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Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: Mountain Man] #132077
03/23/11 07:51 PM
03/23/11 07:51 PM
J
JAK  Offline OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
How long have you stayed out practicing survival skills?...Do you mind sharing the extent of your outdoor experiences?


I have been going to the bush since before I could drive a car; I would hitch-hike out on Friday and come back Sunday night. In those days, in this country, it wasn't hard to get a ride.

When I was older and drove, I would go out with buddies for the week-end, leave Friday after work and come back Monday morning, usually late.

I was a guide for a few seasons, in which case we would live in camp, sometimes for 2-3 months, depending on how busy it was. But that's not really survival stuff. Some clients wanted to do pack trips (with horses) from base into the hills, so then we'd be gone from the camp for a week or two.

When I was about 17 I got one of these white canvass wall tents, 8' x 12', the kind used at campmeetings and outfitters base camps, and lived in it for about 3 years, until early one morning I awoke to find some large animal in the tent and lacked the presence of mind to let it wander out the way it had wandered in. Long story short, the tent was no longer servicable due to the animals method of leaving.

So that fills the story in a bit.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: JAK] #132081
03/24/11 01:32 AM
03/24/11 01:32 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
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Right on! So, if you don't mind, please describe in some detail your favorite friction fire building method.

Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: Mountain Man] #132085
03/24/11 03:55 AM
03/24/11 03:55 AM
J
JAK  Offline OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
My favorite friction fire method is a strike-anywhere match on the seat of my jeans. ROFL

The only friction method I work with is the bow drill, but receintly I have tried the plow as per our converstation. It might work OK.

If the woods are dry (both the forest and the particular wood I'm using for the equipment) I like wolf willow (preferably) or poplar/aspen for both parts. And alder, I like alder. Usually a piece of 550 makes the bowstring, 'cause I'd rather have my boot laces in my boots, and I can often find a dish-shaped rock with a divot in it for the hand socket. Otherwise any hardish wood, like birch. Reduce friction with a few leaves. Willow, or alder, will also produce a tightly forked branch, which works great for the fireboard. Otherwise I process one out of a branch. Cattail fluf, shreded inner bark of popular/aspen, or other dry material to catch the spark.

If the woods are wet, it's the Zippo.

I do not rely on friction methods AS A SURVIVAL tool to start fires. I think it's a great way to impress people, and don't get me wrong; a lot of outdoor knowledge goes into friction methods: which woods, where they grow, how to make cordage, what to use for tinders, how to process the wood, not to mention the skill developed to get a fire. I am impress by people who can consistently produce a fire in all conditions with these methods. But as I've said, when I really need a fire the woods are probably wet, its cold and raining and usually dark, and I'm in no mindframe to be fussing around with primative fire building methods. I get a shelter up and spark a fire, and all my practice with friction methods has taught me one thing: carry a lighter. But I do like to practice them for fun and learning.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: JAK] #132089
03/24/11 03:56 PM
03/24/11 03:56 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I agree. I always pack stormproof matches, a pocket torch lighter, a metal match flint, and tinder to start fires. Like you, I prefer to use 550 cord to start friction fires. In addition to what you mentioned above, I also like to use a pitch stick for the hand socket. Around here, cottonwood is the very best wood for the spindle drill and fire board. But willow, alder, aspen, hawthorn, pitch-free pine, douglas fir, and cedar work well. In the caribbean, mango works well. In the desert, most yuccas and some agave work well for the hand drill method. Sotol and cottonwood work well for the fire plow method.

When using the bow drill and hand drill methods, how do you prepare the notch on your fire board?

When using the bow drill method, how many times do you wrap the 550 cord around the spindle drill?

When using the hand drill method, have you ever tried using thumb loops?

Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: Mountain Man] #132092
03/24/11 04:56 PM
03/24/11 04:56 PM
J
JAK  Offline OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
I must first say that friction fires are not something I am proficient at. I still like to practice the skill, but I get a flame about once in 20-25 attempts.

If using a tightly forked branch of willow or alder, it creates its own notch if you drill right at the crotch. Otherwise I will do it in the normal way of a notch at the edge of the board and a hollow space under to catch the coal. If I just make a little indent in the board the spindle will cut its own hole, and the notch and hollow provide a place for the coal to drop. I'll put a piece of bark like birch under to help move the coal to the tinder, or sometimes put the tinder nest right under the fireboard.

I wrap the cord once on the spindle, with the spindle on the outside of the cord.

I have never attempted the hand drill method. I have tried the ice lense, the pop can and chocolate, spark and steel wool, rifle and rag, magnifying glass, and a bunch of other ones too bizarre to remember. They were all fun at the time, and they all taught me the same lesson--CARRY A LIGHTER.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: JAK] #132123
03/26/11 12:47 AM
03/26/11 12:47 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
For the first half of a 3/4 inch thick fire board our students use a down sloping pie wedge (slightly smaller than 1/4 of the spindle hole) cut from the outside bottom edge of the fire board pointing to the middle of the spindle hole. Hot dust formed as the students bow runs down the sloping wedge with enough resistance to allow the friction generated heat to create an ember. For the last half of the spindle hole the students reshape the pie wedge flush through the fire board eliminating the slope. In this way the students are typically able to generate 4 embers per hole before they bore all the way through the board thus rendering that hole useless.

Our students wrap the 550 cord twice around the perfectly straight, 10 inch, thumb thick spindle drill. The bow itself is thumb thick, rigidly flexible, and as long as from finger tip to arm pit. They bore a hole through both ends of the bow just big enough to pass the 550 cord through. They tie a stopper knot on the thin end of the bow and an adjustable clove hitch on the other end. They adjust the tension of the 550 cord so that the spindle drill snaps tightly in place when wrapped twice and twisted in place.

While bowing they keep the spindle drill straight and steady. If allowed to wobble wildly about while bowing, it is impossible to generate enough heat to create an ember. Speed (approx three strokes per second) and hefty downward pressure is also required to generate an ember. Right handed people should hold the spindle socket with their left hand and bow with their right hand. They should also kneel on their left knee while using their right foot to hold the fire board in place. They need to reach across their right leg and hook their left thumb and wrist tightly against their right shin while holding the socket.

Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: Mountain Man] #133501
05/16/11 07:37 PM
05/16/11 07:37 PM
J
JAK  Offline OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
I have recently found that 3mm Perlon cord makes a superior string for the bow drill. It grips the wood easier, so you don't need to wrap the spindle so tight, and is easier to manage. It also seems to last forever.

I have replaced the 550 on my handles with Perlon, because the same amount of wraping gives me a longer length of cordage (smaller diameter) and it works as good as 550. The down side is I can't take the Perlon apart like you can the 550 to get the smaller threads inside.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: JAK] #133550
05/18/11 06:38 PM
05/18/11 06:38 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes, I have also had success with 3mm cord. I just finished a 7 day survival class with Union College students in Colorado. We were able to start several bow-drill friction fires using Aspen during a snow storm that dumped 4 inches of snow in 2 hours. At one point, the snow was landing on the fire board while we were bowing the drill. Amazing!

Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: Mountain Man] #133601
05/20/11 04:23 PM
05/20/11 04:23 PM
J
JAK  Offline OP
FORMER-SDA
Active Member 2018
Banned
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 663
Canada
Earlier I mentioned that I was using a tomahawk in place of a large knife. I have since found that a 'hawk is one of the best implements ever conceived for bush use.

This 'hawk is a Cold Steel Rifelman's 'Hawk, sold for about $50.00. At 36 oz. it is heavier than any knife*, and with the long, thin blade it has massive penetration in chopping. The curved cutting edge can be used in the same manner as an Eskimo ulu. The hammer end drives stakes for tarps, shelters, traps, and pegs in camp furniture, chairs, tables etc.

*For comparison, the Busse Battle Mistress is 20.44 oz, and the CS Trailmaster is 16.7 oz.


"All that is Gold does not Glitter, Not all who Wander are Lost." (J.R.R.T.)
Re: Wilderness Skills [Re: JAK] #133643
05/21/11 03:39 PM
05/21/11 03:39 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Thanx for the info. I enjoyed watching the video.

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