The Ten Commandments

YES or NO? And why?

In His love

James S

The fruit of a converted heart is heartfelt love for our Master Shepherd, Jesus Christ and if we Do Love Him....we will do His biddings, in His strength. He says:John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

We cannot work our way to heaven, but we will not be there if we refuse to allow heaven to work its way in us.

Asking if obedience has anything to do with our salvation is like asking if breathing has anything to do with living. How can we separate the two?

Obedeince is the fruit of our salvation. When we're connected to Christ, when we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man, the Holy Spirit empowers us to experience fruitfulness - which includes obedience.

We do not obey the law in order to be saved, rather we are able to obey the law because we are saved in Jesus. The joy of Jesus is obedience, a life in harmony with the example of Jesus.

Jesus is our focus, not the law. The fruit of keeping our eyes on Jesus is obedience and fruitfulness. Keeping the Lord is keeping the law - but not the other way round (i.e., keeping the law is not keeping the Lord). We cannot put the law before the Lord and hope to obey the law. Jesus must be first and best of all, and then obedience will be possible to the honor and glory of God.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

quote:

---

SW
August 14, 1906
The Law of God Still in Force
Mrs. E. G. White

Christ warns his followers, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing; but inwardly they are ravening wolves." He exhorts us not to be deceived when false shepherds present their doctrines. These men tell us that the commandments of God were done away at the death of Christ. Shall we believe them, these men who claim to be sanctified, while they refuse to obey God? They say the Lord has told them that they need not keep the ten commandments; but has the Lord told them this? -- No; God does not lie. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 1}

Satan, who is the father of lies, deceived Adam in a similar way, telling him that he need not obey God, that he would not die if he transgressed the law. But Adam fell, and by his sin he opened the floodgates of woe upon our world. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 2}

Again, Satan told Cain that he need not follow expressly the command of God in presenting the slain lamb as an offering. Cain obeyed the voice of the deceiver; and because God did not accept his offering, while he showed his approval of Abel's offering, Cain rose up in anger and slew his brother. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 3}

We need to know for ourselves what voice we are heeding, whether it is the voice of the true and living God, or the voice of the great apostate. Eternal life is of value to each of us, and we must take heed how we hear. We need sound doctrine, pure faith. We cannot afford to receive the sayings of men for the commandments of God. God declares, "If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; if they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes." {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 4}

John gives the definition of sin. "Whosoever committeth sin," he says, "transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." And this was after the crucifixion of Christ, when, we are told, the law was abolished. When type met antitype in the death of Christ, the sacrificial offerings ceased. The ceremonial law was done away. But by the crucifixion the law of ten commandments was established. The gospel has not abrogated the law, nor detracted one tittle from its claims. It still demands holiness in every part. It is the echo of God's own voice, giving to every soul the invitation, Come up higher. Be holy, holier still. This just and holy law is the standard by which all will be judged in the last day. We need to ask ourselves the question, Are we making void the law of God, or are we standing in vindication of it? We should carefully examine our thoughts and words. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 5}

The law has no power to pardon transgression. Repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ must be exercised. As the sinner looks into this divine mirror, he will see the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and will be driven to Christ. Godly sorrow will result from a realization of his frailty and depravity. His faith in the atoning sacrifice will be based on the sacred promise of full and complete pardon in Christ. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 6}

But every one who has this hope of pardon through Christ, must "purify himself, even as he is pure." His life thenceforth must be governed by a new principle. The influence of a gospel hope will not lead the sinner to look upon the salvation of Christ as a matter of free grace, while he continues to live in transgression of the law of God. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 7}

Let us earnestly inquire, What is truth? We cannot afford to build on a sandy foundation. The doctrines revealed in the word of God are to be the foundation of our faith. It is of the utmost importance that we understand, as far as God has given us capacity for understanding, the principles upon which his government rests; for the principles which we believe and receive into the heart will govern and control the actions. The more clear the understanding of the truth which is in Jesus, the more spiritual will be the religious life, the more holy the affections. {SW, August 14, 1906 par. 8}

---

Mike you are right. We love Jesus first and then we have the fruit of that true love..which is obeying Him and His Commandments from a heart full of love.

YES or NO? And why?

quote:

---

Amazing Grace
Page 134
Chap. 126
Terms of the Covenant

If ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people. Ex. 19:5

In the beginning, God gave His law to mankind as a means of attaining happiness and eternal life.

The ten commandments, Thou shalt, and Thou shalt not, are ten promises, assured to us if we render obedience to the law governing the universe. "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). Here is the sum and substance of the law of God. The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. . . .

That law of ten precepts of the greatest love that can be presented to man is the voice of God from heaven speaking to the soul in promise, "This do, and you will not come under the dominion and control of Satan." There is not a negative in that law, although it may appear thus. It is DO and Live.

The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness. If eternal life were granted on any condition short of this, then the happiness of the whole universe would be imperiled. The way would be open for sin, with all its train of woe and misery, to be immortalized.

Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life--the same condition that was required of Adam before his fall. . . . The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden--harmony with God's law, which is holy, just, and good.

The standard of character presented in the Old Testament is the same that is presented in the New Testament. This standard is not one to which we cannot attain. In every command or injunction that God gives there is a promise, the most positive, underlying the command. God has made provision that we may become like unto Him, and He will accomplish this for all who do not interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace.

---

The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. . . .

James this sure answers your question very clear. So yes, obedience to God's Ten Commandments do matter for our salvation..they matter very much.

There is only one answer to this question.....a resounding YES.

Thank you Jesus for your promises.

Your post covered the question quite adequately, I felt, and in short, well thought out, and explanatory statements. Thank you for sharing.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Thank you. Jesus is so awesome, and I am personally thankful, thoroughly thankful, that in Jesus obedience to the holy, just and good law is possible. God is great, and I love Him with all my heart.

---

Hi Mike,

Just how do you show people that the law of God is still binding... it is a difficult task (I have found anyway, to show that the Law of God is FOREVER!!) What Bible texts would you use, besides the ones previously mentioned in John 14.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Avalee and whoever else wishes to respond:

Some people say that this is referring to Christ's commandments, not the 10 Commandments.

How would you answer those people?

But in 1 John 3:23,24 the "He" is definitely God the Father, since in verse 23 it says "His Son Jesus Christ." So that passage is talking about the commandments of the Father.

1 John 5:2,3 just says "God" generically, so that would be taken to be the Father > Ten Commandments. If the Bible doesn't specifically say Jesus' commandments, it makes sense to take it as meaning the Father's Commandments, i.e. the Ten.

Some more verses illustrating the importance of keeping the Ten:

"Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." -- John 16:13.

"Thou art near, O Lord; and all Thy commandments are truth." -- Psalm 119:151.

===

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." -- Philippians 4:8.

"The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes." -- Psalm 19:8.

"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." -- Romans 7:12.

"My lips shall utter praise, when Thou hast taught me Thy statutes." -- Psalm 119:171.

===

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." -- Matthew 5:6.

"All Thy commandments are righteousness." -- Psalm 119:172.

===

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." -- Galatians 3:7.

"Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." -- John 8:39

"Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." -- Genesis 26:5.

===

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." -- Matthew 5:18.

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." -- Romans 8:4.

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." -- Romans 8:6-8.

"But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 15:57. Amen to that!

When you discuss it further with them, and go through the ten commandments one at a time, you learn that the only commandment they believe doesn't have to obeyed is the Sabbath commandment.

So then the study really has to do with whether or not the Sabbath still has to be observed, which eventually involves the great controversy motif.

Mike, your observation about the sabbath is so true. People who fail to grasp the eternal nature of the Ten Commandments seem to think that if a commandment isn't explicitly restated or confirmed in the New Testament, then it isn't binding any more. And most think the 4th commandment isn't restated in the New Testament; that the discussion in Hebrews 4 only refers to entering in to Christ's rest. (As in, "Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28)

But Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi makes an interesting observation:

"Sometimes a word is used only once in the Bible. This makes it necessary to consult its use in extra-Biblical literature. For example, the term sabbatismos ('Sabbathkeeping') is used only in Hebrews 4:9. Recent studies of the use of sabbatismos in extra-Biblical literature have shown that the term is consistently used to denote a literal seventh-day Sabbathkeeping. Thus, the correct translation of Hebrews 4:9 is: 'A seventh-day Sabbathkeeping has been left behind for the people of God.' A correct translation of this text provides a powerful proof of the continuity of Sabbathkeeping in the NT."

http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_21.html

(see also http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_78.html )

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: John ]

So far, I see that all have the same answer: YES, obedience to the law does matter for our salvation because it is commanded for Christ believers to keep and do it.

Mike Lowe went deeper with saying that obedience to the law is the fruit of our salvation, because of our faith in Christ, His Spirit empower us and made us able to keep and obey the law.

I will comment on others first and set out Mike for a later reply.

I came to understand that all those who replied the question believe that obedience (or works) does matters to our salvation. Straight to say, that we are not saved by our obedience to the law (only by Christ through faith) but without obedience we will never be in heaven. So, obedience to the law or our works really are so important and might be added to the works Christ has done for us in order we may live eternally in heaven.

What does these verses means to you?

“So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works, if it were, grace would be no longer grace” – Romans 11:5,6 (NIV).

“But now the righteousness from God apart from the law, has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” – Romans 3:21-24 (NIV).

“Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trust God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness” – Romans 3:4,5 (NIV).

We will dig and learn the truth together.

In His love

James S.

You are right! All what was written by John was to keep “LOVE that seeks no self” as Christ’s commandments.

Many believes that love=the 10th Cs, but unfortunately they are deadly wrong.

In His love

James S.

Regarding Sabbath observation as commanded in the 10th Commandment I will not discuss here but I will open a new topic for this later.

In His love

James S.

Justification is the beginning of your walk with Christ. And to walk With Him is Active. We have choices to make and a believer is "a doer of the Word", does the works of the law, not to be saved, but because he is saved.

The Spirit of Prophecy quotes above are quite clear....can you comment on them please.

Manuscript Releases Volume Thirteen
-PG- 191
"God calls for a living, straightforward testimony to be borne.Testimonies have been borne, but a new impulse must be given to the work. Jesus Christ is the Captain of the Lord's host. He must be recognized as the leader. All who heed the works, "Follow Me," will reveal the fruit of
obedience. The ground upon which we are to stand unitedly in doing God's service is that the Bible is the true guide, and not the idle sophistry of men. The Bible is our Counselor, and is to be obeyed. Justification by faith is the article of our true standing in the sight of God. Sanctification through the Holy Spirit binds up man's will and purpose with the will and purpose of God. If we have not these features in our experience, the church will be sickly and feeble. The safety of God's people is in coming to His living Word. When no human authority is put before this Word, then will men unite in gospel harmony, for the doing of the Word binds heart to heart, causing the workers to blend as one in Christ Jesus. The living oracles are fresh and beautiful. To study them is to eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God."

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Charlene Van Hook ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by James Saptenno:
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trust God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness Romans 3:4,5 (NIV)

---

James I am sure it is just a mistake but you might want to recheck your NIV verse on Romans 3:4,5....since I do not use this translation I read it in the KJV and it really does not say the same thing at all. Below is the verse Romans 3:4-5 in the KJV. Just did a search on the online version for NIV and it is Chapter 4:4-5 you want.

Romans 3:4(KJV)
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Romans 3:5(KJV)
But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]

quote:

---

Many believes that love=the 10th Cs, but unfortunately they are deadly wrong.

---

Well, the apostle John wrote, "This is love, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

I believe I'll go along with the apostle! It would be deadly to do otherwise.

[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: John ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
We are not saved because Jesus empowers us to live without sin, rather He is able to empower us to obey the law unto righteousness because we have accepted the salvation He wrought out for us on the cross.

---

quote:

---

The lawyer spoke just as he was convicted, and Christ confirmed him in his interpretation of the law. "And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right; this do, and thou shalt live." How beautiful was this truth in its simplicity! This is what God requires of us. Through faith in Jesus Christ as our substitute, surety, and righteousness, we may lay hold upon divine power, so that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. The keeping of God's commandments is an evidence of our faith in Christ as our divine Saviour. John says, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grievous." Again he writes, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." {ST, July 2, 1896 par. 6}

---

quote:

---

He that abideth in Christ is perfected in the love of God, and his purposes, thoughts, words, and actions are in harmony with the will of God expressed in the commandments of His law. There is nothing in the heart of the man who abides in Christ that is at war with any precept of God's law. Where the Spirit of Christ is in the heart, the character of Christ will be revealed, and there will be manifested gentleness under provocation, and patience under trial. "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." Righteousness can be defined only by God's great moral standard, the Ten Commandments. There is no other rule by which to measure character.--Signs of the Times, June 20, 1895. {RC 59.4}

---

quote:

---

People may keep and obey the whole Ten perfectly but without love.

---

quote:

---

"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" – Romans 10:4.

In Christ by faith, the ministration of the law ended for those who believe, so that righteousness might be given as a free gift instead of condemnation and death through obedience to the law that could never justify its law keepers.

---

quote:

---

Christ himself has made an end to the law as a way to earn life by obedience for justification.

---

quote:

---

Amazing Grace
Page 141
God's Law is its Standard

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Eccl. 12:13

Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the covenant was made that all who were obedient, all who should through the abundant grace provided, become holy in character, and without blame before God, by appropriating that grace, should be children of God. This covenant, made from eternity, was given to Abraham hundreds of years before Christ came. With what interest and what intensity did Christ in humanity study the human race to see if they would avail themselves of the provision offered.

In His teachings, Christ showed how far-reaching are the principles of the law spoken from Sinai. He made a living application of that law whose principles remain forever the great standard of righteousness--the standard by which all shall be judged in that great day when the judgment shall sit, and the books shall be opened. He came to fulfill all righteousness, and, as the head of humanity, to show man that he can do the same work, meeting every specification of the requirements of God. Through the measure of His grace furnished to the human agent, not one need miss heaven. Perfection of character is attainable by every one who strives for it. This is made the very foundation of the new covenant of the gospel. The law of Jehovah is the tree; the gospel is the fragrant blossoms and fruit which it bears.

God's law is the transcript of His character. It embodies the principles of His kingdom. He who refuses to accept these principles is placing himself outside the channel where God's blessings flow.

The glorious possibilities set before Israel could be realized only through obedience to God's commandments. The same elevation of character, the same fulness of blessing--blessing on mind and soul and body, blessing on house and field, blessing for this life and for the life to come--is possible for us only through obedience.

Let us not lower the standard, but keep it lifted high, looking to Him who is the Author and the Finisher of our faith.

---

quote:

---

Will man take hold of divine power, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given him example in His conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan's artifices. Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then, through the victory that it is his privilege to gain by the all-powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part; he must be victor on his own account, through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming, and then he will be partaker with Christ in His glory. {SD 156.3}

---

quote:

---

If obedience can't get you into heaven, how can disobedience keep you out?

---

quote:

---

You can't sin in the presence of God, when He is posessing you.

---

quote:

---

We need to get this very clear. Works are not the focus. Jesus is.

---

quote:

---

He will have the fruit of the Spirit; love that seeks no self in it. Now, he is able to love his fellow men. Now he did keep the law of God although the deeds are not done based on his own desire but the Spirit desire.

So, is there any use of the law (10 Cs) for him? None!

---

quote:

---

In a faith relationship with God through a li[f]e by the Spirit, there is no place for our own desire in obedience to the law, because this is done by the Spirit, it is the desire of the Spirit.

---

quote:

---

But how could the Spirit release us from the power of sin if we want to keep and obey the law, as keeping the law empowers sin in us to become stronger and exceeding sinful?

---

quote:

---

Galatians 5:18 “But if you live by the Spirit, you are not under the law.” Clear and unmistakable!

---

quote:

---

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under any obligation to keep the law

---

quote:

---

you are not under the law authority, you are not under it judgment and at last you are not under it condemnation.

---

quote:

---

Read Philippians 3:6, if Paul before his conversion could keep the law perfectly, so would many others.

---

quote:

---

But do you know that without breaking the law, you already live in sin?

---

quote:

---

Do you also know that obeying the law makes you a sinner?

---