Another way to ask this is, What Is The Truth About The "Trinity"?

There was a time when we didn't believe in the Godhead, or Trinity, however, we seemed to have moved from not beleiver in it, to believing in it, therefore, I think it would be good for us to look at what the Bible says about this, and if and how the writings of Ellen White relates to this.

So I ask again, [b]What Is The Truth About The "Godhead" or The "Trinity"?

Is Godhead, the biblical word the same in meaning as Trinity?

S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7A, page 441, paragraph 9
Chapter Title: Christ's Place in the Godhead
III. Three Persons in the Godhead
There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Evangelism, p. 615.

This issue has always confused me and I guess it relates to what our definition of God is.

If God has always existed, then Jesus cannot be God because he was created:

“13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” Col 1


“22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, 31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.” Pro 8

It is very difficult and impossible to try and figure out who God is by our finite minds, but in the Bible God tells us in 1 John 4:8

quote:

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1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

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I have to disagree with you Lobo on stating that Christ was a 'created' being, but He was made human when He was born on earth, but thats about it. Here is a verse I found:

John 8:58

quote:

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John 8
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

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God Bless,
Will

Will, you need to read the texts I post again. They both literally say that Jesus was created. Deny all you want, but that I what they say.

Also, the “I am” quote does fit because if you read those texts again you will see that Jesus was created before the world, which would be before Adam. So before the world and Adam, “I am”.

So all preconceived ideas aside, scripture indicates that Jesus was created before anything. Then, Jesus created the world and was “the Lord” mentioned though history.

Sorry Lobo.. Christ wasn't created.. You need to understand that since He was raised from the dead of course He is the firstborn. The Bible does not contradict itself.

quote:

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Revelation 1:8
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

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God Bless,
Will

Lobo,

If you are serious in what you have posted, and are serious that you believe Jesus Christ is a created being, you have just alienated yourself from practically all of Christianity, as to my understanding, only the Jehovah Witnesses agree with you.

I don't mind you posting this, if that is what you truly believe, however, if you don't really believe what you are posting yourself, then I think in all fairness to this discussion you need to tell us here before we go any further.

Daryl, if you would read my first post on this topic I stated “This issue has always confused me and I guess it relates to what our definition of God is”.

So why are you busting my chops about something I posted when I already stated it is confusing to me, which means I’m not sure. This is why I mentioned before that you seem to be not without bias when you address posts on this forum. I literally state I don’t know and still I’m harassed.

So again, I don’t know! I’m looking for help here.

I believe scripture emphatically and support wholeheartedly what it states. That is why I posted the text I did.

How do you or others explain these texts? I can’t?

And why does it exclude me from Christianity if I say accept at face value what these texts are saying? Can we not serve a God who was created?

Doesn’t the fact that we call Jesus the “son” mean that he is lesser to some extent than God the father, or that he came from God? In fact, how can he be God’s son unless he was created?

Could God the father not create another God, Jesus? Does that change anything in terms of our allegiance to Jesus as our savior? I don’t think so.

I’m looking for answers here. I just can’t ignore scripture in favor of my own preconceived ideas like others do because then the Holy Spirit cannot reach me.

Hi Lobo,
We are all here to learn.

In the following verses there is a little more:

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16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

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In verse 16 we can see that He wasn't created since by Him were all things created. Notice it did not say some things, or things after He was born, but by Him were all things created.

There are many verses in the Bible that use this phrase, and its uses may vary, so since we are speaking of Jesus Christ the Son of God who is also God the form (grammatically speaking) of how it is used needs to be taken into consideration.

Revelation 1:5 uses the same phrase:

quote:

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Revelation 1:5
5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

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This has to be the truest sense of the applicable term to the divine nature of Jesus Christ. The title of the thread is a good topic to study, but it is difficult because we as humans are trying to comprehend and understand God, and I know that we will have eternity to discuss such deep things with God. I hope this sheds some light Lobo, and to anyone else.

God Bless,
Will

Lobo, it is true that some of the texts referring to Jesus' preexistence do not necessarily prove He is eternal, that is, without beginning and without end. However, the texts identifying Him as God absolutely imply His eternal nature and make up. It makes sense that the texts referring to His incarnation and resurrection imply a beginning point. But we shouldn't use these passages to understand His eternal deity.

Do you see what I mean?