Reversing Type 2 Diabetes

Posted By: Wendell Slattery

Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 05/20/16 10:27 PM

Recent research has shown that people who become type 2 diabetics on the average gain 2 grams of fat in their pancreas, and once they do that, then the body becomes diabetic. It is believed by some scientists that somehow the small amount of extra fat changes the way the pancreas works. There is no drug that will remove fat exclusively from the pancreas, though it would be wonderful if such a drug existed, but unfortunately, it does not. So, as an alternative, several organizations have tried to find was to reverse type 2 diabetes through diet.

Note that some individuals will become diabetic will a gain of less than 2 grams of fat while others will need more. It varies, but the average is 2 grams of fat.

The link below will take you to a web site of one such organization and will also give you information about how you can do the same thing.

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm

If you are type 2 diabetic and decide you want to do this, be absolutely sure you do this in cooperation with a doctor. If you don't, you may find yourself in serious trouble.

It is not known exactly how this gain of fat causes diabetes, but it does appear to do so. However, there may be a better explanation. It is known from other research that when fat tissue increases, the fat cells put certain receptors on their surfaces which in turn activate macrophages. These in turn cause changes in the behavior of the immune system that is normally present in the fat tissue from what scientists call a Th2 state (which if present in the lungs or nose or blood is called an allergy state) to the Th1 state, which is the normal state of the immune system in the rest of the body, but is abnormal for fat tissue. This change causes inflammation in the fat tissue which in turn causes insulin resistance. My guess is that the gain of 2 grams of fat in the pancreas is a marker of when this change occurs in the fat tissue. Either way, reducing the fat in the pancreas will reverse diabetes in nearly 80% of those who do this. The remaining cases probably have other causes related to genetics that control the insulin and glucose signaling system inside the cells of the body.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 05/22/16 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Wendell Slattery
Recent research has shown that people who become type 2 diabetics on the average gain 2 grams of fat in their pancreas, and once they do that, then the body becomes diabetic. It is believed by some scientists that somehow the small amount of extra fat changes the way the pancreas works. There is no drug that will remove fat exclusively from the pancreas, though it would be wonderful if such a drug existed, but unfortunately, it does not. So, as an alternative, several organizations have tried to find was to reverse type 2 diabetes through diet.

Note that some individuals will become diabetic will a gain of less than 2 grams of fat while others will need more. It varies, but the average is 2 grams of fat.

The link below will take you to a web site of one such organization and will also give you information about how you can do the same thing.

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm

If you are type 2 diabetic and decide you want to do this, be absolutely sure you do this in cooperation with a doctor. If you don't, you may find yourself in serious trouble.

It is not known exactly how this gain of fat causes diabetes, but it does appear to do so. However, there may be a better explanation. It is known from other research that when fat tissue increases, the fat cells put certain receptors on their surfaces which in turn activate macrophages. These in turn cause changes in the behavior of the immune system that is normally present in the fat tissue from what scientists call a Th2 state (which if present in the lungs or nose or blood is called an allergy state) to the Th1 state, which is the normal state of the immune system in the rest of the body, but is abnormal for fat tissue. This change causes inflammation in the fat tissue which in turn causes insulin resistance. My guess is that the gain of 2 grams of fat in the pancreas is a marker of when this change occurs in the fat tissue. Either way, reducing the fat in the pancreas will reverse diabetes in nearly 80% of those who do this. The remaining cases probably have other causes related to genetics that control the insulin and glucose signaling system inside the cells of the body.


This is the first time I've heard this. We need spend a lot more money on research of these types of issues.
Posted By: Wendell Slattery

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 05/24/16 10:01 PM

I am not surprised that you have not heard about this. Most doctors do not know about it, but given the amount of research materials that they are expected to read to keep up, it does not surprise me.

I accidentally ran across the information concerning the macrophages and the change in the immune system inside the fat tissue when I was looking into research on what are called the M1 and M2 state of the macrophages in the immune system. Though I was primarily interested in that information in relation to the lungs, this research came among it. I was very surprised to learn that the state of the immune system in the fat tissue is normally a Th2 state. That is what is called an allergic state anywhere else in the body, so it surprised me that it would be that way normally in the fat tissue.

My own thinking is that it might be possible to develop a chemical that blocks the receptor for the macrophages and combine it with something which targets the fat tissue and causes apoptosis (cell death) so as to reduce the fat tissue overload. This would have the same effect as losing weight on the diabetes.

However, I also think that a lot more research needs to go on in regard to the bacteria in the gut because they do have quite a bit to do with body weight. There have been people who have been doing bacterial transplants from one person's colon to another as a means of treating certain diseases, especially intestinal related diseases, and doing it with some degree of success. However, some interesting side effects have been noted. One case that has been noticed is that of a woman who got a bacterial transplant from her adult daughter, who was rather heavily overweight. The recipient of the transplant, her mother, had never been overweight, BUT, after receiving the transplant, within 6 months she gained 30 pounds without having changed her diet or the amount of food she was eating or the amount of exercise she was doing. This clearly tells me that the bacteria in the gut have a whole lot to do with body weight, but unfortunately, not much is known about which bacteria are responsible for this effect.

Just recently I read of a man who decided to do the same thing for his irritable bowel syndrome. He got bacteria from a friend. Well, it worked quite well as his condition was essentially cured. But what is interesting is that within a relatively short time, he unexpectedly lost 10 pounds of excess weight without changing his diet or food intake or exercise level. Thus, again, the bacteria caused this effect.

So, it is my thinking that a whole lot of good could be accomplished by doing more research into the bacteria in the gut and how they can control the body weight. Research has already shown that bacterial transplants in diabetics improve their condition, but I think this could be taken even further if we just knew more about it. We should be able to force the weight off simply by changing the bacteria in the gut. This would be a whole lot easier on the patient!
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 05/25/16 01:55 AM

Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.
Posted By: Wendell Slattery

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 05/25/16 10:51 PM

kland, It is not as simple as that. As I pointed out, there are bacteria in the gut that have a major impact on current health. Changing the diet will change the bacteria to some degree, but you cannot get bacteria there that are not there in the first place. Thus, we do need research to help people with these problems.

Not everybody in the world reads Ellen White nor is it likely that they'll do as you suggest. You seem to border on the idea that Adventist doctors basically let people die because they won't do what needs done. I don't think that is right to do. There are ways to help them that can make the process a lot easier, but it will take some research, research information that is NOT given to us by Ellen White.
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/03/16 06:42 PM

Again, Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

Do you think someone who has had a tracheostomy and still insists on smoking should be helped with holding the cigarette in his trach?

Should people be let to die who do not wish to live, those who refuse to choose life? Hmmm. Interesting question you bring up.

As far as research goes, what amount of research do you need to show you that eating healthy is the best choice? Research has already supported what the Bible and Ellen White has given us. Why do you reject the obvious?
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 03:53 AM

Originally Posted By: kland
Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.





Apparently one can eat a healthful diet and still have blood sugar problems. Both my parents and one grandma had diabetes. Type 2. I have eaten a healthy vegetarian diet since I was 18 (I am now almost 62) and a healthy vegan diet for the last 25 years or so. I have not eaten candy, cookies, or other junk food since around age 18 and raised my kids not to be junk food eaters.

I am 5'8" tall and weigh 120 lbs. A few years ago, I started having high blood sugars after meals and still do if I don't restrict carbs. Keep in mind that I haven't eaten bad carbs for decades. My only beverage is water. Sometimes unsweetened herb tea medicinally. I'm talking about whole grains, beans, fruits. My fasting blood, so far, is excellent.

I know that stress is a huge factor in developing diabetes and I've had a good bit of it through my life. Now my older daughter who weighs about 117 lbs is having the same problem. Something is going on besides a bad diet! Our diet is excellent. We grow much of our own food, organically, keep as many chemicals as possible out of our lives, etc.
Posted By: Rick H

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 04:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Wendell Slattery
Recent research has shown that people who become type 2 diabetics on the average gain 2 grams of fat in their pancreas, and once they do that, then the body becomes diabetic. It is believed by some scientists that somehow the small amount of extra fat changes the way the pancreas works. There is no drug that will remove fat exclusively from the pancreas, though it would be wonderful if such a drug existed, but unfortunately, it does not. So, as an alternative, several organizations have tried to find was to reverse type 2 diabetes through diet.

Note that some individuals will become diabetic will a gain of less than 2 grams of fat while others will need more. It varies, but the average is 2 grams of fat.

The link below will take you to a web site of one such organization and will also give you information about how you can do the same thing.

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm

If you are type 2 diabetic and decide you want to do this, be absolutely sure you do this in cooperation with a doctor. If you don't, you may find yourself in serious trouble.

It is not known exactly how this gain of fat causes diabetes, but it does appear to do so. However, there may be a better explanation. It is known from other research that when fat tissue increases, the fat cells put certain receptors on their surfaces which in turn activate macrophages. These in turn cause changes in the behavior of the immune system that is normally present in the fat tissue from what scientists call a Th2 state (which if present in the lungs or nose or blood is called an allergy state) to the Th1 state, which is the normal state of the immune system in the rest of the body, but is abnormal for fat tissue. This change causes inflammation in the fat tissue which in turn causes insulin resistance. My guess is that the gain of 2 grams of fat in the pancreas is a marker of when this change occurs in the fat tissue. Either way, reducing the fat in the pancreas will reverse diabetes in nearly 80% of those who do this. The remaining cases probably have other causes related to genetics that control the insulin and glucose signaling system inside the cells of the body.
Nothing "reverses" type 2 diabetes, it can reduce the level but it still remains.
Posted By: APL

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 04:32 AM

Originally Posted By: rick h
Nothing "reverses" type 2 diabetes, it can reduce the level but it still remains.
Nothing reverses Type 1 diabetes. Type 2 can be reversed and often with in days or weeks on the right diet. Type 1 Diabetes comes from destruction of the Islet cells in the pancreas so that the pancreas does not produce insulin. Type 2 patients become resistant to insulin.
Posted By: Rick H

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: rick h
Nothing "reverses" type 2 diabetes, it can reduce the level but it still remains.
Nothing reverses Type 1 diabetes. Type 2 can be reversed and often with in days or weeks on the right diet. Type 1 Diabetes comes from destruction of the Islet cells in the pancreas so that the pancreas does not produce insulin. Type 2 patients become resistant to insulin.
Not reversed, but reduce the damage, Type 2 stays just at lower levels so the damage to the kidneys and other organs is less, but if you were to eat any high levels of sugar, the damage would again being and start to appear on your charts, trust me I have "reversed" it several times.
Posted By: Rick H

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 01:48 PM

Originally Posted By: daylily
Originally Posted By: kland
Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.





Apparently one can eat a healthful diet and still have blood sugar problems. Both my parents and one grandma had diabetes. Type 2. I have eaten a healthy vegetarian diet since I was 18 (I am now almost 62) and a healthy vegan diet for the last 25 years or so. I have not eaten candy, cookies, or other junk food since around age 18 and raised my kids not to be junk food eaters.

I am 5'8" tall and weigh 120 lbs. A few years ago, I started having high blood sugars after meals and still do if I don't restrict carbs. Keep in mind that I haven't eaten bad carbs for decades. My only beverage is water. Sometimes unsweetened herb tea medicinally. I'm talking about whole grains, beans, fruits. My fasting blood, so far, is excellent.

I know that stress is a huge factor in developing diabetes and I've had a good bit of it through my life. Now my older daughter who weighs about 117 lbs is having the same problem. Something is going on besides a bad diet! Our diet is excellent. We grow much of our own food, organically, keep as many chemicals as possible out of our lives, etc.
This has been my experience, good diet, but still diabetes has crept up. Stress has been a big factor and age also appears to have a affect, as most of my family line and brothers and sisters begin to show the symptoms as they got older.
Posted By: Elle

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: daylily
Originally Posted By: kland
Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.





Apparently one can eat a healthful diet and still have blood sugar problems. Both my parents and one grandma had diabetes. Type 2. I have eaten a healthy vegetarian diet since I was 18 (I am now almost 62) and a healthy vegan diet for the last 25 years or so. I have not eaten candy, cookies, or other junk food since around age 18 and raised my kids not to be junk food eaters.

I am 5'8" tall and weigh 120 lbs. A few years ago, I started having high blood sugars after meals and still do if I don't restrict carbs. Keep in mind that I haven't eaten bad carbs for decades. My only beverage is water. Sometimes unsweetened herb tea medicinally. I'm talking about whole grains, beans, fruits. My fasting blood, so far, is excellent.

I know that stress is a huge factor in developing diabetes and I've had a good bit of it through my life. Now my older daughter who weighs about 117 lbs is having the same problem. Something is going on besides a bad diet! Our diet is excellent. We grow much of our own food, organically, keep as many chemicals as possible out of our lives, etc.

Hi Daylily, I've read your gardening post. Very nice garden size! It's been years I've wanted to adopt your gardening protocol (3 years rotation plan where two years are in cover crops). I need to triple the size of my garden to do this which I would end up with the size of yours.

Concerning health problems on a vegan diet; there are unhealthy vegan diets. Avoiding processed vegan foods and sweets like you do are excellent. But one thing you didn't mention (and you don't have to either as it is none of our businesses) a vegan diet can be too heavy on the grain side. What I understand that the ideal ratio of veges(& fruits) to grain/hi-starchy foods should be 80/20.

Now if we look at a diet in terms of what foods are alkaline versus acidic -- Veges tends to be all alkaline whereas grains, Beans/soya products, and nuts are acidics. So it is said also that the ideal alkaline to acidic foods ratio is also 80/20.

So a vegan diet can still be quite acidic which would lead to some sort of health problems eventually. In my understanding, the ideal healthy vegan diet should be 80% veges and 20% grain-beans-nuts.

I agree with kland and do believe that type 2 diabetes, cancer, heart diseases and most other lifestyle related health problems can be reverse by bringing our lifestyle closest to the Lord's blueprint given after sin.

Just a side note that most of you already know but it's worth repeating -- diet & exercise are not the key components of a healthy life -- but a clean, peaceful & happy spirit & heart. Fears, stresses, emotional distresses, etc.... affects greatly our body. So if someone reaches this ideal vegan diet but are in a emotional distress and much stress while doing so ... it's not going to improve their health much and most probably add to their problems broken relationships because the one trying to achieved this ideal diet were cranky or other negative spirited attitude while doing so.
Posted By: APL

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: rick h
Not reversed, but reduce the damage, Type 2 stays just at lower levels so the damage to the kidneys and other organs is less, but if you were to eat any high levels of sugar, the damage would again being and start to appear on your charts, trust me I have "reversed" it several times.
Sugar is not the problem, FAT is the problem. Yes, Diabetes is manifested as high blood sugars, but the primary cause of DM2 is NOT sugar.
Posted By: Rick H

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/04/16 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: rick h
Not reversed, but reduce the damage, Type 2 stays just at lower levels so the damage to the kidneys and other organs is less, but if you were to eat any high levels of sugar, the damage would again being and start to appear on your charts, trust me I have "reversed" it several times.
Sugar is not the problem, FAT is the problem. Yes, Diabetes is manifested as high blood sugars, but the primary cause of DM2 is NOT sugar.
Yes, I meant foods that break down into sugar. I can only say that my brother and father were always thin, little fat anywhere, and yet slowly it developed, even with a good diet, so its not as simple as that...
Posted By: APL

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/05/16 02:20 AM

Originally Posted By: rick h
Yes, I meant foods that break down into sugar. I can only say that my brother and father were always thin, little fat anywhere, and yet slowly it developed, even with a good diet, so its not as simple as that...
Food that breaks down to sugar - you mean starches? Starches are NOT the problem FAT is the problem. You say they ate a "good diet", but have not defined that and that is an issue because many (most?) who think they are eating a "good diet" but are they really? Example: Researchers found a stepwise increase in risk the more and more eggs people ate. Eating just a single egg a week appeared to increase the odds of diabetes by 76%. Two eggs a week appeared to double the odds, and just a single egg a day tripled the odds, three times greater risk of type 2 diabetes. But the whole diet is important...
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/05/16 02:10 PM

Hi Elle! I'm glad you've been inspired by my garden post!

I probably did eat too much grain but I don't now; I can't! My daughter and I have been gluten-free for nearly a year now. I feel better in several ways. But even when I first learned about the blood sugar issues, I had to cut way back on grains to control it. I still miss the grains.

I agree that emotions, stress, etc are a huge factor. One can develop diabetes just from stress. I've been learning a lot about the effects of stress and negative emotions and I believe it's far more dangerous than we have thought.

I agree with Rick H. that diabetes is not that simple. My husband's aunt is a tiny little thing and developed diabetes about ten years ago. She is now in her 70s and still controlling it with diet and lots of exercise and no medication.

I never did eat a high fat diet. I endured much mocking and cooking advice from DH's family because I didn't cook with butter or margarine or oil. They thought every pot of cooked veggies had to have at least a half a stick of margarine or 1/2 cup of vegetable oil!
Posted By: Elle

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/06/16 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: daylily
I have eaten a healthy vegetarian diet since I was 18 (I am now almost 62) and a healthy vegan diet for the last 25 years or so. I have not eaten candy, cookies, or other junk food since around age 18 and raised my kids not to be junk food eaters.

I am 5'8" tall and weigh 120 lbs. A few years ago, I started having high blood sugars after meals and still do if I don't restrict carbs. Keep in mind that I haven't eaten bad carbs for decades. My only beverage is water. Sometimes unsweetened herb tea medicinally. I'm talking about whole grains, beans, fruits. My fasting blood, so far, is excellent.


I re-read your initial post that I quoted above which I think is quite valuable information for us all. I appreciate you sharing your experience as you have lived the "ideal" lifestyle that our health institutes promotes for most of your life with your diet, staying away from chemicals, sweets, and fats. Personally, I have followed the vegan diet at home for over 30+ years but did allow the occasional sweets and cooking with maple syrup(from my trees) and olive oil and coconut oil. Since I have strayed within my witness, I believe yours is more valuable by being more close to the ideal diet that our Church promotes in general for so many years.

Few people in our Church has followed our Adventist "ideal" diet & lifestyle faithfully for a long period of time like yourself; so few can really confirm or say if our "ideal" lifestyle is correct or if it needs further adjustment. By your experience, you have discovered that another step is needed to be taken by reducing grain. That's has been my hunch for the past 15+ years, that our "ideal" diet was still too heavy on the grains & starchy foods.

Originally Posted By: daylily
I probably did eat too much grain but I don't now; I can't! My daughter and I have been gluten-free for nearly a year now. I feel better in several ways. But even when I first learned about the blood sugar issues, I had to cut way back on grains to control it. I still miss the grains.


It's hard to have less grain with all our traditional dishes despite being veganized are still very heavy on the grain side by design. I miss grain also. I now had to totally abandon all grain (except the occasional quinoa) and my maple syrup because of breast cancer. So I totally empathize with you about missing the grain.

Originally Posted By: Apl
Sugar is not the problem, FAT is the problem. Yes, Diabetes is manifested as high blood sugars, but the primary cause of DM2 is NOT sugar.

I agree with APL here. When I was working at Weimar Institute in research 25+ years ago, that's what the scientific papers were showing then. However it's sad that this information is still not passed down to the general public and people still believe sugar is the main contributor to diabetes II. No it's not, fat is -- and it was proven by a study where students volunteered eating a super high fat diet and within months they showed beginning stages of diabetes. The speculation was that the hi-fat in the blood stream might of covered the insulin receptors of the cells making them temporary non-functional.

Originally Posted By: daylily
I agree that emotions, stress, etc are a huge factor. One can develop diabetes just from stress.

If I recall correctly, stress releases platelets by which their composition are mainly fatty acids -- thus fats. So emotional stress must release these also.

Originally Posted By: daylily
I've been learning a lot about the effects of stress and negative emotions and I believe it's far more dangerous than we have thought.

I don't think you are overstating yourself at all. I believe (and much scientific studies have shown it) it is a HUGE factor in disease and health.

Originally Posted By: daylily
I agree with Rick H. that diabetes is not that simple. My husband's aunt is a tiny little thing and developed diabetes about ten years ago. She is now in her 70s and still controlling it with diet and lots of exercise and no medication.

Yes, I agree also. There's many factors to keep in check. Just changing our diet is not simple at all either. We all experienced that. How many of us succeeded to do it without the emotional stress? Foods are highly related to our pass experiences -- meaning foods are very imprinted in our brain which releases hormones when eaten. To remove the the bad foods that are imprinted in our minds and to add new foods with no pass positive memories attached to them -- will not produced oxytocin and other hormones that gives you the sense of satisfaction.

Originally Posted By: daylily
I never did eat a high fat diet. I endured much mocking and cooking advice from DH's family because I didn't cook with butter or margarine or oil. They thought every pot of cooked veggies had to have at least a half a stick of margarine or 1/2 cup of vegetable oil!

Despite I believe fat is a big factor, however it is not the only factor. As you have witnessed yourself, emotional stress would be another one that I would put on the top of the list. Fear (like the fear of not being saved because our performance is lacking) would be another that Christian suffer greatly compare to non-believers.

The thing that I disagree in this discussion is when someone says that Diabetes II (the same goes with any other lifestyle related diseases) CANNOT BE REVERSED. I think such a statement is serious in itself and shows the lost of hope -- another BIG contributing factor.

I personally believe the Lord can heal anyone without any lifestyle changes like shown in the Bible. I have met some cancer survivors that were healed spontaneously. I must admit that I have never met anyone being instantaneously healed of DB2, but have witness many at Weimar that have seen amazing results with only 19 days on being on the program and have met alumnies symptom free that have stayed with the program for years after.

However, the point here, is do we believe the Lord can heal us? Regardless if the healing is instantaneous or long-term with a lifestyle changes (== repentance) and being given a new spirit? If we don't believe; then we have lost another important contributing factor to our recovery -- hope. We all loose hope now and then. That's when we need our sisters and brothers hope to help us regain ours.

Warm blessings!
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/07/16 03:09 PM

If I recall correctly, it seemed that poster was not exactly saying DB2 couldn't be reversed. One can be symptom-free as long as they stay with the program but DB2 will "come back" if you eat a "normal" diet. Perhaps some think "cured" instead of reversed. It really isn't cured because, at least to me, cured would mean I could eat all the fruit and grain I want and still have normal blood sugar. smile
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/07/16 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: kland
Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.





And this is sad, but true in some cases. And a change of heart and mind is only possible through God. We need to pray for these people to look for help from God Himself.
Posted By: Alchemy

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/07/16 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: rick h
Not reversed, but reduce the damage, Type 2 stays just at lower levels so the damage to the kidneys and other organs is less, but if you were to eat any high levels of sugar, the damage would again being and start to appear on your charts, trust me I have "reversed" it several times.
Sugar is not the problem, FAT is the problem. Yes, Diabetes is manifested as high blood sugars, but the primary cause of DM2 is NOT sugar.


Excellent post, APL.
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/08/16 12:46 AM

Originally Posted By: daylily
Originally Posted By: kland
Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.





Apparently one can eat a healthful diet and still have blood sugar problems. Both my parents and one grandma had diabetes. Type 2. I have eaten a healthy vegetarian diet since I was 18 (I am now almost 62) and a healthy vegan diet for the last 25 years or so. I have not eaten candy, cookies, or other junk food since around age 18 and raised my kids not to be junk food eaters.

I am 5'8" tall and weigh 120 lbs. A few years ago, I started having high blood sugars after meals and still do if I don't restrict carbs. Keep in mind that I haven't eaten bad carbs for decades. My only beverage is water. Sometimes unsweetened herb tea medicinally. I'm talking about whole grains, beans, fruits. My fasting blood, so far, is excellent.

I know that stress is a huge factor in developing diabetes and I've had a good bit of it through my life. Now my older daughter who weighs about 117 lbs is having the same problem. Something is going on besides a bad diet! Our diet is excellent. We grow much of our own food, organically, keep as many chemicals as possible out of our lives, etc.
This does appear that you have a situation unusual from the norm. Lot's of times when people say they eat "healthy", that means they drink "organic" soda. But with eating no animal products, eating the whole grains, and I'm assuming not much processed food, it does sound unusual to me.

Glad to hear your fasting blood is excellent. Do you do a test right after meals to know you have high blood sugar?
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/08/16 12:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: rick h
Nothing "reverses" type 2 diabetes, it can reduce the level but it still remains.
Nothing reverses Type 1 diabetes. Type 2 can be reversed and often with in days or weeks on the right diet. Type 1 Diabetes comes from destruction of the Islet cells in the pancreas so that the pancreas does not produce insulin. Type 2 patients become resistant to insulin.
Not reversed, but reduce the damage, Type 2 stays just at lower levels so the damage to the kidneys and other organs is less, but if you were to eat any high levels of sugar, the damage would again being and start to appear on your charts, trust me I have "reversed" it several times.
Not exactly what you're saying here.

Do you mean like there's no way to reverse obesity, that if one starts back with supersizing big Macs obesity will start appearing again, as many have done repeatedly?
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/08/16 12:56 AM

By the way, while most obese people probably have diabetes, it doesn't mean thin people eat a healthy diet. Some people can get by eating poorly and it not show. Eating a "vegetarian" diet is not necessarily a healthy diet. But eating something like fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains prepared in as a simple and natural a manner as possible....
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/08/16 02:27 AM

Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: daylily
Originally Posted By: kland
Spend a lot more money on research? Why? We've already been given the solution over 100 years ago. In fact, over 6,000 years ago.

Simple. Stop eating bad food. And don't eat too much good food. Shall we cut off a person's hands or part of their stomach because their stomach is their god?

Show me someone who had acquired diabetes and who eats a healthful diet and I'll show you someone who has become free!

I know of very very few, if any, who are willing to do that. Many would rather amputate a leg rather than give up their pleasure.





Apparently one can eat a healthful diet and still have blood sugar problems. Both my parents and one grandma had diabetes. Type 2. I have eaten a healthy vegetarian diet since I was 18 (I am now almost 62) and a healthy vegan diet for the last 25 years or so. I have not eaten candy, cookies, or other junk food since around age 18 and raised my kids not to be junk food eaters.

I am 5'8" tall and weigh 120 lbs. A few years ago, I started having high blood sugars after meals and still do if I don't restrict carbs. Keep in mind that I haven't eaten bad carbs for decades. My only beverage is water. Sometimes unsweetened herb tea medicinally. I'm talking about whole grains, beans, fruits. My fasting blood, so far, is excellent.

I know that stress is a huge factor in developing diabetes and I've had a good bit of it through my life. Now my older daughter who weighs about 117 lbs is having the same problem. Something is going on besides a bad diet! Our diet is excellent. We grow much of our own food, organically, keep as many chemicals as possible out of our lives, etc.
This does appear that you have a situation unusual from the norm. Lot's of times when people say they eat "healthy", that means they drink "organic" soda. But with eating no animal products, eating the whole grains, and I'm assuming not much processed food, it does sound unusual to me.

Glad to hear your fasting blood is excellent. Do you do a test right after meals to know you have high blood sugar?


I check it one hour after beginning to eat and then at two hours. This is recommended by Dr. Wes Youngberg in his book "Goodbye Diabetes" and others. He has a chart in his book that shows levels for fasting, one hour and two hours with the numbers that indicate optimal, Stages 1-5 high blood sugar. Stage 3 is pre-diabetes, Stage 4 is advanced pre-diabetes and Stage 5 is Diabetes. For instance, one hour after the meal, optimal blood sugar is 80-199, Stage 1 is 120-139, etc.
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/10/16 07:03 PM

I didn't understand if stages 1 and 2 are good or bad. What stage do you test at and is it consistent?
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/10/16 08:20 PM

Dr. Youngberg says that diabetes is starting with the different stages. If it is not addressed early, a person will "suddenly" develop full-blown diabetes and be surprised by it. But the fact is that it began long before and gradually got worse and worse. He calls Stage 1 High Blood Sugar and so forth. Sorry I was unclear on that!
Posted By: Rick H

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/11/16 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: daylily
Dr. Youngberg says that diabetes is starting with the different stages. If it is not addressed early, a person will "suddenly" develop full-blown diabetes and be surprised by it. But the fact is that it began long before and gradually got worse and worse. He calls Stage 1 High Blood Sugar and so forth. Sorry I was unclear on that!


There really is not a sudden 'event' that you develop the diabetes, it is there genetically in my family, and comes as your body ages. I knew from the age of 12 I had it but the doctors categorically said I did not have it and refused to accept it since I had a good diet and lifestyle and was very active and tests never ever showed any sign of diabetes. So if their tests didn't show it, then in their mind it did not exist.

So much for doctors, well my girlfriend who is now my wife, researched and read on it and talked to her sisters who were married to doctors or in the medical field and found all the symptoms of diabetes and I had every one of them except for one found in women. So she told me to go to the doctors and tell them I had diabetes and to treat me, as all the damage was beginning to manifest itself.

Well the doctors still refused to believe it as the diabetes slowly destroyed my body. So she came to the doctor and challenged them directly and they finally agreed to do the A1C long term test for diabetes, but told us we would have to pay since "I wasn't a diabetic" according to all their tests so the insurance would not allow for the A1C. So they did it and guess what, they scrambled as if their lives depended on it as they knew I could sue for all the years they had misdiagnosed me as my body fell apart. Well the damage has been done and through diet and exercise I have 'reversed' many of the effects, but who will give me my 20/20 vision back, and heal the damage to my body or restore my liver and kidney functions and give my feeling back to my feet and toes....I have to wait till Christ restores me when He comes, don't put your trust in man is all I can say...
Posted By: APL

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/11/16 04:10 PM

Rick - you have left a lot of information out of your story. What were your blood sugar levels? What tests did your doctors do that showed you did NOT have diabetes? Obviously the simplest test is your blood sugar level. Was it never high when they tested it? No sugar in your urine? You mention you had all the symptoms of diabetes, "I had every one of them except for one found in women", but do not mention what they were which are often thirst and frequent urination, but then your urine sugar should have been high. Your doctors "tests didn't show it, then in their mind it did not exist" so what was there that they missed? If your tests were negative, where were they going to then treat? Are they going to give you blood sugar lowering drugs when your blood sugars are normal?

You then blame doctors for not treating your disease but you do understand standard treatment of type II diabetes can actually increase your cardiovascular risk, right? Have you read the package inserts for many of the drugs used to treat type II diabetes? Read the black box warnings. They may have done you a favor! What did you expect the doctors to do?

You then say you were eating a "healthy diet" but now you have "through diet and exercise I have 'reversed' many of the effects" when begs the question of what your diet was before which brought on the disease? What is different now?

Change subject - Dr. Wes Youngberg is NOT a physician. That may actually be the best part of his work!
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/11/16 10:32 PM

I have a friend at church who developed neuropathy in her feet, legs and hands but her blood sugars were always normal when the doctors tested. They kept telling her she did not have diabetes and she had all kinds of neurological tests done. They told her the neuropathy was consistent with a diabetes diagnosis and finally her fasting blood sugar went high enough and she was officially diagnosed with diabetes.
Posted By: APL

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/12/16 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: daylily
I have a friend at church who developed neuropathy in her feet, legs and hands but her blood sugars were always normal when the doctors tested. They kept telling her she did not have diabetes and she had all kinds of neurological tests done. They told her the neuropathy was consistent with a diabetes diagnosis and finally her fasting blood sugar went high enough and she was officially diagnosed with diabetes.
And still the most important part is unknown in your story, a detailed account of her lifestyle before diagnosis. And while maybe halve of cases of neuropathy can be attributed to Diabetes, there are many other causes that need to be considered. If a person does not have elevated blood sugars, would you expect a physician to treat diabetes? Most physiciaans do not know about health reform, though there are encouraging signs that is changing. As Adventists, we "should" know the path to take, but which will take study for each individual.
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/12/16 02:27 AM

Lifestyle the same before and after. Junk food, lots of sugar, lots of fat, no exercise, etc. She is overweight and has lots of health issues. She and her husband are currently trying a whole plant foods diet. They tried it once before after Dr. John Clark gave a series of talks at our church. Her neuropathy actually went away! But sadly, they "fell off the wagon" as she puts it but are now trying it again with more seriousness.

If I were a physician, I would have my patients test their blood sugar 1 and 2 hours after meals and randomly just to see what it was doing. No harm in that,
Posted By: APL

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/12/16 05:07 AM

Originally Posted By: daylily
If I were a physician, I would have my patients test their blood sugar 1 and 2 hours after meals and randomly just to see what it was doing. No harm in that,
And then what? How would you want your diabetes treated if you found out you had it? Drugs? Insulin makes things worse! Most do not understand this about type-2 diabetes. The treatment is lifestyle. You friend is choosing death instead of life.
Posted By: daylily

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/12/16 12:18 PM

Of course not! Diet and exercise is the way to go! That's how I'm treating my prediabetes.

My friend, like so many others, knows a great deal more than she does as far as healthy lifestyle goes! They are working toward a better lifestyle at least.
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/14/16 12:34 AM

I would not say she is choosing death, but failing to choose life quick enough. Like you says, she knows better, but food is a god to many. It's hard to break away. I know some who are indeed dying, know what the need to do, but refuse to even trial it for 30 days.
Posted By: kland

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 06/14/16 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Rick H
...but the doctors categorically said I did not have it and refused to accept it since I had a good diet and lifestyle and was very active and tests never ever showed any sign of diabetes.
...
Well the damage has been done and through diet and exercise I have 'reversed' many of the effects,

Like APL, I'm confused by what you say. Unless it is reflecting on what I was saying before about those who claim they have a good diet and lifestyle.
Posted By: Wendell Slattery

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 07/12/16 02:35 AM

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160711092303.htm
Posted By: Rick H

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes - 09/30/21 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by APL
Rick - you have left a lot of information out of your story. What were your blood sugar levels? What tests did your doctors do that showed you did NOT have diabetes? Obviously the simplest test is your blood sugar level. Was it never high when they tested it? No sugar in your urine? You mention you had all the symptoms of diabetes, "I had every one of them except for one found in women", but do not mention what they were which are often thirst and frequent urination, but then your urine sugar should have been high. Your doctors "tests didn't show it, then in their mind it did not exist" so what was there that they missed? If your tests were negative, where were they going to then treat? Are they going to give you blood sugar lowering drugs when your blood sugars are normal?

You then blame doctors for not treating your disease but you do understand standard treatment of type II diabetes can actually increase your cardiovascular risk, right? Have you read the package inserts for many of the drugs used to treat type II diabetes? Read the black box warnings. They may have done you a favor! What did you expect the doctors to do?

You then say you were eating a "healthy diet" but now you have "through diet and exercise I have 'reversed' many of the effects" when begs the question of what your diet was before which brought on the disease? What is different now?

Change subject - Dr. Wes Youngberg is NOT a physician. That may actually be the best part of his work!

Well my A1C went over 12, and no insulin or pills had any real affect, and the feeling in my extremities went numb, and my eyesight deteriorated, and I began to have strokes and even worse. So it was extreme by any sense of the word...
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