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#184850 - 08/08/17 12:22 AM Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work [Re: APL]
dedication Online   content

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4239
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
DEDICATION - - The structure in the church is very political and there are those in the church trying to force their view even to the point of threatening others to take away their livelihood. It does not have to necessarily be outside the church to follow in the path of Romanism. Suppression of religious freedom can start at home.


I can agree that the structure in the church is very political, and has some problems of being more "policy orientated" than "truth in Christ" orientated.

However, this thread is about using the state, with civil penalties, to enforce religion on the population at large.


Right now, membership in a church is still volunteer. A person has different options if things shift in a direction within the church that they can't agree with. A pastor that no longer believes the core doctrines upheld by the church in which he is pastor, will most likely loose his job as a pastor of that church -- that is just the way things have always been done, or there would be mass confusion.

It's also the reason why there are so many denominations -- each one gathering together the people who have similar beliefs, but different from their former church.

But once church and state join hands -- everyone in the whole region, the whole country, must tow the line on whatever that singular "church/state" demands -- they have no other place to go.
It's no longer volunteer membership -- it's forced membership.


And that is what this thread is about --





It's a whole different thing.
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#184851 - 08/08/17 12:38 AM Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work [Re: dedication]
dedication Online   content

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4239
Loc: Canada
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause reads:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"--meaning that not only no church but no "religion" could be made the official faith of the United States.

The Free Exercise Clause provides that Congress shall not make laws "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion.


It is this that is being highly debated and fought against.
Can congress make laws to establish A RELIGION and enforce it upon the nation?
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#184859 - 08/08/17 09:21 AM Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work [Re: dedication]
Gary K Offline
Full Member
Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Colville, Wa
Every church has the right to say what is expressed from the pulpit in their organization. As dedication said, a church is something people join because of holding the same beliefs. If anything goes inside a church, theologically speaking, how can anyone understand what the organization stands for? It becomes nothing more than Babel. It becomes mass confusion if every belief, every idea, every agenda, is tolerated. There has to be church discipline, church standards, and a common set of beliefs.

I've never understood the people who say the church is evil because it doesn't change to accept all their beliefs. Why do they think they have the right to force change on everyone else? Other's do not think the way they do and the church has never stood for what they push, so what gives them the sense of entitlement to think they are so important that the church must change fit their ideas? Why not start their own church? Then they will have a place in which they fit and that church can be organized to agree with their own understanding of things, and those who disagree with them can peaceably continue in what they believe.
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#184863 - 08/08/17 12:02 PM Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work [Re: dedication]
APL Offline
SDA
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5000+ Member
Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 5379
Loc: Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: APL
DEDICATION - - The structure in the church is very political and there are those in the church trying to force their view even to the point of threatening others to take away their livelihood. It does not have to necessarily be outside the church to follow in the path of Romanism. Suppression of religious freedom can start at home.


I can agree that the structure in the church is very political, and has some problems of being more "policy orientated" than "truth in Christ" orientated.

However, this thread is about using the state, with civil penalties, to enforce religion on the population at large.


Right now, membership in a church is still volunteer. A person has different options if things shift in a direction within the church that they can't agree with. A pastor that no longer believes the core doctrines upheld by the church in which he is pastor, will most likely loose his job as a pastor of that church -- that is just the way things have always been done, or there would be mass confusion.

It's also the reason why there are so many denominations -- each one gathering together the people who have similar beliefs, but different from their former church.

But once church and state join hands -- everyone in the whole region, the whole country, must tow the line on whatever that singular "church/state" demands -- they have no other place to go.
It's no longer volunteer membership -- it's forced membership.


And that is what this thread is about --





It's a whole different thing.
So it can never happen in the SDA church? How many SDA church members support the state's policies? How many SDA church members support the current U.S. administration? Where to they learn this?
_________________________
Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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#184876 - 08/09/17 01:49 AM Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work [Re: APL]
dedication Online   content

Global Moderator
4000+ Member
Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 4239
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: APL

So it can never happen in the SDA church? How many SDA church members support the state's policies? How many SDA church members support the current U.S. administration? Where to they learn this?


Could a large segment of the Adventist church join the political state enforced religion when it appears?

Yes, I believe a large number will give up the Adventist beliefs and bow to the demands of the "state religion" -- open their church doors on Sunday, and turn against the members that continue to stand for the "old paths" of Seventh-day Adventism.

In fact -- I believe that the movement saying that Adventist leadership should not stand up against people who seek to do away with our distinctly Adventist doctrines, are preparing the church to blend in to the coming "state-religion".
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#184878 - 08/09/17 09:58 AM Re: Vatican says separation of church/state doesn't Work [Re: dedication]
Gary K Offline
Full Member
Registered: 02/09/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Colville, Wa
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: APL

So it can never happen in the SDA church? How many SDA church members support the state's policies? How many SDA church members support the current U.S. administration? Where to they learn this?


Could a large segment of the Adventist church join the political state enforced religion when it appears?

Yes, I believe a large number will give up the Adventist beliefs and bow to the demands of the "state religion" -- open their church doors on Sunday, and turn against the members that continue to stand for the "old paths" of Seventh-day Adventism.

In fact -- I believe that the movement saying that Adventist leadership should not stand up against people who seek to do away with our distinctly Adventist doctrines, are preparing the church to blend in to the coming "state-religion".



I agree with you on this, dedication. The reason I do is because the things being pushed come from, for the most part, the world's political agenda. To me that means those pushing these things have accepted political agendas over Biblical concepts.
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