Active Threads - Maritime 2nd Advent Christian Believers OnLine Forums Consisting Mainly of Both Members & Friends of the SDA (Seventh-day Adventist) Church

Yesterday at 11:31 PM

Re: The Gospel According To John [by Rick H]

Originally Posted by dedication

John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
7:44 And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him.
7:45 Then came the officers(who had been sent out to arrest Jesus) to the chief priests and Pharisees; and they said unto them, Why have ye not brought him?
7:46 The officers answered, Never man spake like this man.
7:47 Then answered them the Pharisees, Are you also deceived?

Never man spake like this man.

On the last day of the feast, the officers sent out by the priests and rulers to arrest Jesus, returned without Him. They were angrily questioned, "Why have ye not brought Him?" With solemn countenance they answered, "Never man spake like this Man."

Hardened as were their hearts, they were melted by His words. While He was speaking in the temple court, they had lingered near, to catch something that might be turned against Him. But as they listened, the purpose for which they had been sent was forgotten. They stood as men entranced. Christ revealed Himself to their souls. They saw that which priests and rulers would not see,--humanity flooded with the glory of divinity. They returned, so filled with this thought, so impressed by His words, that to the inquiry, "Why have ye not brought Him?" they could only reply, "Never man spake like this Man."

The priests and rulers, on first coming into the presence of Christ, had felt the same conviction. Their hearts were deeply moved, and the thought was forced upon them, "Never man spake like this Man." But they had stifled the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Now, enraged that even the instruments of the law should be influenced by the hated Galilean, they cried, "Are ye also deceived? (Desire of Ages, p.460)

We have many today that are of the same bent, on both sides of this matter..

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General Discussion

Yesterday at 01:25 AM

Re: Global Warming Farce [by kland]

Is anyone else finding there is extra hype about this coming winter storm? Nothing on the radar, but expecting lots of snow, ice, and destruction. They are expecting to break record low temperatures. But just wait for it, they will say it's caused by global warming!
Anyone see the clouds today where it looked like the sky had been vibrated and the clouds showing that pattern?
If it is possible to affect the weather, would "they" actually cause something that would harm people and cause lots of destruction?

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01/22/26 10:24 PM

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [by dedication]

WOES (how does the Bible define woes?) Paraphrased.

Interestingly there are seven woes in Isaiah.

Isaiah 5:8 Woe unto them that strive to get more and ever more land. Their houses will be desolate, their fields will not yield a plentiful harvest.
Could this be the first trumpet? Israel rejecting Christ because they wanted a Messiah who would regain their land for them from the Romans, and continue on to conquer more, making Jerusalem the center.

Isaiah 5:11 Woe unto them that drink and party all day and regard not the work of the LORD, nor fulfill their responsibilities.
They go into captivity, are famished, and dried up with thirst. All their glory, and their pomp, shall descend into it.
Could this be the second trumpet? Rome outwardly becoming Christian, but corruption, and pleasure continued in worldly fashion. Their power was drying up and all their glory and pomp descended like a burning mountain.

Isaiah 5:18 Woe unto them that not only seek after evil, but encourage it in vanity and draw others into evil (figuratively harnessing themselves to a chariot of sin and mocking the idea of retribution) They will see retribution.
Could this be the third trumpet? The church filling their cart with renamed pagan practices and pulling it into the church?

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness
They receive bitter for sweet.
Could this be the fourth trumpet? The church substituting false doctrines and throwing out the true. Substituting darkness for light and persecuting those who followed the light as if they were teaching darkness.

Isaiah 5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Could this be the fifth trumpet? Continuing in the their set pathway, instead of turning to God in repentance and trust. Meanwhile the Turks are coming ever closer, causing more "woe" .

Isaiah 5:22-23 Woe unto them which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
The most severe consequences against such --
Could this be the sixth trumpet? After the fall of Constantinople, it was like a flood of information, Biblical manuscripts as well as other writings streamed out to the world. The reformers preached righteousness in Christ. But the church leadership resisted strongly.
Reformers were called the evil ones, mocked and tortured, while the ones who planned these tortures were presenting themselves as honorable.
. A new wave of Muslims came forth, Ottoman Turks. More terrible in their conquests than even the previous Islamics. It is written in some history books -- "If it wasn't for the Turks, there would have been no Protestants" It was because the papal powers were so busy trying to deal with the Turks, that Protestant Reformers were able to preach,

6:5 Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Could this be the seventh trumpet? The day of real Day of Atonement arrives, the investigative judgment begins. The ark of the covenant in heaven is seen. Inside are the ten commandments. People cry, "woe is me" how can I stand. The three angel's go forth with their message -- righteousness by faith in Jesus. There-in is the coal that cleanse and prepare people to see the King, the LORD of hosts.
The multitudes don't claim it, nations are angry, but Jesus will win, He will reign and those with Him are the called, chosen and faithful .

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01/22/26 09:38 PM

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [by dedication]

The warning angel of Rev. 8:13 shouting "woe, woe woe, to the inhabitants of the earth,"
is situated between the fourth and fifth trumpets. The "man of sin" is sitting in God's place.

One thing we rarely hear is the fourth trumpet not only portrayed the spiritual darkness descending upon the world in 538 AD it was heralded by literal darkness! The time when Emperor Justinian cleared the field for the papacy and by law made him the "head of all churches" with responsibility to deal with "heretics".

Quote

in the year 536, much of the world went dark for a full 18 months, as a mysterious fog rolled over Europe, the Middle East and parts of Asia. The fog blocked the sun during the day, causing temperatures to drop, crops to fail and people to die. It was, you might say, the literal Dark Age.
The Byzantine historian Procopius wrote that ?the sun gave forth its light without brightness, like the moon, during this whole year.? He also wrote that it seemed like the sun was constantly in eclipse; and that during this time, ?men were free neither from war nor pestilence nor any other thing leading to death.?
It came about when volcanic ash blocked out the sun.
?We marvel to see no shadows of our bodies at noon,? wrote Cassiodorus, a Roman politician. He also wrote that the sun had a ?bluish? color, the moon had lost its luster and the ?seasons seem to be all jumbled up together.?
The effects of the 536 eruption were compounded by eruptions in 540 and 547...
This period of cold and starvation caused economic stagnation in Europe that intensified in 541 when the first bubonic plague broke out. The plague killed between one-third and one-half of the population in the Byzantine Empire (www.history.com)

This marked the beginning of the 1260 year period!

A quick review of the next 600+ years before discussing the 150 years of the fifth trumpet. Those 600 years were years of crusades and war!
What was the Christian church doing?

We hear about Emperor Justinian usually in relation to his attempts to reunite the Roman Empire. He enabled the papacy to be over all churches, and helped clear the political field around Rome, so the papacy could take the seat of Rome. But what we don't hear so much is that Justinian was a persecutor. There was persecution against supposed heretics before Justinian, but he made the punishment of "heresy a serious part of imperial Christianity".

"The bishops in attendance at the Synod of Constantinople in 536 recognized that nothing could be done in the Church contrary to the emperor's will and command". To believe differently meant loosing ones property and human rights, exile, and often death.

The Syrian Churches were among the first churches planted and nurtured by the apostles. They were comprised of Jews and Gentiles, and had a rich Judeo/Christian heritage, but they were not always in agreement or in line with the emperor's will and command. They suffered persecution. Large numbers of these Christians fled to Persia or elsewhere.

Then, about 100 years later, came the new Islamic power launching countless crusades against all the countries around them! Islamic Conquests were very successful. The area of the Syrian churches was among the first to be overtaken, with the already battered Syrian Christian churches soon left desolate.

The Byzantines and Persian Empires had worn themselves out with fighting. Into this weakened political scene stormed Islam and conquered considerable territory in Palestine, Asia Minor, then marching clear across Northern Africa and up into Spain and France (Gaul and Burgundy) they seemed unstoppable. The Battle of Tours in France in 711 AD stopped them, or even Europe would have been taken over in the Islamic conquest.

The Byzantine Empire, reduced in size remained.
And in the west there was the papacy and the Holy Roman Empire .
Though they both, east and west, were supposedly both part of the decreed one and only Christian church, they were not in unity. They ended up splitting into two separate church bodies in 1054 AD, resulting from a complex interplay of theological issues, resistance to papal headship, political, and cultural differences.

1204 -- the fourth crusade besieged the Byzantine's capital, Constantinople. They conquered the city, pillaged and robbed it, and set it up as Latin city.
Yes, the fourth Crusade's biggest accomplishment had nothing to do with Muslims, it was the papal armies that besieged, conquered and pillaged Constantinople.

1261 the Byzantines regained Constantinople, But they are weak.
Meanwhile the Mongols from China are sweeping into the middle east. The Islamic regions are suffering considerable loses as the Mongols build an impressive large empire. For a while Byzantine is left in relative peace and are able to rebuild.
Finally the Mongols begin to retreat towards the east, as they find it difficult to maintain their far flung assets. Those Mongols left in the middle east, accept the Islamic religion, and begin to partner with the growing Turks.

I tend to see this whole span from Justinian's decrees enacted in 538 AD to Byzantines near fall and resurrection as the "Dark ages" of the 4th trumpet.

So where is the church when the angel in Rev. 8:13 cries out "woe, woe, woe"?

1. Around 1200 AD The apostolic church is no longer visible.
The Syrian churches have been persecuted by imperial Christianity and then fully destroyed by Islamics.
The western churches who had issues with the papacy have fled into the Alps (into the wilderness) having also suffered persecution by the imperial Christian church.

2. The"head" papal church has risen to it's highest point (in the middle ages at least) in the 13th century. It had come through a mire of trouble within: there had been rival popes, one time there were four popes at once, each declaring they are the true pope, there was quiet an amount of corruption at headquarters.
The Roman church was getting into full swing in making outward trouble, much of it terrible trouble, sending forth many crusades against Muslims, Jews, so called "heretical" Christians, even thinking crusades were a good means of converting pagans, and yes, one crusade conquered Constantinople.
Spiritually -- we've already read of the wormwood gospel and doctrines. Politically, the papacy used his supposed "keys" to eternal life to get the kings and rulers to do his bidding

3. The Byzantine Church, on the other hand, had been existing under the influence of the Eastern Emperor. The issue of church and state combined, with the state having considerable influence over the Patriarch church leader. During the previous centuries the eastern church had been torn between the doctrines from the Bible urged by the Syrian churches and Bishops, who opposed the progressive move the eastern church was taking to accept the papal doctrines.

4. The Eastern Orthodox Church had been given another chance, after nearly being wiped out by the fourth crusade, they were given a short period of peace in which to rebuild. Like we wrote in previous posts, they were given 150 more years. They had made a break from the Papal church earlier, they didn't need to follow Rome's doctrines. Yet, they didn't repent, they continued to develop along the same methods and doctrines as Rome. And so, instead of prospering and being shielded by God's protection, the Ottoman Turks harass them and at the end of the 150 years, destroyed there church and city.

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Bible Study

01/22/26 01:40 AM

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [by Karen Y]

The Second Trumpet and the Second Plague

Quote

Rev. 8:8-9 "The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea,
and a third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed."

The second trumpet discloses the pollution of the sea through a force of destruction depicted as a great mountain burning
with fire, cast with sudden and irresistible power. The imagery conveys both speed and inevitability, suggesting a destructive
influence that cannot be easily restrained once it is set in motion. The sea?representing a vital source of life and livelihood?is
partially corrupted, and the resulting damage becomes visible to those who are spiritually discerning.

Importantly, the judgment under the trumpet is partial, as indicated by the repeated reference to ?a third.? A portion of marine life
perishes, and economic activity is disrupted, yet complete destruction is withheld. This restraint reveals the merciful function of the trumpet:
it does not describe the final judgment itself, but offers a warning snapshot of what will occur when divine restraint is fully removed.

This warning finds its fulfillment in the second plague:

Quote

?The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a corpse, and every living thing died
that was in the sea.? (Rev. 16:3)

When probation closes, the partial warning of the second trumpet becomes total reality. What was once limited now becomes complete.
The restrained judgment is replaced by unrestrained execution.

********Trumpet: one-third affected
********Plague: everything affected

This clear parallel confirms that the second trumpet foretells the second plague. The trumpet functions as a merciful advance warning,
calling humanity to repentance before the irreversible judgment of the plague is poured out.

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Bible Study

01/21/26 11:37 PM

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [by Karen Y]

A Harmonized Interpretive Framework for the Seven Trumpets

Foundational Hermeneutical Principle

Because the seventh trumpet is undeniably future?announcing the close of probation, the fall of Babylon, and the coronation of Christ?all seven trumpets
must be interpreted as future prophetic warnings rather than historical fulfillments.

The seven trumpets form a single, cohesive prophetic unit, escalating in intensity as the world approaches the end of time. They are not isolated
or sequential historical judgments, but a unified end-time proclamation.

Importantly, the trumpets are not judgments poured out. Rather, they are warnings of judgments yet to fall?a profound expression of divine mercy
calling the final generation to repentance before irreversible judgment begins.

The Sanctuary Context of the Trumpets (Revelation 8:3?5)

Quote

?And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints
on the golden altar before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel. Then
the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth, and there were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning,
and an earthquake.? (Rev. 8:3?5)

This opening scene establishes the timing and nature of the seven trumpets. Christ is still interceding in the heavenly sanctuary, mingling incense with
the prayers of the saints. Probation has not yet closed. Mercy is still extended.

While Christ intercedes, the seven angels (messengers) are commissioned to proclaim the trumpet warnings to the earth. This sanctuary setting makes
it clear that the trumpets belong to a period before the final execution of judgment.

The First Trumpet: Warning Before the First Plague

Quote

?The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, and these were thrown upon the earth. And a third of the earth was
burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up.? (Rev. 8:7)

The language of trees and green grass is symbolic and points to humanity under divine warning. In Scripture, vegetation often represents people?especially
in contexts of judgment. The first trumpet therefore warns of a coming judgment upon those who will ultimately receive the mark of the beast and reject God?s final appeal.
This trumpet does not describe the execution of judgment, but rather announces what will happen if repentance is refused.

The Interpreting Parallel: The First Trumpet and the First Plague

Quote

?So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and harmful and painful sores came upon the people who bore the mark of the beast
and worshiped its image.? (Rev. 16:2)

When the first plague is compared with the first trumpet, a clear interpretive parallel emerges:
********The first trumpet warns of devastation coming upon those aligned against God.
********The first plague executes that judgment upon those who have received the mark of the beast.

The trumpet does not fulfill the plague?it foretells it.

This parallelism reveals the function of the trumpet voice:
👉 The trumpets announce; the plagues execute.
👉 The trumpets warn while mercy lingers; the plagues fall after probation closes.

Thus, the first trumpet serves as a prophetic warning of the very judgment that will later be realized in the first plague.

Interpretive Conclusion for the Trumpet?Plague Relationship

The relationship between the first trumpet and the first plague establishes a governing principle for interpreting all seven trumpets:
*******Trumpets are future-oriented warnings, not historical judgments.
*******Plagues are the literal execution of what the trumpets announce.

The trumpet voices interpret the meaning and moral purpose of the coming plagues.

Therefore, reading the plagues alongside the trumpets confirms that the trumpets function as God?s final mercy messages?warning the world
of what is coming and calling all to repentance before judgment falls.

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01/21/26 07:48 AM

Re: 1st quarter 2026 Philippians & Colossians [by dedication]

Mind Implant or Mind Surgery?
Or Mind control?

Those are all worldly things (though sometimes medically helpful) that seem to point to the looming ambition of creating robotic behavior in people.

But a God of love does not desire us to be robotic people. This whole "great controversy" comes about because a God of love desires us to love and choose Him and His righteousness, from the heart and mind that does so willingly and eagerly.

If God wanted programed obedience, he could have easily flipped a few switches in Lucifer's brain to get him producing the right responses. But that is totally opposite of a kingdom filled with genuine love, respect, and relationships.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus..... Philippines 2:5

So how does that mind become part of us?

The lesson suggests we need a changed heart if we want a changed mind: "The Holy Spirit needs to perform heart surgery on us, wielding the "sword of the Spirit" Eph. 6:17 the living and powerful Word of God...

Yes, however,
the Holy Spirit does not force anyone to surgery. The sword is "the Word of God", and the "Word of God" is something we need to read and think about, and pray over.
The Holy Spirit will call to us to encourage us to do that. But we need to make a choice to pick up the Bible and read, or listen to someone reading it, and yes, the Holy Spirit can than work with power to help us see and understand spiritual things! As we understand He will convict us. But again we have a choice, we can quell the conviction or we can take it serious and desire change.
Again we ask the Holy Spirit to help us, and change us.

It's very true: "Only through the Holy Sprit can we really know ourselves because, by nature, our own heart deceives us" (see Jer. 17:9) Only by inviting the Holy Spirit into our lives can we ever hope to "have the mind of Christ".

Thus we are to pray earnestly for the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us.
And we are to fill our minds with the truths of scripture, the truths about Jesus, in order to grow in knowledge of Him. A great plan is to spend a thoughtful time each day dwelling on the story of Jesus as revealed in the gospels.

We also need to be careful not let our minds run in neutral. Cultivate positive thoughts "whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy, think (meditate) on these things (Phil. 4:8 NKJV)

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01/19/26 06:48 AM

Re: 1st quarter 2026 Philippians & Colossians [by dedication]

Lesson Four

Unity Through Humility

Memory Text: "Fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" (Philippians 2:2, NKJV).

Factors of disunity:

Strife (disagreements, arguing, envy, unkindness, suspicion, gossip, covetousness, back stabbing)
Vainglory, (selfish ambition, preforming to look good before the others, pushing others aside for the highest place and honors)
High mindedness (presenting oneself as better or smarter than the others)
Self interest (self comes first)

Factors of unity:

Godly love for one another
Let each esteem the other better than themselves.
Genuinely be interested in uplifting, helping and encouraging others.
Kindness, respect, mercy, believing the best of each person.
Being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind

Paul's remedies:

Philippians 2:21 Seek... the things which are Jesus Christ's.

Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

And we find more remedies in these texts: (texts not quoted, but the thought is there)

Philippians 1:4 Like Paul, always in every prayer, pray for each other, making request with joy.

Philippians 1:9 Pray, that your love may abound more and more in spiritual knowledge

Philippians 1:10 We need the same urgent and loving desire as Paul had for the spiritual growth of each church member, and everyone else.

Philippians 1:6 A positive confidence that He which has begun a good work in each of the church members will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The Source of Unity is Christ, and His love filling our lives flows out to those around us.

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Canadian City Hall

01/19/26 05:19 AM

Re: Canadian Prime Minister Carney seeks partnership with China!!! [by dedication]

From Epoch Times Canada, Jan. 15, 2026

What's Beijing's Core Condition for Better Ties ?

A move forward will depend on rolling back some existing policies and not following the U.S. lead on China, says state backed publication. This messaging by CCP (Chinese Communist Party) comes as the administration of the U.S., President Donald Trump, is pressing ahead with its National Security Strategy seeking to more effectively counter China and remove it's influence in the Western Hemisphere. ....

Beijing is not oblivious to Canada's trade woes with the United States and sees this as an opportunity to use this leverage to peel apart the long standing allies....

If Ottawa still chooses to subject its China policy to the will of Washington again in the future it will render it's efforts to mend ties with Beijing in vain, the CCP added.....

Ottawa banned Huawei from its 5G network in 2022 and took other measures to prevent, or make it more difficult for, Chinese companies to acquire or operate in sensitive Canadian sectors.....

Concerns about Chinese meddling reached a fever pitch in spring 2023, with multiple intelligence leaks in the media portraying widespread Beijing interference. This eventually led to a public inquiry, with the commission's final report calling China the "most active perpetrator of foreign interference targeting Canada?s democratic institutions."....

Source

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01/18/26 10:58 AM

Re: The Gospel According To John [by dedication]

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01/17/26 06:36 AM

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [by dedication]

Let's look at all those angels once more.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Yes, we will see that the trumpets are connected with the three angels' of Revelation 14.
Does the connection show the historicist interpretation is correct, or does it nullify it?
But let's start with angels in Revelation 14 and work backwards to the angels in the trumpets.

THE ANGEL with the "third angel's message" is announced as:
"And the third angel followed them." (Rev. 14:9)
This indicates that there were angels which came before, whom the third angel "followed."

Indeed the third angel followed "another angel" (the second in this sequence) (Rev. 14:8) The third angel followed, this "another angel", indicating neither were the first.

But now go back to Rev. 14:8, we call this angel the first, but the Bible reads:
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven having the everlasting gospel....

"Another angel" means there was another angel before him as well, he was not the first of the angels that brought messages!

What angel went before him? Is there a messenger type angel earlier?
We search back and find no angels in chapters 13,12. In chapter 11:15 there is the trumpet angel, but trumpet angels have their own sequence.

In chapter ten we read: I saw still another mighty angel coming down from heaven...(Rev. 10:1) This is a special messenger-- Jesus Himself. But even He is still described as "another mighty angel".

It's not until we reach Revelation 8:13 that we reach the primal angel, and read: "And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the middle of heaven saying..."This is not "another angel, but, primarily, "an angel."

So we find the sequence:

Primary angel- every angel following him is "another angel"
The angel of Rev. 8:13 is not the same as the angel of Rev. 14:6. The angel of Rev. 14:6 "another angel".

Rev. 8:13 "And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe

"And I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven." Rev. 10:1.

"And I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven ." Rev. 14:6.

"And there followed another angel." Verse 8.

"And the third angel followed them." Verse 9.

Revelation 14:15,17,18 has three more angels, each (another angel came) coming out of the temple.

The Primal (beginning of the sequence) angel appears between the fourth and fifth trumpet.

What has gone on before?
1. The gospel went out in power!
The first church fervently spreading the gospel, but loosing first love.
The first seal releases white horse of pure gospel going froth in spiritual conquest
The first trumpet the first great rejection of the gospel and its consequence of ruin.

2, The persecution ending in a league
The second suffering church
The second seal red -- persecution
The second trumpet -- a league made with the empire that had had persecuted them, that now groomed the papacy but ended up crashing like a great burning mountain.

3. The sliding/drifting into darkness
The third church infiltrated with doctrine of Balaam and Nicolaitans.
The third seal -- black horse and weigh scales, spiritual things are getting harder to find.
The third trumpet -- wormwood water, polluting the living water of life.

4. The gospel eclipsed in a large part of the world
The fourth church Jezebel
The fourth seal horse looking like death
The fourth trumpet darkness, the sun of righteousness eclipsed.

So what do we see at the end of the fourth trumpet? Even though the gospel went out with power, to a large extend at the end of the fourth, the gospel truth is covered in deceptive doctrines and darkness. The beast has been established. Truth is hidden in a large part of the Christian world.

This is when the Primary angel begins the sequence of these "another angel" voicing messages. It begins in the middle of the trumpets.
Two more woes will come to break up the hold of error this beast power has upon the population and give them opportunity to repent. The woes are the result of the majority rejection of Christ and His truth. As more light shines, the more desperately the evil spirits attack. Light when it can't melt the heart, hardens it. Without the protection of Christ (because He is rejected) the people are vulnerable to Satan's malicious hatred and deceptions against the human race.

When the sixth woe ends the Mighty Angel tells people the timelines have all ended, they think that means Jesus is coming, but He doesn't, thus their sweet expectation arising from their Bible study turns bitter. But they must prophesy again. They are not give up in despondency. (Rev. 10:1,6,9-11) They must prophesy again. The three angel's message must yet go forth with it's last call to worship the God of Creation.

Then the seventh trumpet sounds. The time to finish the Mystery of God.
I believe the Spirit of Prophecy which tells us in plain English -- the seventh trumpet began to sound in 1844, at the end of all the timelines. It includes all the end time events.

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Canadian City Hall

01/17/26 04:25 AM

Canadian Prime Minister Carney seeks partnership with China!!! [by dedication]

Canadian Prime Minister Carney seeks partnership with China!

This news has a lot of Canadians reeling in disbelief. If it weren't for the fact it's on multiple news channels one would think it's some AI generated sensational imaginary situation.

Carney going to China to arrange strategic partnership with Beijing to prepare for a "new world order."

Quote

During the meeting, Carney thanked Chinese leader Xi Jinping for his work on the relationship between Ottawa and Beijing in the lead-up to his visit.

"This sets the stage for these important discussions on a wide range of issues where we can be strategic partners," Carney said, adding that Canada is entering a "new era of relations" with China. "I believe the progress that we have made in the partnership sets us up well for the new world order."

He added that his government wants to cooperate with China on issues related to energy, security, people-to-people ties, and multilateralism. (Epoch Times 1/16/26)

"Canada does not belong in Beijing's New World Order. Our people deserve freedom, not subjugation before the Chinese Communist Party." Spoke out one Conservative MP.

Though exactly what Carney meant by "new world order" is not really defined here.

Well, at the moment it seems it's about trade-- canola, lumber, oil, food, EV cars.

Carney is breaking some trading ties, and rules with the USA and establishing them with China.
Sort of telling the US -- if you don't play nice we'll just partner up with your biggest rival.

Trump's response was one of unconcern.
An invitation from Trump for Carney to join the Board of Peace between Israel and Hamas arrived Thursday, as the prime minister was in Beijing to meet with Chinese leaders including President Xi Jinping. Apparently Carney accepts Trumps invitation.

It's all rather confusing.
The big shots are playing games -- are they sitting at the same table?
Just how it will all end we don't know, though it doesn't look good.

During the 2025 election campaign, Carney said China is the number one security threat to Canada. Back then, while discussing establishing trade partners to diversify trade , he had singled out China as not a candidate as they did not share Canadian values.

But now? Suddenly? Instead of going to those other potential places to enhance diversified trade, he goes to China??? And calls them a ?strategic partner.?

Well Trump still wants to annex Canada. If this deal with China escalates into Canada finding itself accepting China "values" and controls as conditions for trade, Trump may find a lot of Canadians supporting his acquisition of the 51st State Dream.
It may all be more Hegelian strategies.

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Bible Study

01/16/26 01:29 AM

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [by Karen Y]

The Sixth Trumpet, the Restraining Angels, and the Culmination of Christ?s Kingship

The probationary structure of the trumpet sequence becomes unmistakably clear when the sixth trumpet is read
in direct relation to both the restraining of the four angels in Revelation 7 and the announcement of the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11.

These passages do not stand in isolation; together they form a coherent prophetic progression that moves from final restraint,
to final warning, to final execution.

Under the sixth trumpet, a divine command is issued from the heavenly sanctuary to ?loose the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates? (Rev. 9:14).
This command must be interpreted in harmony with Revelation 7:1?3, where four angels are seen holding back the four winds of the earth until
the sealing of God?s servants is complete.

The imagery is consistent and deliberate. The four angels are not agents of mercy but of restraint; their role is to prevent the release of final
judgments while probation remains open. As long as they are held in place, the winds of divine judgment?ultimately expressed
in the seven last plagues?cannot be released.

Crucially, even at the sixth trumpet, the restraint is not yet fully removed. Although the command to loose the angels is given, Revelation 9:20?21
reveals that humanity still has opportunity to repent?and tragically refuses to do so. This continued possibility of repentance is decisive evidence
that probation has not yet closed.

The sixth trumpet, therefore, functions as the final warning phase, announcing that the moment of irreversible judgment is imminent but not yet executed.

This is where the seventh trumpet assumes its full theological weight. Revelation 11:15?19 does not depict the beginning of Christ?s reign,
for Christ has reigned since He conquered death and the grave and was exalted to the Father?s right hand. Rather, the seventh trumpet
announces the culmination and public assertion of His universal kingship. What Christ has long possessed by divine right is now declared in heaven
as entering its final, judicial phase.

At the sounding of the seventh trumpet, heaven proclaims, ?The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord
and of His Christ.? This declaration does not signal a transfer of authority but the formal recognition that the time for mercy has reached its limit.
The opening of the heavenly temple and the appearance of the ark of the covenant signify that judgment now proceeds under the authority of God?s
eternal law?not as warning, but as execution.

In this light, the relationship between the sixth and seventh trumpets becomes clear. Under the sixth trumpet, the four angels still restrain the winds
while final warnings sound and repentance remains possible. Under the seventh trumpet, that restraint is no longer emphasized.

The intercessory phase of Christ?s kingship gives way to its executive phase. Mercy, long extended under His reigning authority, yields to justice enacted
under the same authority.
Thus, the entire trumpet sequence is embedded within the reality of Christ?s kingship. The first six trumpets warn the world while Christ reigns
as intercessor, holding back final judgment through angelic restraint. The seventh trumpet announces the moment when that restraint gives way, probation closes,
and the sovereignty already secured by Christ is universally manifested through judgment.

The prophetic movement is therefore unmistakable:

Restrained winds and sealing (Rev. 7) 1-3 => sixth-trumpet warning with continued restraint (Rev. 9) =>
culmination of Christ?s kingship and close of probation (Rev. 11:15?19)=>release of final judgments (Rev. 16).

Read this way, the seven trumpets are not historical echoes of past events but a tightly integrated, future-oriented warning system.
They announce the nearing end of probation under Christ?s reigning authority, culminating in the seventh trumpet when mercy?s appeal
gives way to the execution of judgment.

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01/15/26 06:49 PM

Re: The King of the North [by dedication]

Originally Posted by Charity

Originally Posted by Rick H

This vision begins with a reference to Cyrus and ends with God’s people delivered. Like the other chapters in Daniel it is not just past history but covers from his time to the end of the world.

So, from the 50's to today the church has mostly reverted back to the White view (James). Tim Roosenburg's view is similar to James White but he says the King of the North is the combined forces of Christianity, Catholic and Protestant and that the King of the South is radical Islam. That's a better fit with scripture imo. What are your thoughts?

First we do need to be careful in interpreting prophecy according to the present news reports. I believe that was Uriah Smith's mistake when he replaced the king of the north, from being papal forces, with Turkish forces as the key forces in this prophecy.

However, the news in our time definitely makes one see possibility that we could read Daniel 11:40-45 thus:

11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south (the Muslim powers) push at him (The so called Christian powers): and the king of the north (so called Christian powers, the beast with the second beast, as in USA and others looking to the papacy) shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, (aircraft and bombs) and with horsemen (soldiers, tanks etc) , and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries (not respect their sovereignty, taking control with armies in many countries,), and shall overflow and pass over.

11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land,[/color] (wield control of the so called Holy Land) and many countries shall be overthrown (not just in the middle east, many countries will fall into his hand): but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. (not sure on their identity, but anciently these were all "cousins" of Israel, some will escape)
11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand (seek to dominate) the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. (Egypt is a key part of the Muslim world).

11:43 He shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver (the natural resources, like oil and minerals), and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians, (even Africa will be) at his steps.

11:44 But tidings out of the east (China-- In the news we read China is now seeking to take the place of the USA as the first ranking world power) and out of the north (Russia is definitely playing a rough and aggressive hand at this time) shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. (According to the news, January 2026, we are on the brink, toppling over, into the most fearsome world war this world has ever known)

11:45 And he (this so called Christian force) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; (just how this happens we must wait and see, but the message is clear, he, this so called Christian and papal force, will use the things of God and use Christ's priestly ministry, the call to worship, to seat himself in the seat of God in the quest to dominate the world. Probably he will be taking the focus of futurist prophetic interpretation to verify a deceptive and false fulfillment in Jerusalem)

yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. (God will step in before they move to kill all true followers who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus)

Chapter 12

12:1 And at that time shall Michael (Jesus, our High Priest and the captain of the hosts of heaven) stand up, the great Prince which stands (vindicates and delivers) for the children of thy people: (Romans 8:21 delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God).

and there shall be a time of trouble (the plagues fall but God's people are shielded), such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, (God's children will be delivered) every one that shall be found written in the book (The pre-advent judgment is complete, all those justified and vindicated, whose names are in the book of life will be delivered).

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01/15/26 03:33 AM

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [by dedication]

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation refers to "angel" or "angels" 43 times. (even more if one counts every time the activity of each is mentioned)
The Greek word is "angelos" meaning "messenger". There are millions of angels in God's heaven. Part of their work is to communicate God's wishes to humanity, and do His will in many ways, protecting, and helping as well as communicating.

Not all "angels" refer to actual angels. Their is One glorious Being referred to "as an angel" yet it is Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, He is captain over the whole host of angels. (Joshua 5:14,15) He is much more than what we understand as an "angel" He is our High Priest interceding at the altar of incense as the trumpets are sounding (Rev. 8:2-3) He stands on land and sea as the real owner of this earth (Rev. 10:1)

And who is the "angel" of Rev. 7:2 with the seal of God calling out to "hold the winds of strife" till the sealing work is done? Could it be the Holy Spirit (Eph, 1:13, 4:30)

In the above verse (8:13) there is debate amongst students who have studied Greek manuscripts as to whether it is "an angel" or whether it is a bird of prey (an eagle or a vulture). He announces that three more trumpets are about to sound showing more rejection of Christ's great offer of salvation. Woe, woe, woe -- and the the vultures begin to circle knowing rejection of Christ's gift of life and salvation, means there will be a lot of death. (Compare with Luke17:37)

The woes that come upon the human race is one of misery, pain, suffering, privation, sickness and death. These woes come as a result of their own choice. If the Eastern Church would have learned something from the nature of the Roman church, they would have realized that was not the way nor the truth. Had they thanked God for keeping the Mongols from attacking them when they were scattered after the 4th crusade had turned on them, with serious destruction of their capitol. Had they thanked God for another chance once they re-established the Byzantine Empire, had they returned to the true gospel, things could have been different. But like so many they did not connect the dots that waywardness and sin has serious consequences. They did not realize leaving God's blue print has consequences triggered by their own choice. People blame God and everyone else but do not see it's their choices

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The Search For Truth

01/14/26 05:39 AM

Re: A Review of U.S. Sunday Laws [by dedication]

Heritage Foundation (the same organization that presented "Project 2025" which Trump seems to be following) has just put out a "Special Report" on Marriage and the Family. (January 2026)
They describe rather accurately the sad state in our society where the traditional marriage and family has been eroded. There's the sad state of children missing out on a stable home with both their father and mother. They emphasize the need to restore the family -- the key building block of any good society.
The problem is very real.
But are their solutions what is needed?
One of those solutions is to Unify a day of rest -- Sunday.

Quote

Cultural and Behavioral Obstacles to Family Formation...
Church attendance in the United States has collapsed over the past 50 years with profound consequences for individuals, families, and society....

A greater preoccupation with and demand for consumer goods and experiences have raised the perceived opportunity cost of weekly worship on a weekend as retail and entertainment options have exploded. Blue-law repeals have produced quasi-experimental evidence that when secular substitutes become more accessible, attendance and church giving drop (suggesting that a restoration of blue laws could have a restorative effect).125
Jonathan Gruber, and Daniel M. Hungerman,

Pressure to spend more time at work, either from careerism on one end or inflation on the other, has reallocated evenings and weekends away from neighborhood organizations. These trends have weakened the local social capital that historically supported congregational life.

Research from Harvard University?s Human Flourishing Program (more than 66,000 participants in a 14-year study) showed that regular religious service attendance is associated with 50 percent lower divorce rates in later life.

Quote

Support for a Uniform Day of Rest.
As zoning laws allow a community to determine where one can operate certain businesses, ?blue laws? reflect the local judgments as to when one can operate certain businesses.

In the case of McGowan v. Maryland (1961), the Supreme Court held by an eight-to-one vote that Sunday-closings laws that include the purpose of providing a uniform day of rest are constitutional and can accommodate the fact that the majority of people who take a day of rest for religious reasons do so on Sundays. Massachusetts, for example, requires that ?every employer of labor engaged in carrying on any manufacturing, mechanical or mercantile establishment or workshop...shall allow every person...at least twenty-four consecutive hours of rest...in every seven consecutive days.?
Mass. Gen. Law ch. 149, ? 48.

Blue laws persist in some form in close to 28 states.
?Blue Laws by State 2025,? World Population Review,

These places serve as a sort of legal reservoir. Once their day-of-rest laws are abolished, they are very hard to restore.

A uniform day of rest that limits commercial activity can provide temporal boundaries that help communities to set aside time for religious observance, family gatherings, outdoor activities, and rest. A stable base of research shows that these practices correlate with better mental health, stronger social bonds, and more stable family structures.

With the advent of on-demand delivery, shopping can be shifted easily and conveniently to other days of the week. By restoring a common rhythm of rest and reflection, community rest laws could help to reverse the trend toward ?spiritual homelessness? and foster the social habits necessary for communities to cohere and flourish.

Despite today?s on-demand culture, the U.S. Postal Service does not deliver regular mail on Sundays, most organized youth sports avoid Sunday competitions, and most banks are closed on Sundays. The ever-popular Chick-Fil-A chain closes its restaurants on Sundays for the benefit of its workers and their families. Where new, planned communities or transitioning communities form, they should consider adding rest days as part of their master plans for balanced and thriving community life.

When governments actively protect and accommodate religious practice?through robust conscience protections, religious exemptions, and equal treatment of faith-based institutions?they create an environment in which religiosity can flourish. Studies consistently show that religious liberty protections correlate with higher levels of religious participation and vitality.

Heritage Foundation - Special Report Marriage and Family January 2026
Saving America-saving the Family

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01/13/26 11:19 PM

Re: Jesus reveals God [by dedication]

Anyone who grasps a true understanding of the love of God will also begin to grasp the awful nature of sin. The whole concept of God's love is based on His great sacrifice, and desire to save people FROM sin and fit them for life eternal with Him. It's beyond our comprehension why Someone Who rules the universe and is the source and power and sustainer of everything, would even bother with an unthankful, rebellious, stiff necked people living on a tiny dot somewhere in His immense universe.

And for Christ to go so far in His desire to save them, to suffer not only terrible physical pain and abuse and a terrible death, but also to be rejected, mocked by the very people He had come to give LIFE and salvation. He bore the guilt of our sin and felt those sins separating Him from His Father. ?My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?? (Matt 27:46) It was our sins upon Him that caused God to withdraw His presence from the One He loved. We can't even image the height of anguish this caused our God of love.
He did it because of love for you and me! Christ bore our sins, that He might forgive and restore us into the presence of God.

John 3:17-18 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he does not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
He came that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (3:15)

As I've been studying the seven trumpets, I'm convinced that the events contained in those trumpets are the result of people's (nations) choices and persistence in rejecting the saving truth as it is in Christ. The troubles are not coming from an angry God determined to twist their arms into repentance.

The terrors of those trumpets are the result of their pursuit in rejecting and/or defying God. By doing so they resist the life and deliverance held out to all people to escape as earth plunges on to its destruction. Resisting His salvation loosens the power of evil and allows it to grow and take control. Yes, God wants them to repent -- He is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) that's what salvation is all about, God wanting all to come and realize their true need is redemption in Him, He calls, offering mercy, forgiveness, cleansing, but does not force. People are given freedom of choice.

The trumpets do warn that utter destruction and misery, and all the woes experienced come because truth is spurned and people think the ways of sin bring better results. They don't. Sin is allowed to demonstrate its natural consequences, to show what sin is all about, but somehow multitudes fail to connect the dots. They blame God for the trouble rather than seeing it as the natural result of following paths of sin.

Yes, God wants us to realize He is for us, ready to deliver us from the "land of the enemy". His loving desire is to deliver us from sin and eternal death unto life eternal with Him.
God's laws are not arbitrary, they are laws of love. When followed with hearts of love for God, and for each other, there is a taste of heaven. When spurned thinking one knows better than God, trouble builds up and brings all manner evil results (even if the immediate result seems to have temporal advantages), sin still always leads to misery, broken people, and death).

Yet, because God is love, He cannot simply step back and let sin destroy the world, as sinners, often with satanic fury, work to destroy those who reach out to God. Because God is love, there are limits beyond which sin can not be allowed to go. There are too many people who have responded to His love, who are looking to Him for salvation, and who trust in Him for their care and safety.

It's very true that sin destroys, but it's not only sin on its own that destroys, for sinners imbued with satanic hate try to wipe out God's people and squash all light with their darkness. The actions and hatred against righteousness of those who chose sin above Christ, was demonstrated as they literally murdered their Creator shouting for His crucifixion. It will again fully demonstrate this depth of hatred towards God's way of life before Christ's second coming, with a death decree against all who hold onto God's commands. Sinners will also demonstrate this after the millennium as they march with intentions to plunder the New Jerusalem thinking to take God from His throne.
But even then Christ first reveals to them how much He wanted to save them. How He gave His life that they might be redeemed. But they are hardened, though they deeply regret the consequences, their hearts are not changed. By rejecting Christ they have rejected life (He is the source of life) They will acknowledge that God is just and loving in giving them eternal death, they would never be happy in His kingdom. The don't want the awesome light of purity and righteousness, they want selfish pursuits in darkness.

It is in love that God has restrained and, at times removed, those whose every thought is evil and who have sought to blot out God's goodness and righteousness. That removal too, is a saving act, so people whose hearts are not hardened, may have access to His saving power. And He will do it again when He removes all traces of sin in the end.
It is love that will finally remove all that darkness with the brightness of His coming and eternal abiding with the redeemed. " 2 Peter 3:10 The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." And He will create all things new. He will restore. He desires only good and we can't even imagine all the wonderful things He has in store " Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. (1 Cor. 2:9)
No more sin, no more tears, no more sorrow, no more death, no more sickness, no more wars, no more selfish greed, and taking advantage of others, no more sin, only love, peace, joy, and an everlasting life with the One Who loved enough to give Himself to save.

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01/13/26 10:29 AM

Re: The Gospel According To John [by dedication]

John 7:38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [poured out]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jesus spoke these words at the feast of Tabernacles when Israel celebrated God's leading in the wilderness.
They were remembering that day when the recently liberated Israelites were thirsty and there was no water. Moses was instructed to smite the rock and rivers of water flowed out, enough to supply a camp of a million people with life giving water.

That rock is Jesus
1 Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

When Jesus spoke, He was not yet "glorified". The crucifixion had not yet taken place. The "Rock" was to be "smitten" and then He would return to heaven and be declared to be worthy to redeem all who would believe on Him. (Rev. 5) He would be inaugurated as our High Priest.

During the patriarchal age the influence of the Holy Spirit had often been revealed in a marked manner, but never in its fullness.
But after Christ was "smitten", after Christ had won the victory and by His death and resurrection wrested the dominion of this sin filled earth out of Satan's hands, the Holy Spirit would be poured out in full power upon His waiting, praying followers.

"For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished." (AA 39)

It was as if for ages the Holy Spirit had been held in restraint, but now Heaven rejoiced in being able to pour out upon the church the riches of the Spirit's grace.

The apostles went forth, with power and courage, filled with the Holy Spirit. They spoke with power proclaiming the truth of their Saviour and the plan of salvation, and thousands were convicted and convinced.

The promise of the Holy Spirit is for all Christ's followers:
"He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
The believer himself sends forth streams of living water of spiritual truth. He is filled with a power and life changing convict which, as it is quickened by faith, flows forth as a river, carrying life and refreshment to others.

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01/13/26 08:36 AM

Re: 1st quarter 2026 Philippians & Colossians [by dedication]

Lesson Three
Life and Death
Memory Text: "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21, NKJV)

Paul was willing to die for Christ because he had fully surrendered himself to living for Him.

The lesson deals with three broad points;

1. Living for Christ to glorify His name. Life is not about living for self, but keeping one's focus on Christ, being "hid in Christ", fully on His side in this great battle between good and evil. Being filled with a great desire, and empowered by His grace, to share the gospel of His kingdom with others, by our life or our death. For in Christ is life and salvation.

2. Death of a righteous man can also be a powerful affirmation of the gospel of grace. The gospel offers LIFE -- even though this earthly life ends, the hope of resurrection and eternal life is sure for all who are in Christ. For the redeemed, death is just a moment of sleep as time ceases for them until the resurrection, and the next thing they see is Jesus coming in the clouds, to take His children home.

3. The unity of Christ's followers is important in this battle between good and evil.

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01/12/26 08:29 PM

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [by dedication]

The historicist method of interpreting the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation is at the very base of not only the Adventist prophetic understanding but at the root of Protestantism.

Yet what we see in the Christian world today is an attack against the Historicist interpretation and an undoing of Protestantism. There is a reason this is so.

500 or so years ago there was a very important reformation that allowed light to flood upon the world.
It was precisely about breaking free from a system that turned the living water of the gospel into worm wood and that had obstructed the light of truth from shining upon the world.
It was a return to scripture and the true gospel of salvation that was to go into all the world.
God had his ambassadors all over Europe --Luther, John Knox, Tyndale, and a little later also in America, a land of freedom where truth could be freely followed and obeyed , with powerful preachers like George Whitefield, John Wesley, and William Miller.

However, the system that had controlled the Christian world for centuries, locking away truth and promoting its worm wood polluted water for doctrines in the place of the gospel's water of life, was clearly portrayed and warned against, in those prophecies!
The historicist interpretation of prophesy clearly revealed to the world that this Roman ecclesiastical power was anti-christ sitting as if he were god over God's church.

Those reformers, though they didn't all agree on all their theological points, were united in several key points.

1. The Bible is God's Word of Truth! Not man's traditions and philosophies.
2. Christ is our only Savior, Mediator and Lord, who alone brings us salvation.
3. The pope is the anti-christ as revealed in prophecy.

That did not make the papacy happy.

With great energy and determination they set out to CHANGE the prophecies. The bible was now available to the people to read for themselves, so somehow, they must change those prophecies so they could not expose their identity as the anti-christ. They must get rid of the historicist method of interpretation. Their sacraments had to be embellished and preserved, their priesthood had to be elevated higher.

They organized "orders", the most aggressive being the Jesuits, to rewrite prophecy, and propagate their message, to persecute and reduce opposition, and influence with whatever method they could devise to destroy Protestantism and bring the world back into anti-christ's fold.

Today they have pretty much succeeded. The whole world is looking up to the papacy as the great spiritual leader. Government officials from the nations are bowing before him.

NOW THINK AGAIN OF THE TRUMPETS

Will this future interpretation of the trumpets point people to God?

Where will it lead people who lack the foundation and who hear this teaching that the trumpets are all future happenings of terrible, supernatural and disastrous trouble sent by an angry God to make people repent?

Where will they go to repent?
To what will their repentance, triggered by fear, lead?

Who is the angry one who brings this destruction and terrible time of trouble?
Are the trumpets outlining this future trouble, or is the trouble all part of the seventh culminating trumpet that defines the nations as being angry and destroying the earth, just before the second coming?

Who will be accused of causing the trouble?

Quote

""Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time." Revelation 12:12....
The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction will reach its culmination in the time of trouble. [GC 624)

"destructive power ... will be exercised by evil angels when God permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere. {GC 614.2}

" It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the state ought not to be tolerated"

Those who honor the law of God will be accused of bringing judgments upon the world, and they will be regarded as the cause of the fearful convulsions of nature and the strife and bloodshed among men that are filling the earth with woe. GC 615

So yes, Satan wants the nations to forget the historicist interpretation of prophecy, so he can use those prophecies (and the futurist interpretation of trumpets will suit him just fine) to corral people into his counterfeit system. Corral them into the very system (the system wounded in 1798 by but now healed and powerful) that those trumpets warned against.

It's the third angel's message -- no rest for those who look to this system for deliverance, though most of the world will go there.

In the last days, the pressure to repent and turn to the Catholic coalition will be tremendous. Repent of rebellion against the church supposedly containing the keys of salvation. Yes there will be a terrible time of trouble and with all the "chastisements" and disasters lashing across the land, (all of which are also predicted by Marian apparitions and others) will be used to urge people to repent of their rebellion against the "church". Will people know that the ones offering sanction and acceptance through their sacraments, are actually the anti-christ, not the real Christ at all?

The historicist understanding lets people know exactly what powers to fear and resist.
The counterfeit, with all deceivable power, will use fear and super natural signs and wonders to compel all into their "fold".

The time to seek truth, repent and surrender our lives fully to our Savior Jesus Christ is NOW. The trumpets have been sounding their warning, all through Christian history. For those who come to the last time of trouble unprepared it is too late.

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General Discussion

01/11/26 09:57 PM

Re: A Great American technate and Trump? [by dedication]

The world has been shifting between different "orders" for centuries.

According to John R. Short, emeritus professor of public policies:
"From 1815 to 1880, the United Kingdom was the undisputed world superpower, with an empire and navy that spanned the globe.
The period from 1880 to 1945 was one of imperial rivalries as other countries ? largely European and the U.S. ? sought to copy Britain?s success and replace its dominance.
During the period from 1945 to 1991 we had a bipolar world of two competing superpowers, the Soviet Union and the U.S.

The fall of the Soviet Union was the beginning of a brief period, from 1991 to 2008, of a unipolar world centered on U.S. global dominance, military power and economic might. In the unipolar order, the U.S. promoted a frictionless free trade arrangement and economic globalization."

Since 2008 things have been shifting again!

Economic Nationalism is replacing Free Trade.
1.China is making giant steps to becoming a major super power, some fear they will even supplant the USA.
2. And of course, the USA is very much in the game!
3. Russia is battling to regain lands (Ukraine) lost when the Soviet Union fell.
4. Europe is strengthening it's ties and increasing their militaries. (They want Ukraine in their Technate)

5. The Muslim World, stretching across North Africa and the Middle East have infiltrated pretty well every country.

So What basically is this NEW GOVERNMNET STYLE?
A technocracy is basically a whole new way of government. It's based on technology, with digital currency and a transformed government into a ?digital state.? It proposes basic incomes and the distribution of goods and services based on engineering and scientific calculations of need and sustainability.
Money would not be based on gold or oil, but on energy units which would be allotted to each person.

Covid-19 era tried to follow several technocrat ideals. They wanted experts to be in charge. Common people don't know what they need they need to follow the best available scientific knowledge. And whose expertise was recognized by others in their fields. There was no place in technocracy's world for the kind of debates as to whether the solution was safe or effective. Once fully implemented the new government would end hysteria and refusal to follow Covid-19 lock downs. It would make mandatory vaccination, social distancing, masking, and other health guidelines put out by experts such as Dr. Fauchi and the World Health Organization.

The technocracy has many fascist principles -- like: no need for representation, or Politians or voting people into government positions. Capitalism goes out. Science and technology knows best, just do what is required.

Are we heading that direction? Some say it's already here, in the process of being implemented?

Example:
A person in Canada in order to work at certain jobs, needs a "background check".
The process of getting this check is via computer which sends out forms for petitioner to fill out and return via computer.
Those filled in forms are sent to New York, USA. Where they are processed, and hopefully clear the person so he can accept the job opportunity.

Everything seems to be getting digitalized!

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General Discussion

01/11/26 01:36 AM

A Great American technate and Trump? [by dedication]

Quoting
" In one fell swoop, President Trump has just traced out Technocracy's mystery map of the North American Technate, which stretched from Greenland to just beyond Panama....
Let's review the highlights first:

Trump offers to buy Greenland but doesn't rule out force to get it.

Trump says that the U.S. is going to reclaim the Panama Canal from the Chinese and Panama, and again, he doesn't rule out force to get it

Trump announced a name change from the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.

Trump states intent to make Canada into the 51st state?

And now -- Trump seems after Venezuela?

https://www.technocracy.news/is-tru...m-to-create-the-great-american-technate/

"For Canadians, the message is clear: sovereignty is under siege. Trump is just saying the quiet part out loud."

"As for Greenland? Trump's bravado about "buying " feels less like comedy and more like foreshadowing. The Arctic isn't just about ice, it's about resources, shipping routes, and global dominance. The chessboard is set, and the elites are betting you won't see the move until it's too late."

What just happened in Venezuela for oil? New speculative maps of the technocracy now have Venezuela with it's resources, sketched in with Panama as all part of the North American Technate.

And what does it all mean in a prophetic understanding?

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