What comes first-- The Sunday law or the Church judgment?

Does Scripture and SOP give us clear clues as to the timing of the above events?

"The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes, for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided.--2SM 81 (1890).{7BC 976.2}


This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed. All who proved their loyalty to God by observing His law, and refusing to accept a spurious sabbath, will rank under the banner of the Lord God Jehovah, and will receive the seal of the living God. Those who yield the truth of heavenly origin and accept the Sunday sabbath, will receive the mark of the beast (Letter 11, 1890). {7BC 976.3} {15MR 15

"The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld, must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith, and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. 5T 463

An apostate church will unite with the powers of earth and hell to place upon the forehead or in the hand, the mark of the beast, and prevail upon the children of God to worship the beast and his image. They will seek to compel them to renounce their allegiance to God's law, and yield homage to the papacy. Then will come the times which will try men's souls; for the confederacy of apostasy will demand that the loyal subjects of God shall renounce the law of Jehovah, and repudiate the truth of his word. Then will the gold be separated from the dross, and it will be made apparent who are the godly, who are loyal and true, and who are the disloyal, the dross and the tinsel. What clouds of chaff will then be borne away by the fan of God! Where now our eyes can discover only rich floors of wheat, will be chaff blown away with the fan of God. Every one who is not centered in Christ will fail to stand the test and ordeal of that day.{RH, November 8, 1892 par. 7}

Many will be imprisoned, many will flee for their lives from cities and towns, and many will be martyrs for Christ's sake in standing in defense of the truth.--3SM 397

There is a prospect before us of a continued struggle, at the risk of imprisonment, loss of property and even of life itself, to defend the law of God.--5T 712

"The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes, for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided."--2SM 81 (1890).{7BC 976.2}

This statement is true, however we must understand that the close of probation for the church is not the close of probation of the world.Here it addresses the final world's close of probation. Two different COP's. Ellen White was not given all the light in both scenarios, She was mostly given light on the final probation for the world.

Everyone who is abiding in Christ and settling into the truth is being sealed right now.

Here we see that the sealing is done for the church, then the winds (Sunday law) is let loose. Once we understand that there are two COP, the whole puzzle comes together.

I've considered this subject well, did you see the outlines and references? They show (and backed up by SOP and Scripture)why, where and how the two probations come. Review what is posted and not hop over the points raised. Please read carefully again the posts.

Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, . . . that we may know what is coming. (Maranatha 200

" Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth (at Sinai): but now he has promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
12:27 And this, Yet once more, signifies the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

I wish I could believe things are wrapping up quickly. But I don't. I see no reason to believe it. I'm fine with it, though. I don't have to believe it to fight the good fight of faith (not saying anyone here does). I am perfectly okay with thinking I might live and die of old age before Jesus returns.

If such had only known that the work of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary would close so soon, how differently would they have conducted themselves, how earnestly would they have watched! The Master, anticipating all this, gives them timely warning in the command to watch. He distinctly states the suddenness of His coming. He does not measure the time, lest we shall neglect a momentary preparation, and in our indolence look ahead to the time when we think He will come, and defer the preparation. "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not." Yet this foretold uncertainty, and suddenness at last, fails to rouse us from stupidity to earnest wakefulness, and to quicken our watchfulness for our expected Master. Those not found waiting and watching are finally surprised in their unfaithfulness. The Master comes, and instead of their being ready to open unto Him immediately, they are locked in worldly slumber, and are lost at last. {2T 191.2}

A company was presented before me in contrast to the one described. They were waiting and watching. Their eyes were directed heavenward, and the words of their Master were upon their lips: "What I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the Master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly He find you sleeping." The Lord intimates a delay before the morning finally dawns. But He would not have them give way to weariness, nor relax their earnest watchfulness, because the morning does not open upon them as soon as they expected. The waiting ones were represented to me as looking upward. They were encouraging one another by repeating these words: "The first and second watches are past. We are in the third watch, waiting and watching for the Master's return. There remains but a little period of watching now." I saw some becoming weary; their eyes were directed downward, and they were engrossed with earthly things, and were unfaithful in watching. They were saying: "In the first watch we expected our Master, but were disappointed. We thought surely He would come in the second watch, but that passed, and He came not. We may be again disappointed. We need not be so particular. He may not come in the following watch. We are in the third watch, and now we think it best to lay up our treasure on the earth, that we may be secure against want." Many were sleeping, stupefied with the cares of this life and allured by the deceitfulness of riches from their waiting, watching position. {2T 192.1}

Angels were represented to me as looking on with intense interest to mark the appearance of the weary yet faithful watchers, lest they be too sorely tried, and sink under the toil and hardships made doubly severe because their brethren had been diverted from their watch, and become drunk with worldly cares and beguiled by worldly prosperity. These heavenly angels grieved that those who were once watching should, by their indolence and unfaithfulness, increase the trial and burdens of those who were earnestly and perseveringly endeavoring to maintain their waiting, watching position. {2T 193.1}

I saw that it was impossible to have the affections and interests engrossed in worldly cares, to be increasing earthly possessions, and yet be in a waiting, watching position, as our Saviour has commanded. Said the angel: "They can secure but one world. In order to acquire the heavenly treasure, they must sacrifice the earthly. They cannot have both worlds." I saw how necessary a continuance of faithfulness in watching was in order to escape the delusive snares of Satan. He leads those who should be waiting and watching, to take an advance step toward the world; they have no intention of going further, but that one step removed them that much further from Jesus, and made it easier to take the next; and thus step after step is taken toward the world, until all the difference between them and the world is a profession, a name only. They have lost their peculiar, holy character, and there is nothing except their profession to distinguish them from the lovers of the world around them. {2T 193.2}

I saw that watch after watch was in the past. Because of this, should there be a lack of vigilance? Oh, no! There is the greater necessity of unceasing watchfulness, for now the moments are fewer than before the passing of the first watch. Now the period of waiting is necessarily shorter than at first. If we watched with unabated vigilance then, how much more need of double watchfulness in the second watch. The passing of the second watch has brought us to the third, and now it is inexcusable to abate our watchfulness. The third watch calls for threefold earnestness. To become impatient now would be to lose all our earnest, persevering watching heretofore. The long night of gloom is trying; but the morning is deferred in mercy, because if the Master should come, so many would be found unready. God's unwillingness to have His people perish has been the reason for so long delay. But the coming of the morning to the faithful, and of the night to the unfaithful, is right upon us. By waiting and watching, God's people are to manifest their peculiar character, their separation from the world. By our watching position we are to show that we are truly strangers and pilgrims upon the earth. The difference between those who love the world and those who love Christ is so plain as to be unmistakable. While worldlings are all earnestness and ambition to secure earthly treasure, God's people are not conformed to the world, but show by their earnest, watching, waiting position that they are transformed; that their home is not in this world, but that they are seeking a better country, even a heavenly. {2T 193.3}

I hope, my dear brethren and sisters, that you will not pass your eye over these words without thoroughly considering their import. As the men of Galilee stood looking steadfastly toward heaven, to catch, if possible, a glimpse of their ascending Saviour, two men in white apparel, heavenly angels commissioned to comfort them for the loss of the presence of their Saviour, stood by them and inquired: "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven." {2T 194.1}

God designs that His people shall fix their eyes heavenward, looking for the glorious appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. While the attention of worldlings is turned to various enterprises, ours should be to the heavens; our faith should reach further and further into the glorious mysteries of the heavenly treasure, drawing the precious, divine rays of light from the heavenly sanctuary to shine in our hearts, as they shine upon the face of Jesus. The scoffers mock the waiting, watching ones, and inquire: "Where is the promise of His coming? You have been disappointed. Engage now with us, and you will prosper in worldly things. Get gain, get money, and be honored of the world." The waiting ones look upward and answer: "We are watching." And by turning from earthly pleasure and worldly fame, and from the deceitfulness of riches, they show themselves to be in that position. By watching they become strong; they overcome sloth and selfishness and love of ease. Affliction's fire kindles upon them, and the waiting time seems long. They sometimes grieve, and faith falters; but they rally again, overcome their fears and doubts, and while their eyes are directed heavenward, say to their adversaries: "I am watching, I am waiting the return of my Lord. I will glory in tribulation, in affliction, in necessities." {2T 194.2}

The desire of our Lord is that we should be watching, so that when He cometh and knocketh we may open to Him immediately. A blessing is pronounced upon those servants whom He finds watching. "He shall gird Himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them." Who among us in these last days will be thus specially honored by the Master of assemblies? Are we prepared without delay to open to Him immediately and welcome Him in? Watch, watch, watch. Nearly all have ceased their watching and waiting; we are not ready to open to Him immediately. The love of the world has so occupied our thoughts that our eyes are not turned upward, but downward to the earth. We are hurrying about, engaging with zeal and earnestness in different enterprises, but God is forgotten, and the heavenly treasure is not valued. We are not in a waiting, watching position. The love of the world and the deceitfulness of riches eclipse our faith, and we do not long for, and love, the appearing of our Saviour. We try too hard to take care of self ourselves. We are uneasy and greatly lack a firm trust in God. Many worry and work, contrive and plan, fearing they may suffer need. They cannot afford time to pray or to attend religious meetings and, in their care for themselves, leave no chance for God to care for them. And the Lord does not do much for them, for they give Him no opportunity. They do too much for themselves, and believe and trust in God too little. {2T 195.1}

I wish I could believe things are wrapping up quickly. But I don't. I see no reason to believe it. I'm fine with it, though. I don't have to believe it to fight the good fight of faith (not saying anyone here does). I am perfectly okay with thinking I might live and die of old age before Jesus returns.

A summary would be as follows:
1) We see that there is no escaping the fact that SOP clearly says that Ezekiel 9 and Rev. 7 sealing(markings) are one and the same event.(Test. to Ministers page 445)

2) We see that they are sealed in their forehead, indicating the mind, or more precisely a knowledge of His truth understood. accepted and obeyed

3)Once we know point 1, we then look closely at those two Scriptures for clues as to the unfolding of events. We see that the sealings are given to those ONLY who are sighing and crying for the abominations done in the midst (church and our own lives). Then we also note that they are given to His people BEFORE the release of the winds, not after or during (this is key to understand--BEFORE)

4) The winds symbolize specifically the Sunday law decree. We see proof of this from Test. for the Church, vol. 5, p.152.
So we see that the Sunday law cannot form until all the 144,000 are sealed.

And we know that Ezekiel church judgment is the same event. So obviously the slain in the church will not be able to live to see the "release" of the 4 winds (Sunday law. In other words the close of probation for the church.

When we study closely Ezekiel 9 we see that Ezekiel was blown away by the destruction he saw of the angels upon God's church. "Ah, Lord God! Will you destroy ALL the remnant of Israel in pouring out Your fury on Jerusalem?"(9.8)This shows no doubt a vast destruction. Then we see EGW confirm that those would survive to the end are few. (Christian Service, p.41) and (Test.for the Church, vol. 1, p.608-609) And the Lord Himself ("few find the way", Matt.7:13-14)

So once we know this , we can ask why is the church judgment needed before the world's probation closes? When we study deeply the Scriptures and SOP we see that the only reason that can be understood is that the "outpouring of His Spirit" can only come upon a clean church. EGW says beyond doubt that "only those who overcome" by the Lord can be "permitted" to participate in the Loud Cry (Review and Herald, Nov. 19, 1908

" I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen, and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. [CET 176]

Said the angel, "List ye!" Soon I heard a voice like many musical instruments all sounding in perfect strains,...My attention was then turned to the company I had seen, who were mightily shaken. I was shown those whom I had before seen weeping and praying in agony of spirit. The company of guardian angels around them had been doubled, and they were clothed with an armor from their head to their feet. They moved in exact order, like a company of soldiers. Their countenances expressed the severe conflict which they had endured, the agonizing struggle they had passed through. Yet their features, marked with severe internal anguish, now shone with the light and glory of heaven. They had obtained the victory, and it called forth from them the deepest gratitude, and holy, sacred joy. {CET 176.3}
177
The numbers of this company had lessened. Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks. Evil angels still pressed around them, but could have no power over them. {CET 177.1}
I heard those clothed with the armor speak forth the truth with great power. It had effect. Many had been bound; some wives by their husbands, and some children by their parents. The honest who had been prevented from hearing the truth now eagerly laid hold upon it. All fear of their relatives was gone, and the truth alone was exalted to them. They had been hungering and thirsting for truth; it was dearer and more precious than life. I asked what had made this great change. An angel answered, "It is the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, the loud cry of the third angel." {CET 177.2} }"

As I've mentioned, the church that the servants of God call people into in the time of the Loud Cry, can only be a clean church. It's foolish to think He'll allow us to call the people of the world into a sinful church (such as we have now in the SDA). Can you imagine the servants of God calling out the people in "Babylon" to come into our church, which runs hospitals around the world, allowing abortion upon demand?? Who we kidding here?? Certainly not God!

" The minister who has sacrificed truth to gain the favor of men now discerns the character and influence of his teachings.... "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! . . . Behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings." "Howl, ye shepherds, and cry;...The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnation upon the ministers..... The mark of deliverance has been set upon those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done." Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6. The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together. {GC 656.2}

M: I wish I could believe things are wrapping up quickly. But I don't. I see no reason to believe it. I'm fine with it, though. I don't have to believe it to fight the good fight of faith (not saying anyone here does). I am perfectly okay with thinking I might live and die of old age before Jesus returns.

GC: Mike, read the following passage, at least up to through bolded section.

"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner. They are professedly serving God, but they are more earnestly serving mammon. This half-and-half work is a constant denying of Christ, rather than a confessing of Christ. So many have brought into the church their own unsubdued spirit, unrefined; their spiritual taste is perverted by their own immoral, debasing corruptions, symbolizing the world in spirit, in heart, in purpose, confirming themselves in lustful practices, and are full of deception through and through in their professed Christian life. Living as sinners, claiming to be Christians! Those who claim to be Christians and will confess Christ should come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing, and be separate.... {ChS 41.1}

Then Christ gave the parable of the father and the two sons. When the father went to the first son, saying, “Go work today in my vineyard,” the son promptly answered, “I will not.” He refused to obey, and gave himself up to wicked ways and associations. But afterward he repented, and obeyed the call. {COL 274.4}
The father went to the second son with the same command, “Go work today in my vineyard.” This son made reply, “I go, sir,” but he went not. {COL 275.1}
In this parable the father represents God, the vineyard the church. By the two sons are represented two classes of people. The son who refused to obey the command, saying, “I will not,” represented those who were living in open transgression, who made no profession of piety, who openly refused to come under the yoke of restraint and obedience which the law of God imposes. But many of these afterward repented and obeyed the call of God. When the gospel came to them in the message of John the Baptist, “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” they repented, and confessed their sins. (Matthew 3:2). {COL 275.2}

The fact that the 144,000 are ready for the outpouring of the latter rain then they go out and proclaim the end time message with a loud cry proves they must have been judged prior to the outpouring of the Spirit.

We must not skip over the plain "thus saith the Lord". In Rev. 7 sealings, how many from the church does it say are sealed? 144,000. It does not say "And I saw 144,000 and others sealed". Notice it is from ALL of the tribes of Israel, that is inclusive of ALL SDA. It's one thing to wish and hope for "our" ideas to come true. "All" cannot be skipped over.

EGW gives a great Bible instruction on how we are to read it, "The language of the Bible should be explained according to it's obvious meaning, unless a symbol or figure is employed". (GC p.598)

Ellen White makes clear that the SDA church is the Israel of today (Test. vol.9, p.164). Explain what that quote means to you? Show me a quote from EGW where she says that the world (or outside denominations) is the Israel of today.

Also let us not forget that EGW said to "strive with all power God has given us to be among the 144,000".What does that quote mean to you?

"Christ saw in Jerusalem a symbol of the world hardened in unbelief and rebellion, and hastening on to meet the retributive judgments of God. GC 22

"As He warned His disciples of Jerusalem's destruction, giving them a sign of the approaching ruin, that they might make their escape; so He has warned the world of the day of final destruction GC 38

he Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon his law. GC 88

When the early church in apostolic times received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, they too were judged worthy to receive it, did that mean their probation was closed?

M: Number literal. Tribe name symbolic.

D: It's too regular to be literal -- like filling 12 cartoons of eggs.

Very good question and the answer is yes, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit SEALED the waiting disciples on the day of Pentecost.

Sorry brother, (wrong gender) I see only symbolical meaning here from you and your spin on the quotes. Won't be able to address you further as we are not on the same page. One is being guided by the Spirit of Truth one is not, we shall soon see.

"Christ saw in Jerusalem a symbol of the world hardened in unbelief and rebellion, and hastening on to meet the retributive judgments of God. GC 22

"As He warned His disciples of Jerusalem's destruction, giving them a sign of the approaching ruin, that they might make their escape; so He has warned the world of the day of final destruction GC 38

The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon his law. GC 88

Dedication, what is the sealing?

"Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads—it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved—just as soon as God’s people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 4:1161 (1902). {LDE 219.4}

....Does God give His sealing to those who would lose it?----it is more than vital to get it right through the Spirit of Christ, in HIS name.

Another way of looking at it - the number is too specific to be symbolic.

Also, in the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation the number is always literal and the thing associated with it is always symbolic. No exceptions.

Your explanations of the TWO sealings are spot on brother. Certain people think they can sprout off all their knowledge of the Bible yet when a young gal in a mini-skirt sits in front of them in church, they look away and then if they happen to speak to them it's all "Oh you look so nice the Lord loves you" type of speech. Instead of "Excuse young lady may I have a word with you" then let her know that God's sanctuary is holy and that next time they might want to think about dressing more appropriate for church. Believe me He want's us to speak up and show we love Him and want only honor in His house. THAT's what sighing and crying is all about. Oh but how many whistle dixie at the abomination, as if, "It's no big deal". No wonder the number will be only 144,000 from the SDA church!

Nice to meet you Godsloveandlaw, my name is Brother James Tierney. Peace in the name of Jesus.

I was inspired by God how to deal with mini skirts in the sanctuary. I hand my jacket to such young women in churches around the country. No need to say anything, just with a loving look of acceptance hand her the jacket and say "in case your legs are cold"

if we say "I don't believe His prophet John, when he says only 144,000 get sealed from ALL the tribes of Israel"?....
The "Israel" is God's end time people--no guess work here. Ellen White says the the SDA church is --Israel of today, no guess work here. Let those with a lack of the "Spirit of Truth" sprout off, don't fall for their meandering trap.

I simply don't believe the sealing happens at the same point in time as the close of probation which takes place when Christ leaves the sanctuary.

I simply don't believe the sealing happens at the same point in time as the close of probation which takes place when Christ leaves the sanctuary.

Probation Closes When the Sealing Is Finished.

"An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received “the seal of the living God.” The Great Controversy, 613

" The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes, for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided.--2SM 81 (1890).

"When the end of probation comes, the really sad and difficult part is that those who are not on the true path of the church would be in total darkness and not even know they are actually being used as a marionette of Satan."

"The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren and to excite indignation against them. This day is just before us. The members of the church will individually be tested and proved. They will be placed in circumstances where they will be forced to bear witness for the truth. Many will be called to speak before councils and in courts of justice, perhaps separately and alone. {5T 463.2}

The whole world is to be stirred

" The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith and take their stand with its avowed enemies, toward whom their sympathies have long been tending. These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren and to excite indignation against them. This day is just before us. The members of the church will individually be tested and proved. They will be placed in circumstances where they will be forced to bear witness for the truth. Many will be called to speak before councils and in courts of justice, perhaps separately and alone. {5T 463.2}

"It is a solemn statement that I make to the church, that not one in twenty whose names are registered upon the church books are prepared to close their earthly history, and would be as verily without God and without hope in the world as the common sinner."ChS 41

God has shown me that we are in it now. Those who are being swept up in the furver of the false revival cannot see where we are right now.

Duet.31:13 Verily you shall keep my Sabbath: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that they may know that I am the LORD that sanctifies you.
Matt. 24:15 When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand: )
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: