The Seven Trumpets of Revelation, Historical or still to come?

The Seven Trumpets are being revisited by Adventist for many reasons as they are part of the events that happen leading up to the second coming, the question seems to be when they happen:

Ellen White says the following which seems to differ from the traditional view;

"This is the sharpest experience I have ever had in a carriage in a storm...I thought of the day when the judgments of God would be poured out upon the world, when blackness and horrible darkness would clothe the heavens as sackcloth of hair...my imagination anticipated what it must be in that period when the Lord's mighty voice shall give commission to His angels, 'Go your ways and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth'. Revelation 6 & 7 are full of meaning terrible are the judgments of God revealed. The seven angels stood before God to receive their commission. To them were given seven trumpets. The Lord was going forth to punish the inhabitants of the earth. When the plagues of God shall come upon the earth hail will fall upon the wicked about the weight of a talent." Letter 59, 1895.

"Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth." Maranatha 237, 3 Selected Messages 426.

Traditionally, Adventists have that thee seven seals and seven trumpets of Revelation 6-9 are generally taken to represent events which took place during the Christian era up to 1844. For example, the first four trumpets have traditionally been identified with the pagan invasions of Western Christendom in the 5th century CE (by the Visigoths, Vandals and Huns), while the fifth and sixth trumpets have been identified with the assault on Eastern Christendom by the Muslim armies and Ottoman Turks during the Middle Ages.

A book presenting the historical view of the seven trumpets was written by C. Mervyn Maxwell. In his book, God Cares, Volume II, (Pacific Press Publishing Association, 1985) Maxwell endorses a historical fulfillment of the seven trumpets as follows:
Trumpet 1 – Fall of Jerusalem A.D. 70

Trumpet 2 – Fall of pagan Rome A.D. 378-476

Trumpet 3 – Corruption of the professed church of Christ 476 - 538

Trumpet 4 – Darkness of the middle ages A.D. 538 - 1299

Trumpet 5 – Mohammedan scourge A.D. 1299 - 1449

Trumpet 6 – Scourges under Turkish control A.D. 1449 - 1840

Trumpet 7 – Terrifying outbreaks of human passion and hate (End-time)

The First Trumpet here however doesnt agree with what James White wrote as he has it after the death of Theodosius, the Roman emperor, in January, 395, and it was "The first sore and heavy judgment which fell on western Rome in its downward course, was the war with the Goths under Alaric, styled by himself, "the scourge of God."

James White does a study on the Seven Trumpets of Revelation which seems to agree overall with the historical or the view of the events as already happening to be finished with the final trumpet as seen in his "THE SOUNDING of the SEVEN TRUMPETS of REVELATION 8 AND 9." http://www.adventtimes.com/content/7TRUMPETS.pdf but as I already mentioned the timing of the First Trumpet varies.

We also have a very good study by SDA theologian Jon Pauline:

INTERPRETING THE SEVEN TRUMPETS
by Jon Paulien
A paper prepared for the
Daniel and Revelation Committee
of the General Conference of SDAs
Presented in Berrien Springs, MI
March 5-9, 1986

".......The First Trumpet

"The first angel sounded his trumpet; with the result that hail and fire mixed with blood were flung to the earth. A third of the earth, a third of the trees and all the green grass were burned up."
Rev 8:7

Parallels in Revelation
7:1-3 11:19
8:5 14:18
9:4 16:21
11:5 20:10,14,15
Old Testament Allusions

Reasonably Certain
Ezod 9:23-26 Ezek 38:22
Isa 10:16-20 Zech 13:8-9
Ezek 5:1-4


Moderately Certain


Exod 7:17ff. Isa 30:30
Deut 32:22 Jer 11:16-17
Ps 18:13 Jer 21:12-14
Ps 80:8-11,15,16 Ezek 15:6-7
Ps 105:32 Ezek 20:47-48
Isa 28:2 Joel 2:30-31


Symbolic Concepts (Echoes)


Hail Earth
Fire Trees
Blood Grass


Contemporary Literature

4 Ezra 5:8 in context
Sib Or V:376-378
Wis Sol 16:16-24


New Testament Allusions

Reasonably Certain

Matt 3:10
Luke 12:49
Luke 23:28-31


Uncertain

Rom 8:20ff.
1 Cor 3:13-14
Jude 11-12


Exegetical Meaning

In the first trumpet John draws on the imagery of God's judgments on Egypt (Exod 9:23-26), Assyria (Isa 10:16-20), Gog (Ezek 38:22) and Jerusalem (Ezek 5:1-4). It is clear that the language of the first trumpet describes an act of God's judgment against a power that opposes Him. In the OT these judgments were covenant related, thus could be turned on God's own people when they broke the covenant (Deut 32:15-22). The later prophets, especially, applied the hail and fire of God's judgments more and more to Israel and Judah (Ps 80:8-16; Isa 28:2; Jer 11:16,17; 21:12-14; Ezek 15:65,7; 20:47,48).

In the OT, hail and fire symbolized weapons of God's wrath used in judgment on His enemies (Exod 9:23-26; Job 38:22; Ps 18:13; Isa 10:16-20; 28:2; 29:1-6; Jer 21:12-14).(47) Blood symbolized violently destroyed life (Gen 9:5,6; 1 Kgs 2:5; Ps 79:3; Mic 3:10). The earth symbolized the habitable portion of the planet, and in contrast to the sea, the land of Israel itself (Isa 28:2; Lev 26: Jer 9:10-12). Fresh grass was a symbol of God's people while dry grass portrayed the fate of evildoers (Isa 44:3,4; Ps 37:1,2). Fruitful trees were particularly associated with the faithful followers of Yahweh (Ps 1:3; 52:8; 92:12,13; Isa 61:3) while dry or wild vegetation symbolized the unfaithfulness of Israel (Isa 5:1-7; Jer 2:21; Ezek 15:6,7; 20:47,48; Hos 10:1).(48)

In Revelation, as in the OT, hail and fire are associated with heavenly things and with God's judgments on His enemies (Rev 16:21; 20:10,14,15) and the enemies of His people (8:5; 11:5). Greenery is also a symbol of God's people who are usually protected by His seal (7:1-3; 9:4). Thus the greenery here represents followers of God who are not protected and thus have probably forsaken the covenant. The thirds are best understood as portions of Satan's kingdom which has three parts (Rev 16:14,19).(49)

Thus the first trumpet portrays a judgment of God, in response to the prayers of the saints, which falls on a portion of Satan's kingdom that may once have given allegiance to God's kingdom. Do we have any idea with whom the readers of the Apocalypse would have identified this judgment? In Matt 3:10 trees were a symbol of fruitless Jews who had rejected John the Baptist's message and thus were exposed to the fire of Messianic judgment that Jesus would pour out (Matt 3:12; Luke 12:49). In Luke 23:28-31 Jesus applied the imagery of dying trees to the destruction of Jerusalem. If a righteous man such as He can be treated as He was what will be the fate of a rebellious and wicked nation, who crucifies its redeemer? These NT references make it virtually certain that John intended his readers to see in the first trumpet the fate of the Jewish nation that had rejected Jesus as its Messiah.


The Second Trumpet
"The second angel sounded his trumpet; and something like a great mountain burning with fire was flung into the sea. A third of the sea became blood, and a third of the creatures that were in the sea, who have souls, died, and a third of the ships were destroyed."
Rev 8:8-9
Parallels in Revelation
6:12-17 17:16
12:12 18:8,9,18
16:4-6 18:17-19
17:1-3 18:21
17:9 18:24

Old Testament Allusions

Reasonably Certain

Gen 1:20,21
Exod 7:19-21
Exod 19:16-20 Ps-J
Jer 51:24,25,41,42


Moderately Certain

Ps 46:2-3
Isa 10:16-18


Symbolic Concepts


Mountain Blood
Fire Sea Creatures
Sea Ships


Contemporary Literature


1 Enoch 18:13-16 2 Baruch 10:1-3
1 Enoch 21:3-10 2 Baruch 11:1
1 Enoch 108:4-6 2 Baruch 67:7
4 Ezra 3:1,2,28-31 Sib Or V:143,158,159
4 Ezra 13:21-24



New Testament Allusions

Matt 21:21
Matt 13:47-50
Luke 5:1-10
Luke 21:25


Exegetical Meaning

While the burning mountain might have brought the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 AD to the first century mind, the second trumpet is built primarily on the Old Testament. Gen 1:20,21 is the source of the language with which the author describes the fish that are destroyed in the sea. The bloody water and the dead fish are reminiscent of the plagues on Egypt (Exod 7:19-21). The Pseudo-Jonathan Targum to the Penteteuch causes one to suspect that John may have had the theophany on Sinai in mind as he wrote here (Exod 19:16-20 Ps-J). The most significant Old Testament allusion in the second trumpet is the reference to Jer 51. Just as the Euphrates River is the means by which the original Babylon fell, so the sea here swallows up another Babylon. In Isa 10:16-18 the reference is to the fall of Assyria. While the Old Testament background of the first trumpet suggests that the plague falls on a power that once followed God but has now broken the covenant, the Old Testament background to the second trumpet points to a judgment on Gentile nations rather than an apostate Israel.

As with the first trumpet, there are six symbolic concepts in Rev 8:8,9. A mountain can symbolize a nation (Isa 13:4; Jer 51; Isa 10), God's throne (Isa 2:2,3; 14:12-14; Ezek 28:14) or an obstacle to faith (Zech 4:7-10). Of the three the first is the most relevant to the context of the second trumpet. Fire, as in the first trumpet, is a symbol of violently destroyed life. In 1 Enoch (18:13-16; 108:4-6) the burning of a mountain indicates that it is subject to God's judgment as was the case with the mountain of Babylon in Jer 51. The sea is most likely to be understood in terms of nations in opposition to God (Isa 57:20; 17:12,13; Jer 51:41,42; cf. Rev 13:1ff.; 16:12; 17:15). Sea creatures are a symbol of people (Ezek 29:5; Hab 1:14). The destruction of fish is symbolic of God's judgment upon evildoers (Hag 4:3; Zeph 1:3). Ships are symbolic of the sources of a nation's wealth and its pride in being able to take care of itself (Ezek 27:26; 2 Chr 20:37; Isa 2:16). The destruction of ships leads to economic chaos resulting in the humiliation of that nation (Rev 18:17-19).

In Revelation "great mountain" clearly points to ancient Babylon as a symbol of the end-time opposers of Christ and His people (17:1-3,9; 18:21). This end-time Babylon is symbolically destroyed by fire as was the first (Rev 17:16; 18:8,9,18). The fact that there is only one mountain in Rev 8:8 and seven mountains in Rev 17:9 indicates that this plague does not fall on the end-time Babylon of Rev 17 but on a preliminary manifestation of that Babylon.(50) The blood in the second trumpet probably represents a reversal of the persecution of God's people by the wicked (cf. Rev 16:4-6; 18:24). They receive in kind for what they have done. The sea appears to be a reference to the Euphrates, the waters of Babylon (9:14; 16:12; 17:1,15). In summary, the second trumpet is a judgment of God, in response to the prayers of the saints, which falls on an enemy of God's people. This enemy is represented by a great burning mountain which is identified with ancient Babylon.(51) In judgment God burns the mountain and casts it into the sea of wicked nations, resulting in economic and commercial chaos for the ancient world.

Do we have any idea with whom the readers of the Apocalypse would have identified this judgment? It was common in first century Judaism to use Babylon as a cryptic reference to Rome.(52) Would John have been likely to do the same? Matt 21:21 relates the moving of mountains to Christian faith. A mountain is any power that opposes the establishment of Jesus' kingdom. In Luke 21:25 the unruly sea represents the wicked nations of the world in an unsettled state. In Luke 5:1-10 and Matt 13:47-50 the fish of the sea represent individuals to whom the gospel is preached. Thus the symbols are used similarly to the OT but in a Christ-centered context.

The mountain facing Jesus and His disciples in Matt 21 was the opposition of the Jewish nation to Jesus. By the time Revelation was written a far larger mountain had erected itself in the path of Christ's kingdom, Rome. Rome was not the end-time Babylon for John, but its persecution and ridicule hindered the preaching of the gospel and tempted many Christians to apostatize from the faith. Given the weight of evidence it is likely that a first century reader would understand the second trumpet as a prediction that the Roman Empire was soon to fall along with its entire social order. Although the Empire was used by God as the executor of His covenant on the Jewish nation, its hostility toward Christ and his people, and its persecution of them called for its ultimate downfall. When that time came it would apparently be as the result of universal revulsion. She would sink beneath the waves of a sea of nations. The result would be the devastation of the whole economic and social order.


The Third Trumpet
"The third angel sounded his trumpet; and a great star burning with fire fell out of heaven. It landed on a third of the rivers and springs of water. The star's name was called "Wormwood." A third of the waters became wormwood with the result that many men died from the waters because they had been made bitter.
Rev 8:10-11
Exegetical Meaning(53)

The main symbolism of the third trumpet revolves around the great falling star and the rivers and springs which it defiles. The falling star is particularly reminiscent of the Lucifer account (Isa 14:12-15) and the activity of the little horn (Dan 8:10,11) in the Old Testament. In both texts there is the attempt to usurp God's authority. In Isa 14 the falling of the star is the punishment for Lucifer's activity, in Dan 8 it is the result of the little horn's persecuting activity.
Rivers and fountains, when pure, are sources of life in the Old Testament (Deut 8:7,8; Ps 1:3). Thus they became symbols of spiritual nourishment (Ps 36:8,9; Jer 17:8,13; Prov 14:27; Ezek 47:1-12). Impure fountains, on the other hand, would have the opposite spiritual effect (Prov 25:26). Bitter water cannot sustain life and growth.

Wormwood and bitterness are associated together in Lam 3:15,19. In Deuteronomy wormwood represents anyone who turns away from Yahweh into idolatry (Deut 29:17,18). In Jeremiah it symbolizes the punishment Yahweh was planning to mete out because of Judah's apostasy (Jer 9:15: 23:15). The Marah experience is also a close parallel to the third trumpet (Exod 15:23). The children of Israel were dying of thirst. With great anticipation, they approached the spring-fed oasis of Marah only to find that there was no life in the bitter water.

Other parts of the New Testament also contain parallels to the third trumpet. In Luke 10:18 Satan is the one who fell from heaven. Similar imagery is used in Rev 12 where the dragon's tail sweeps a third of the stars of heaven to earth before being thrown to the earth himself (Rev 12:3,4,9). In the Gospel of John "living" spring water is a symbol of what Jesus brings to the believer through the Holy Spirit (John 4:10-14; 7:37-39).

What was John trying to say with by means of these images? The overwhelming flavor of this account is one of apostasy. Stars and fountains are positive images in Scripture but here John drew on passages such as Isa 14 and Deut 29 where a good thing becomes evil due to apostasy. The little horn of Dan 8 also encourages apostasy in its usurpation of the sanctuary service. Such apostasy is the first step on the road to spiritual death in that it results in a distortion of the source of spiritual nourishment, the Word of God. Through distorted views of God the Scriptures are made of no effect in giving life to the people.

The early church was aware that apostasy loomed large in its future (Acts 20:28-31; 2 Thess 2; 1 Tim 4:1ff.). It was also aware that pure doctrine can only be maintained with diligent effort (1 Tim 4:1,2; 1 John 4:1-3; Jude 3,4). The message of the third trumpet underlines these convictions. The removal of Rome and Judaism as effective opponents would have seemed to open the way for the church's advancement and growth. But John warns in apocalyptic language that such a removal only diverts Satan's attack. He then will concentrate on destroying the church from within, knowing that if the church's life-giving message can be subtly distorted, mankind will fail to find the spiritual nourishment it needs, but instead will find only bitterness. Indications that this iniquity was already at work in John's lifetime are found in New Testament books such as 1 Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians and Hebrews.


The Fourth Trumpet
"The fourth angel sounded his trumpet; and a third of the sun, moon and stars were smitten with a plague, resulting in a third of them being darkened so that a third of the day did not shine and the night likewise.
Rev 8:12
Exegetical Meaning

There is an apparent contradiction in this verse. The plague smites a third of the sun, moon and stars with darkness, which one would expect to result in a dimming of the intensity of the heavenly lights. Instead a third of the day and a third of the night are darkened as in an eclipse. Since the latter is more sound grammatically, the plague probably points to a darkening of the heavenly bodies for a third of the time.
This passage is strongly based on the darkness of the ninth plague on Egypt (Exod 10:21-23) and the lamentation over Pharaoh in Ezek 32:2-8. Darkness is one of the curses of the covenant (Deut 28:29). The sun is a symbol of the Word of God in the Old Testament (Ps 19; 119:105). The moon represents beauty and fertility (SS 6:10; Deut 33:14). Stars represent angels and the people of God (Dan 8:10; 12:3). The choice of symbolism points to a partial obliteration of the Word of God resulting in spiritual darkness.

John seems to be pointing to an attack on God's word and His people that is of a different nature than that of the third trumpet. While wormwood represented a distortion of the Word of God the fourth trumpet results in the obliteration of that word. It is no longer visible. In the third trumpet people continued to drink from the springs, hoping to gain life, in the fourth trumpet the very presence of the life-giving sources is removed.

John seems to be pointing to a new power which would oppose the truth and the people of God in a more direct way. Perhaps the model for such a power can be found in the Pharaoh of the Exodus, who denied the very existence of Yahweh (Exod 5:2). It is difficult to know what kind of movement John would have had in mind, likely he was pointing to something completely new.

There is a seeming contradiction in that the trumpets are judgments of God on the enemies of His people, yet the third and fourth trumpets seem to be attacks on the gospel and those who proclaim it. But God's judgments come in two forms in the Bible. There is the judgment of open intervention as in 2 Kgs 19 where 185,000 Assyrians were slain. Similar is the sending of Cyrus to defeat Babylon in order to free Israel. On the other hand, as in Rom 1, God's judgments often come in the form of permitting people and nations to reap the consequences of their own actions (cf. Hos 4:17). Thus, while the direct enemies of the church are removed in the first two trumpets, God permits an apostasy which results in two new enemies, one from within and one from without. In its apostasy the church, as with Judaism, becomes an enemy of God's true people.


Transition

"I saw and heard a vulture flying in mid-heaven saying with a loud voice, "Woe, woe, woe to those who live on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet sounds belonging to the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets."
Rev 8:13
The vulture is a symbol of God's covenant judgments (Hos 8:1; Ezek 32:4; Hab 1:8). God is moving to attack those who are spiritually dead as a result of the apostasy. The three woes indicate that the worst is yet to come. Now that the darkness has been unleashed, all the powers of darkness are freed to torment humanity until the end. For John, the road to the Parousia is a downhill road to destruction apart from Christ...."

"..........The Fifth Trumpet
"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
"The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lion's teeth. They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon."
Rev 9:1-11 NIV

Exegetical Meaning

The fallen star of verse 1 connects this trumpet with the third where the star actually fell. While the star, in its primary sense refers to Satan (cf. v. 11 and Isa 14), it is connected with apostasy in the third trumpet. Thus, in some sense, the apostasy of the third trumpet may be related to the unlocking of the abyss.
That God also had a hand in the unlocking of the abyss is clear for a number of reasons. 1) The divine passives (vv. 1,3,5). 2) The star fell from heaven. 3) The locusts receive exousia. 4) In Exod 19:18 the "smoke of the furnace" arises from the presence of Yahweh on Mt. Sinai. 5) Locusts in the Old Testament are a symbol of God's judgment.

The abyss is a symbol that has reference to the past, the present and the future. It is reminiscent of the earth in its precreation chaotic condition (Gen 1:2). Thus it could represent those who are in opposition to God's re-creation in Christ. On the other hand, the abyss is the abode of demons in the present (Luke 8:28-31). It also looks forward to the fate of the wicked (Gen 10:22 Pal Targ) and is associated with the beast of the end-time (Rev 11:7; 17:8).

The smoke which arises out of the abyss does not dim the sun, it eclipses it. The sun is still there but is no longer seen by the "earth-dwellers." This darkness is a connection to the fourth trumpet, which depicted the rise of a power which sought to blot out the knowledge of God. In Gen 19 the smoke of a great furnace describes the destruction of godless Sodom (cf. 11:8).

Verse 3 introduces locusts which have the power of scorpions. Locusts would symbolize quantity while scorpions symbolize harmfulness toward mankind. This heightens the terror of the description. In the ancient Near East locusts and scorpion men were symbols of the rulers of the underworld (cf. v. 11). The locusts here are not literal for they attack men, not vegetation, and they have a king over them, unlike natural locusts (Rev 9:4,11 cf. Prov 30:27).

Locusts are used in the Old Testament as symbols of God's judgments (Ps 78:46; Deut 28:42,45; 1 Kgs 8:37). These are often directed at those who have apostatized from following Him (Joel 1:4-18; 2:1-11; Jer 4; Gen 6-9). As such they could only be turned back through repentance at the Sanctuary (1 Kgs 8:35-40; 2 Chr 7:13,14; Joel 2:12-17).

The locusts of the fifth trumpet arise from the abyss, which is devoid of vegetation (cf. targum to Gen 1:2), in order to turn the earth into an abyss like their own. But this God does not permit (Rev 9:4). God's people are safe from the demonic forces of Satan (Luke 10:17-20; 8:28-31) which arise out of the abyss. God has given them a mark of protection (Gen 4:15 cf. Ezek 9:4). On the other hand, the fate of those who have rejected Christ is horrible. The king of the abyss torments his own subjects as with scorpions (2 Chr 10;11,14). These torments are to be understood as spiritual not physical. In Ps 71:20,21 the abyss is paralleled to "many and bitter troubles." Death is sought by those in bitterness and grief, for whom life has lost its meaning.(54) This torment is to some degree self-inflicted. Their unbelief has driven them into foolish practices which reap a harvest of despair (Rom 1:21-26).

It is possible to make too much of the elaborate description of the locusts. Perhaps they symbolize human beings inspired by Satan (Rev 9:7,8,11). Whether man or demon, these fiends "are as strong as horses, as powerful as kings, as cunning as the wiliest man, as seductive as a beautiful woman, and they can cause pain like a scorpion."(55) In verse 11 Satan's names (Apollyon and Abaddon) are personifications of death, the fate of the wicked (Job 26:6; 31:12; Ps 88:11). This fits in with the character of one who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning (John 8:44). He exercises his lies through the tails of the locust-men (Isa 9:15). Just as his confinement to the abyss (Rev 20:1-3 restricts his deceptions, so the opening of the abyss is the release of his deceptions to do their deadly work. In those who reject Christ the light of truth is extinguished by Satan (cf. 2 Thess 2:9-12--with God's permission).

John apparently foresaw a time when the darkness of the fourth trumpet would become total and worldwide, limited only by a period of time (five months).(56) With God and truth totally eclipsed, sinful mankind is left to the demonic torment of suicidal desires. Here in graphic terms the author of Revelation has portrayed the ultimate results of apostasy and opposition to God. In all this the only safety belongs to the sealed. In Christ they are free from darkness and despair. Regardless of when John's readers thought this plague would appear they would perceive a powerful appeal to stay true to the gospel no matter what the temporal consequences.


Transition

"The first woe has passed. Behold two more woes come after this."
Rev 9:12
This transition verse, along with 11:14, makes it clear that the three woes are to be identified with the fifth, sixth and seventh trumpets.

The Sixth Trumpet
"The sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns of the golden altar that is before God. It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number.
"The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.
"The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts."
Rev 9:13-21 NIV
Exegetical Meaning

Verse 13 explicitly indicates that the events of the sixth trumpet occur in relation to the activity of intercession and judgment taking place at the golden incense altar. The commanding voice from the four horns of the altar is probably the voice of Christ.
In verse 14 there is an interesting contrast to Rev 7:1-3. Four angels are bound at the great river Euphrates. Their release brings great evil to mankind. On the other hand, in chapter 7 the angels are at the extremities of the earth and restrain evil by holding it back. Thus these two groups of angels are not the same. Since the winds of Rev 7 and the angels of 9:14 are both restrained and produce evil results when released, they may well be symbols of the same thing. If so it is likely that the sixth trumpet reveals a later development of the situation in Rev 7:1-3. Thus, the events of this plague take place in the very shadow of the consummation.

The Euphrates River was the northern border of the land promised to Abraham (Gen 15:18; Josh 1:4, etc.). The language here is reminiscent of Isa 8:7,8 where the Assyrian invasion of Judah is described in terms of the Euphrates River overflowing its banks and flooding Palestine. Here again the Euphrates is the source of a great assault against God's people. This plague appears to be a gathering of the forces of evil for the final battle (cf. 16:13-16; 20:7-9).

It is arguable whether the hour, day, month and year of 9:15 are to be understood as successive periods of time or as the point of time at which the angels are released. The grammar leans in favor of the latter. In either case the time of release should probably be associated with the decisive moment of Rev 10:6 when chronos comes to an end.

As in Rev 7:4, John doesn't see 200,000,000 horsemen in 9:16, he hears the number. This is Satan's host in contrast to the sealed of God who number 144,000. In verses 17-19 the horsemen are equipped with material from the lake of fire. This plague is a composite with the fifth trumpet, for the horsemen not only harm men with the fire, smoke and sulphur which comes out of their mouths but with their tails, which remind one of 9:10. The flavor of these images reminds one of the beasts of chapter 13 and the frogs which come out of their mouths in 16:13. Thus the sixth trumpet is related to the account of the final crisis in Rev 13-16.

In Rev 9:20,21 there are many references to the fall of Babylon in the Old Testament. The images of idolatry are drawn from Dan 5:4,23; a description of Babylon just before the Euphrates River dried up! Verse 21 is based on Isa 47:9-12, a prediction of Babylon's fall.

In summary, this trumpet is based on imagery that points in two directions. There are references to Babylon in the Old Testament and its river, the Euphrates. And there are many connections with the three-fold Babylon of the end-time crisis. Since the closest parallels are with Rev 16:12,13 it seems reasonable to suggest that John was here portraying the gathering of Satan's host which precedes the battle of Armageddon. With this plague we clearly enter the arena of final events.


Interlude
The view of Satan's host in Rev 9:13-21 is balanced by a view of the experience of God's people during this period in Rev 10:1-11:14. They are seen in terms of the fulfillment of Daniel's time prophecies (Rev 10:6 cf. Dan 12:7). Their task is the proclamation of the gospel to the world so that the end can come (Matt 24:14; Mark 13:10).


The Seventh Trumpet
"The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
"The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever."
And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying:
"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
The nations were angry;
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints
and those who reverence your name,
both small and great--
and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
Rev 11:15-18 NIV

Exegetical Meaning

In Rev 10:7 it is stated explicitly that the "mystery of God (to mustêrion tou theou)" will be consummated (etelesthê) at that point in history when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet (hotan mellê salpizein). The mystery of God is an acronym for the gospel in the New Testament (Rom 16:25,26, cf. Col 1:25-28; Eph 6:19). Thus, the sounding of the seventh trumpet signals the close of the great work of proclaiming the gospel to every nation, kindred, language and people (Rev 14:6,7). It ushers in the final events connected with the battle of Armageddon.
The seventh trumpet irreversibly sets the final events in motion. The Godhead reclaims the kingdom of the world to the rejoicing of heaven. The nations, led by the dragon, make their last attempt to prevent this. The battle of Armageddon, between the wrath of the nations and the wrath of God, is fought. The result is victory for Almighty God, reward for the saints and destruction for their enemies.

Thus the seventh trumpet contains a summary foretaste of the final victory of God and a summary introduction of the third woe, the climax of all evil. The seventh trumpet has set the stage for the complete outline of final events that begins in chapter 12....."

http://www.andrews.edu/~jonp/inter7t.htm

So how do we reconconcile/interpret what Ellen White says on the trumpets, is it to come or have they already started and are historical events?

"This is the sharpest experience I have ever had in a carriage in a storm...I thought of the day when the judgments of God would be poured out upon the world, when blackness and horrible darkness would clothe the heavens as sackcloth of hair...my imagination anticipated what it must be in that period when the Lord's mighty voice shall give commission to His angels, 'Go your ways and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth'. Revelation 6 & 7 are full of meaning terrible are the judgments of God revealed. The seven angels stood before God to receive their commission. To them were given seven trumpets. The Lord was going forth to punish the inhabitants of the earth. When the plagues of God shall come upon the earth hail will fall upon the wicked about the weight of a talent." Letter 59, 1895.

"Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth." Maranatha 237, 3 Selected Messages 426.

To understand the trumpets requires careful, point-by-point study. I do believe that these were future to Mrs. White's perspective. It may be, however, that they are not all future to our current perspective. They may be fulfilling even now.

The first trumpet is found in Revelation 8:7.



What do these symbols represent? When we can understand the message, then we will be able to understand to what and when it applies.

Trees represent leaders, kings, rulers, even spiritual leaders. Grass represents people in general. What is special about the color green? Why is the color of the grass specified?

What is significant about "the third part"? How might this differ from the first, second, or fourth parts? The phrase "the third part" occurs 13 times in Revelation out of 15 total occurrences in the Bible. The phrase "the fourth part" occurs just once in Revelation of ten times in the Bible. Are these parts related, as one Bible student believes, to the four parts in Jesus' parable of the sower? Are those of the third part representing those which allowed the cares of this world to crowd out God's light?

And does "the fourth part" represent God's true followers, as the good ground in which the seed bore fruit in Jesus' parable?



If it does not represent God's people, why would Death have to be given permission to have power over them?

Might this first trumpet, then, represent a period of special persecution of God's people, in which they are persecuted and martyred? Would not the "green grass" represent those which have faith, and have been watered by the Water of Life? (See Zechariah 10:1.)

The second angel...is it possible that this represented the events of 9/11? Take a look at the parallels:



What do these symbols represent? Again, that must necessarily be our starting point. The most important symbol in this trumpet is clearly the word "sea." The whole trumpet relates to the sea. We know that sometimes "sea" represents peoples, nations, or multitudes. But here, I believe, the representation is a little more precise than this. I would suggest it represents the same kind of "sea" of which it is said there will no longer be in Heaven.


This verse, if not understood symbolically, would be immediately contradicted by those verses which refer to the "sea of glass." It also cannot refer to the people of heaven, noted in Hebrews 11 to be as "the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable."

I submit that the sea spoken of here may be a more common one, and we need a "sea change" (pun intended) in our thoughts to understand this. It represents the economies/financial markets of the world, including commerce, trade, and business.

If this is the case, and "sea" represents economy and commerce, we can begin to understand the rest of the message of the second trumpet.

A portion of the sea is said to become blood. That's a way of saying it died. And a portion or category of the "creatures" in the sea also become blood, i.e. die. Perhaps these "creatures" represent organizations, institutions, and companies. They are all composed of people, the more elemental substance of the "sea," so this is just enumerating in more detail what portion(s) of the sea have become blood. The same is true of the ships. Ships in the Bible represent commerce. They represent trade between countries and nations. The represent wealth. For the Israelite nation, King Solomon's reign represented its zenith in the shipping industry, and this corresponded with its zenith in wealth and commerce.

The "great mountain," then, could hardly be any other than the "World Trade Center." If its sheer size, height, value, and the number of banks, etc. that resided in it are not sufficiently significant, one has only to look at its name: World Trade Center. This, for the world of commerce, would have been one of its "great mountains." That it burned with fire is now historical fact. It was burning for several months, in fact.

Did 9/11 affect the world's economies? Of a certain, yes. Every world economy has been shifted out of balance as a result, and we are still wobbling in its aftermath.

Enough for now...

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

This is a good topic for study, considering the times we live in. Any others here who have comments to share on it?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Here's a study I wrote back 1995:

THOU MUST PROPHESY AGAIN
By Pastor Mike Lowe

INTRODUCTION
God commanded the Remnant Church to preach again the prophecies that led up to the Great Disappointment (minus the time elements). “Thou must prophesy again… [only] there should be time no longer” Revelation 10:11,6. Those prophecies are recorded in Revelation chapters 1-11 (the 7 churches, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 thunders and the 2 witnesses). Thus, the prophecies not only cover the history of the Christian Church (First Advent - 1844), they also cover the future of the Remnant Church (1844 - Second Advent).

Dual application prophecies (one prophecy with two separate applications) contain shared and unshared details. In other words, some of the prophetic details are flexible enough to accommodate both applications (historical and future). However, there are some details that obviously apply only to one or the other time period. How can we know the difference? Usually the immediate or surrounding context makes it clear.

The Bible is full of dual application prophecies. Most notable are the Restoration Promises. The Old Testament prophecies that historical Israel failed to realize will eventually be fulfilled by spiritual Israel (the Remnant) in future. For example, ancient Israel should have fulfilled the battle of Gog and Magog (Ezekiel 38). However, disobedience disqualified them. Thus, spiritual Israel will fulfill them in future. See Revelation 20. It is the flexible nature of dual application prophecy that enables it to be fulfilled either historically or in future.

SEVEN CHURCHES
Anciently the Seven Churches literally manifested the strengths and weaknesses John recorded in the Revelation (1-3). However, they also symbolize the history of the Christian Church, beginning with the Apostolic Church and ending with the Remnant Church. Even a casual reading reflects the dual nature of this prophecy. For example, the “ten days” mentioned in Revelation 2:10 refer to the ten years (303-313) the Roman Emperor (beginning with Diocletian) tried to wipe out Christianity once and for all.

SEVEN SEALS
Historical Application. Historically the seven seals (Revelation 6 and 8:1) symbolize the gospel, the rise and fall of Papal Europe, martyrdom, natural signs and wonders, and the Great Disappointment. Note the following brief summary:

1. Gospel Proclaimed
2. Church Corrupted
3. Papal Europe Established
4. Dark Ages
5. Martyrdom
6. Signs and Wonders
7. Great Disappointment

The Protestant Reformation effectively undermined Papal Europe. The signs and wonders that followed caused a major religious awakening. The Lisbon earthquake (1 November 1755), the Dark Day (19 May 1780), and the Leonid Meteor Shower (13 November 1833) fulfilled the first three natural signs listed under the sixth seal.

It is generally believed that Revelation 6:14-17 and 8:1 are yet future. However, it is possible that they may symbolize the developments that led up to the Great Disappointment. The “scroll” may represent the book of Daniel, which unlocked the prophecies. The faith of the Millerites moved “every mountain” of uncertainty. And although millions responded favorably to the message of Christ’s coming, many “hid themselves” from the wrath to come. Following the day of disappointment there was a period of “silence in heaven” before the truth about the heavenly sanctuary was discovered.

Future Application. “I will shew thee things which must be hereafter” Revelation 4:1. The seven churches (Revelation 1-3) culminate with the Remnant Church, therefore, the future application of the seven seals will probably be fulfilled by the final generation of saints during the enforcement of the mark of the beast. Note the following brief summary:

1. Three Angels’ Messages Proclaimed
2. Opposition and Persecution
3. Economic Imbalance and Chaos
4. Little Time of Trouble
5. Martyrdom
6. Great Time of Trouble
7. Silence

The Remnant Church has been proclaiming the three angels’ messages since 1844. During the enforcement of the mark of the beast (the Sunday Sabbath) the chosen people of God will suffer persecution. Economic chaos and natural disasters will cause the “little of time of trouble” (see Last Day Events, chapter 10). Martyrs will be killed until the close of probation.

During the great time of trouble the glorious manifestations of the Second Advent will wring from faithful lips the agonizing cry – “Who shall be able to stand” Revelation 6:17. Then follows the “silence” of the seventh seal. The answer to their question is found in Revelation 7. The translation generation (the 144,000) will stand to be translated alive when Jesus rewards His people with eternal life.

“The righteous cry with trembling: ‘Who shall be able to stand?’ The angels' song is hushed, and there is a period of awful silence. Then the voice of Jesus is heard, saying: ‘My grace is sufficient for you.’ The faces of the righteous are lighted up, and joy fills every heart. And the angels strike a note higher and sing again as they draw still nearer to the earth.” The Great Controversy, page 641.

SEVEN TRUMPETS
Historical Application. Historically the seven trumpets (Revelation 8-11) symbolize the gradual fall of Western and Eastern Rome, the Ottoman Empire, and the investigative judgment. Note the following brief summary:

The Conquest of Western Rome by:
1. Alaric the Goth
2. Genseric the Vandal
3. Attila the Hun
4. Odoacer the Heruli

The Ottoman Empire:
5. Subjugates Eastern Rome for 150 years (1299-1449)
6. Conquers Eastern Rome (1449)
(a) Collapses 391 years and 15 days later (11 August 1840)

The Heavenly Sanctuary:
7. Investigative Judgment

Future Application. In future the seven trumpets may symbolize events which transpire after the close of probation. See Revelation 8:2-5. When the “angel” (Jesus) finishes the investigative judgment of the living He will declare – “It is done” (Revelation 21:6). His work accomplished Jesus, who had been facing the ark of the covenant, will turn around and with “golden censer” in hand leave the most holy place.

Passing through the holy place on His way to earth Jesus “came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer… and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth” Revelation 8:3,5. “Jesus tarried a moment in the outer apartment of the heavenly sanctuary, and the sins which had been confessed while He was in the most holy place were placed upon Satan, the originator of sin, who must suffer their punishment.” Early Writings, page 280.

Once probation closes the trumpets and plagues will wreak havoc. “Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth.” 7BC, page 982. How long will it last? “And I saw a flaming cloud come where Jesus stood. Then Jesus . . . took His place on the cloud which carried Him to the East, where it first appeared to the saints on earth--a small black cloud which was the sign of the Son of man. While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the East, which took a number of days, the synagogue of Satan worshipped at the saint's feet.” Maranatha, page 287.

The first four trumpets seem to describe an oceanic asteroid impact. Please see the study entitled – How to Survive the Coming Asteroid Impact. The fifth and sixth trumpets may symbolize the reactions of the unsaved when they realize they have been deceived and are lost forever. Please see the study entitled – Revelation Nine. And the seventh trumpet probably describes the moment God reveals the Ten Commandments. “… the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: ‘The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself.’ Psalm 50:6.” The Great Controversy, page 639.


SEVEN THUNDERS
Historical Application. Historically the seven thunders (Revelation 10) were fulfilled during the Millerite Movement. “The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels' messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer.” 7BC, page 971.

Future Application. In future the Remnant Church will once again endure the bitter-sweet experience that attends the proclamation of the three angels’ messages. See Revelation 10. “In this time of persecution the faith of the Lord's servants will be tried. They have faithfully given the warning, looking to God and to His word alone. God's Spirit, moving upon their hearts, has constrained them to speak. Stimulated with holy zeal, and with the divine impulse strong upon them, they entered upon the performance of their duties without coldly calculating the consequences of speaking to the people the word which the Lord had given them.

“They have not consulted their temporal interests, nor sought to preserve their reputation or their lives. Yet when the storm of opposition and reproach bursts upon them, some, overwhelmed with consternation, will be ready to exclaim: ‘Had we foreseen the consequences of our words, we would have held our peace.’ They are hedged in with difficulties. Satan assails them with fierce temptations. The work which they have undertaken seems far beyond their ability to accomplish. They are threatened with destruction. The enthusiasm which animated them is gone; yet they cannot turn back. Then, feeling their utter helplessness, they flee to the Mighty One for strength. They remember that the words which they have spoken were not theirs, but His who bade them give the warning. God put the truth into their hearts, and they could not forbear to proclaim it...

“As the opposition rises to a fiercer height, the servants of God are again perplexed; for it seems to them that they have brought the crisis. But conscience and the word of God assure them that their course is right; and although the trials continue, they are strengthened to bear them. The contest grows closer and sharper, but their faith and courage rise with the emergency. Their testimony is: ‘We dare not tamper with God's word, dividing His holy law; calling one portion essential and another nonessential, to gain the favor of the world. The Lord whom we serve is able to deliver us. Christ has conquered the powers of earth; and shall we be afraid of a world already conquered?’” The Great Controversy, page 608-610.

TWO WITNESSES
Historical Application. Historically the two witnesses (Revelation 11) represent the Old and New Testaments of the Word of God, which witnessed undercover during the 1,260 years of papal persecution (538-1798). Just before this period closed, for three and half years, thousands of Holy Bibles were publicly destroyed during the French Revolution (1793-1797). Since then the popularity of the Bible has been astronomical. During the “42 months” Jesus, our heavenly High Priest, measured the earthly worshippers while He performed the daily services in the holy place. But in 1844 He moved into the most holy place to begin the investigative judgment.

Future Application. In future the two witnesses may very well represent the thousands of faithful saints who proclaim the three angels’ messages during the final crisis. Concerning His chosen people Jesus says – “Ye are my witnesses” Isaiah 43:12. Shortly before the close of probation the “beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit” (Papal Europe Restored) will be responsible for the execution of large numbers of God’s faithful witnesses. However, not long thereafter during the outpouring of the plagues they will behold the special resurrection. Thousands will die in a massive earthquake unsettling the misplaced faith of “the tenth part” of those who sided with the great “city” (Babylon). Out of fear they will glorify God.

It's good to see members waking up to the importance of the trumpets and seals. Mike, your reapplication of them to after the close of probation I think is partly correct. The trumpets and seals appear to me to fall after probation closes for the unwise virgins - that is, for Laodicea's who spurn the counsel of the True Witness. But the sounding trumpets are what awakes all ten of the sleeping virgins. It seems to me the wise trim their lamps and go out to proclaim the message 'Behold the bridegroome cometh, go ye out to meet him'.

By the way, I just came across a facinating reapplication of Revelation 13 in Ellen White's writings. I've thought Rev 13 applied primarily to the future for many years. This statement though is radical for re-applying the first beast of Rev 13 to Satan's impersonation of an angel of light rather than to Catholicism. I'll post it on a new thread.

I agree that the sounding of the trumpets awakes all the sleeping virgins, but I always saw that there was 3 groups in the end time,
1. the prophets (the 10 wise virgins, or 144K)
2. the great harvest
3. the wicked (I think the 10 foolish virgins are included in here)

The sounding of the trumpets is to awake all, through the prophecizing of the 144K. The prophecizing and the natural disasters resulting from the first 4 Trumpets, will cause a time(1260 days) to seperate the good seeds from the tares, the lamb from the goats, the good fish from the bad, etc...

I really don't see that the close of probation is before the trumpets. In the Day of Atonement, the trumpets were sound before that day.

For sure there is a phenomena described in Dan 12 "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away". I still don't have a full grasp and it seem to correlate with Rev 8:3.

I believe that Rev 8:1 is part of Rev 7. Rev 6 shows the 6 seals, and Rev 7 brings into context of the 6 seals with the 144,000, the great multitude(which is already in heaven and come from the great tribulation Rev 7:14) and close with the opening of the last seal which is after the Millenium.

Rev 8:1 shouldn't be taken as the start of Rev 8 with the Trumpets.

I'm suggesting a progressive closing of probation, Elle; first for the unwise virgins and later for those who hear the 'midnight cry' to go out to meet the bridegroom. While that message is given, the unwise discover they have no oil.


Ellen White speaks of 'an overwhelming suprise' that will burst upon the earth and not only on the earth, but on Adventists. I believe that huge surprise is the sounding of the trumpets. And it seems to me (tell me your thinking, Forum) that the reason Adventists are also taken by surprise is that they are sleeping like the virgins, wise and foolish, all of them assuming that Sunday laws must come first before the major judgments of God are poured out.

Mark, I for one do not think the surprise will precede the outpouring of the seven last plagues. I suspect some will know when probation has closed for everyone. Most likely the 144,000 will know. They will fulfill the grain and grape harvest prayers described in Rev 14:15 and 18. How could they pray for the harvest of souls if they were unaware probation has closed for everyone?

Ellen White wrote:


In this passage she makes it clear probation closes for everyone when the last of the 144,000 is numbered and sealed. And then the seven last plagues are poured out.

Mark, Jesus explained how the surprise will overwhelm, in a warning..."And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and the cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares" Luke 21:34

"But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief." 1 Thessalonians 5:4

As long as we walk in the light and not in darkness, we are safe, we'll not be overwhelmed nor overtaken, for "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth...If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:5-8

But all denominations, including Adventists are "overcharged with..the cares of this life" As a group we are looking far into the future, college plans, retirement plans - meanwhile the earth is slowly breaking up beneath our feet - 8.8 in Chile. As individuals we should be repenting as did Daniel in Chapter 9.

Those with more light are more accountable, thus mercy leaves them first.
________________

Excellent point Gordon. The root of the cause for being taken by surprise is what Christ said. But notice that these things the Lord warned against result in a distorted prophetic view, like the Jews had in Christ's day. It is the same today. Adventists who are carnally minded and not in step with the Lord will be surprised because their prophetic vision is impared. The Lord could not correct even the disciple's understanding of prophecy during His earthly ministry. Adventists, myself included, need to examine our assumption that we are somehow immune from major prophetic blind spots. Many of us will be blindsided.

Mark, do you have any ideas how most time-serving SDAs will be surprised? I get the impression a large number of SDAs in North America are unconcerned about prophecy and more concerned about building castles.

I listened to David Westbrook's "Out of the Cities" webinar yesterday. He believes like I do that it will be a fatal mistake for us if we wait for Sunday Laws to leave the cities. He makes the point that althought Ellen White at one point said Sunday laws would be a signal to leave the large cities, she later said repeatedly to leave the cities now. Her view apparently changed. He explains why it did.

I admit I was skeptical of his interpretation at first but I've since changed my views. I'm convinced that if we wait for Sunday laws and ignore her counsel to leave the cities now we do it at our peril.

We are studying them at church, after the sermon we get together and have a potluck then go into the study. Two of our members are doing it and both have had trouble, so I am kind of waiting for them to finish just to see if a better understanding is there to be unvieled....

Some are concerned with building prophetic castles.

That seems like an reading of Jesus parable which takes extensive liberties with the text.Tell me, why would Adventists be excluded from the parable of the sleeping beauties? Are there other reasons than a highly devekoped spiritual pride to assume Jesus warnings only apply to others?

Of the viewpoints regarding the trumpets given above, professor Pauliens seems the best to me.

Regarding Jesus sermon on the last times which has also been referenced in this thread, let me give you the context, which might curb some of the more speculative uses thereof..

So, Jesus is asked about the last times. He starts by warning them against imposters. He tells them the times will be bad, with wars and natural disasters following one after another. (These are all things which have plagued earth every year and decade since Jesus spoke those words. The nonspecificity of this is made more explicit later in the sermon.) Jesus tells them that they will be persecuted and hated among the peoples, and further warns that this harshness of reality will lead many to give up.
Then comes some extraordinarily bad times which ends in Jesus return. (Jesus refers to Daniel who ties this to the end of daily sacrafices which seems to me to tie to the crusifixion. Then again, people didnt flee to the mountains that time. And were those days the most desperate times this world will ever encounter? If yes, the worst is 2000 years behind us, if no, the worst is yet to come.)
However, after describing the second return, He tells us that the time is hidden for everyone except the Father. (Many have since thought that they share secret information with the Father which not even Jesus is aware of, then again, Jesus did warn about false prophets already..)
So, working towards the ten virgins parable, what will things be like before the end? Like Noah, nothing out of the ordinary will be seen (would it be saying too much to make an exception for the boat gaining height on dry land?). People will be going about their daily chores the very day of the arrival of the Son of Man. Believer and unbeliever working side by side. Jesus advice, be always prepeared.
Jesus then tells a story about the dutiful servant and the negligent servant. Neither knowing the time of their masters return, noting that the negligent servant assumed he knew about his masters return. Jesus warning, the negligent will cry alone in the dark.
The ten virgins, all whom had lamps and all whom sleept. The only difference was that some had obtained oil before they left to wait for the groom. Jesus advice, be always prepeared.
The servants who were set to invest their masters money. Most of them did their best and were rewarded, one did nothing and was punished. Jesus warning, the negligent will cry alone in the dark.
The judgement of sheep and goats. The sheep had worked to care for the hungry and thirsty, entertained the stranger, clothed the naked and visited the prisoner and the sick. The sheep seem unaware that doing these things were service to the Son of Man. The goats on the other hand are scolded for neglecting to do all the good things the sheep were busy doing. The sheep inherit the Kingdom of God, the goats become burgers on the eternal fire.
(Some christians are here accusing Jesus of preaching the "false gospel" they call "social gospel".)

So is there a theme? Three of the five later parts press the importance of being ready, while the other two warn about the consequences of making assumptions and excuses about God and His timetables.

Tying this better to the topic, lets consider why Jesus doesnt add a parable where he tells his diciples that knowledge of the prophecies are an important factor in being prepeared?

PS. Greenie, your not the first and most likely not the last who apply prophecy to events which hit our headlines but which may in time be but a ripple in the weave of history.

Tomas, Christ didn't use a parable to highlight the importance of a prophetic understanding because He wanted to underscore the issue by telling us directly to study and understand the prophecies of Daniel. This is the only direct instruction of Christ to study a certain area of scripture - the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel. It was of such importance that He told us directly in plain language to study it.

And, in addition to that direction, so that no one would be left wondering what weight should be attached to them, He also gives us three admonitions in Revelation to study and understand those prophecies.