecule aswell. The protein that makes up your hair is only 1 molecule different than cocaine or suggar or why not water. If however you meant to say that the suggar and cocaine molecules are simmilar, a simple google search clearly shows that such is not the case. Their only similarity is both being biomolecules.
/Thomas
The sugar being one molecule different than cocaine was told to me by a Sunrider rep, an MLM company that sells herbal supplements. I have never found anything to support that notion, so it goes to show that I need not repeat things I haven't researched or read myself. As you have shown, you have looked it up and found it to be false regarding the molecules. But the addictive properties of sugar cannot be overlooked. I personally believe that sugar is more addictive than many drugs. And because it is a food, many people will brush that aside.
I was also told that in Japan, they use sugar as a drug. Again, I have not researched that claim, just so people know. I do know, that unlike North America, Japan's sweetener market is comprised of 41% Stevia (a herb). In North America, the artificial sweetener market and sugar markets, hold a monopoly and the FDA and government enforce their bidings. The FDA keeps clinging to the research done that says Stevia isn't safe, but if 41% of the market in Japan uses it, how is it unsafe ? and why do they continue to allow aspartame to be used when it is the number 1 complaint received at the FDA ? So we see how the FDA operates. Anything natural that can be of a benefit, would never be recognized as a "cure" for disease. By their definition, only a drug can cure. And from observation, we can clearly see that drugs do not cure. Otherwise, we would see no disease left on this earth.
Thank you Thomas for looking that up and letting us know the truth regarding the molecules.
quote:Originally posted by Dr.Glenn: Mrs. E.G. White says in 2SM294 that she did not take a medicine without consulting a dictionary first. How could she know what she was reading in the dictionary with only a 3rd grade education? (I think she got some extra education from the young man who stood by her side). There is an instance in Switzerland when there was an epidemic of smallpox. She was vaccinated and recommended that here staff also be vaccinated. See 2SM303. Not all drugs prescribed by physicians are harmful, but many are. Not all herbals prescribed by NDs are harmless. See www.naturaldatabase.com. G.R. Waite, MD, MPH
I agree with that. Some herbs like wormwood and Senna, are harmful in large quantities, but are good for medicinal purposes when applied properly in small quantities. But prevention would null the need for even the harmful herbs.
The problem is the whole Education system with the medical field. It is largely supported by the pharmaceutical industry. Physicians are taught what big pharma wants them to learn. A family friend, just had a daughter graduate from Med school. In her entire schooling, she only took a 4 hour course in nutrition. 4 hours !!! And when she and her husband went to a medical seminar for a weekend, the whole time was spent learning what drugs to prescribe. Like that doctor says in his book, doctors are trained to attack disease, not teach people how to prevent disease.
Therein lies the problem.
Then you have the other extreme with the natural field which is dominated by spiritualists and have some other weird beliefs that have infiltrated themselves into the herbal field. I believe that Adventists should be forefront in the herbal field. God needs to be acknowledged for any true healing to take place.
The other problem that I see is with the N.D's. Many of them still choose to treat the sickness or problems, rather than to educate people on how to prevent. While they use herbs, or natural remedies, it is better than using drugs. BUT, if they are not educating people how to prevent things or change their bad habits, they too, are cashing in on merely treating the symptoms.
Let's face it. Many people would choose the herbal way, but since it isn't covered by medical, they can't afford the services. I know of relatives who do this very thing. They know the natural way is better, but cannot, or choose not to spend their money on herbal remedies. It needs to be available for everyone. It may never happen, especially with the protectionism going on by the government to protect big pharma.
quote:Originally posted by Windsor: I think some of today's population has forgotten how devastating a lot of these diseases once were and still are among the unvaccinated. Especially the babies born to mothers with the diseases, e.g. Rubella. Do a search on congenital rubella infections. It's horrible. Unfortunately in California there are a lot of Mexicans who have not received their MMR shots and their children suffer horribly because of it. People with absolutely no medical training (most of those here) should not speak with authority on a subject that they know nothing about other than a few anecdotes.
While I have received no medical training, we have access to other books written by M.D's and of course, writings inspired from God (who ultimately has higher knowledge than you or I as He created us) That should be enough to learn the basics. Education doesn't end after ten years of medical training; it is ongoing. Did Ellen White have any medical training ? No. I see education as a learning process. We read, we listen, we then learn. We acquire knowledge that way. Many times, people I have spoken to tell of how their doctor doesn't listen to them. People know when something is wrong with them, but many doctors choose to categorize people into one group and overlook individuality.
Since you are a physician Windsor, perhaps you would care to contribute some insight as to why mercury was used for so many years, despite the fact that it is the most toxic element on the periodic table of elements. Or how formaldehyde is used in certain vaccines when it is known it is a harmful substance. Surely noone can defend that toxic substances have a role to play in building our immune systems.
A quote below from Ministry of Healing pg 126,127
quote: A practise that is laying the foundation of a vast amount of disease and of even more serious evils is the free use of poisonous drugs. When attacked by disease, many will not take the trouble to search out the cause of their illness. Their chief anxiety is to rid themselves of pain and inconvenience. So they resort to patent nostrums, of whose real properties they know little, or they apply to a physician for some remedy to counteract the result of their misdoing, but with no thought of making a change in their unhealthful habits. If immediate benefit is not realized, another medicine is tried,a nd then another. Thus the evil continues.
People need to be taught that drugs do not cure disease. It is true that they sometimes afford present relief, and the patient appears to recover as the result of their use; this is because nature has sufficient vital force to expel the poison and to correct the conditions that caused the disease. Health is recovered in spite of the drug. But in most cases the drug only changes the form and location of the disease. Often the effect of the poison seems to be overcome for a time, but the results remain in the system and work greater harm at some later period.
By the use of poisonous drugs, many bring upon themselves lifelong illness, and many lives are lost that might be saved by the use of natural methods of healing. The poisons contained in many so-called remedies create habits and appetites that mean ruin to both soul and body. Many of the popular nostrums called patent medicines, and even some of the drugs dispensed by physicians, act a part in laying the foundation of the liquor habit, the opium habit, the morphine habit, that are so terrible in society....
....The use of natural remedies requires an amount of care and effort that many aren't willing to give. Nature's process of healing and upbuilding is gradual, and to the impatient it seems slow. The surrender of hurtful indulgences requires sacrifice. But in the end it will be found that nature, untrammeled, does her work wisely and well. Those who persevere in obedience to her laws will reap the reward of health of body and health of mind.
Too little attention is generally given to the preservation of health. It is far better to prevent disease than to know how to treat it when contracted. It is the duty of every person , for his own sake, and for the sake of humanity, to inform himself in regard to the laws of life and conscientiously to obey them. All need to become acquainted with the most wonderful of all organisms, the human body. They should understand the functions of the various organs and the dependence of one upon another for the healthy action of all. They should study the influence of the mind upon the body , and of the body upon the mind, and the laws by which they are governed.
Has anyone looked up the word "Nostrum" ? I just did. It is interesting to know that definition. I view many drugs today as nostrums.
Mercury in childhood vaccines: what did the government know ?
It's a question that has divided doctors, parents and government scientists for more than a decade: Do childhood vaccines or additives cause neurological damage?
Next month, a congressional committee will hear testimony on the subject. A California university has a huge government grant to research it.
And the possible link has been the focus of a three-month News 8 Investigation.
At the center of the investigation: a preservative put into many vaccines. It's called Thimerosal, and it's made from mercury, the second most toxic metal known to man. Uranium is the most toxic. For years, Thimerosal has been extremely controversial because there were alternatives to preventing vaccine contamination. And, questions remain about how pharmaceutical companies conduct vaccine research and how the government regulates those companies.
Centuries ago, the shimmering properties of mercury captivated the philosopher Aristotle, who called it "quicksilver" - and the name stuck.
Perhaps the best visual example of what low-levels of mercury can do to the brain is seen in a videotaped experiment by scientists at the University of Calgary.
"Over the next thirty minutes, the neurite membrane underwent rapid degeneration, leaving behind the denuded neurofibrils seen here," the narration on the tape said. "In contrast, other heavy metals added to this concentration - such as aluminum, lead, cadmium and manganese - did not produce this effect."
Starting in the early nineties, government regulators dramatically increased the amount of Thimerosal exposure to babies by adding two new vaccines to the roster of mandatory immunizations children must have before enrolling in school.
The combination of the Hepatitis B vaccine and the HiB vaccine more than doubled the amount of mercury children like Jac Counter received before the age of two.
Jack's parents say today, at age five, he has been diagnosed as having "mercury-induced autism".
"If you take a ten-pound baby in, and it gets four shots on that one day, which is a common practice - that's equivalent to giving a 100-pound person forty shots in one day," said mercury expert Dr. Boyd Haley.
Haley has testified before Congress and the Pentagon as one of the nation's leading experts on Thimerosal and mercury poisoning. The research he's done at the University of Kentucky leads him to believe that some children are genetically predisposed to storing mercury in their brains.
It's the cummulative effect of the mercury which Haley and other scientists say leads to neurological disorders, including autism.
However, members of the government's vaccine committees, like Dr. Jane Siegel, insist the proof isn't there.
Under pressure from the American Academy of Pediatrics, these government committees ordered pharmaceutical companies to stop putting Thimerosal in vaccines by March 2001.
"The topic was researched, it was reviewed, (with) no data to prove a causitive role," Siegel said. "Nevertheless, a call for Thimerosal removal was made. Within two months of the publication of that statement, the Hepatitis B vaccine for infants was free of Thimerosal. Within 18 months, there was on the market all Thimerosal-free vaccine.
"I think this is an incredible achievement."
But did the government really move fast enough to protect America's children? After all, Thimerosal had been used in vaccines since the 1930s.
Documents obtained in a lawsuit show that the government began asking questions about the compound's saftey in 1972. Eli Lilly, which holds the patent on Thimerosal, assured the FDA in a report that "a series of 22 human subjects" were injected with a one-percent solution "without ill effect".
Attorney Andy Waters said what the pharmaceutical giant concealed from the government is that the tests were conducted in 1929 by a young researcher named K.C. Smithburn - on patients dying of mennigitis.
"It's apparent that Lilly didn't want to do the study themselves because it's apparent that there were enormous ethical problems with injecting people - even people dying of meningitis - with mercury," Waters said. "What Smithburn did was wrong, because he agreed to do the study for Lilly, and not only did he agree to do it, but he agreed to give them results that he knew were flawed.
"They knew, and he knew, (the results) were going to be published as the truth."
The FDA questioned Thimerosal's safety again in 1982 - this time, noting that it was "not safe for 'over-the-counter' topical use because of its potential for cell damage". Despite that evidence, however, the government regulatory committees did nothing to question its use in childhood vaccines.
Meanwhile, measures were taken to remove the compound from pet innoculations. More internal company documents and memos show that Eli Lilly began revising its claims about Thimerosal starting in the 1960s, changing package inserts from stating "non-toxic" to "non-irritating to body to issue".
Then, in November 1973, the company's legal division suggested adding the statement: "Do not use when aluminum may come in contact with treated skin". Aluminum is a compound added to many vaccines as a catalyst. But even with this warning, the government committees did nothing.
Haley said any good biochemist knows that Thimerosal and aluminum react dangerously when combined together.
He showed News 8 the results of his experiments on human brain neurons.
"If we add this level of aluminum that we see very little toxicity with to this level of Thimerosal, we get this bottom line ... indicating that we have dramatically enhanced the toxicity, where within 24 hours essentially all of the neurons are dead," Haley said.
Officials at Eli Lilly declined to interview with News 8. However, they did send an e-mail, which said in part that the company's "primary concern is for patient safety". The e-mail also stated that "Lilly discontinued its sale or use of (Thimerosal) about ten years ago".
However, that did not stop other pharmaceutical companies from taking over the production of the vaccine preservative.
In December 1999, shortly before Eli Lilly quit producing thimerosal, the company changed its packaging insert again. This time, Lilly warned that Thimerosal was "toxic". Additionally, it stated that effects of exposure may include "fetal changes, decreased offspring survival, and lung tissue changes".
However, the government's vaccine committee continues to insist that Thimerosal has never been dangerous to American children.
So, the 1999 Eli Lilly package insert was shown to Dr. Jane Siegel for her reaction:
"I cannot comment on this unless I have clarification," Siegel said. "You will have to interview the public. I don't know - I just know that if you show me this piece of paper I cannot make a comment on this - I find it uninterpretable."
Haley said the government should have taken action.
"There should have been an immediate recall of the vaccine," Haley said. "We would do that with an automobile if it had a bad brake system. If we just suspected it had a bad brake system, they would do that. The government has no problems - they'd do it immediately."
The congressional hearing on the use of Thimerosal in vaccines begins in June. While production of the preservative was stopped a year ago, as Dr. Haley pointed out, existing doses were not recalled.
Now, it needs to be re-stated that the easiest solution for parents who are concerned about upcoming immunizations is to simply ask your doctor in advance for Thimerosal-free vaccines.
NOTE: Chelation (pronounced "kee-lay-shun") is a controversial process that detoxifies the body of heavy metals, such as mercury. Many parents of autistic children strongly advocate the procedure. However, many physicians and the FDA question its effectiveness.
Mercury in childhood vaccines: what did the government know?
By VALERI WILLIAMS / WFAA-TV DALLAS
For decades, half of all childhood vaccines contained a chemical preservative called Thimerosal.
It is made from mercury, one of the most poisonous substances on Earth.
News 8 has spent the past three months investigating claims that government regulators and some pharmaceutical companies knew of the dangers, but never told the public.
From the outset, it must be stressed that this report is not anti-vaccination. Every person interviewed for this story believes in the importance of having children immunized. Rather, the focus is on the possible link between Thimerosal and neurological disorders.
Before the 1990s, 1 in 10,000 children were diagnosed with autism. But in the past decade, as the government has increased the number of mandatory vaccines, some recent studies suggest the rate of autism has risen to 1 in about 250 children.
Some say the cause may be mercury poisoning.
From the day that little Jac Counter was born in 1996, his proud parents began documenting his progress with a video camera.
There was the first tooth, the first bowl of spaghetti, and the first steps.
But among all the precious images of their baby boy, there was another "first" that the Counters unknowingly recorded on video. And that, they say, was the beginning of Jac's descent into "mercury-induced autism." On one of the tapes, at 22 months, Jac verbalized playfully with his father.
Jac's parents say by the age of 4, however, he had lost all his verbal skills. Communication became a series of screams and tantrums. And there was other odd, compulsive behavior, like constant repetitive movements and licking many objects.
It was a urine test for 15 toxic metals that provided Joe and Theresa Counter with the first indication of what was wrong with their son.
The test showed that Jac's levels for arsenic, cadmium and nickel were normal or within an acceptable range. But as far as the results for mercury were concerned, the line goes off the chart.
Experts report that patients with mercury poisoning or autism share many of the same symptoms, including obsessive-compulsive behavior and loss of speech.
Jac's only possible encounter with sizable amounts of mercury, say the Counters, is through his vaccines.
"It's not that any one shot (did it)," father Joe Counter said. "The Thimerosal or the mercury in one of my son's vaccinations - well, he didn't get one shot, he got 30 shots or whatever, or however many he got. And it was the cumulative affect that, at some point, his body said, 'Stop it, I can't take this any more.' "
The Counters, who live in Plano, became the first family in the nation to file a lawsuit against pharmaceutical companies who put Thirmerosal in their vaccines.
Since last year, another 50 families with autistic children in 8 states have filed suit as well.
Medical files obtained by News 8 for at least five of the children show excessively high levels of mercury, just like Jac Counter.
So how much mercury are we talking about?
Approximately 12 out of the 18 vaccine doses the average American child receives before the age of two contain Thimerosal. Cumulatively, that's more than 200 micrograms of mercury, which would fit on the head of a pin.
According to the EPA, dropping that pin-head of mercury into 23 gallons of water would make it unsafe for human consumption. "Think about the idea of injecting your own child with levels of mercury that are thirty to forty times what's considered safe for an adult," Dallas attorney Andy Waters said. "And, I think if any human being thinks about that very long, they recognize that this is something that never should have happened."
Waters represents the Counters, as well as other families in the lawsuits. News 8 took some of his firm's research on Thimerosal to several top experts for their opinions.
Dr. Boyd Haley is the Chairman of the Chemistry Department at the University of Kentucky. He's one of the nation's leading experts on mercury poisoning and has studied Thimerosal in vaccines. Thimerosal "is one of the most toxic compounds I know of," Haley said. "I can't think of anything that I know of is more lethal."
Dr. Jane Siegel is a professor of pediatrics at UT Southwestern in Dallas. For the past five years, Siegel has sat on the government vaccine committee that decides which vaccines are mandatory for children.
"I believe there is no data thus far that's been looked at to prove that there's a connection - that there's a causitive relationship," Siegel said.
But just two years ago, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did conduct a study, which showed that three-month-old babies exposed to just 63 micrograms of mercury - less than half of the aforementioned pin top - were two-and-a-half times more likely to develop autism.
The study is stamped "Confidential" and "Do Not Copy or Release." Siegel says it was never made public because it was just a draft.
"Until they're final, and are ready for publication, they're always considered a draft, not to be widely distributed," Siegel said. "This preliminary information could be distributed, and that could do harm." So why was it marked 'Confidential, Do Not Release', rather than a simple 'Draft'?
"I think we're mincing words," Siegel said.
Subsequently, the CDC did release a report to the public, but the findings were much different. The new study was amended with different data which lowered the autism rate.
Dr. Sidney Baker has reviewed both reports. Baker has authored six medical books, and written scores of articles on childhood behavior and autism.
Baker is critical of the CDC study.
"I can't imagine that smart people could possibly have re-arranged the data the way they were done, and represented the data the way they were done, without doing it on purpose and with the express purpose, as you say, of a coverup," Baker said.
Baker treats hundreds of autistic patients each year from around the country. He suspects that about half of the children he sees have been affected by Thimerosal from their vaccines.
Baker said the CDC's refusal to release raw data from the study for outside experts to evaluate - a standard protocol in medical research - is helping to fuel the controversy.
To parents like the Counters, that is unforgiveable.
"It doesn't matter that 95% or 98%, or whatever the percentage of the kids - somehow their system is able to take in a particular metal - in this case, mercury - and flush it out," Counter said. "My kid couldn't, and it wreaked havoc on his system.
"It fried his wires."
Under pressure from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the CDC, pharmaceutical companies agreed to stop manufacturing vaccines containing Thimerosal in March 2001. But while production may have ceased, vaccine vials already containing Thimerosal were not recalled.
A very simple solution for parents worried about upcoming shots for children is to ask your doctor ahead of time for Thimerosal-free vaccines.
Tuesday night, the News 8 investigation continues with what the government, and at least one pharmaceutical company, knew 30 years ago about Thimerosal's dangers - and didn't tell the public.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31658 02/12/0612:06 AM02/12/0612:06 AM
Vaccine Ingredients and Contact Info Dawn Winkler Source: 1997 Physicians' Desk Reference Toll Free Numbers can be called to obtain product inserts This is a representative, not a comprehensive, list of the various types of vaccines
Havrix Hepatitis A SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals 1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231 produced using formalin, aluminum hydroxide, phenoxyethanol (antifreeze), polysorbate 20, residual MRC5 proteins (from medium) medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
Biavax Rubella and Mumps Virus Vaccine Live Merck & Co, Inc. 1-800-672-6372 produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
IPOL Inactivated Polio Vaccine Connaught Laboratories 1-800-822-2463 produced using 3 types of polio virus, formaldehyde, phenoxyethanol (antifreeze), neomycin, streptomycin, polymyxin B medium: VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
MMR Measles Mumps Rubella Live Virus Vaccine Merck & Co., Inc. 1-800-672-6372 produced using sorbitol, neomycin, hydrolyzed gelatin mediums: M&M - chick embryo Rubella - human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
M-R-Vax Measles and Rubella Virus Vaccine Live Merck & Co., Inc. 1-800-672-6372 produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin mediums: M - chick embryo R - human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
Menomune Meningococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine Connaught Laboratories 1-800-822-2463 produced using thimerosal, lactose medium: freeze dried polysaccharride antigens from Neisseria Meningitidis
Meruvax II Rubella Virus Vaccine Live Merck & Co., Inc. 1-800-672-6372 produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
Mumpsvax Mumps Virus Vaccine Live Merck & Co., Inc. 1-800-672-6372 produced using neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
Orimune Poliovirus Vaccine Live Oral Trivalent Lederle Laboratories 1-800-934-5556 produced using 3 types of attenuated polioviruses, streptomycin, neomycin, calf serum, sorbitol medium: monkey kidney cell culture
Imovax Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed Connaught Laboratories 1-800-822-2463 produced using human albumin, neomycin sulfate, phenol red indicator medium: human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
Rabies Vaccine Adsorbed SmithKline Beecham Pharmaceuticals 1-800-366-8900 ext. 5231 produced using betapropiolactone, aluminum phosphate, sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate (thimerosal), phenol red medium: fetal rhesus monkey lung cells
continued..
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31659 02/12/0612:09 AM02/12/0612:09 AM
quote: According to IVAC, (Illinois Vaccine Awareness Coalition 708-848-0116) all vaccines contain monosodium glutamate even if not listed in product insert. According to numerous sources, all vaccines contain thimerosal (mercury). Manufacturers have declared that it is not possible to produce any vaccine without these two components.
Chemical Profiles and Definitions Sources: EDF (Environmental Defense Fund) & MME (Mosby's Medical Encyclopdia)
Amphotericin B: MME definintion - "a drug used to treat fungus infections. Known allergy to this drug prohibits use. Side effects include blood clots, blood defects, kidney problems, nausea and fever. When used on the skin, allergic reactions can occur."
Aluminum: EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant neurotoxicant respiratory toxicant More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems On at least 2 federal regulatory lists
Beta-Propiolactone: EDF Recognized - carcinogen EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant respiratory toxicant skin or sense organ toxicant More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 3 ranking systems On at least 5 federal regulatory lists Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%)to humans
Formaldehyde: EDF Recognized - carcinogen Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant immunotoxicant neurotoxicant reproductive toxicant respiratory toxicant skin or sense organ toxicant More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems On at least 8 federal regulatory lists Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health
Gentamicin Sulfate: an antibiotic
Hydrolyzed Gelatin: obtained from selected pieces of calf and cattle skins, de-mineralized cattle bones (ossein) and porkskin
Monosodium Glutamate: Normally used as a flavor enhancer in a variety of foods, however, due to concerns expressed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, MSG was removed from all products intended for use in infants under the age of one. Injections of glutamate into laboratory animals have resulted in damage to nerve cells in the brain.
Neomycin: an antibiotic
Phenol : EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant aka Carbolic Acid developmental toxicant gastrointestinal or liver toxicant kidney toxicant neurotoxicant respiratory toxicant skin or sense organ toxicant More hazardous than most chemicals in 3 out of 10 ranking systems On at least 8 federal regulatory lists
Phenoxyethanol: EDF Suspected - developmental toxicant aka Antifreeze reproductive toxicant Less hazardous than most chemicals in 3 ranking systems
Polyribosylribitol: a component of the Hib bacterium
Polymyxin: an antibiotic
Polysorbate: EDF Suspected - skin or sense organ toxicant
Sorbitol: EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant Less hazardous than most chemicals in 1 ranking system
Streptomycin: an antibiotic
Sucrose: refined sugar
Thimerosal: EDF Recognized - development toxicant Suspected - skin or sense organ toxicant
Tri(n)butylphosphate: EDF Suspected - kidney toxicant neurotoxicant More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 3 ranking systems On at least 1 federal regulatory list
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31660 02/12/0602:53 AM02/12/0602:53 AM
You make it sound so simple Bobby. Fact is, people do not want to change their diet and no amount of convincing by a physician will change that. Either they get their pill or they end up even worse off with bad health plus lack of medication to help counter it.
Also, with cholesterol for example, some people cannot get their levels down to a safe limit by diet alone. In that case, it's a pill, or they die young.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31661 02/16/0607:46 AM02/16/0607:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by Windsor: You make it sound so simple Bobby. Fact is, people do not want to change their diet and no amount of convincing by a physician will change that. Either they get their pill or they end up even worse off with bad health plus lack of medication to help counter it.
Also, with cholesterol for example, some people cannot get their levels down to a safe limit by diet alone. In that case, it's a pill, or they die young.
You are correct Windsor. Most people do not want to change their diet. Because of the addictive additives placed into the foods and the emotional issues that lead people to turn to food for "comfort" in the first place. Between those two things, it is almost impossible for some to give up their favorite foods. It appears to have similarities to weaning a drug addict off of drugs.
However, if more doctors stood for the health message, more people would listen. My sister-in-law is a prime example of one who follows her doctor's orders to a "T". Her doctor told her to eat every two hours. That is totally against the health laws. It is no wonder she only has a bowel movement once per week at best. Also, because of her taking antibiotics for literally every little thing, and running to her doctor for every little sniffle, she has become the epitomy of the weak immune system. Drugs, also contribute to slowing down the bowels.
If a doctor explains the two sides, and the person still chooses the drug/pill, then that is their choice. But a doctor can educate patients to make a better decision for their long term health if simple changes are made.
Are doctors aware of ALL side effects of each drug prescribed ? I read an article of how everyday acetaminophen can cause poisoning. I bet not too many people realize that. I didn't realize how severe it was until recently. I will copy and paste the article for people to read. Surely, most doctors are not even aware of the dangers of even the simplest drugs and their side effects. More of the benefits are focused on.
I would have to disagree with you regarding cholesterol. Most cholesterol can be reversed by diet alone. A start, is to abstain from all animal products. Meat and dairy are to go, margarines, which contain sheep skin or cow skin (as Vitamin D3), need to go. Extra cholesterol is added to us when we consume animal products, (meat and eggs more so than dairy). So a start, is to seriously reduce, if not abolish, any meat eating. People who have had a stroke or heart attack, this holds especially true. Another piece to add to the puzzle is the hydrogenated oils. All Saturated fats are from animals, except for palm oil and one other. Saturated fats are to be avoided if they are animal or not. They are detrimental to health.
Have you ever evaluated the CHIP program Windsor ? Not only is it Adventist, but a doctor started the whole thing. Using simple, inexpensive methods to reverse disease, and give vitality back to people. Here is a quote from the website
quote: For more than 20 years, Dr. Hans Diehl’s Coronary Health Improvement Project (CHIP) has helped more than 40,000 people to rediscover their health by preventing, arresting and reversing their diseases. The CHIP program is an engaging, highly entertaining 40-hour scientific journey into the causes and consequences of our present “state of health” in Western societies. Piloted in communities throughout North America, and with results published in several medical journals, CHIP is making a difference. CHIP will not only show you WHY we need to make better lifestyle choices but also HOW to stop the ‘good life’ from killing us. CHIP establishes the principle of health as an absolute necessity rather than a trendy option. It is not natural to be obese and hypertensive, have high cholesterol and triglycerides, and to suffer from diabetes, constipation, heartburn, angina and heart disease.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31662 02/16/0611:07 AM02/16/0611:07 AM
My cousin who is a doctor, became disagreeble towards me when the lump on my breast was gone through natural methods of diet and herbs. He told me to stop telling stories about how the lump was gone. Also, if I do not stop telling what happened to me some people are going to end up believing me.
He further explained that people do not have money to be eating well so he would not tell them how to eat right.
Thank you for your time, Your Sister in Christ Jesus, Cheri Fritz
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31663 02/25/0609:24 AM02/25/0609:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by Cheri Fritz: Greetings Bobby,
My cousin who is a doctor, became disagreeble towards me when the lump on my breast was gone through natural methods of diet and herbs. He told me to stop telling stories about how the lump was gone. Also, if I do not stop telling what happened to me some people are going to end up believing me.
He further explained that people do not have money to be eating well so he would not tell them how to eat right.
Thank you for your time, Your Sister in Christ Jesus, Cheri Fritz
I find it really strange to read testimonies like yours. One would think that a doctor would be overjoyed to learn of miracles such as that. Some would be, but are few & far between. The truth regarding his exclamation regarding eating right is silly. Maybe he said that because he is one of the majority of doctors who haven't learned much about nutrition. People are in the dark regarding dietary habits, and the effects of the foods today. I honestly believe that the food manufactured today is a form of population control. A slow but eventual death by poisoning. With more and more research I read, it is all too apparent.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots#31664 07/13/0604:46 AM07/13/0604:46 AM
One thing I would like to add to this thread; what about God in all of this?
What did people do before these injections came into being? Despite many people dying in the world due to various diseases and plagues, there were people who always survived. And didn't God tell us that if we follow His laws, He would keep us free from all disease ?
I think man has forgotten their dependence on God, and science has figured they are one step better by producing these immunizations/vaccines.
One thing I would like to add to this thread; what about God in all of this?
What did people do before these injections came into being? Despite many people dying in the world due to various diseases and plagues, there were people who always survived. And didn't God tell us that if we follow His laws, He would keep us free from all disease ?
I think man has forgotten their dependence on God, and science has figured they are one step better by producing these immunizations/vaccines.
God has His own vaccination system which is far superior to man's--colostrum.
Vaccines are scientifically proven to be detrimental, now, but there is a grand cover-up of the facts in order to preserve the pharmaceutical companies' large consumer base (i.e. revenue). There are multiple individuals who present scientifically sound data on the topic, and one of the best of these is Dr. Sherri Tenpenny. She is very knowledgeable on the topic, and has researched it thoroughly. She is able to prove the connection between the vaccinations and the disorders which they produce, by following the molecular pathways (the chemistry of some of that is over my head, but physicians would understand it). There are many youtube videos of her. Here is one that is more down to earth for the general public, where she was interviewed for the Alex Jones show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nx9FufpXX4
I have a relative working in Southern Cal. in a medical facility there who has seen 10 cases of the whooping cough come in recently, and nine of the ten were vaccinated for it. They each had moderately severe cases of it. The one which had NOT been vaccinated was only mildly ill, and was shortly sent back home to recover on his own. He had not received any vaccines.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
The idea behind vaccinations is that we give the body a small/weak dose of a disease so that the immune system can develop its defenses against the disease such that the body will be more able to defend itself the next time the disease comes along. And this makes perfect sense.
The problem is that vaccinations do not expose the immune system to the disease in the same way that it would naturally occur. For instance, the normal way for the flu virus to infect a person is by entering through one of the body's openings (nose, mouth, etc.). If/when that happens, the immune system goes into action, enlisting everything from the skin, to the mucus membranes, to the blood cells. Everything works together to fend off the attack. But when you inject the flu virus directly into the bloodstream, it is unnatural and the immune system does not respond the way it was designed to respond. Hence, the person does not really become immune.
And the medical industry knows this. When you get the measles the natural way, and your body's immune system fends it off, you don't need a booster. Why would you need booster shots for vaccinations? Because they don't actually immunize the way the real thing does. Because the immune system is not strengthened in the same way. When there is an outbreak of chicken pox at school, do they only send home the non-vaccinated kids? No. They send them all home, because even the vaccinated kids are susceptible.
In short, we are messing around with the immune system in a way that bypasses the way it was designed to work. Could that have detrimental effects? If instead of using it the way it was designed, you only use the 1st/low gear in your car, simply revving the engine to go faster, could that have detrimental effects on your car? For both, the answer is a definite Yes!
After decades of "going outside design specifications," is there any evidence that humanity's immune system is no longer working well? Vaccinations are usually credited for eradicating such childhood diseases as mumps, measles, and chicken pox. Should they also get the credit for the diseases that kids have now, such as diabetes, cancer and autism? Should they be credited for AIDS, leukemia, and other diseases of the immune system? Perhaps. But I will let somebody else pull up the charts that show the rise of these plagues in recent times, mirroring the rise of vaccine use.
Instead, think about this possibility: Is it possible that our immune systems are designed to get stronger by use, like our muscles? If we artificially prevent them from being strengthened by the childhood diseases our ancestors considered common, is it possible that they will be too weak to withstand the adult diseases that our ancestors considered rare? IOW, have we exchanged chicken pox for leukemia, mumps for AIDS? If so, was it a wise trade?
In case anyone is wondering, my kids are immunized. When we hear that one of our friends has chicken pox or measles or something similar, we pay them a visit. We say hello, offer some comfort, and pick up a vaccine the natural way. And in between such times, we build the immune system by healthy habits.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
But I will let somebody else pull up the charts that show the rise of these plagues in recent times, mirroring the rise of vaccine use.
Yes, I find it interesting that there are "outbreaks" of chickenpox and whooping cough. If vaccines truly were working, why these outbreaks? And, what is most interesting is the news stories about such outbreaks do not detail whether those with the disease have been vaccinated or not. Looks like to me, that would be an important component.
When reading the history and the lack of the scientific method of Pasteur and others who made up such an idea, you lose all respect of them and the teachers who blindly taught you they were so great. But the saddest part is all the ones who say, well, I don't hear the illness stories as my parents did and doctors wouldn't give you something that doesn't work, would they?
the news stories about such outbreaks do not detail whether those with the disease have been vaccinated or not. Looks like to me, that would be an important component.
Only if you are expecting unbiased news.....
Originally Posted By: kland
I don't hear the illness stories as my parents did
But our parents never heard the illness stories we hear today.
Originally Posted By: kland
doctors wouldn't give you something that doesn't work, would they?
I work with doctors all the time (in hospice). Effectiveness is not always at the top of their priority list. Orthodoxy and political correctness often win out. And giving the patient what he wants, as opposed to what he needs, is not uncommon.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Actually, what usually "wins out" is the economics. So-called conventional medicine in this country is no longer done by qualified medical personel. Instead, it is done by armchair bureaucrats, businessmen and lobbyists in the pharmaceutical industry. Big Pharma will only pay for certain drugs, certain lab tests, certain treatments. If the doctor wants to be paid through the patient's insurance, he has to follow Big Pharma's rules. This basically cripples his own ability to practice medicine.
The only real doctors in America today are the ones brave enough to accept no insurance, and thus be free of the "strings attached." It takes bravery, because few like to pay out of pocket without the aid of their insurance company.
Having good insurance might be a nice idea...but it sure isn't the same as having a good doctor. Unfortunately, the two are somewhat mutually incompatible.
Insurance pays for the vaccines, because Big Pharma makes lots of money on them, and the pharmaceutical industry is in league with the insurance companies.
It is my understanding that former president Bush had stock in the vaccine industry. That should be a clear conflict of interest! Small wonder that laws were passed requiring more vaccines during his tenure.
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Just a few days ago a Norwegian newspaper revealed that medical authorities are no longer recommending vaccines against the swine flu because there are too many casualties among children.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots
[Re: Johann]
#135583 08/07/1112:51 AM08/07/1112:51 AM
Ownership of pharmaceutical stock is common to many investment portfolios (and pension funds). It's both profitable & respectable, and it's likely the church has a good chunk.
MDs are well-paid cogs of the machine. Patients are required to make the machine run. Without patients the medical machine wlll not run and the doctors will not be paid.
For this reason Adventist hospitals do not practice the health message as given through Ellen White....the supply of patients would dwindle.
A physician who is a friend of mine is not very interested in symptoms of his patients. In stead he looks for the causes of the sickness which he frequently finds in vaccines which could be take recently or during childhood - or in side effects of other medication. By removing the causes rather than the symptoms the patients are healed. It helps greatly to use the original diet given to man by the Creator.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
How does your doctor friend remove the vaccine once it has been given?
Blessings,
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
He removes all kinds of things in different ways. He has no one method for all of his patients, because no two are alike, and there might be a number of other conditions present. Some of his patients are athletes who have been poisoned by too much iron or something else and had to give up their sports. After they have been detoxicated by him they have taken up their former sports and achieved silver or gold medals in National, European, or World Championships.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
In case you didn't understand, Johann said the doctor removes the causes, not the vaccine. And it's what's found in vaccines. While you are right in the vaccine initially caused the illness, he looks for underlying cause of the patient's symptoms and helps remove that. For example, chelation therapy has been suggested for removing mercury.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots
[Re: kland]
#135742 08/26/1101:28 AM08/26/1101:28 AM
Just a question about the "protection" vaccines had offered in the past. When polio was at its peak, those countries who did not vaccinate had a quicker return to normal than those that did vaccinate. Yet vaccinations were credited with getting rid of polio.
Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 3.
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots
[Re: Bobby]
#183280 04/13/1707:35 AM04/13/1707:35 AM
In this 8 or 9 video series, Ty Bollinger visits several doctors, scientists, and experts on the subject of vaccination.
Today was episode was very good exposing the real history of small pox. CDC and their lies claim their vaccines eradicated small pox....is the furthest from the truth. What really happened, it is their vaccines that spread the small pox and killed many...plus this smallpox vaccine also led to the Taberculosis outbreak. It was the protest outrage of the people that demanded to stop it, that they stopped forcing this vaccine on society and removed it altogether.
Then smallpox was eradicated by simply cleaning the area and quarantine the infected subject for a time and let the body fight it. It's only with these measures that smallpox disappeared.
This series of video will get more interesting as they explore the connection of the heavy metals content of these vaccines that leads to various forms of Autism.
They want your e-mail. They track where it's referred from. They ask your opinion on vaccines. They want you to refer it to others. They offer incentives for more referrals, no doubt getting your mailing address in the future. And maybe track what type of things you buy with the gift cards.
So, they know your opinion on vaccines, they know your friends, they know your e-mail. You are tagged.
Paranoid? Maybe. But can you think of those who would love a list of antivacciners and all their friends?
They want your e-mail. They track where it's referred from. They ask your opinion on vaccines. They want you to refer it to others. They offer incentives for more referrals, no doubt getting your mailing address in the future. And maybe track what type of things you buy with the gift cards.
So, they know your opinion on vaccines, they know your friends, they know your e-mail. You are tagged.
Paranoid? Maybe. But can you think of those who would love a list of antivacciners and all their friends?
No for the free stuff, you got to go thru their control channel.
You can always wait for a few months....these will all be copied and made available on you-tube.
I've listened to their "the truth about Cancer" series via their free-week offer. Once the video series was over, then you just unsubscribe. No one needs to participate to their other stuff.... just ignore it.
I'm not sure you are understanding what I meant by "tagged", marked, your e-mail address has been filed and recorded along with anything else about you.
I'm not sure you are understanding what I meant by "tagged", marked, your e-mail address has been filed and recorded along with anything else about you.
It's not about annoyance.
I've dealth with them last year with their "The truth about cancer" series. Yes you are taggeed because you become a subscriber. But once you unsubscribe you don't get tagged again. And no it doesn't go to anyone else according to my experience.
If you don't know these people as most of us; thus their mission might be questionable... that is a healthy and yes your concern might be valid if it has grounds to support that. Everyone should investigate and pray about it.
Of course there's going to be plenty of "fake rumors" about them on the internet because they are going heads on against the Babylonian Health Care System[and beyond].
And then there's always going to be the people that trust the system and just don't agree with alternative medicine and sees these doctors as quacks.
And then, there's many of them in the video I personally wouldn't agree with their (cancer) practice myself. But for sure what they offer, is way better than chemotherapy ...
As far as I'm concern....everyone[we or the doctors in the videos] doesn't have the whole truth; so we need the Holy Spirit to weed out the unnecessary things. However, I have learned much from hearing all these experts & witnesses different perspective that that by itself is good.
He removes all kinds of things in different ways. He has no one method for all of his patients, because no two are alike, and there might be a number of other conditions present. Some of his patients are athletes who have been poisoned by too much iron or something else and had to give up their sports. After they have been detoxicated by him they have taken up their former sports and achieved silver or gold medals in National, European, or World Championships.
I would like to hear more about said "detox methods" as mentioned in your post.
"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."
He removes all kinds of things in different ways. He has no one method for all of his patients, because no two are alike, and there might be a number of other conditions present. Some of his patients are athletes who have been poisoned by too much iron or something else and had to give up their sports. After they have been detoxicated by him they have taken up their former sports and achieved silver or gold medals in National, European, or World Championships.
Does he use hemp or cannabis in any way?
Re: Vaccines/Immunization shots
[Re: Bobby]
#183327 04/17/1711:27 AM04/17/1711:27 AM
I never heard hemp or cannabis to be used for a detox.
Usually a detox involves a clean food diet rich in fruits & veges and some certain natural herbs tablets that favors a specific organ cleansing. Usually, you cleanse an organ at a time : first the colon, then liver, then kidney. Then proceeds with the overall removing of the heavy metals and toxins.
I have looked at several detox(cleansing) programs out there. The one I have tried and am pleased with their product content, recommendations, and result is Dr. Groups programs at Global Healing Center.
I personally believe vaccines do more harm than good. I truly don't believe they are needed.
I hope they never become mandatory.
If you search into them, you'll find they never did anyone any good. I had been trained and believed Pasteur was a genius. Maybe for penicillin, maybe not. But I find out he was a snake oil salesman along with Salk and a few others. Marketing masterminds about the best I can say about them now.
Search for Antoine Béchamp.
Search the CDC site where you can find things admitting vaccines aren't 100% effective, or proved useless or harmful in a certain study, but we should continue taking them because "it's the best we've got".
Anyone hear how this year's flu vaccine came out, that is, was it "effective"? If a lot of people come down with the flu, we hear how there was a "mis-match", blah, blah, propaganda. Why do we not hear about it being effective, but we sure hear all about how it's not too late to get one? Maybe if people don't happen to get the flu, it is presumed they didn't step on any cracks, have a black cat cross their paths, threw salt over their shoulder, took a magic potion....
I would very much like to see the studies that show there is a link between Aluminum and Alzheimer's. A real scientific study. Less than 3 months ago my mother died from it so I had done a bit of reading about the deisease, there has never been a study that shows the link that I'm aware of.
Vaccines I consider a gift from God. They have saved millions of lives and countless others from the misery of the likes of polio. Are there side effects? Yes. There are side effects and dangers of autos as well, but the good far outweighs the harm so we still drive.
I would very much like to see the studies, scientific peer reviewed studies, that show any vaccine has saved lives.
Vaccines, I consider a curse from the devil himself!
I would very much like to see the studies, scientific peer reviewed studies, that show any vaccine has saved lives.
Um...Seriously?
Both Polio and Small Pox have virtually been wiped out due to the use of vaccines, saving millions of lives.
Unless I am seriously mistaken. In which case I would very much like to see the evidence showing that the vaccines have had no impact on these diseases.
"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
I would very much like to see the studies, scientific peer reviewed studies, that show any vaccine has saved lives.
Um...Seriously?
Both Polio and Small Pox have virtually been wiped out due to the use of vaccines, saving millions of lives.
Unless I am seriously mistaken. In which case I would very much like to see the evidence showing that the vaccines have had no impact on these diseases.
Nadi,
The biggest supporters of the vaccine industry can be found among three classes of people: 1) those with a vested interest; 2) those who espouse the view that what is good for one should be enforced for all; and 3) the ignorant. Perhaps the least culpable of the three are those of the third group--which is likely the majority as well. Few people have taken time to research the issue as they should--they just trust their doctors, hook-line-and-sinker style, basically telling them "Whatever you say, Doc!"
The polio vaccines have been keeping polio alive enough to warrant their continued production and use. This is good for Big Pharma. If no one needs their drugs anymore, they won't be paid to produce them. Just recently, a polio outbreak from the vaccine occurred in Laos, with multiple individuals developing paralysis as a result of the vaccine--all admitted by the CDC. I would guess that should the same have occurred on U.S. soil, the CDC would likely have classified it in such a way as to prevent implication of the vaccine--lest lawsuits ensue. With that in mind, perhaps such has occurred, and may even be ongoing but out of the public eye. The government has a record of concealing the facts regarding vaccinations.
The CDC just removed the notice two months ago from their website regarding vaccine-derived poliovirus type 1 (VDPV1) in Laos. See here for that: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/polio-laos. You can still find some of the details from the WHO page here: http://www.who.int/csr/don/25-february-2016-polio-lao/en/. I would recommend that you not wait too long to read it. Things don't stay online forever, especially when they represent "inconvenient truths."
An article to be found online here: http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2016/01/the-salk-polio-vaccine-tragedy/, details more of the polio vaccine history and how the government succeeded in concealing the facts of the case so that people would continue to trust the vaccines. I feel the information given in it is important enough, at least as a start to further research, to enclose it separately in the next post.
Green Cochoa.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
History is a powerful thing. If you accurately tell the story of an event that occurred, you get one picture, one understanding of it. Leave one tiny little detail out, however, and the whole picture changes. You can get thousands of details right, but get one wrong, or simply omit telling it, and an historical event can become so distorted that it becomes a lie. Take the story of the Salk inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). During the first half of the 1950s, Jonas Salk, MD developed the first injectable vaccine against polio containing inactivated, or “killed”, strains of the poliovirus.
As a dead, rather than live, virus vaccine, Dr. Salk’s IPV supposedly carried no risk of giving recipients “vaccine-associated polio paralysis.”1According to the World Health Organization (WHO), “IPV is produced from wild-type poliovirus strains of each serotype that have been inactivated (killed) with formalin.”2
Here’s that little detail, though. The poliovirus that Dr. Salk killed with formalin, or formaldehyde, were not always killed; they sometimes only appeared to be killed.
Live poliovirus, which was put in an injectable vaccine, would appear to be inactivated right after it was made, but sometimes it would ‘resurrect’ in the vial… In essence, the formaldehyde did not kill off all the polioviruses in these vaccines, which led to live polio viruses being injected. As a result, more people developed paralysis from the vaccine in 1955 than would have developed it from a wild, normal natural poliovirus.3
Oops.
Field trials for the Salk vaccine were conducted on more than 1,800,000 children in the United States in 1954.4Sponsored by the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis (NFIP), now known as the March of Dimes, “623,972 schoolchildren were injected with vaccine or placebo, and more than a million others participated as ‘observed’ controls.’5
On April 12, 1955, Thomas Francis Jr., MD, director of the Poliomyelitis Vaccine Evaluation Center at the University of Michigan School of Public Health, announced to the world that the Salk vaccine was “safe, effective, and potent,”—that it was “up to 90%” effective in preventing paralytic polio. Dr. Francis had been one of Dr. Salk’s professors at the University of Michigan’s School of Public Health Department of Epidemiology where Salk did his postgraduate training.4
During mid-April of 1955, about 400,000 people—mostly schoolchildren—in the U.S. were vaccinated with the Salk vaccine manufactured by Cutter Laboratories.6It turns out that more than 200,000 of these children, living in five western and midwestern states (Arizona, California, Idaho, Nevada and New Mexico7), were injected with vaccines “in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective.” The Cutter-produced vaccines ended up causing 40,000 cases of polio. It severely paralyzed 200 children and killed 10.8
The first of these cases to be reported was that of a young girl named Susan Pierce, who had received the vaccine on April 18, 1955.7
Five days later, she developed fever and neck stiffness. Six days later, her left arm was paralyzed. Seven days later, she was placed in an iron lung, and nine days later, she was dead.7
In his book The Cutter Incident: How America’s First Polio Vaccine Led to the Growing Vaccine Crisis, Paul Offit, MD writes, “Seventy-five percent of Cutter’s victims were paralyzed for the rest of their lives.” A team led by epidemiologisit Alexander Langmuir of the Communicable Diseases Center (now the CDC) in Atlanta, GA determined that “the disease caused by Cutter’s vaccine was worse than the disease caused by natural polio virus,” adds Dr. Offit.7
Children given Cutter’s vaccine were more likely to be paralyzed in their arms, more likely to suffer severe and permanent paralysis, more likely to require breathing assistance in iron lungs, and more likely to die than children naturally infected with polio.7
The so-called “Cutter Incident” led to the recall of the Cutter vaccine and the eventual replacement of the Salk IPV with the attenuated (weakened) live oral polio vaccine (OPV) developed by Albert Sabin, MD and introduced in 1963. (A modified inactivated Salk vaccine was re-introduced in the 1990s after the only cases of polio occurring in the U.S. were vaccine strain polio cases because live OPV can cause vaccine strain polio in the recipient or a close contact of a recently vaccinated person shedding live vaccine strain polio virus in body fluids.)8
But the fact that some improperly inactivated lots of the original polio vaccine paralyzed and killed American children was concealed from the public for a long time.
In their book Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and The Forgotten History, Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk write, “You may be wondering how this information was concealed from the public for nearly fifty years. Congressman Percy Priest ordered and chaired a full investigation of the vaccine controversy.”)9According to them, Congressman Priest, who represented the 6th District of Tennessee, admitted in 1956 that,
… in the previous year (1955) many responsible persons had felt that the public should be spared the ordeal of ‘knowledge about controversy.’ If word ever got out that the Public Health Service had actually done something damaging to the health of the American people, the consequences would b terrible… We felt that no lasting good could come to science or the public if the Public Health Services were discredited.”9
Two key points to note here. First, the problem with the Cutter-produced vaccine should have come as a surprise to the scientists and public health officials who were familiar with the development of the Salk IPV. According to Dr. Humphries and Bystrianyk:
The Salk invention was an injectable, supposedly formaldehyde-inactivated version of poliovirus vaccine. There were serious problems with the viral inactivation process that were known by insiders from the outset of the vaccine’s development.9
Unfortunately, whenever scientists involved in the vaccine’s development raised concerns that poliovirus had not been fully killed, they were “rapidly subdued.”9
As a result of ignoring the warnings by highly qualified scientists who repeatedly and publicly explained why and how the inactivation process was flawed from the beginning, the vaccine virus needlessly infected, paralyzed, and killed children and their household contacts.9
Secondly, Cutter Laboratories was not the only manufacturer of the the Salk IPV. Wyeth Laboratories also produced a defective Salk vaccine that caused paralysis. Other pharmaceutical companies are believed to have done so, as well. But only Cutter’s vaccine was recalled. This means that, potentially, tens of millions of doses of improperly inactivated “live” Salk vaccine were sold and injected into children in the U.S. and around the world until the “inactivated” Salk vaccine was replaced by the live oral Sabin vaccine in the early-1960s.
This may help explain, at least partially, why the cases of polio in the U.S. increased by 50% from 1957 to 1958, and by 80% between 1958 and 1959.10According to Bernard Greenberg, PhD, head of the Department of Biostatistics at the University of North Carolina School of Public Health:
In five New England states cases of polio roughly doubled after polio vaccine was introduced. Nevertheless in the midst of the polio panic of the 1950s, with pressure to find a magic bullet, statistics were manipulated by health authorities to give the quite the opposite impression.10
Keep in mind that these dramatic increases in polio following the introduction of the Salk IPV occurred shortly after the U.S. government had already significantly relaxed its guidelines for diagnosing polio. In 1954, the government redefined polio. I wrote about this other little detail of history that has been widely overlooked in my article “Polio Wasn’t Vanquished, It Was Redefined.”11Dr. Greenberg explained this classic example of government sleight of hand…
In order to qualify for classification as paralytic poliomyelitis, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for at least 60 days after the onset of the disease. Prior to 1954, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for only 24 hours. Laboratory confirmation and the presence of residual paralysis were not required. After 1954, residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days and again 50 to 70 days after the onset of the disease. This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer lasting paralysis.12
We can only imagine how much worse the official number of polio cases would have been during the second half of the 1950s had the same diagnosis standard continued to be followed, rather than arbitrarily changed in midstream. By any measure, the early Salk polio vaccine campaigns cannot be termed an unqualified “success.” Yet, since the story has been so repeatedly, utterly inaccurately told, our understanding of the history of the polio vaccine “miracle” is that it is one of the greatest scientific achievements of all time. And, as we have seen with the Sabin live oral polio vaccine that continues to cause vaccine strain polio cases around the world, there are big questions about how high the price has been—and will continue to be—for using that polio vaccine as well.
History is indeed a powerful thing. If you teach it wrong for more than half a century, it is hard to unteach, because a particular version of a story can become so ingrained in the public’s collective memory that few can accept that what we’ve come to believe to be an unquestioned scientific truth is, in fact, a myth.
And if that sacred cow is an illusion, then what else may we have gotten wrong along the way? Suddenly, mainstream vaccine science doesn’t feel so certain, so… scientific.
We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
I would very much like to see the studies, scientific peer reviewed studies, that show any vaccine has saved lives.
Um...Seriously?
Both Polio and Small Pox have virtually been wiped out due to the use of vaccines, saving millions of lives.
Unless I am seriously mistaken. In which case I would very much like to see the evidence showing that the vaccines have had no impact on these diseases.
The first episode of the "truth of Vaccines" deals with the small pox.
If I recall, Polio only surfaced after a certain vaccines(I don't remember which one) was administrated. Basically, polio was a consequence of the effect on the body of that other vaccine.
So basically, don't believe what Mystery Babylon's Health care system tells us.
I'm learning more and more about how I and our society at large are heavily deficient in Iodine. This is serious.
In that video above shows that even our staple food-- flour -- Bromide(toxic substance that our body doesn't need) is added that heavily compete with the receptors that iodine would activate.
If there's a food that has become the most unsafe for us to consume at the end time is surprisingly -- wheat flour!!!! That could be the reason why there's so much cancer in our Church. We stay away from meat but we are a heavy consumers of wheat flour (by which I now think it's way worst than meat) that is known to cause systemic inflammation besides heavily competing with our iodine receptors.
I'm definetly looking into that question more seriously relating to my advanced breast cancer, Asperger Syndrome(a "spectrum" type of autism caused by heavy metals found in vaccines) and my enlarged tyroid problem.
I would very much like to see the studies, scientific peer reviewed studies, that show any vaccine has saved lives.
Um...Seriously?
Both Polio and Small Pox have virtually been wiped out due to the use of vaccines, saving millions of lives.
Unless I am seriously mistaken. In which case I would very much like to see the evidence showing that the vaccines have had no impact on these diseases.
How does the request of seeing "scientific peer reviewed studies" and just making the observation that "Polio and Small Pox have virtually been wiped out" relate to each other?
Are you familiar with the scientific method?
For example, is this how science is done?: Can you prove to me that hitting two sticks together have no impact on keeping elephants from falling out of the sky?
Or: Cell phones have increased in use. There's virtually no Polio and Small Pox. Therefore, cell phones have wiped out Polio and Small Pox.
That's not how science is done!
If you should wish to see how vaccines have had an impact on causing disease (or death!), search the CDC government website showing such "impacts".
It takes a little time to figure out, but here's some suggestions to get you started. In the section "1. Organize table layout:", change "Symptoms" to "Onset interval" in Event characteristics.
Scroll down to the section "5. Select other event characteristics" and select death and life threatening (hold down the control key when selecting an additional option)
Click on the "Send" button.
Yes, looking at a report isn't "science" either, but doesn't it warrant further investigation than just casually noticing a high correlation between cell phones and polio?
The CDC just removed the notice two months ago from their website regarding vaccine-derived poliovirus type 1 (VDPV1) in Laos. See here for that: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/polio-laos. You can still find some of the details from the WHO page here: http://www.who.int/csr/don/25-february-2016-polio-lao/en/. I would recommend that you not wait too long to read it. Things don't stay online forever, especially when they represent "inconvenient truths."
That's good. Now there's something to show the deniers when they say vaccines have never caused disease, or you can't catch disease from those vaccinated. Those urging forced injections of foreign material need to see that vaccinations are what endangers others.
(Feels odd that I'm in agreement with you and Elle on something )
The CDC just removed the notice two months ago from their website regarding vaccine-derived poliovirus type 1 (VDPV1) in Laos. See here for that: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/polio-laos. You can still find some of the details from the WHO page here: http://www.who.int/csr/don/25-february-2016-polio-lao/en/. I would recommend that you not wait too long to read it. Things don't stay online forever, especially when they represent "inconvenient truths."
That's good. Now there's something to show the deniers when they say vaccines have never caused disease, or you can't catch disease from those vaccinated. Those urging forced injections of foreign material need to see that vaccinations are what endangers others.
(Feels odd that I'm in agreement with you and Elle on something )
I was shocked when I learned that polio was not eradicated by the vaccine!
LEGAL NOTICE: The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine, as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church from the local church level to the General Conference level.
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland or any of its subsidiaries.
"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH, INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
That's just my viewpoint and I will probably get slammed for it. I don't care. I have a right to voice my opinion. ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon}
