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Re: The Gospel According To John #41371
02/27/03 02:07 PM
02/27/03 02:07 PM
Daryl  Offline
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What does baptizing with water mean in the same verse?

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Re: The Gospel According To John #41372
02/28/03 05:18 PM
02/28/03 05:18 PM
Avalee  Offline
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John was preaching to the people on repentence and part of that was being baptized for remission of their sins. Of course Jesus was not being baptized for repentence of any sins...as he was sinless....He was baptized as an example for us.

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Re: The Gospel According To John #41373
02/28/03 07:11 PM
02/28/03 07:11 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Then, Avalee, would that mean that water baptism wasn't a New Testament concept?

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Re: The Gospel According To John #41374
03/18/03 08:45 PM
03/18/03 08:45 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Seeing that I didn't receive an answer to my question from Avalee, I will ask it again to anybody reading this. [Smile]

Then, anybody, would that mean that water baptism wasn't a New Testament concept?

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Re: The Gospel According To John #41375
04/11/03 12:13 AM
04/11/03 12:13 AM
Daryl  Offline
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I guess nobody is going to answer my question, therefore, I will answer it by saying that it is my understanding that water baptism by immersion that John the Baptist was doing was an Old Testament Bible doctrine. The trouble is, I can't find anything in the Old Testament to back this up.

Does anybody know anything about this?

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Re: The Gospel According To John [Re: Daryl] #81573
11/25/06 01:04 AM
11/25/06 01:04 AM
Daryl  Offline
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Over three years ago since my last post on this topic.

Can anybody answer the question in my previous post?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: The Gospel According To John [Re: Daryl] #81602
11/25/06 04:14 AM
11/25/06 04:14 AM
charis  Offline
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I was told that water immersion is related to the ancient Jewish tradition of the Mikveh laws followed in both the OT and NT. It was a process of spiritual purification and cleansing. It must have meant something to the Jewish population of John's time.

The Jewish Encyclopedia states:

Quote:
The washing of the whole body is the form of Ablution most frequently ordained in Scripture, and for the greatest number of causes. According to rabbinical interpretation, this is only valid when performed by immersion, either in a natural fountain or stream or in a properly constructed mi?weh, or ritual bath, containing at least forty seahs (about one hundred and twenty gallons) of water (see Baths).

The following are the cases in which the Mosaic Law requires immersion of the whole body, the object being either purification or consecration:

(a) No leper or unclean person of the seed of Aaron could eat of holy flesh until he had washed his whole body in water (Lev. xxii. 4-6).

(b) When a leper was healed of his leprosy, he shaved off his hair, offered up the prescribed sacrifices, washed his clothing, bathed his person in water, and became clean (Lev. xiv. 8, 9).

(c) Any person who came into contact with the body of, or with articles of furniture used by, a person having an unclean issue (), or with any article used by him, was obliged to wash both his body and his garments, and was unclean for a whole day (Lev. xv. 5-10).

(d) On the Day of Atonement the high priest, after sending off the scapegoat (see Azazel), was obliged to wash his whole body in water in a holy place. The same duty devolved upon the man who took away the goat and upon him who burned the ox and the goat of the sin-offering; and they were also required to wash their garments (Lev. xvi. 24, 26, 28). According to the Talmud, on the Day of Atonement the high priest immersed his whole person five times and washed his hands and feet ten times (Mishnah, Yoma, iii. 3).

(e) A sufferer from an unclean issue to be clean required immersion of the whole person (Lev. xv. 16, 18).

(f) Whoever touched a menstruous woman, or any article used by her, required immersion of the whole person (Lev. xv. 19-27).

(g) A native Israelite or a proselyte eating unclean flesh of a beast which had died of itself, or had been torn, became thereby unclean for a day, and was obliged to wash his whole body (Lev. xvii. 15).

(h) The priest who tended the red heifer, itself intended as a rite of purification, became unclean for a day and was obliged to wash his whole body (Num. xix. 7, 8).

(i) Whoever came into contact with a corpse or a grave was unclean for seven days. On the third and seventh days he was sprinkled with water in which ashes from the burnt carcass of the red heifer had been dissolved. On the seventh day he washed his whole body and his garments in water and became clean (Num. xix. 19).

(j) Among the ceremonies at the installation of priests was the washing of the whole body (Ex. xxix. 4, xl. 12).

(k) The Levites were purified by having water of the sin-offering sprinkled upon them (Num. viii. 15).

(l) A menstruous woman requires immersion, as is shown by II Sam. xi. 2, 4, and the rabbinical interpretation of Num. xxxi. 23.

Most of the above purifications, with the exception of the last, are in abeyance at the present time, it being impossible, in the judgment of rabbinical authorities, to observe them properly in the dispersion. The immersions for the sake of ritual purity at the festivals are, however, still observed by the pious. The Karaites follow all the laws of purity. The numerous sects of the ?asidim are especially scrupulous in their ablutions. A Gentile wishing to become a proselyte must also immerse his whole body. This ceremony is, no doubt, historically allied to Baptism, which is thought by modern authorities to have originated among the Essenes, who were very scrupulous respecting ablutions, and in the observance of the rules of purity
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=338&letter=A#781


One thing God has spoken,
two things have I heard:
that you, O God, are strong.
And that you, O God, are loving.

~ Psalms 62:11,12 ~
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Re: The Gospel According To John [Re: charis] #81635
11/25/06 09:40 PM
11/25/06 09:40 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Come to think of it, Naaman dipped himself in the water seven times and was clean.

Quote:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall come to you, and you shall be clean.

11 But Naaman was angry, and went away. And he said, Behold, I said within myself, He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of Jehovah his God, and strike his hand over the place and recover the leper.

12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? May I not wash in them, and be clean? And he turned and went away in a rage.

13 And his servants came near and spoke to him and said, My father, if the prophet had told you to do a great thing, would you not have done it? How much rather then, when he says to you, Wash and be clean?

14 And he went down and dipped seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God. And his flesh came again like the flesh of a little boy, and he was clean.


How does one dip himself? By completely immersing himself.

This was a form of baptism from which came cleansing. In the case of Namaan, it was cleansing from leprosy.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: The Gospel According To John [Re: Daryl] #84997
02/07/07 05:58 PM
02/07/07 05:58 PM
Darius  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
I find it interesting that nowhere in the NT does it say that we should be baptized, just as Naaman dipped himself, yet the authoritive statement can be made that this was a form of baptism. Why do we have to try so hard to find connections that are not there? This kind of effort usually accompanies a very weak position.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: The Gospel According To John [Re: Daryl] #185165
09/20/17 05:51 AM
09/20/17 05:51 AM
dedication  Offline
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Posts: 6,411
Canada
Though this thread was begun several years ago, it is discussing one of my favorite books of the Bible.
Sadly it stopped back then -- but we can continue.


Here are the last few texts covered:

John 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.
1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me comes a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost.
1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


This is a testimony by John the Baptist, after the baptism of Jesus.
Twice the Baptist exclaims, "I knew Him not".

I don't think he means that he never knew Jesus as a human being, before this. They were cousins and their mother's appreciated each other's company. So he probably had met Jesus before in a more casual, family type of setting.

However, this was different -- John received a divine revelation of Who Jesus really was. With absolute certainty, and in awe of the reality, John realizes -- this is HE, the Messiah! Though He was born after me, yet He is the "I AM" who was God, and was with God from the beginning, and that has come down from heaven to manifest God to Israel! He is the Lamb of God come to save us from sin.

John the Baptists announcement wasn't just an announcement, it was filled with the power of conviction, a realization of the awesome reality of Who Jesus really was. The Baptist spoke by revelation, thoughts that were greater than he himself fully understood.

I think we ourselves still fail to really comprehend the full meaning of the verses here in John chapter one.
Of all the gospels, this one brings out the reality that our Creator, the One Who shared the glory of the Godhead with the Father, came down to this world and walked as a man among us. Took our sins, and died that we might live.


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