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Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? #85591
02/18/07 11:47 PM
02/18/07 11:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why?

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: Mountain Man] #85601
02/19/07 03:28 AM
02/19/07 03:28 AM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
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God is not interested in revealing sinful habits.
He is interested in revealing to us his glory.

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: John Boskovic] #85610
02/19/07 02:25 PM
02/19/07 02:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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John, in light of the title of this thread, can I assume, then, that you believe God never reveals to us any of our sinful habits?

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: Mountain Man] #85611
02/19/07 02:33 PM
02/19/07 02:33 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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The following inspired insights teach us that the Holy Spirit reveals to us, during the long "patient, protracted process" (DA 172) of conversion, before we experience the miracle of rebirth, "every" one of our defective cultivated traits of character. Not one sinful habit is overlooked to be revealed after we are born again.

Quote:
We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. Then we shall know that our own righteousness is indeed as filthy rags, and that the blood of Christ alone can cleanse us from the defilement of sin, and renew our hearts in His own likeness. {SC 28.3}

One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: Mountain Man] #85612
02/19/07 02:38 PM
02/19/07 02:38 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Admittedly, though, this experience is "rare". Many, "so many", people do not complete the process of conversion. The following quote bears this out.

Quote:
The new birth is a rare experience in this age of the world. This is the reason why there are so many perplexities in the churches. Many, so many, who assume the name of Christ are unsanctified and unholy. They have been baptized, but they were buried alive. Self did not die, and therefore they did not rise to newness of life in Christ (MS 148, 1897). {6BC 1075.7}

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: Mountain Man] #85613
02/19/07 02:47 PM
02/19/07 02:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Again, the following quotes make it clear that we are not born again with certain sinful habits in tact, with certain cultivated defective traits of character God is waiting to reveal to us at some later date.

Quote:
Communion with God imparts to the soul an intimate knowledge of His will. But many who profess the faith know not what true conversion is. They have no experience in communion with the Father through Jesus Christ, and have never felt the power of divine grace to sanctify the heart. Praying and sinning, sinning and praying, their lives are full of malice, deceit, envy, jealousy, and self-love. The prayers of this class are an abomination to God. (4T 534)

The old nature, born of blood and the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The old ways, the hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up; for grace is not inherited. The new birth consists in having new motives, new tastes, new tendencies. Those who are begotten unto a new life by the Holy Spirit, have become partakers of the divine nature, and in all their habits and practices they will give evidence of their relationship to Christ. When men who claim to be Christians retain all their natural defects of character and disposition, in what does their position differ from that of the worldling? They do not appreciate the truth as a sanctifier, a refiner. They have not been born again. (6 BC 1101)

True conversion is a radical change. The very drift of the mind and bent of the heart should be turned and life become new again in Christ. (4T 17)

That which was objectionable in the character is purified from the soul by the love of Jesus. All selfishness is expelled, all envy, all evil-speaking is rooted out, and a radical transformation is wrought in the heart. (RH 7-22-1890)

Many who profess to follow Christ have not genuine religion. They do not reveal in their lives the fruit of true conversion. They are controlled by the same habits, the same spirit of fault-finding and selfishness, which controlled them before they accepted Christ. No one can enter the city of God who has not a knowledge of genuine conversion. In true conversion the soul is born again. A new spirit takes possession of the temple of the soul. A new life begins. Christ is revealed in the character. The spirit of a new life works within. (RH 7-30-1901)

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: Mountain Man] #85614
02/19/07 03:44 PM
02/19/07 03:44 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Posts: 3,965
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It could be noted that there are two ways to reveal dust in the corner. Either one brings out the dust with everything that implies, or one brings light to the corner. Either way the dust is revealed.

I think Johns point can be restated as: God is more interested in lighting a candle than in cursing the darkness.

I also think this is the point made in SC 29.1 quoted by you above.


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: vastergotland] #85615
02/19/07 04:44 PM
02/19/07 04:44 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
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Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. (Rom 7.13)

Just here is a point on which many may err, and hence they fail of receiving the help that Christ desires to give them. They think that they cannot come to Christ unless they first repent, and that repentance prepares for the forgiveness of their sins. It is true that repentance does precede the forgiveness of sins; for it is only the broken and contrite heart that will feel the need of a Saviour. But must the sinner wait till he has repented before he can come to Jesus? Is repentance to be made an obstacle between the sinner and the Saviour? {SC 26.1}
The Bible does not teach that the sinner must repent before he can heed the invitation of Christ, "Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28. It is the virtue that goes forth from Christ, that leads to genuine repentance. Peter made the matter clear in his statement to the Israelites when he said, "Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." Acts 5:31. We can no more repent without the Spirit of Christ to awaken the conscience than we can be pardoned without Christ. {SC 26.2}
Christ is the source of every right impulse. He is the only one that can implant in the heart enmity against sin. Every desire for truth and purity, every conviction of our own sinfulness, is an evidence that His Spirit is moving upon our hearts. {SC 26.3}
Jesus has said, "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me." John 12:32. Christ must be revealed to the sinner as the Saviour dying for the sins of the world; and as we behold the Lamb of
27
God upon the cross of Calvary, the mystery of redemption begins to unfold to our minds and the goodness of God leads us to repentance. In dying for sinners, Christ manifested a love that is incomprehensible; and as the sinner beholds this love, it softens the heart, impresses the mind, and inspires contrition in the soul. {SC 26.4}


One ray of the glory of God, one gleam of the purity of Christ, penetrating the soul, makes every spot of defilement painfully distinct, and lays bare the deformity and defects of the human character. It makes apparent the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips. The sinner's acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God, are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself as he views the pure, spotless character of Christ. {SC 29.1}

As you see the enormity of sin, as you see yourself as you really are, do not give up to despair. It was sinners that Christ came to save. We have not to reconcile God to us, but--O wondrous love!--God in Christ is "reconciling the world unto Himself." 2 Corinthians 5:19. He is wooing by His tender love the hearts of His erring children. No earthly parent could be as patient with the faults and mistakes of his children, as is God with those He seeks to save. No one could plead more tenderly with the transgressor. No human lips ever poured out more tender entreaties to the wanderer than does He. All His promises, His warnings, are but the breathing of unutterable love. {SC 35.3}
When Satan comes to tell you that you are a
36
great sinner, look up to your Redeemer and talk of His merits. That which will help you is to look to His light. Acknowledge your sin, but tell the enemy that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" and that you may be saved by His matchless love. 1 Timothy 1:15. Jesus asked Simon a question in regard to two debtors. One owed his lord a small sum, and the other owed him a very large sum; but he forgave them both, and Christ asked Simon which debtor would love his lord most. Simon answered, "He to whom he forgave most." Luke 7:43. We have been great sinners, but Christ died that we might be forgiven. The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf. Those to whom He has forgiven most will love Him most, and will stand nearest to His throne to praise Him for His great love and infinite sacrifice. It is when we most fully comprehend the love of God that we best realize the sinfulness of sin. When we see the length of the chain that was let down for us, when we understand something of the infinite sacrifice that Christ has made in our behalf, the heart is melted with tenderness and contrition. {SC 35.4}


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: vastergotland] #85617
02/19/07 06:46 PM
02/19/07 06:46 PM
J
John Boskovic  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
Amen Thomas

Re: Does God wait until after we are born again to reveal to us certain sinful habits? If so, why? [Re: John Boskovic] #85641
02/21/07 02:26 AM
02/21/07 02:26 AM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
John and Thomas, you two seem to believe God does not reveal sinful cultivated habits before or after rebirth. Did I misunderstand you?

1. Does the love and light of God ignore or overlook defective traits of character?

2. Are sin and obedience non-issues?

Quote:
Exodus
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.

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