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Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Green Cochoa] #135499
08/01/11 04:25 PM
08/01/11 04:25 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
GC, good point. I agree not all sinners are saved. Acknowledging sinfulness is not the same as confessing and forsaking it. Here's the following paragraph:

When the prophet Daniel beheld the glory surrounding the heavenly messenger that was sent unto him, he was overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness and imperfection. Describing the effect of the wonderful scene, he says, "There remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength." Daniel 10:8. The soul thus touched will hate its selfishness, abhor its self-love, and will seek, through Christ's righteousness, for the purity of heart that is in harmony with the law of God and the character of Christ. {SC 29.2}

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #135545
08/04/11 01:18 PM
08/04/11 01:18 PM
Daryl  Offline

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Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
In our deviotional time this morning my wife and I read an EGW comment on "sinlessness" from today's (August 4th) reading from the book Maranatha.

This is what we read:
Quote:
Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments, will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. {Mar 224.5}

The above quote doesn't say when this condition will be reached, but that it will be reached.

This prompted me to do a word search, which brought me to the following:
Quote:
If we are doers of the word of God, we shall be followers of Christ, and our lives will be characterized by holiness in aim, holiness in aspiration, holiness in action, which is progressive sanctification. We shall have Christlike sympathy for all souls, both saints and sinners; but with this experience there will be no vain boasting of our sinlessness. We shall rather speak in the language of Paul, and say: "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect; but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded; and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." {ST, May 23, 1895 par. 7}

The above quote speaks about "progressive sanctification" rather than "instant sanctification."


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Daryl] #135579
08/06/11 10:47 PM
08/06/11 10:47 PM
Johann  Offline
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Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Is this a contradiction?

Mikey's Funnies is generously hosted by Agathon Group, website development and hosting with a ministry heart:
http://www.agathongroup.com/

today's"FUNNY"===========================

WHEN I SAY, "I AM A CHRISTIAN"
By Carol Wimmer

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not shouting "I am saved."
I'm whispering "I was lost";
That is why I chose this way.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble,
And need someone to be my guide.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak,
And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed,
And cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not claiming to be perfect.
My flaws are too visible,
But God believes I'm worth it.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches,
Which is why I speak His name.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority;
I only know I'm loved.

Copyright 1989 Carol S. Wimmer. Permission is granted to send this to others, with attribution, but not for commercial purposes.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Daryl] #135604
08/07/11 05:19 PM
08/07/11 05:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl F
In our deviotional time this morning my wife and I read an EGW comment on "sinlessness" from today's (August 4th) reading from the book Maranatha.

This is what we read:
Quote:
Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments, will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. {Mar 224.5}

The above quote doesn't say when this condition will be reached, but that it will be reached.

This prompted me to do a word search, which brought me to the following:
Quote:
If we are doers of the word of God, we shall be followers of Christ, and our lives will be characterized by holiness in aim, holiness in aspiration, holiness in action, which is progressive sanctification. We shall have Christlike sympathy for all souls, both saints and sinners; but with this experience there will be no vain boasting of our sinlessness. We shall rather speak in the language of Paul, and say: "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect; but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended; but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded; and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." {ST, May 23, 1895 par. 7}

The above quote speaks about "progressive sanctification" rather than "instant sanctification."

Note she said "everyone". "Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments, will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression." Peter describes newborn believers in such terms. 1 Peter 2:1-3 and 4:1-2. The thief on the cross achieved sinlessness. Paul achieved it on the road to Damascus and then maintained it throughout his life "perfecting holiness" (2 Cor 7:1) til the day he died.

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #135617
08/08/11 10:32 AM
08/08/11 10:32 AM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments, will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression.
From Maranatha - Page 225

"Those who are really seeking to perfect Christian character will never indulge the thought that they are sinless. Their lives may be irreproachable, they may be living representatives of the truth which they have accepted; but the more they discipline their minds to dwell upon the character of Christ, and the nearer they approach to His divine image, the more clearly will they discern its spotless perfection, and the more deeply will they feel their own defects." And again: "Those who take pains to call attention to their good works, constantly talking of their sinless state and endeavoring to make their religious attainments prominent, are only deceiving their own souls by so doing." (The Sanctified Life, p. 7 & 12)

"But we shall not boast of our holiness. As we have clearer views of Christ's spotlessness and infinite purity, we shall feel as did Daniel, when he beheld the glory of the Lord, and said, "My comeliness was turned in me into corruption." (Selected Messages 3, p. 355)

"Why is it that so many claim to be holy and sinless? It is because they are so far from Christ." Manuscript 5, 1885


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Johann] #135621
08/08/11 05:26 PM
08/08/11 05:26 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Believers who abide in Jesus do not sin; in fact, they cannot sin. 1 John 3:6-9. They are "perfecting holiness". To sin, they must neglect or refuse to abide in Jesus.

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #135627
08/08/11 10:09 PM
08/08/11 10:09 PM
Johann  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2014

Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Believers who abide in Jesus do not sin; in fact, they cannot sin. 1 John 3:6-9. They are "perfecting holiness". To sin, they must neglect or refuse to abide in Jesus.


What happens if you fall asleep for a moment, like the disciples did?


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Mountain Man] #135629
08/09/11 01:18 AM
08/09/11 01:18 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
To sin, they must neglect or refuse to abide in Jesus.

which happens rather frequently. Sinless perfection cannot be a revolving-door experience - now in, now out. If we have this kind of "sinless perfection," we won't survive the time of trouble.

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Johann] #135643
08/10/11 06:27 PM
08/10/11 06:27 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Believers who abide in Jesus do not sin; in fact, they cannot sin. 1 John 3:6-9. They are "perfecting holiness". To sin, they must neglect or refuse to abide in Jesus.


What happens if you fall asleep for a moment, like the disciples did?

It wasn't a sin to fall asleep.

Re: The belief of "Sinless Perfection" ... [Re: Rosangela] #135644
08/10/11 06:31 PM
08/10/11 06:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
To sin, they must neglect or refuse to abide in Jesus.

which happens rather frequently. Sinless perfection cannot be a revolving-door experience - now in, now out.

Why not?


Originally Posted By: Rosangela
If we have this kind of "sinless perfection," we won't survive the time of trouble.

Only people who achieve and maintain sinless perfection will survive the time of trouble.

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