The "motions of sin" - What does it mean?

The apostle Paul talks about the motions of sin that worked in us before we were born again, the deeds of the body that must be mortified in the Spirit, the sin that dwells in us (that is, in our flesh), and the manifested works of the flesh. What do these expressions mean?

Romans
7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Galatians
5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans
8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The tendency to sin is genetically inherited. It has become a natural part of our "being".

Was the tendency to sin also genetically inherited by Christ in His humanity?

Absolutely.

Heb 2:14, "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil..."

ZZP

Mike,

It might be useful to take a look at the original Greek to gain some insight into what Paul was talking about. The Greek word oddly translated in the KJV in Romans 7:5 as "motions" is pathema which is probably a derivative of the Greek word pathos. (I say "oddly" since this is the only time it is translated as "motions" which seems to have no correlation to the Greek word's definition.) Pathema is most frequently translated as "suffering" or "affliction". Many other translations translate it in Romans 7:5 as "passions". This is the classic meaning of "The Passion (suffering) of the Christ".

It seems that this describes the consequences of sin in us, the effects we see and know of our sinful condition, that which we cannot escape because we are born with inherited sinful degeneration. Even the present day meaning of the English word "pathos" captures an aspect of the idea: "A quality, as of an experience...that arouses feelings of pity, sympathy, tenderness, or sorrow." We are in a most pitiful and sorry condition.

But I think that a more common English word which is also derived in part from that original Greek word captures the real core meaning of what Paul is talking about - pathological. It is the pathogen of sin in us that makes us the pathological sinners that we are! That inescapable pathogenic characteristic in all of us reinforces that the pathos of Christ is our only hope. The book of Romans is Paul's defining pathology of sin and God's treatment plan to eliminate sin. The whole Biblical story is all about the pathogenesis of sin and Jesus Christ's revelation of its final and conclusive cure. He is the Alpha and Omega...

Tom

Daryl,

Jesus was born with mankind's "fallen nature" which included the "tendency to sin".

Jesus experienced a greater temptation to sin than any other human who has ever lived.

Bob, yes, the tendency to sin is inherent within all of us. In fact, unless we’re born again, we cannot not sin.

Daryl, I agree with Bob and ZZP. Jesus inherited the same sinful flesh nature all of inherit. Of course, unlike all of us, He never acted out the unholy thoughts and feelings generated and communicated by His fallen human nature. He partook of the “divine nature” the entire time He was here.

Tom, excellent insights. If we take all of Paul’s ideas and insights, regarding our sinful flesh nature, would it be safe to say that the “motions of sin” refer to the unholy thoughts and feelings generated and communicated by our fallen flesh nature?

I mean, Paul speaks of the deeds of the flesh and the motions of sin, which dwell in us, as something that can be resisted when we are born again and begin partaking of the divine nature in the same way Jesus did.

What do you all think? Is it possible to resist the motions of sin that clamor within us? like Jesus did?

I belive that it is.

See that word, "belive"? I have this weird hiccup im my typing, I can't seem to get that second "e" in believe. Every time I write believe I have to go back and write it again. After doing it so many times I finally decided it should just be a word, so I told my spell checker to add it to the dictionary, and I gave it a definition.

Here it is: To "belive" is to believe that the power of heaven is available to you, and then to act it.

The answer, I think, to your question Mike is "yes."

We have only to belive.

ZZP

ZZP, if what you say is true, that is, it is possible to resist the clamorings of our fallen flesh, then why do we continue to sin and repent? Are there any excuses that we can claim, like a promise, that accounts for why we cannot cease sinning and repenting over and over again for the same dumb things? Are we doomed to repeating the motions of sin that reside within us? in spite of all Jesus can do for us?

In my estimation the Scriptures teach that we must have three things. They are found in Revelation 3:18.

Jesus says, "I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

What are these things? What is the gold tried in fire which our Lord values so?

The Scriptures tell us.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

It is faith, tried and turned pure.

What is this white raiment?

Revelation 19:8 teaches us about "...fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

Where do we get such righteousness?

Philipisns 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

We take Christs proffered robe of righteousness by faith don't we.

And eyesalve? John 16 teaches us that it is by the Holy Spirit that we are made to see.

My explination may lack a few points, feel free to add to it. This is the crux of the issue as I understand it. We must continue to have our faith tried. We must seek Chist and His righteousness by that faith. And we must pray that the Holy Spirit will reveal to us our faults.

Zuzu's Petals

If we purchase and possess the gold, raiment and eyesalve will it help us resist the motions of sin within our fallen flesh? or, will we continue to sin and repent until Jesus returns and rewards us with a body and nature that does not war against the Spirit?

Mike,

You have shared a very interesting and important dilemna that we all are faced with.....

How can I stop sinning? How can I overcome this "motion to sin" that reigns in my body?

Let me share with you what I have discovered......

The secret to overcoming the "motion to sin" is to stop committing "sin".

Confusing?

Let me explain it in this fashion.....

Definition: Sin; The belief that it is possible to exist "independently of God" which results in a severance of the "Spiritual Relationship" that exists between God and His Creation.

When man severs the "spiritual relationship" with God, he no longer listens to God's voice when He speaks to him. Man no longer allows God to be the "primary influence" in his life.

Man begins to do as he pleases. He seeks to control his own destiny. He seeks to gratify his senses through the pursuit of pleasures. He becomes "self-centered".

As a result of this man begins to mis-behave. In his attitude of "self-centeredness", he is easily angered when he does not get what he wants. In his desire to acquire material things for his own self-gratification, be begins to lie, cheat and steal and even kill.

Over time, as man continues to practice these acts of misbehavior, the very acts themselves become habits, which then become a integral part of man's psyche.

Mis-behaving becomes a part of man's "nature".

This "nature" is passed on from generation to generation and it becomes more "sinful" with each new generation.

This is a form of evolution that exists in the human race.

Now let's say that there is a man/woman that realizes their true condition(motion to sin) and where this condition will take them(eternal death), and they wish to overcome this "motion to sin" and to begin "behaving".

How can they accomplish this?

Some people believe that the "motion to sin" can be overcome through the willful act(s) of obedience to God's Law(s). They study the Law(s) and make valiant attempts to obey it, but are quickly frustrated as they realize that their "motion to sin" is much stronger than their "will to obey the Law". Usually, within a short time they give up and succumb to the realization that it appears to be impossible for them to overcome the "motion to sin".

But there is a way.........

If an man/woman realize their true fallen nature and truly desires to be "changed for the better", then all that they need to do is to restore the "Spiritual relationship" that once existed between God and man.

When the "Spiritual Relationship" is set right(righteousness) or "Atoned" then man begins to perceive the voice of God as He speaks to him. He allows God to become the "primary influence" in his life.

When God gives a command the individual willingly obeys.

This is not easy at first, because the "motion to sin" is resistant to "God's spiritual influence" and the individual will be face with much turmoil and conflict in the initial stages, but as they continue to "choose"(moment-by-moment) to listen to God's voice and continue to "choose"(moment-by-moment) to obey it, they will begin to experience victory(ies) over this "motion to sin".

The evolution to sin will begin to be reversed.

The ultimate victory comes when man "automatically" obeys every command/suggestion that is given by God. The predominance of the "motion to sin" will have been replaced by the pre-eminence of God's voice.

The "Spirit" will be victorious over the "Flesh". The "motion to sin" will be defeated.

Bob, thank you for taking the time to share, in such detail, the formula for successful Christian living. I appreciate the fact your understanding of the dynamics of salvation hold out hope for the tormented sinner. Nothing is more depressing than the idea that we cannot be totally free from sinning in this lifetime.

It wasn’t clear, however, from your description of righteousness by faith, when it is that we can expect to be free from sinning, from giving in to the motions of sin that reign within our inherited fallen nature. Do we gradually outgrow our defective traits of character? by sinning less and less often? until we cease sinning altogether?

The Bible and the SOP makes it sound like once our old man is dead and buried, and we experience the miracle of rebirth, and receive the mind of the new man, and continue to abide in Christ, and continue partaking of the divine nature - we do not and cannot commit a known sin.

In order to commit a known sin, therefore, it sounds like we must first takes our eyes off Jesus, stop abiding in Him, stop partaking of the divine nature - and then all we can do is sin, like before we were born again.

It would seem, then, that we are free to disconnect ourselves from the only source of victory, Jesus, and revert back to the mind of the old man, which implies we would need to resurrect it. Apparently, though, we are not free to sin until we are free from sin, otherwise, apart from Jesus, we are the slaves of sin.

But, if we do not choose to disconnect from Jesus, stop partaking of the divine nature, either by choice or by accident, then it seems reasonable to conclude that we are free to enjoy the results of righteousness, the fruits of the Spirit.

Or, did I miss something?

Perhaps I need to make a distinction between "willful sin" and "habitual sinning".....

Willful sin is committed when I consider the act of committing a sin and then follow through with it with the act of sinning. This would involve my having to sever my relationship with Christ prior to committing the sin, because during the time of my "consideration of sinning" the Holy Spirit is right there, attempting to influence me "not to sin". By "willfully choosing" to commit the sin, I have first rejected the influence of the Holy Spirit to "not sin against God".

Habitual sin takes place when I commit a "misbehavior" without first giving it any thought/consideration. This usually happens when some outside stimuli produces an automatic response.

Example: I hit my thumb with a hammer and reflexively speak a swear word as a response. I have given no thought/consideration to committing this sin prior to its commission.

When I commit a "habitual sin" the Holy Spirit will usually remind me of my misdeed, and I will automatically repent of the misdeed and continue onward with my "spiritual relationship" with God.

When I commit the "willful sin" the Holy Spirit will attempt to bring me back into the severed "spiritual relationship" with God first. I will have to choose how I will respond to the Holy Spirit's biddings.

In the case of the "habitual sins", it is possible to finally gain victory over them, so that my reflexive responses will not be misbehaviors. It took time to develop these "habitual sins", which have now become part of our very nature, and it will take time to overcome them, but it can be done within an individual's lifetime. It is a "moment-by-moment" process.

I think that the term "motion to sin" is synonymous with "habitual sinning".

In regards to the "willful sin", if I do not choose to re-establish my "spiritual relationship" with God, then my eternal salvation is in peril.

1 John 5:16-17 seems to make a distinction between these two types of sin.

Yeah, that makes sense too. That's what I meant when I mentioned choosing to sin (willful, deliberate, intentional, premeditated) versus sinning accidentally (spontaneously, habitually, unintentionally). Swearing spontaneously can be embarassing, especially as a pastor.

However, I'm not so sure "the motions of sins" are habitual sins, or sins that do not lead unto death. It makes more sense to me to associate the motions of sins with the clamorings of our fallen flesh. Our sinful nature has, as it were, a mind and voice of its own. It generates and communicates unholy thoughts and feelings, which, in Christ, we must learn to recognize and resist.

AH 127, 128
The lower passions have their seat in the body and work through it. The words "flesh" or "fleshly" or "carnal lusts" embrace the lower, corrupt nature; the flesh of itself cannot act contrary to the will of God. We are commanded to crucify the flesh, with the affections and lusts. How shall we do it? Shall we inflict pain on the body? No; but put to death the temptation to sin. The corrupt thought is to be expelled. Every thought is to be brought into captivity to Jesus Christ. All animal propensities are to be subjected to the higher powers of the soul. The love of God must reign supreme; Christ must occupy an undivided throne. Our bodies are to be regarded as His purchased possession. The members of the body are to become the instruments of righteousness. {AH 127.2}

Okay, what about spontaneous sinning? If it requires years of undoing and unlearning, a reversal of the evolutionary process, in order to gain the victory over unintentional sinning, then what about the promises of God? Why are they worded in such a way as to lead us to believe it is possible to cease sinning now? the moment we're born again?

I believe that it is "possible" for an individual to stop sinning(acts of willful or habitual misbehaviors) right now and never sin again.

I also know that it is "improbable" that anyone has been able to accomplish this. (Though I do know of some individuals who have come pretty close.)

Yes, it is true that we must bring the "lusts of the flesh" into subjection, but the only way that I know that this is possible, is to maintain and ongoing "spiritual relationship" with God.

"....By beholding we become changed...."

May I repeat myself....

When we enter into a "Spiritual relationship" with God, we are "set-right" with God. We are "Atoned" to Him. He wipes the slate clean that has all of our record sins written on them. Our past sins are as if they had never existed.

Now, we proceed with our lives and make every attempt to remain in obedience with God's Will as He imparts it to us through His Holy Spirit.

He has promised that He will always be with us, guide us and provide us with needed understanding/wisdom. As long as we maintain this open channel of communication with Him, we are at a distinct advantage when it comes to overcoming the sins of misbehavior.

As long as we remain "At-One" with God, we are without sin, because sin is the belief/desire(and subsequent acting upon such belief/desire) that we can exist "independently" from God.

The "sins of willful misbehaviors" are a symptom of our attempt to "separate" from God.

We should not become discouraged if we do not recognize "perfection" in our lives. We must always keep in mind, that God's Grace is all-sufficient and that His Love and Mercy covers a multitude of sins.

The important thing to keep in mind is that it is of the utmost importance that we endeavour to maintain that "spiritual relationship" with God and allow Him to change us in the manner and within the time that He deems neccessary.

Cool. That sounds good to me. I like nothing more than abiding in Jesus, maintaining that spiritual relationship with God.