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Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38923
11/06/01 10:20 PM
11/06/01 10:20 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
This thread is reserved for the purposes of posting about some of the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church.

What are some of their beliefs?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38924
11/07/01 02:50 AM
11/07/01 02:50 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Thanks for opening this topic up Daryl.

I have been studying this group for quite some time, as I have someone in my family who is a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I believe that posting this material will be helpful to anyone browsing through this forum, who may be interested in sorting it all out a bit.

I am currently studying with a Jehovah's Witness elder & wife from a local Kingdom Hall, mostly for the purpose of getting my facts about their beliefs straight too, as that is important.

I will post in small increments, so as to not overload anyone with too long of a post. I am enclosing the material just as it is being presented to the people I am studying with, and only minor editing to protect privacy.

To Our Jehovah’s Witness Friends:

I am hoping you can tell me if I have correctly represented the Jehovah’s Witness’ viewpoints on this subject...as I mentioned, I am doing a lot of study on the subject of who God is because I have a brother who is a Jehovah’s Witness, and I am trying to discern exactly what they believe…In this enclosed study, I have compared what they believe, (as I understand it); to what I believe, as a Seventh Day Adventist, with the hope of any Bible clarifications you could offer on the many points I have raised.

I realize it may take some time to go through it all but I am sincere in my quest. You are certainly welcome to share this document with any of your Kingdom Hall members who may also be willing and able to reply to such material, that is a little more in depth than the average.

Part One: “Jesus, The Son Of God.”

I will do within this study a few brief comparisons with the NWT, using some of the KJV texts which I will be referring to in this study. I do not agree with this translation of the Bible; but many of the ideas which contradict the Trinity doctrine; I think, come from the NWT way of thinking. This will be an important line of study both for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and any others who believe that Jesus was/is a created being.

I hope and pray that you won’t take any of this personally; and that we can just take it theologically! I really would like to look into all this material more with you. I think that the general body of believers of Jehovah’s Witnesses who teach that Jesus was a created being; that He was not “eternal” or “co-eternal,” are very sincere people; and they really love God. The main earmark of a true Christian is a loving and lovable Christian! I have certainly experienced that from some people who teach that Jesus was only a created being.

I have the expectation that whatever you say in reply to this study, will be your theological opinion; not a personal opinion about me. I don’t have any concerns about being scrutinized, or critisized in any Biblical way. The Bible says: “For we can do nothing against the Truth; but for the Truth.” (2 Cor.13:8). Truth has nothing to fear from an honest examination. In explaining your points to me, I have no problem with being referred to as “Christendom,” etc. My family member refers to me as that now. I am most interested in what the Bible has to say on who Jesus is, and what He should mean to Christians today. Anyone who can discuss this topic with me is welcome.

I am going to use a number of Jehovah’s Witness publications as reference points in this study because they describe most forcefully, what I consider to be the falsehoods about Jesus being a created being, rather than being “co-eternal.”. Please refer to the following list of abbreviations for JW publications as I refer to them in this article:

1/ LTG - Let God Be True
2/ PL - From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained
3/ LKC - Let Your Kingdom Come
4/ LF - You Can Live Forever In Paradise On Earth
5/ T - The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life
6/ NWT - New World Translation Of The Holy Scriptures
7/ JW - Jehovah’s Witness
8/ WT - Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society

I will be happy to address any and all questions/concerns you may have as you sift through this study. Unless otherwise noted, I will use the KJV version throughout this study. An interesting note at this point would be to say that even if you were to use the New World Translation of the Bible, which has been changed to reflect certain view points, you could prove that Jesus was eternal and that He was not a created being. This; I believe, will come out in my enclosed study notes.

I will look forward to this as being the beginning of a mutually beneficial study of God’s Word; leading to a closer walk with Him; and to increased harmony between what we can collectively believe, in common, and what we should witness about Jesus, the Son Of God.

Part Two: Jesus: The Indispensable Man

Acts 4:12 - “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven, given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Whoever the person is that this text is referring to; they must be indispensable...The Bible, in any language, and in every translation tells us that we are saved by a name.

What Is This Saving Name?

(Mat.1:21). “And thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.” (KJV). “She will give birth to a son; and you must call his name Jesus, for He will save his people from their sins.” (NWT). Acts 4:12, in any version of the Bible, is referring to “Jesus Christ, the Nazarene,” (NWT), that is mentioned in Acts 4:10.

------------------
"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38925
11/09/01 09:26 AM
11/09/01 09:26 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

PART THREE: But What Does This Name Of Jesus Mean?

The name “Jesus” in the New Testament is exactly the same as the name “Joshua” in the Old Testament. In both cases, this name means “Jehovah, the Savior.” This is very fitting, since Jesus, the Son of God, would obviously have to have the same name as His Father. It’s a family name. As Jesus puts it: “...We are one...” (Jo.17:22).

Jesus, the Son of God is specifically identified throughout the Bible as Jehovah; and as we have just noted, God the Father has the same name as His Son: Clearly, the name “Jehovah,” is not just limited to “God the Father,” in the Bible. One has to read each verse in proper, intended context to see what Person the name of “Jehovah” in a given verse would be referring to:

Heb.1:1-2: As the Son of God, Jesus has the name of the Father. “God, who at sundry times, and in diverse manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds.”

Jesus created the world in partnership with the Father. As Jehovah the Father said: “Let US make man in our own image.” What did He mean by “US?” and “OUR?” (Gen.1:26, 9:6, Jo.14:23).

Today, God has “spoken unto us by His Son.” Notice that BOTH God and His Son are mentioned here. Note the last two phrases again: “Whom He hath appointed Heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds.” (Heb.1:1-2). It is clear from this that God the Father made the worlds by His Son. Two are mentioned here. Jesus created, but He Himself was not created.

The Bible says that Jesus was “made after the power of an endless life;.” (Heb.7:16), that is, He is eternal in nature, and was not created. This verse is in the context of an appointment, or designated role, rather than being in a “made” role, as in the context of being “created.” It is obvious from the Bible context of Heb.7:16, (and many other places), that the text is definitely referring to Jesus, as we read in a verse following: “by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.” (Heb.7:22). Verse 22 was referring to verse 16 here, in any Bible translation.

Many places in the Bible specifically mention Jesus as Jehovah, which means: “Jehovah is the Savior.”

1/ John the Baptist would prepare the way of Jehovah: Isa.40:3 - “Prepare ye the way of the Lord...” [“Jehovah,” or “the existing One”].

And as we can see; John the Baptist did prepare the way for the 1st coming of Jesus:

Mat.3:1-3, Luke 1:76 “In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying: ‘Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ For this is he that was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying: ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness - prepare ye the way of the Lord, make His paths straight.’” And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways.’”

2/ Isaiah prophesied that Jehovah would be a Stone of stumbling, and a Rock of defense.
Isa.8:13-14, 28:16. (See also Ps.118:22). In Luke 20:17-18, Jesus applies this prophecy to Himself.

3/ Isa.44:6, and 48:12 refer to Jehovah as “the first and the last,” but, the book of Revelation applies this to the Son. Rev.1:17-18 tells us that Jesus is “the first and the last, I am He that liveth and was dead...” God the Father was never dead was He?

4/ Isa.40:10 tells us that Jehovah will come, and “His reward is with Him.” In Rev.22;12, Jesus applies this to Himself when He says: “And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with Me...”

5/ Speaking of Jehovah, the prophet Isaiah says: “I am God, and there is none else,” and “that unto me shall every knee bow, and every tongue shall swear.” (Isa.45:22-23).

Atleast twice in His writings the divinely inspired Apostle Paul applies this prophecy to Jesus: Rom.14:10-12, Phil.2:10-11.

6/ Jehovah is the Judge. (Joel 3:12). It is Jesus that will execute judgment: Mat.25:31-32, Jo.5:27).

7/ Jehovah will raise the dead: (1 Sam.2:6). It is made clear that CHRIST HIMSELF will call the dead from their graves. (Jo.11:25).

NOTE: Jesus was the great “I Am,” of the Old Testament. When Moses asked for His name, Jesus said: “I Am that I Am...Thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent Me unto you.” (Ex.3:14).

Jesus also said to the Pharisees: “Before Abraham was; I AM.” Jo.8:58.

Other “I AM” statements of Jesus are found in the following texts:

“I AM the bread of life:” Jo.6:35

“I AM he:” Jo.4:26

“I AM the Light of the world:” Jo.8:12

“I AM the door:” Jo.10:9

“I AM the good Shepherd:” Jo.10:11

“I AM the resurrection and the life:” Jo.1:25
Today, we can rest in the fact that the identity of The Son Of God remains intact. “We have this Hope!”

This study will uncover the exciting Bible Truth about how Jesus had two natures, and this will explain all common objections to Him being “co-eternal” with the Father.

------------------
"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38926
11/10/01 03:40 AM
11/10/01 03:40 AM
R
Rose  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 10
St. Helena, Ca. USA
Great study, David!

I have a lot of contact with Jehovah Witnesses, and I try to discuss what we have in common with them, but the disagreement about their view of the nature of Christ as a "lesser God" than Jehovah is where I can't agree.

They do agree the dead "sleep" and the body and soul together make up a living being-but they believe there will be a second chance for unbelievers. They believe that the wicked will be destroyed, not tortured forever in hell.


They believe the "law" was done away with in Christ, and the days of creation were 7000 years long.

Another point;
The JW's have had a lot of important court cases for religious liberty in the US..
They do not salute the US flag, because they understand it's an act of worship. You have to respect them for their standing for what they believe.

(The blood transfusion thing I just don't get, though)

[This message has been edited by Rose (edited November 09, 2001).]


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38927
11/10/01 12:01 PM
11/10/01 12:01 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Their doctrine isn't the only second chance doctrine as the doctrine of the Secret Rapture is a second chance doctrine held by more than one Christian denomination.

That is another topic within this forum.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38928
11/10/01 05:32 PM
11/10/01 05:32 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Hello Rose

Glad you are enjoying the study. There is lots more to come.

You make a goe point that the JW denomination has some strengths, that we can applaud; and I believe Daryl has made a good point as well.

After this study is done; I will present some study notes on the 1914 date they have as a prophetic time line...so we will be busy in this thread for quite a while.

------------------
"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38929
11/10/01 07:17 PM
11/10/01 07:17 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
We also had a couple of JWs in our home each week for several weeks until they finally decided they were getting nowhere with us, therefore, this study will be interesting.

I also have a couple of interesting things to share here which I will try and remember to do especially if nobody else shares it first.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited November 10, 2001).]


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38930
11/11/01 03:33 AM
11/11/01 03:33 AM
R
Rose  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 10
St. Helena, Ca. USA
Daryl & David,

I will look forward to learning more on this topic-

I have read on the web on an ex-witness site that Adventists and JW's are both descended from the Millerite movement of 1844, which I wasn't aware of- is that a true statement? Here's the link:
http://www.cftf.com/online/1998AprJunp12.html


[This message has been edited by Rose (edited November 10, 2001).]


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38931
11/11/01 03:46 AM
11/11/01 03:46 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Seems to me I heard that also, however, I don't recall seeing it in writing.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Some Beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church #38932
11/11/01 06:47 AM
11/11/01 06:47 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Yes. The JW's did originate from there. I used to have an old book that they published, where one of their founders, "Russel," had plagiarized some writings of Ellen G White, and he made out like he was the one who had something called "William Miller's Dream."

When I confronted the JW elders about this, they would not admit to this book as being representative of what they currently believed, and today, if you were to ask a JW elder about this; they would likely deny it.

I will see if I can get the book, or the name of the book, and it's page number, from a friend in another province who has the book. But the JW denomination has tried really hard to cover up this book; and for the most part, have been successful.

------------------
"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler


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