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Do you agree? #86149
03/07/07 11:27 AM
03/07/07 11:27 AM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Do you agree with the position of the author of this quarter's lesson, and with the position of the SDABC, that "in some places [of Ecclesiastes] Solomon is writing from the perspective of someone alienated from God. Like modern authors, he's giving us thoughts that flow directly from his head" and that "those portions of Ecclesiastes that relate the experience and reasoning of [Solomon's] years of apostasy are not to be taken as representing the mind and will of the Spirit"?

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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Rosangela] #86150
03/07/07 01:52 PM
03/07/07 01:52 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
I have an It Is Written Bible from years ago. At the front of this particular book of the Bible, there seems to be a question about who the author is.

This is a portion of what it says:

 Quote:

Date and Authorship. Today most scholars agree that Solomon was not the author, but rather that the work is a product of post-Exilic times. They usually assume, however, that the central figure in the book is Solomon, and that the unknown author used him as a literary device to convey his message. Conservative students of the Bible, however, have always maintained the Solomonic authorship of the book. Uncertainty concerning authorship does not destroy canonicity of the book.

This is what they, whoever they is/are, have also said about its purpose:

 Quote:

Purpose. The author shows from personal experience that all earthly goals and blessings, when pursued as ends in themselves, lead to dissatisfaction and emptiness. The highest good in life lies in reverencing and obeying God. Thus the author was a man of faith; he was skeptical only of human wisdom and endeavor.

They say that the author, be it Solomon or whoever else, was a man of faith who was skeptical only of human wisdom and endeavour.

They do not refer to any apostasy on the author's part.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Daryl] #86151
03/07/07 02:01 PM
03/07/07 02:01 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Rosangela,

In direct response to your post, where does the author of the quarterly say that?

In the meantime, I will see if I can locate it myself.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Daryl] #86153
03/07/07 02:37 PM
03/07/07 02:37 PM
Rosangela  Offline OP
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Daryl,

He says that in the Introduction, and implies several times in the several lessons that some things Solomon says should not be applied to our lives because they are just a product of Solomon's bitterness.

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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Rosangela] #86155
03/07/07 04:13 PM
03/07/07 04:13 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
There seems to me to be some things, especially in the first few chapters, that should not be taken at face value because they contradict other parts of the Bible.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Rosangela] #86156
03/07/07 04:29 PM
03/07/07 04:29 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
The following is from the Introduction Section in relation to the author of the book of Ecclesiastes:

 Quote:

For instance, many scholars claim that the author—whoever it was—wasn't King Solomon. Of course, these are often the same scholars who claim that Daniel was written in the second century B.C. or that Moses never wrote Genesis, so we can dismiss them out of hand. We are, instead, proceeding on the assumption that Solomon was the writer, an assumption based on Christian and Jewish tradition, on internal evidence inside the book that points to Solomon as the author, as well as on Ellen White's statements that "the book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon in his old age, after he had fully proved that all the pleasures earth is able to give are empty and unsatisfying.


Here is the link:

http://www.ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/07a/index.html

Here is the EGW quote regarding Solomon:

 Quote:

The book of Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon in his old age, after he had fully proven that all the pleasures earth is able to give are empty and unsatisfying. He there shows how impossible it is for the vanities of the world to meet the longings of the soul. His conclusion is that it is wisdom to enjoy with gratitude the good gifts of God, and to do right; for all our works will be brought into judgments. {HR, June 1, 1878 par. 1}

Solomon's autobiography is a mournful one. He gives us the history of his search for happiness. He engaged in intellectual pursuits; he gratified his love for pleasure; he carried out his schemes of commercial enterprise. He was surrounded by the fascinating splendor of court life. All that the carnal heart could desire was at his command; yet he sums up his experience in this sad record:-- {HR, June 1, 1878 par. 2}


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Daryl] #86160
03/07/07 05:09 PM
03/07/07 05:09 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
If Solomon was writing from the perspective of someone alienated from God, I do not feel that he was alienated from God during any time of his writing of the book of Ecclesiastes.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Daryl] #86174
03/07/07 10:33 PM
03/07/07 10:33 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
He might have written something down originally when he was alienated, and saved it, and then rewrote what he had written before at the time he wrote Ecclesiastes. He wasn't necessarily relying on memory when he wrote things down.

Or are you disagreeing with the idea that there are places in Ecclesiastes which convey the perspective of one who is alienated from God?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Tom] #86176
03/08/07 01:42 AM
03/08/07 01:42 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Here is the full quote what Rosangela was referring to in her opening post:

 Quote:

To begin, Solomon was writing at the end of his life, a life full of bitterness and anger at himself and his apostasy. What's unique about the book is that in some places Solomon is writing from the perspective of someone alienated from God. Like modern authors, he's giving us thoughts that flow directly from his head. We see the world as it appears through his eyes.

In such places it is well to heed the words of The SDA Bible Commentary: "Those portions of Ecclesiastes that relate the experience and reasoning of [Solomon's] years of apostasy are not to be taken as representing the mind and will of the Spirit. Nevertheless, they are an inspired record of what he actually thought and did during that time (see Prophets and Kings, p. 79), and that record constitutes a sober warning against the wrong kind of thought and action. . . . Passages such as these should not be wrested from their context and made to teach some supposed truth that Inspiration never intended them to teach."—The SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 3, p. 1060.

I also tend to question the part where it says that "those portions of Ecclesiastes that relate the experience and reasoning of [Solomon's] years of apostasy are not to be taken as representing the mind and will of the Spirit."

This seems to contradict the Bible itself where it says in 2 Tim. 3:16 that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Do you agree? [Re: Daryl] #86179
03/08/07 03:35 AM
03/08/07 03:35 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
It is possible for a false statement to be "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." Consider Gen 16:2 - And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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