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Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: Darius] #87155
03/28/07 10:02 PM
03/28/07 10:02 PM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Why do we insist that we must follow the example of the early church when the early church did not follow anyone's example?


Jesus the Messiah is our example. We learn of him and his teachings from the sacred words of Scripture. The "Old Testament" writing are from where Jesus taught.

 Quote:
Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


Those that knew him best also taught from the "Old Testament" concerning our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ the Messiah. These men his disciples wrote of his life, his teachings and quoted the "Old Testament" writings concerning him. These writings concerning the life and teachings of Jesus are what we call the "New Testament" writings.

 Quote:
Acts 26:22
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

Acts 28:23
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


 Quote:
For three years and a half the disciples were under the instruction of the greatest Teacher the world has ever known. By personal contact and association, Christ trained them for His service. {AA 17.2}


Those that love Jesus Christ the Messiah, accept and follow of the teachings of the Sacred Word are His people. Most often His people are called Christian, followers of Christ. They are His church, congregation, assembly, Israel, the woman of Rev 12: 1-17.
 Quote:
Acts 11:26 (King James Version)

26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.


 Quote:
It was at the ordination of the Twelve that the first step was taken in the organization of the church that after Christ's departure was to carry on His work on the earth. Of this ordination the record says, "He goeth up into a mountain, and calleth unto Him whom He would: and they came unto Him. And He ordained twelve, that they should be with Him, and that He might send them forth to preach." Mark 3:13, 14. {AA 18.1}


 Quote:
Behold the Majesty of heaven surrounded by the Twelve whom He has chosen. He is about to set them apart for their work. By these feeble agencies, through His word and Spirit, He designs to place salvation within the reach of all. {AA 18.2}
With gladness and rejoicing, God and the angels beheld this scene. The Father knew that from these men the light of heaven would shine forth; that the words spoken by
19
them as they witnessed for His Son, would echo from generation to generation till the close of time. {AA 18.3}

The disciples were to go forth as Christ's witnesses, to declare to the world what they had seen and heard of Him. Their office was the most important to which human beings had ever been called, second only to that of Christ Himself. They were to be workers together with God for the saving of men. As in the Old Testament the twelve patriarchs stood as representatives of Israel, so the twelve apostles stand as representatives of the gospel church. {AA 19.1}


 Quote:
In these first disciples was presented marked diversity. They were to be the world's teachers, and they represented widely varied types of character. In order successfully to carry forward the work to which they had been called, these men, differing in natural characteristics and in habits of life, needed to come into unity of feeling, thought, and action. This unity it was Christ's object to secure. To this end He sought to bring them into unity with Himself. The burden of His labor for them is expressed in His prayer to His Father, "That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us;" "that the world may know that Thou has sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me." John 17:21, 23. His constant prayer for them was that they might be sanctified through the truth; and He prayed with assurance, knowing that an Almighty decree had been given before the world was
21
made. He knew that the gospel of the kingdom would be preached to all nations for a witness; He knew that truth armed with the omnipotence of the Holy Spirit, would conquer in the battle with evil, and that the bloodstained banner would one day wave triumphantly over His followers. {AA 20.2}


 Quote:
As Christ's representatives the apostles were to make a decided impression on the world. The fact that they were humble men would not diminish their influence, but increase it; for the minds of their hearers would be carried from them to the Saviour, who, though unseen, was still working with them. The wonderful teaching of the apostles, their
23
words of courage and trust, would assure all that it was not in their own power that they worked, but in the power of Christ. Humbling themselves, they would declare that He whom the Jews had crucified was the Prince of life, the Son of the living God, and that in His name they did the works that He had done. {AA 22.3}


 Quote:
Christ did not fail, neither was He discouraged; and the disciples were to show a faith of the same enduring nature. They were to work as He had worked, depending on Him for strength. Though their way would be obstructed by apparent impossibilities, yet by His grace they were to go forward, despairing of nothing and hoping for everything.
24
{AA 23.2}

Christ had finished the work that was given Him to do. He had gathered out those who were to continue His work among men. And He said: "I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to Thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom Thou hast given Me, that they may be one, as We are." "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; that they all may be one; . . . I in them and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me." John 17:10, 11, 20-23. {AA 24.1


 Quote:
In obedience to Christ's command, they waited in Jerusalem for the promise of the Father--the outpouring of the Spirit. They did not wait in idleness. The record says that they were "continually in the temple, praising and blessing God." Luke 24:53. They also met together to present their requests to the Father in the name of Jesus. They knew that they had a Representative in heaven, an Advocate at the throne of God. In solemn awe they bowed in prayer, repeating the assurance, "Whatsoever ye shall
36
ask the Father in My name, He will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in My name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full." John 16:23, 24. Higher and still higher they extended the hand of faith, with the mighty argument, "It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." Romans 8:34. {AA 35.2}

As the disciples waited for the fulfillment of the promise, they humbled their hearts in true repentance and confessed their unbelief. As they called to remembrance the words that Christ had spoken to them before His death they understood more fully their meaning. Truths which had passed from their memory were again brought to their minds, and these they repeated to one another. They reproached themselves for their misapprehension of the Saviour. Like a procession, scene after scene of His wonderful life passed before them. As they meditated upon His pure, holy life they felt that no toil would be too hard, no sacrifice too great, if only they could bear witness in their lives to the loveliness of Christ's character. Oh, if they could but have the past three years to live over, they thought, how differently they would act! If they could only see the Master again, how earnestly they would strive to show Him how deeply they loved Him, and how sincerely they sorrowed for having ever grieved Him by a word or an act of unbelief! But they were comforted by the thought that they were forgiven. And they determined that, so far as possible, they would atone for their unbelief by bravely confessing Him before the world.
37
{AA 36.1}

The disciples prayed with intense earnestness for a fitness to meet men and in their daily intercourse to speak words that would lead sinners to Christ. Putting away all differences, all desire for the supremacy, they came close together in Christian fellowship. They drew nearer and nearer to God, and as they did this they realized what a privilege had been theirs in being permitted to associate so closely with Christ. Sadness filled their hearts as they thought of how many times they had grieved Him by their slowness of comprehension, their failure to understand the lessons that, for their good, He was trying to teach them. {AA 37.1}

These days of preparation were days of deep heart searching. The disciples felt their spiritual need and cried to the Lord for the holy unction that was to fit them for the work of soul saving. They did not ask for a blessing for themselves merely. They were weighted with the burden of the salvation of souls. They realized that the gospel was to be carried to the world, and they claimed the power that Christ had promised. {AA 37.2}

During the patriarchal age the influence of the Holy Spirit had often been revealed in a marked manner, but never in its fullness. Now, in obedience to the word of the Saviour, the disciples offered their supplications for this gift, and in heaven Christ added His intercession. He claimed the gift of the Spirit, that He might pour it upon His people. {AA 37.3}

"And when the Day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting."
38
{AA 37.4}

The Spirit came upon the waiting, praying disciples with a fullness that reached every heart. The Infinite One revealed Himself in power to His church. It was as if for ages this influence had been held in restraint, and now Heaven rejoiced in being able to pour out upon the church the riches of the Spirit's grace. And under the influence of the Spirit, words of penitence and confession mingled with songs of praise for sins forgiven. Words of thanksgiving and of prophecy were heard. All heaven bent low to behold and to adore the wisdom of matchless, incomprehensible love. Lost in wonder, the apostles exclaimed, "Herein is love." They grasped the imparted gift. And what followed? The sword of the Spirit, newly edged with power and bathed in the lightnings of heaven, cut its way through unbelief. Thousands were converted in a day. {AA 38.1}


Wow! There was some pretty powerful things happening.

"During the patriarchal age the influence of the Holy Spirit had often been revealed in a marked manner, but never in its fullness." This period of the of Pentecost in "Early Church" would be the time when the "Church" was at its purist. The Savior, the Lamb had dwelt or tabernacled among them. The purity of His teachings and the anointing of the "Comforter", the "Holy Spirt" was with them. Would not this be what we want for ourselves and church?

The Creator, the good Shepherd, Jesus has had His people, congregation, in every age. The adversary has tried to destroy her in every age, but the Creator has protected the "Church" through every age as well. (Rev 12: 1-17).

The early church began to have apostasy even during the time of the apostles. This appears to be brought out in Rev 2.

 Quote:
1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Colossians 2:8 (King James Version)
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: crater] #87187
03/29/07 01:08 PM
03/29/07 01:08 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
 Originally Posted By: crater
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Why do we insist that we must follow the example of the early church when the early church did not follow anyone's example?


Jesus the Messiah is our example. We learn of him and his teachings from the sacred words of Scripture. The "Old Testament" writing are from where Jesus taught.
This does not answer my question, which is above. My question is about the early church and not about Jesus the Messiah.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: Darius] #87191
03/29/07 01:23 PM
03/29/07 01:23 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
If the early church followed the example of Jesus, which I believe they initially did, then isn't that reason enough for us to do the same?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: Daryl] #87195
03/29/07 02:01 PM
03/29/07 02:01 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
How do you know that their understanding of the example of Jesus was correct? We were given functioning intellects because the Creator intends that we should not submit them to the control of men who lived in the past. If we blindly follow what men did in the past we are doubting the Creator's wisdom in giving us intellect.

I just noticed your use of "initially." This means you have doubts about their understanding. Why the query?


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: Darius] #87210
03/29/07 03:29 PM
03/29/07 03:29 PM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: Darius
 Originally Posted By: crater
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Why do we insist that we must follow the example of the early church when the early church did not follow anyone's example?


Jesus the Messiah is our example. We learn of him and his teachings from the sacred words of Scripture. The "Old Testament" writing are from where Jesus taught.
This does not answer my question, which is above. My question is about the early church and not about Jesus the Messiah.


Darius, did you read beyond the first paragraph?

Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: crater] #87234
03/29/07 09:48 PM
03/29/07 09:48 PM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: crater
Anyone hear any buzz on "Operation Global Rain"? No it's not an enviromental issue.
Here is a little quote from the offical website. Go to website to learn more.

 Quote:
An amazing and perhaps prophetic movement is under way.
It is called Operation Global Rain. It started when a few churches in Central California decided to hold a 10-day prayer event after the model of the early church found in Acts 2. There were no keynote speakers, but rather a group of disciples pleading for nothing else but the outpouring of the latter rain. Every night from 7 to 8 pm, a theme sheet with Bible verses and S.O.P. quotes was presented. We read these privately and then prayed, sometimes silently, other times in groups of two, and others as a congregation.
Though done at separate times, the churches all experienced revival. Animosity was laid aside and a true spirit of unity, repentance and mission took hold of the members. The idea then came about: What if all the churches in the conference were to petition the throne of God at the same time , for the same thing, the outpouring of the Latter Rain. http://operationglobalrain.com/


FYI to anyone whom may be interested in learning what Operation Global Rain is about you can check out 3abn Today Live.

 Quote:
Thursday March 29th, Thom Garner and Ivor Myers of the Operation Global Rain team will be doing a 3ABN Today Live interview. For program schedule see: http://www.3abn.org/broadcast_schedule.cfm

Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: crater] #87291
03/31/07 12:44 AM
03/31/07 12:44 AM
D
D R  Offline
Charter Member
SDA
Active Member 2020

Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 719
East Coast Canada
Darius, your statements are valid, "we" do a great job dancing around the fact of "how is it that the early Church was SO RIGHT??? "
-YES the example we MUST follow is that of our Saviour Jesus Christ! We do not need to go back in History and stop at the "early Church " we MUST go to His History and only be satisfied to STOP at Jesus Christ!
-does this post make any sence to anyone? Or am I Nuts???

Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: D R] #87305
03/31/07 07:09 AM
03/31/07 07:09 AM
C
crater  Offline OP
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: BeachBubbaDan (BBD)
Darius, your statements are valid, "we" do a great job dancing around the fact of "how is it that the early Church was SO RIGHT??? "
-YES the example we MUST follow is that of our Saviour Jesus Christ! We do not need to go back in History and stop at the "early Church " we MUST go to His History and only be satisfied to STOP at Jesus Christ!
-does this post make any sence to anyone? Or am I Nuts???


I haven't read enough of your posts to comment on your sanity. : D
I have to admit to wondering about D. A. L.'s.

As I said in an earlier post. Jesus Christ the Messiah is our example.

 Quote:
Reflecting Christ. Pg. 41, Chap. 27 - Jesus Provided a Model of Character
God does not intend that your light shall so shine that your good words or works shall bring the praise of men to yourself; but that the Author of all good shall be glorified and exalted. Jesus, in His life, gave to men a model of character. How little power did the world have over Him to mold Him according to its standard! All its influence was thrown off. He declared, "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work!" If we had this devotion to the work of God, doing it with an eye single to His glory, we should be able to say with Christ, "I seek not mine own glory." His life was full of good works, and it is our duty to live as our great Example lived. Our life must be hid with Christ in God, and then the light will be reflected from Jesus to us, and we shall reflect it upon those around us, not in mere talk and profession, but in good works, and by manifesting the character of Christ. Those who are reflecting the light of God will cherish a loving disposition. They will be cheerful, willing, obedient to all the requirements of God. They will be meek and self-sacrificing, and will work with devoted love for the salvation of souls. . . . {RC 41.3}

All who are true lightbearers will reflect light upon the pathway of others. Let those who have named the name of Christ, depart from all iniquity. If you yield to the claims of God, and become permeated with His love, and filled with His fullness, children, youth, and young disciples will look to you for their impressions of what constitutes practical godliness; and you may thus be the means of leading them in the path of obedience to God. You will then be exerting an influence which will bear the test of God, and your work will be compared to gold, silver, and precious stones, for it will be of an imperishable nature.--Review and Herald, Oct. 16, 1888. {RC 41.4}

Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: crater] #87463
04/03/07 01:22 PM
04/03/07 01:22 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
Crater, it is always good to have someone else concerned about my sanity. The only problem is that the ones questioning another's sanity often turn out to be the insane ones.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Reply Quote
Re: Operation Global Rain [Re: Darius] #89685
06/08/07 10:14 PM
06/08/07 10:14 PM
E
ebevill50  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 10
Jonesboro GA
The only guide we have to follow is the word of God. If we call ourselves the remnant church, we must mean part of what is left, isn't that what remnant means? My concern is that sometimes by having SO MUCH OF THE TRUTH! we might miss the signs in being so careful as did the Pharisees (they worried so about being decieved) when the word became flesh.

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