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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7143
10/30/05 06:40 PM
10/30/05 06:40 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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But the Spirit of Prophesy tells us ALL that we can know about God was revealed in the life and character of His Son in His humanity. So what you're saying cannot be true, if the statement from the Spirit of Prophesy is true, right?
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7144
10/31/05 03:36 PM
10/31/05 03:36 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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No. I have shared quote after quote where the SOP clearly describes Jesus doing things He didn't do while He walked this planet as a human being. The quotes you posted do not contradict mine. The obvious answer to this apparent dilemma is not to assume your quotes trump mine - but, rather, they compliment one another. Exactly how they do this is clear to me. But your view of it is very much different mine. You believe you are spot on and that I am dead wrong.
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7145
11/01/05 04:41 AM
11/01/05 04:41 AM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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If the Scriptures say that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, and you don't believe that, this isn't a case of one set of quotes trumping another, but of your not believing the principle that Christ does not change.
In the examples you gave of Christ apparently acting differently, the obvious answer is that He is only apparently acting differently, but not actually. Either that or the statements are false which say otherwise.
I'm trying to get you to see this simple logic. There is a premise
1)a)Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever b)ALL that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son
and a conclusion
2)It's not possible to come up with an example of Jesus acting differently than the premises in 1)a) and 1)b) without disproving the premises.
So by coming up with supposed counterexamples, you're attempting to do something impossible. If the principles are true, a counterexample is not possible. That's the point I've been driving at regarding the arguments I've presented. If the arguments are not sound, you should be able to point to either a premise or inference which is not correct. So far you haven't mentioned anything.
Still waiting,
Tom
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7146
11/01/05 07:35 PM
11/01/05 07:35 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Tom, the Bible and the SOP both make it abundantly clear that Jesus punished and destroyed millions of unsaved sinners by causing a worldwide flood. Please read the initial post of this thread.
You believe Jesus simply stopped holding back the inevitable forces of nature. But you have yet to demonstrate Jesus caused or permitted a worldwide flood during His earthly sojourn.
Did Jesus cause or permit the forces of nature to kill millions in a wolrdwide flood when He was on Earth?
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7147
11/01/05 09:13 PM
11/01/05 09:13 PM
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Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Lawrence, Kansas
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MM: As I stated, I am anxious to answer your questions in more detail, but I am waiting for you to address the question I have been asking you before I do so. My question is, do you believe the following argument is sound?
Given: a)Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever b)ALL that we can know of God was revealed in the character of His life and Son
Then it follows that: c)Jesus Christ has never acted, nor will He in the future, act materially different than He did while on earth.
If this argument is not sound, then either the premises are false, or the conclusion does not logically follow from the premises. Which is it, MM? If the argument IS sound, then you're wasting your time trying to come up with a counter example.
A brief answer to your question is that Jesus did do the things you are referencing, in principle, during His life on earth (although your method of phrasing the question I would say is misleading).
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7148
11/02/05 05:11 PM
11/02/05 05:11 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I believe your equation applies to the mission of Jesus while He was on Earth. He did not come to judge or damn sinners. Rather, He came to make salvation available to us. I do not believe your formula takes into account everything Jesus has done or will do before and after His Earthly mission. quote: A brief answer to your question is that Jesus did do the things you are referencing, in principle, during His life on earth (although your method of phrasing the question I would say is misleading).
I cannot think of anything Jesus did while on Earth that even remotely compares to the Flood. Yes, He cursed a tree and drove people out of the temple, but these do not come close to the Flood. The principles are totally different.
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7149
11/02/05 07:17 PM
11/02/05 07:17 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The two statements I have been using as premises are:
a)Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. b)All that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son (on earth).
I agree with you that these statements are in reference to Christ's ministry on earth.
It appears to me that you are contradicting the above premises by your assertion that Christ did not do anything even remotely like the flood while here on earth.
Assuming for the sake of discussion that you are correct, and Christ didn't do anything remotely like the flood while here on earth, can you explain how your assertion is not contradicting statements a) and b) above?
What I believe is that Jesus did not act differently in principle from how God, or Christ Himself, acts at any other time, whether before or after Christ's coming. My proof of this are the statements a) and b) above.
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7150
11/03/05 03:17 PM
11/03/05 03:17 PM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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What I am saying is that Jesus hasn't used a Flood to depopulate the Earth since the first time He did it. In fact, the rainbow is a sign He will never do it again. So, yes, your formula does not account for the Flood.
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7151
11/03/05 03:45 PM
11/03/05 03:45 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The two statements I have been using as premises are:
a)Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. b)All that we can know of God was revealed in the life and character of His Son (on earth).
It appears to me that you are contradicting the above premises by your assertion that Christ did not do anything even remotely like the flood while here on earth.
Assuming for the sake of discussion that you are correct, and Christ didn't do anything remotely like the flood while here on earth, can you explain how your assertion is not contradicting statements a) and b) above?
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Re: The Arsenals of God's Wrath - An Inspired Account
#7152
11/04/05 04:14 AM
11/04/05 04:14 AM
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OP
SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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quote: ... your formula does not account for the Flood.
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