Sorry Will, that’s not what happens when a branch is grafted, look it up. Paul also knew this or he would not have used the analogy of grating.

Just because you are ignorant about Paul’s analogy and how grafting branches actually works, doesn’t change it’s meaning.

Sheesh.. a botanist or horticulture expert Iam not, and he only thing I can recall that was grafted was a grapefruit branch onto an orange tree and it bore some tasty fruit I'll look up what happens when a graft occurrs especially in trees.

God Bless,
Will

Lobo, from what I know about grafting, two trees are combined to form one new tree. The parent tree provides nourishment to the grafted branch which in turns produces a new kind of fruit. For all practical purposes the two trees become one new tree. But technically the trees never do lose their individuality.

Mike, it’s my understanding that the grafted branch only produces new fruit (or different fruit) if it is cross-pollinated. The grafting only allows it to receive nutrients but doesn’t change what it is genetically designed to produce.

In any case, the point is that neither the new branch or the old tree lose their individuality, as you have stated.

So the point would still be valid that Gentiles and Jews combine to be the children of promise, but they retain their individuality as gentiles or Jews. So in this larger group’s Jews remain Jews and gentiles remain gentiles.

I believe the new entity that was formed when God united the Jews and Gentiles is the Church of Christ. Yes, each one retains their original ethnic heritage but when we become baptized members of the Church we become Christians which I believe transcends our original ethnicity. More than anything we are Christians - not Jews, Gentiles, Americans, Canadians, etc.

Galatians
3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians
3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

Which brings us back to our original question - Is "Israel", especially in the Revelation, exclusively the literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? or is it faithful church members regardless of their ethnic background?

Hi Lobo,
I agree with you Lobo. The Bible states that this is what makes up the children of the promise unless I am mistaken which are the believers in Christ which encompasses Jews and Gentiles as we are all one i.e. the faithful servants of God

God Bless,
Will

Good Will, but does that mean then that we loose our distinctions as Jews or gentiles? I would say No. That is why the saved Jews are called the “remnant” and the saved gentiles are called the great multitude, but we are all the children of promise.

But if God is no respector of persons why would He make a distinction between Jews and Gentiles at the end of time?

That's true Mike. I would like to add that it is important to note that the only distinction that will be noticeable is the difference between the faithful servants of God who will be saved, and the wicked.

quote:

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Matthew 7:20
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

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God Bless,
Will

No respecter of person related to salvation, yes. But related to distinction, no.

Because God choose Israel out of all the nations on earth, that fact alone shows he is a respecter of persons to some extent or He would not have singled out anyone at anytime.

So God saying, “here is a remnant of my original chosen people” as a trophy or a way of vindicating himself for choosing Israel in the first place, is consistent with what he has done in the past and does not mean he favors them as far as salvation goes.

Also, as we have discussed on the other thread, God will also make a distinction between lost gentiles and lost Israel, meaning Israel will be singled out and punished accordingly (Babylon). This is consistent with (Romans 2:9).

So to vindicate himself and to make unbelieving Israel an example, God will single out Israel.