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American Flag in the Sanctuary? #90710
07/24/07 01:41 AM
07/24/07 01:41 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, so I hope this forum is approximately appropriate.

The debate over whether or not to display the American flag in the sanctuary was recently brought to my attention. Has anyone here actually put some thought and research into it, and come to some conclusions? I'd like to hear the conclusions and the supporting evidence. Thanks.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: asygo] #90712
07/24/07 04:51 AM
07/24/07 04:51 AM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: asygo
I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, so I hope this forum is approximately appropriate.

The debate over whether or not to display the American flag in the sanctuary was recently brought to my attention. Has anyone here actually put some thought and research into it, and come to some conclusions? I'd like to hear the conclusions and the supporting evidence. Thanks.
I haven't researched the subject but I think that the question as phrased would only pertain to churches in the U. S. A.

I'm fairly sure that you wouldn't find an American flag in a JW Hall. \:\)

Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: crater] #90715
07/24/07 06:39 AM
07/24/07 06:39 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: crater
I haven't researched the subject but I think that the question as phrased would only pertain to churches in the U. S. A.


You're right.

Canadians (and others), feel free to replace "American" with whatever is appropriate for you. ;\)

 Originally Posted By: crater
I'm fairly sure that you wouldn't find an American flag in a JW Hall. \:\)


If I understand correctly, they are against all flags. But then, JWs are against many things that Adventists favor.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: asygo] #90728
07/24/07 04:49 PM
07/24/07 04:49 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Though I'm most interested in the reasons behind it, I thought it would be good to have a poll just to see where people stand.

Should we fly a national flag in the sanctuary?
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 07/24/07 04:49 PM

By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: asygo] #90729
07/24/07 04:52 PM
07/24/07 04:52 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Ignore that last poll. I want to add an option for those sitting on the fence.

Should we fly a national flag in the sanctuary?
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 07/24/07 04:52 PM

By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: asygo] #90731
07/24/07 08:32 PM
07/24/07 08:32 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
It seems to me that most, but not all, of our churches have a national flag in the sanctuary.

I actually haven't researched this either, however, I never found a problem with it previously.

Relating to this, I understand there may be one or more SDA Churches against having a cross in the sanctuary. I think I will begin a new topic on this.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: Daryl] #90737
07/25/07 01:06 AM
07/25/07 01:06 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Would a cross be less appropriate in the sanctuary than a flag?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: asygo] #90741
07/25/07 07:36 AM
07/25/07 07:36 AM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: asygo
I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, so I hope this forum is approximately appropriate.

The debate over whether or not to display the American flag in the sanctuary was recently brought to my attention. Has anyone here actually put some thought and research into it, and come to some conclusions? I'd like to hear the conclusions and the supporting evidence. Thanks.


Here is what I found as to the significane of displaying the American flag. Old Glory:
Show Her The Respect a Lady Deserves
By Judith E. Pearson, Ph.D.

 Quote:
With this sudden resurgence of patriotic display, we need to be mindful of flag protocol, and remember to display our national banner in a way that shows reverence and respect. After all, the U.S. Flag is a spiritual symbol of our values, aspirations, ideals, and history as a people united in the cause of liberty and democracy.

Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: crater] #90745
07/25/07 04:37 PM
07/25/07 04:37 PM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
I did a little search on flags in church and found a discussion under the a Presbyterian Church That had some interesting thoughts on the subject. Near the bottom of the site I found this quote that sheds some light on the history of why flags are displayed in American churches. The site had links to various articles on the subject.

 Quote:
On church flags – a little more history [1-2-07]

There is some history to the flags in churches. One does not typically find national flags in churches overseas. In the United States the practice seems to have developed during the Taft administration when the world was heading toward WWI. Franklin Roosevelt issued a statement requesting churches to have the flag placed in churches as we entered WWII. My memory is that this was done reluctantly and at the advice of and pressure of Secretary of War Stimson. The cross on the Christian flag is one inch taller than the eagle on the American flag.

John Rauhut


Karen B. Westerfield Tucker wrote The American Flag in Methodist Worship: A Historical Look at Practice Here are Just a couple quotes from the article that I found interesting.

 Quote:
From at least the mid-nineteenth century onward, the flag has often appeared inside and outside Methodist churches and at church gatherings during periods of national crisis. Such is not surprising, given that the United States and the Methodist denomination were born at roughly the same time and grew up together: Methodist identity has been strongly linked with the nation and its ideals of democracy and liberty. Methodist writers throughout the nineteenth century, for example, saw the country as their "parish" and urged Methodists to play a key role in the establishment — and perpetuation — of the "Christian nation." Nowhere was this connection between duty to God and duty to country more obvious than in the Methodist Episcopal Church during the 1860's. .....

......Conover was not alone in his concern about subordinating Christian (or intended Christian) symbols to a national flag. Others were also troubled by the blending of religion with nationalism, remembering the German helmets in World War I emblazoned with "Gott mit uns" ("God with us"). But it was the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam conflict that forced many churches to reconsider the placement of flags in the worship space. More recently, because of the international ecumenical movement and advances in technology, it has been the greater sense of global Christianity — Christians linked by baptism to the Kingdom that transcends all nations — that has caused many United Methodists to rethink the use of the flag. Can the flag, which to many symbolizes economic and military might, stand near the cross with its meanings of humility, servanthood, and selfless sacrifice? Does "Old Glory" in the congregation’s place of worship conflict with the glorification of our unbounded, nationless God? Can the prophetic word — and even God’s word of judgment — to a nation be heard when that nation’s flag stands in a place of honor?


I haven't found that Ellen has commented either way on flags in the santurary of the church. So would need to study principles. She has mentioned the rebel flag a few times as well as satan's flag.

There were several time that she spoke on temperance to non-SDA groups where the American flag was drapped or displayed in her honor.

 Quote:
Step out from under the rebel flag, and take your stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. {RH, July 7, 1904 par. 13}

Lose Not One Opportunity to Unite With Temperance Work.--I am sorry that there has not been a more lively interest among our people of late years to magnify this branch of the Lord's work. We cannot afford to lose one opportunity to unite with the temperance work in any place. Although
226
the cause of temperance in foreign countries does not always advance as rapidly as we could wish, yet in some places decided success has attended the efforts of those who engaged in it. In Europe we found the people sound on this question. On one occasion, when I accepted an invitation to speak to a large audience on the subject of temperance, the people did me the honor of draping above the pulpit the American flag. My words were received with the deepest attention, and at the close of my talk a hearty vote of thanks was accorded me. I have never, in all my work on this question, had to accept one word of disrespect.--Letter 278, 1907. {Te 225.5}

On Sunday she addressed the largest crowd she was to encounter in any of her public efforts in Europe. The president of the local temperance society had invited her to make a temperance address at the soldiers' military gymnasium, the largest hall in the city. The hall was packed with 1,600 people for the occasion. Obviously the interest in temperance reform was high. {EGWE 122.1}

When she arrived, Mrs. White found an American flag placed as a canopy above the pulpit, "an attention," she remarked, "which I highly appreciated." {EGWE 122.2}

In the audience to hear her were many prominent citizens, including the Bishop of the State Church and a number of other clergymen. {EGWE 122.3}

Re: American Flag in the Sanctuary? [Re: crater] #90754
07/25/07 11:25 PM
07/25/07 11:25 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Isn't Christianity, which sees neither Jew nor Greek, above nationalistic considerations? Certainly, many have sacrificed themselves to secure freedom from the tyranny of other men. But what is that in comparison to the sacrifice of the Lamb slain to secure freedom from the tyranny of self, sin, and Satan?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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