The Judgment of the Living

I watched until the thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days sat, whose robe was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like flames of fire, and His wheels like burning fire. A stream of fire went out and came out from before Him. A thousand thousands served Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The judgment was set, and the books were opened. Dan 7:9, 10.

Testimonies Volume 8 contains this curious statement by Sister White:



The above statement is fascinating not only for the fact that Ellen White clearly says there is more to learn about the mark or 666, but also because she tells us exactly when it will be learned - at the unrolling of the scroll. When is that? The phrase "unrolling of the scroll" refers to the time pictured in Daniel 7 quoted above and in Revelation 5 when the Lamb, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, takes the mysterious seven-sealed book that no one in heaven or earth is worthy to open or read, and, one by one, breaks its seals, unrolling and revealing its hidden contents.

For decades Adventists have taught that the scroll was unsealed centuries ago and this is what William Miller taught before us. But in the above quote God through the prophet tells us we need to expand our view. He says that this book that is in His right hand is still sealed, concealing a knowledge of its full contents including the full meaning of 666, the mark of the beast, and likely other things as well. However He is also forewarning us that this will change in the near future.

God through the Apostle has told us that "Judgment begins with the household of God" and speaking to Adventists, Ellen White tells us that God is measuring us.


I take these inspired statements to mean that the judgment of the living within spiritual Israel, the church, is an ongoing reality. But at a certain divinely appointed time that process expands to include the world and like the cross, this transition marks the final era, the finishing of the Atonement, judgment day. And just as the events surrounding the crucifixion were plainly foretold by the prophets, we should expect that an event of this magnitude - all the world being arraigned before the bar of God - will be clearly delineated in prophecy as well. Ellen White implies that Revelation 5 is a vivid description of that event:



When the Lamb takes the book, which I believe He is about to do, and the judgment of the living turns to the world, then those who are spiritually awake will soon understand things that they don't currently understand; God will remove His hand from the concealed portions of the book and the issues relating to the mark will be made plain by the Holy Spirit to them. Then those with the oil of the Spirit in their lamps will witness to the riches of Christ and His Truth contrasting it with the spurious falsehood of the Anti-Christ, the beast and his mark, 666. Satan and his deceptive, politically correct kingdom will be fully exposed and he will fall forever like lightening from heaven.

How will we know when judgment day begins for the world?

1. We'll know by seeing it with our own eyes and hearing it with our ears. Like the cross God will direct the attention of humanity to it in real time. "And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him sitting on the throne. And when He had taken the book . . . I heard every creature which is in the Heaven and on the earth, and under the earth, and those that are in the sea, and all who are in them, saying, Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb forever and ever." Rev 5:7, 8 and 13. According to the scripture every living creature on earth will be aware of this event, and more than this they will acknowledge the Lordship of Christ as the Jews submitted to the authority of Christ at the start of His ministry when He cleansed the temple.
2. We'll know it by the seals being broken. The first seal is the rider on the white horse, Christ, and is symbolic of the latter rain. The second, the red horse of war, the third, famine and the fourth, death will also be released.
3. We'll also know by the sounding of the trumpets of Revelation 8 to 11. Ellen White indicates these are more or less concurrent with the seven seals and the latter rain. 3SM 426.1, 15MR 219.2, 220.1, EW 14 -15.

Revelation 10, 11 and 14 also parallel the trumpets and seals. In these chapters we have a picture of what the final and straight testimony of the church and the 144,000 will be: That testimony will be the everlasting gospel and its warning will be against the beast and his number.

In chapter 10 John, a symbol of the end-time church is given a little book of prophecy, a book that was formerly sealed, and directed to eat it. This prophecy is something he has never digested before. He does eat it and it is sweet in his mouth but his stomach is made bitter. Why is this prophetic word bitter? Not only because the Lord did not come as expected in 1844 but also because he is then told to rise and give the final prophetic message, the measuring message of the Two Witnesses to the world. The message is bitter in proportion to its unpopularity. While it is a message of good news that gives hope and life to the humble, the same message condemns the pride, skepticism, sensuality, vice and lawlessness of spiritual Sodom and Egypt.

Notice carefully and study the content of that message, the measuring/judgment message in Revelation 11 comparing it with the judgment hour message of Revelation 14: this final message of the three angels and of the Two Witnesses is not only a call to Sabbath and health reform. The Sabbath and health are central to the message but the message itself is the entire everlasting gospel - the offer of complete moral renewal, complete freedom and restoration into the image of Christ through a faith that works by love and purifies the soul, a faith that enters within the veil.

The sad fact that the majority of affluent Adventists have, like the wealthy citizens of Sodom, adopted to an alarming degree the world's moral standard in the face of this message and the fact that many of them are well down the path of slaying the influence of these Two Witnesses by a false gospel is strong evidence that the true gospel, in answer to the prayers of the saints, is about to go to the world in power.

Friends, this is where we are now: The Lamb is about to take the book from the Father's hand. When He does, the future will be on us, myself included, with unwonted force, trumpet after trumpet, seal after seal, thunder after thunder. Let's repent while we can, abide in love and make our calling and election sure because when the cry goes out, "Behold the bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet Him", there will not be any time to buy more oil. Let's gratefully respond from our hearts to the fathomless love of God and make our unwavering choice for Him now.

Although I do not share your sense of immediacy, I do relish the thought of church members reproducing and reflecting the lovely traits of Jesus' character.

Above I asked: "How will we know when judgment day begins for the world?" In addition to the above three things I listed here is a fourth:

Above Ellen White is quoting from Daniel 7 but she places it in the future rather than in 1844 when the judgment began showing that Daniel 7, (like the first warning message of Revelation 14 that announces that "the hour of His judgment is come") applies especially to the judgment of the living. So we can add this - the recovery and display of the two tables of stone, the two witnesses - to the list of things to look for when the judgment of the living for the world begins. (But, for the church that time is now because as the apostle states the time is come that judgment must begin at the household of God.)

Don't trust every rider on a white horse...

The JOTL involves people who claim to be Christians. During the "little time of trouble" everyone alive will eventually embrace Jesus in one of two ways - 1) in accordance with the Word of God, or 2) in accordance with the Word of God as changed by the World. Evil angels personating holy angels and deceased humans will work wonders and deceive everyone not solidly standing on the Word of God. Finding the Ten Commandments written on two tablets of stone during this time period would not do much for or against either end-time movements. No one doubts what God commanded in the OT. It comes down to the seventh-day sabbath and the first-day sabbath. This is the final test of loyalty. Jesus will not judge, number, or seal anyone before they have passed this final test. Passing or failing this test seals and settles their eternal destiny. As of today, no one has taken this test. No one has been judged, numbered, or sealed. There have been plenty of other tests since the fall of man, but the test described in end-time prophecies is yet future - of as today.

I agree. The future revelation of the two tables will be like Christ's two cleansings of the temple. It will have no positive impact on those who refuse to believe. It will harden them further. On the other hand it will, like the cleansings, be a powerful revelation of His divine authority. When the judgment is set and the Lamb takes the seven sealed book everyone will bow to His authority but their submission will be short lived. Although the latter rain will be poured out soon after like the early rain was poured out not long after the second cleansing, the witness of heaven to the universal authority of Christ will still be rejected by the world. By their conduct they will say "We will not have this man to reign over us." Like the Jews, apostate Christianity will choose Barabbas.

Mountain man,
This looks like it could be an interesting thread.
I will make one comment and go back to my studies.

Those who have bound themselves together fearing that they will fall through a trapdoor if they should receive the light of heaven are the Laodiceans that think themselves rich and in need of nothing. It is the remnant that will respond to the Laodicean message and be among the faithful virgins that will come into the unity of faith and love.

The judgment of the dead began at the dead church while it was dead (22 October 1844). When it had its deadly wound healed (1929), the judgment Hour of the living followed. When that hour was ended the head of the church resigned in the midst of fallen Babylon's fornication scandal (2013). It now has two living heads as ancient Babylon had two kings when Daniel was made the third ruler and Babylon fell to Cyrus who was a type of Christ. But you do not share the sense of urgency?

If you want to understand the formation of he image-beast, study the beast, the papacy!

But do not expect the character of Jesus to be reproduced and represented in those who are so rich that nobody (not even Jesus) can tell them anything. The Mark of the Beast will divide those who are to go to perdition from those who will be sealed by God. And Judgment will begin at the Church of God.

Even now the cry is going forth. But those who want to wait and see before looking at the details will wait until their probation is wasted. And those who hear and join in the cry (who watch and search the Scriptures) will find Christ and be saved by Him.

To God be the glory!

HC, it must be thrilling (and somewhat scary) to believe, as you do, that the JOTL is happening and people are being numbered and sealed among the 144,000 (people who will not taste death, who will be translated alive when Jesus returns). My studies have led me to believe the JOTL will begin some time after the MOB is legislated and enforced. Those who make up the 144,000 (the translation generation) must first demonstrate faithfulness and obedience during the enforcement of the MOB before they can be numbered and sealed.

IMHO
It is frustrating.
To see that the warning is being ignored by those who should be giving the right message at the right time. Instead they are crying peace and safety and focusing on a future time when now is the day of salvation. They are squandering their final moments of probation.

When the MOB is in place, will God's people be sealed?
Will God seal those who have not been Judged?

As the JOTD determined who is worthy to be raised to life eternal,
the JOTL has ended (everyone's status is current) and they can be moved from the book of life to the book of death and visa versa as they accept or reject Jesus
.
Thus, the MOB will be accepted by those who are judged unworthy
to receive the seal of the living God.

Why do you place so much emphasis on things you cannot see?

What have you done with regards to the word of Jesus about things that are immediately before your eyes? "I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me." Mat. 25:42-43

James,
How many homeless people do you have living in your home and dining at your table? How many children do you support each month through Asian Aide or another such program? And how many children do you pay the tuition for them to go to a Christian school? How many elderly widows do you visit and make repairs at their home that improve their living conditions? And the list of questions could go on...

You speak of what you know not while thinking that you have knowledge. My Lord tells me well done My faithful servant and He will not reprove me for leaving the other undone. But as I write this note, I see more that I can and more that I will do.

It is written (as I recall):
Study to show YOURSELF approved of God a worker that needs not to be ashamed.
Not by might or by power, but by My Spirit saith the LORD!
My word will not return to Me void saith the LORD, but will accomplish that to which I send it.
There are those living who from studying Daniel and Revelation will start in motion things that will not be stopped.
Many will come from the east and the west to sit at Christ's table, while the childen of the kingdom will be turned away.

I claim those (God's) promises daily and leave not the other undone.

The 7th Jewish month is the month that Hananiah the false prophet died at the word of Jeremiah.
This year the 7th Jewish month begins 29 September 2019.
My understanding of TJOD, TJOL, is that the time allotted is past.
The dispensing of the verdict is about to be a reality.
Political turmoil in the US is about to be an overwhelming surprise to too many!
Israel has been an American pawn for 70 years and judgment is about to be pronounced on her.
The war with Iran will morph into Armageddon at God's appointed time
But those who could see if they would only look are the willful blind leading the blind.

The only encouragement that I get from the status quo is that
I studied
I learned
I shared to the best of my knowledge
and when it comes about... I will not be responsible for the response of the hearers

The promise in Ezekiel is that if I warn of the pending sword
I did my duty
Those who heard the warning will be responsible for their response or lack thereof..

I'm sitting on the sidelines watching, waiting, and praying.
Did not intend to get drawn into a discussion, with you or anyone on this forum at this time

Both happen simultaneously. Living in the moment while being mindful of prophecy is the way of the faithful. Like faith and works they go hand in hand.

Whether prophecy is fulfilled or not, you would die anyhow; so why not leave the events over which you have no control up to God and do whatever your hand finds to do?

By the way, prophecy was not given to put you in a constant state of jitters and alerts (red today, amber tomorrow, green the next, then wow! red again, then green, red, blue, purple, orange, up down up up down up ...). Rather, it was given to console you that though the elements may rage, God will keep you safe and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Prophecy was given to put you at ease! Occupy till He comes. "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 1:7-8

Is this not true today as it was yesterday, as the day it was spoken, and will be tomorrow?

The Bible prophecy that gives the final warning the best I could is summarized.
in my book on MP3

http://bit.ly/2Lm6zLc

The Bible texts are given in the narration
But the Spirit of Prophecy material and other references are footnoted
the program does not read footnotes.
But for those who choose to wait and see if the "rain will come"
I'll wait in the ark thank you.

HC, in an earlier post you said that TJOL went from 1929 to 2013. So since 2013 we've been in a pause like the calm before the storm? Above you suggest the sealing could start September 29 which is 29 and a half days away. But the sealing and the judgment are going on now according to inspiration. "Now is the day of salvation", "grieve not the Spirit of God by whom you are sealed to the day of redemption" because "God is measuring you."

in an earlier post I said that TJOL went from 14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013
The shaking began after 2013.
We are in the time allotted for the sealing; it will climax with the MOB.
Judgment begins at the HOG

We can come to a reasonable conclusion by elimination (striking out what you cannot prove by evident evidence):

1. in an earlier post I said that TJOL went from 14 October 1929 to 14 February 2013
2. The shaking began after 2013.
3, We are in the time allotted for the sealing; it will climax with the MOB.
4. Judgment begins at the HOG

What does (4) mean anyway? Whether it begins in the sky or under a mountain, before the year 2000 or 2020 or 3000 or after, is vain speculation (babies -- potential candidates for salvation -- are still coming into the world anyway) because when Christ returns, he is coming with His reward and everyone will receive their due ALL at once.

Judgment begins at the House of God [HOG]

You may not yet believe that the judgment hour of the Dead ended 22 February 1928
You may not yet believe that the judgement hour of the living ended 14 February 2013
You may not yet believe that the seven popes prophesied have reigned for their 1 hour
(83 years 4 months from Yom Kippur after the healing of their deadly wound in 1929 to the end of the one pope papacy in 2013)
You may not yet believe that the papacy now has two living popes as ancient Babylon had two kings on the night it fell
You may not yet believe that the Euphrates is drying up,
(In one sense ISIS has routed the people living along the Euphrates basin to prepare for the kings of the east
and in another sense the flow of people going into apostate Babylon is drying up because of its fornication scandal)
You may not yet believe that Babylon has fallen because of her fornication scandal 2013,
You may not yet believe that 2019 is the year that most likely ends the 30 years allotted for the formation of the image beast
You may not yet believe that God's judgments will be poured on Israel beginning in 2019
You may not yet believe that God's judgments will be poured upon America beginning in 2019
You may not yet believe that President Trump will fall in 2019
You may not yet believe that President Pence will be in office in 2019
You may not yet believe that Iran will attack American ships

You may not yet believe that all of these things have happened or will soon be upon us
But your lack of belief is not because I failed to tell you.

The Bereans heard the preaching of Paul and checked it out to see if those things were Scriptural
The Antediluvians heard the preaching of Noah and laughed him to scorn.

You may not yet believe that you are choosing to put yourself among the Bereans or the Antediluvians.

But those who value their souls will check it out as did the Bereans
And those who presume that they know all that they need to know will wait and see.

As for me, I told what I understood at the time to the best of my understanding
continued to study until I am overwhelmed with urgency for our salvation
and saddened that you believe not along with so many others with whom I am acquainted on this forum

My watch is steadfast, the warning has been given
The consequences to those who refuse to heed the warning is on them

Rejoice, our Savior is about to stand for His people
God's word will not return to Him void: It will accomplish that to which He sends it
The dumb dogs will not bark and the false shepherds will lead sheep astray
the wheat and the tares will grow together until the harvest
And God will personally take charge of the work to finish it in righteousness
Says the LORD: not by might or by power, but by My Spirit saith the LORD

Again I have left my post to quibble. Habits are hard to change

With the JOTL up to date, we are to prepare to reject that MOB=sealing of God's people.

The Spirit of Prophecy instructs us to study the formation of the papacy to understand the rise of the image-beast...

In the area of the former Western Roman Empire, the papacy arose over a 30 year period from 508 to 538. Before, Pope Vigilius arose as the beast power, the religio-political appointee of the Eastern Roman Emperor was installed the reigning pope was dethroned and died shortly thereafter due to ill treatment. Then Emperor Justinian made it clear that he had the authority as pontiff-maximus to subjugate the church at Rome in his revision of Roman law: Codex Justiniani. In the politics at the time the Western Emperor was deposed before the process began, three Arian kings were plucked up, a queen was assassinated, etc.

The rise of the image-beast (ruling Apostate Protestantism): In the area once composing the Eastern Roman Empire, an emperor (Shaw of Iran) was deposed, the Prime Minister of Pakistan was assassinated, two Islamic leaders have been plucked up. By studying the rise of the papacy, the rise of the image-beast is revealed as it is about to happen. The American president will be removed from office and President Pence will take his place: Not by election but by appointment. The people involved are self-evident, but the timing was unclear. There was a 30-year period from 508-538 that is established historically. Can the 30 year period linking to the rise of the image-beast be identified as well? After the fact it will be easier to see the image-beast in power and count back30 years.

But on the eve of the rise of the image-beast, from studying Jeremiah, It is to be understood in the endtime that Israel was to be subservient to the USA for 70 years. Israel was established in 1948 and signed an armistice in 1949 when the United States appealed to Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq to bring them to sign the agreement.

The fall of the Shaw of Iran links to the rise of the image-beast as the fall of the Western Roman Emperor linked Rome to the Ostrogoths. Then the third Arian king (Witigis the Ostrogoth) was plucked up then Pope Vigilius was installed (and Vigilius' predecessor died soon Thereafter). Likewise, the plucking up of the third king (linked to Iran) takes place around the time when the image-beast is formed (President Pence is placed in office after Trump is broken...how long will Trump live after that???). 1989 Links to America's meddling with the politics in Iran. If the 30 years began in 1989, they end this year 2019. The 7th Jewish month is Tishrei, the Judgment month, so most likely if the Lord is going to make the Israel, USA, and all nations drink of the cup this year we should know more between 29 September 2019 and 29 October 2019 during Tishrei or shortly there after.

Studying Bible prophecy gives us a partial understanding, but when prophecy is fulfilled, we know so much more.

Ellen White wrote the following:

I plainly stated at the Jackson camp meeting to these fanatical parties that they were doing the work of the adversary of souls; they were in darkness. They claimed to have great light that probation would close in October, 1884. I there stated in public that the Lord had been pleased to show me that there would be no definite time in the message given of God since 1844.--2SM 73 (1885). {LDE 35.3}

Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time-proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of our Lord's coming.--10MR 270 (1888). {LDE 36.1}

The people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time [Revelation 10:4-6], reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844.--7BC 971 (1900). {LDE 36.2}

And if President Trump does not fall in 2019, and that President Pence will be in office in 2019, then we say that by faith we believed that, and the facts do not really matter.

Facts, such as:
His child, do you still believe Obama will come back into Presidency? Is that after Pence?

the obsession over prophecy has driven some men to such distraction that they appear like a hermit who had locked himself in a cave for so long that, upon coming out, asks to burrow a generator, a turntable and a pat boone vinyl... whereupon they look upon him and lol

Dear Brother Daryl,

If you better understood what you posted, you would be blessed and more of a blessing to others.

How does Ellen White define "definite time"? How does she use it? Are you implying that she meant something other than "the definite time of Christ's Advent"? There will not be another message about the definite time of Christ's Advent. But the times in "Revelation are not mystical or unintelligible" they have meaning that is being clouded by traditional reinterpretations of EGW's writings.

I have made great efforts to read posts on this forum and refrain from commenting, because of the skepticism that is so strong where faith is needed. But I will not have your blood on my conscience. I sent this note to a brother this morning. It is my current understanding about time setting. That which is most needed at this hour is being trampled in the dust while Satan gloats of his success in keeping God's professed children in darkness.

I learned about the formation of image beast by studying the beast, papacy...

1. The Western Roman Emperor was deposed prior to 508 AD.
2.Then 2 kings are plucked up in the WRE (Western Roman Empire) and there was a political assassination.
3.Then the 3rd King was killed in 538 AD.
4. Deposing the Shah in the area once part of the ERE (Eastern Roman Empire) parallels the fall of the WRE.
5.Assassination of president of Pakistan in the remnants of the ERE
6. Then leaders in Afghanistan and Iraq were plucked up.
7. Iran's leader is next to fall
8. I have been reading the Bible to say that Iran would attack America's fleet in the Persian gulf
Sabbath Iran was accused of attacking Saudi Arabia's oil refinery.

Regarding my views expressed about 2019. I am continuing to study Bible prophecy.
Israel was officially recognized by the US in 1950 (not 1949 as I had initially thought).
Thus, the 70 years allotted to Israel end, not as I suspected in 2019, but in 2020.
And America (Obama) set up Abomination that desolates on 9/20/2016
when he took away the need of Christ's sacrifice and oblation.
Thus, Counting from 9/20/2016 the 1290 days (Daniel 12:11) will end Thursday, April 2, 2020
when the National Sunday Law should come.

"And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
[there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days" (Daniel 12:11).

From 29 September 2019 through 2 April 2020, I expect to see chaos like the world has never seen.
Brothers and sisters in Christ would do well to study the facts with me rather than to
wallow in doubt and skepticism!
The last events will be rapid ones
And those who wait and see like the antediluvians that waited for the rain to fall
will not be ready when those events described in Bible prophecy are upon us.

I have sounded the warning, listened to the skeptics, and wept for God's people.
I do not know what else God would have me to do.

Christian regards,

Guess I'm not familiar with that use.

From other posts:
(Which I thought Pence was going to stand for his people.), but what do you mean by the Savior standing? Maybe you should say what you think is Christ's "Advent".

"reinterpretations of EGW's writings."
Yes, it would be good to read her writings IN CONTEXT, instead of all the ever changing "reinterpretations" of prophecy of both her writings and scripture.


No, not implying -- but directly reading from her writings that she meant all the events following 1844, leading up to Christ's Advent as well as the Advent itself were not to be linked with "definite time"..


I plainly stated at the Jackson camp meeting to these fanatical parties that they were doing the work of the adversary of souls; they were in darkness. They claimed to have great light that probation would close in October, 1884. I there stated in public that the Lord had been pleased to show me that there would be no definite time in the message given of God since 1844.?Selected Messages 2:73 (1885).

Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time-proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of our Lord's coming.?Manuscript Releases 10:270 (1888).

The people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time [Revelation 10:4-6], reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844.?The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:971 (1900).

During the past forty-five years, I have had to meet persons claiming to have from God messages of reproof to others. This phase of religious fanaticism has sprung up again and again since 1844. Satan has worked in many ways to establish error. Some things spoken in these visions came to pass; but many things?in regard to the time of Christ?s coming, the end of probation, and the events to take place?proved utterly false, as your prophesyings and Anna?s have done. Yet they would try to excuse the blunders by twisting the statements about, and giving them another meaning, and go on in the same way, deceiving and being deceived. {2SM 75.2}

The preaching of a definite time for the judgment, in the giving of the first message, was
ordered by God. The computation of the prophetic periods on which that message was based,
placing the close of the 2300 days in the autumn of 1844, stands without impeachment. The
repeated efforts to find new dates for the beginning and close of the prophetic periods, and the
unsound reasoning necessary to sustain these positions, not only lead minds away from the
present truth, but throw contempt upon all efforts to explain the prophecies. (GC457)

From the light that the Lord has been pleased to give me, you are in danger of doing the same work presenting before others truths which have had their place and done their specific work for the time, in the history of the faith of the people of God. You recognize these facts in Bible history as true, but apply them to the future. They have their force still in their proper place, in the chain of events that have made us as a people what we are today, and as such, they are to be presented to those who are in the darkness of error?But the voices do not cease to be heard ? ?This is truth. I have new light.? But these new lights in prophetic lines are manifest in misapplying the Word and setting the people of God adrift without an anchor to hold them. If the student of the Word would take the truths which God has revealed in the leadings of His people, and appropriate these truths, digest them, and bring them into their practical life, they would then be living channels of light. But those who have set themselves to study out new theories, have a mixture of truth and error combined,( 2SM 101-104)

There will always be false and fanatical movements made by persons in the church who claim to be led of God, those who will run before they are sent, and will give day and date for the occurrence of unfulfilled prophecy. The enemy is pleased to have them do this. 2 Selected Messages, 84.

Her writings are so plain on this point.

The counsel is clear:

Let all our brethren and sisters beware of anyone who would set a time for the Lord to fulfill His Word in regard to His coming, or in regard to any other promise He has made of special significance. Testimonies to Ministers, 55.

i like that point that you made there. that's a VERY true saying and worthy of repetition. of all the things you've said, after the minor things have been sifted out, what remains in the sieve is true and sensible. and that statement certainly remains.

His child, if Trump is still in office Jan 1, and neither Pence nor Obama are president, what will you conclude?

Henry, (His Child), Sept 29 and 30 have both been non-events, but like you I thought Trumpets this year could be prophetically significant. And I still think Yom Kippur and Tabernacles could be and the following spring feasts. But IMO it does more harm than good to say something will happen. Hasn't the Lord warned us off that ground? Blessings my friend.

Charity,

Oh NO! 29 September was Jewish New Year, the first day of the ten days of AWE.
Ten days to focus on the 10 commandments before Yom Kippur.
This is the judgment Month on the Hebrew calendar.
A time to remember that we have been living
in the Investigative judgment since 22 October 1844.
A great time for renewal and consecration!

This is my current understanding:
President Trump is about to be broken,
President Pence is getting ready to assume office,
the #IranUSwar about to break loose,
not to mention the Mark of the Beast is probably coming 2 April 2020,
And the Little Time of Trouble that we are in will give way to the Time of Jacob's trouble.

I discovered the 2 April 2020 date a few years ago, but did not understand what it was
and did not want to believe that Jesus would not Come before that
But Jesus has been so kind to work with me and with so many others
to get us ready and to grow us in His love.

Christian regards,
His child Henry

April 2 is about Nissan 8. Can you tell me what scriptures make you think it could be the mark?

Thanks Charity for pointing out my answer.

Now I know what he will say if Trump is still in office.

He will change from absolute declaring, "Broken=Definitely leaves office" to, "not as I had initially thought", or "not as I suspected".


From my study of prophecy, I declare that tomorrow Trump will land on mars.
When he doesn't, then I will say, 'not as I suspected.'


I cry foul......

It is up to you to use the little time of probation that you have left
to seek truth or to squander it in skepticism.

Daniel 9 has its final fulfillment in the endtime
A study of the 70 weeks
The endtime decree to restore Jerusalem Is a teaching of peace.
It was issued 31 May 1998
The prince of the covenant was anointed 20 January 2001
He failed on 9/11/01
and then he made a covenant with many for one week: 17 Sept to 23 Sept 2001
In the midst of the week 20 Sept, he took away the Sacrifice and the oblation
then the one who continues died 2 April 2005
and a blessing came to those who arrived at 17 May 2005

The 70 weeks were doubled
The successor to the prince of the covenant
made a covenant with many for one week: 17 Sept to 23 Sept 2016
He also made a speech in the midst of the week 20 Sept 2016
that took away the Sacrifice and the oblation
counting from that day the continual (Sabbath) will be taken away 2 April 2020

The key to understanding the endtime prophecy is the math in Daniel 9
where the original figures that applied to Christ's fulfillment of prophecy were 62 weeks
In Christ's day it was 6X10+2=62
In the end time it is 6+10X2=32

As I currently understand Bible prophecy,
Michael Pence is the one that sets up the MOB
So President Trump is broken before 2 April 2020
and the war with Iran precipitates (comes before 2 April 2020)
It looks like the #iranUSwar morphs into Armageddon
I'll have to study that more

I am currently focusing on writing "Keep it Simple Saints"
to explain Bible prophecy
That means combing the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, and 1000's of pages of notes
to make it so simple that only a fool would not be able to understand it
In the endtime there are only 2 classes of virgins: the fools and the wise

Thanks for your summary overview. That's helpful to know where you're coming from.

In a nutshell here's my perspective: I'm expecting the Lamb to suddenly take the book from the Father's hand shortly and break those seven seals that Ellen White indicates have a future application. There won't be any guessing then of where we stand prophetically. When the "overwhelming surprise" confronts all of humanity including you and me, we'll know that "the hour of His judgment is come".

Fools make the same mistakes twice, as the old saw says. Some here have made the time-setting mistake more often than twice. Write your book as you wish, but the pen of Inspiration has clearly admonished you against such publications, and I, for one, could never promote such and have it stand on record against me. The Bible, in fact, forbids me to even give you a welcoming salutation. (See 2 John 1:10-11.) It's hard, as a Christian, to understand such strong words, but nothing in the Bible is recorded without reason.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The Laodiceans "need nothing"
They are satisfied with what they know (even if it is not entirely true).
They do not study anything that disagrees with their ideas.
and they are prone to misapply Scripture.

I pray for eyesalve; lest I preach to others and then I be cast away myself.

Christian regards,
His child henry

p.s. continuing to study

War with Iran (first)
President Trump is broken( next)
President Pence sets up Mark of the beast. around 2 April 2020 (in this sequence)

excellent point, couldn't agree more!

That is what they said to Noah after it started raining

Are you already waffling? On 8/2/2019 you stated

and on 9/2/2019 you stated

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe 2019 means 2019. Now maybe you are trying to say he may actually die by 2 April 2020.
And, of course, 2019 is indeed before 2 April 2020. Just wanting to be sure that your previous quotes still stand or you are already admitting false prophecy before the end of the year.

kland,

I appreciate that you're trying to hold His Child accountable, but, really, there's no reason to seek to label His Child as a false prophet with these prophecies: he has already earned that title fair and square with past prophecies that failed. Furthermore, Ellen White tells us that God's people will not be making prophecies upon definite time--words that His Child, addicted to time predictions, has yet to accept. With each new false prophecy, he is adding to his account that he will meet in the final day of reckoning.

It would be a mercy to him, actually, if his membership here were revoked, for it would deprive him of the opportunity to mislead more souls.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Thank you for asking kland

If you want to understand the formation of the image beast study the characteristics of the beast itself---the papacy.
The papacy was allotted 30 years (508-538) to pluck up the three Arian kings. Then it formed.



America began the 30 year countdown to the formation of the image beast in 1989. The three leaders have been plucked up in the remnants of the Eastern Roman Empire:



My studies indicate that President Trump will be broken soon (I suspect this year 2019 but it could be early 2020) President Pence will replace him (without the honor of the kingdom because he was not elected but thrust into office when the disgraced President was removed). President Pence will set up the National Sunday Law on 2 April 2020 as I currently read Bible prophecy. Then the ships of Chittim (Iran) will attack America's fleet (that may not be limited to the Persian Gulf) You must admit that Bible prophecy gives us insights as to what is happening and when it is happening, BUT when those things that have been predicted are fulfilled, we can understand them better.

But there is a danger of waiting to see and not going forward by faith in that which has been revealed. And there is a danger of not rightly understanding things before they happen. That is why we must study to show ourselves approved of God before these things come to pass. Remember the fate of those who waited to see among the ten virgins and in Noah's day?

Green,

God has been merciful to you.
The third angel's message is sounding. President Michael Pence will stand for his people. The time of Trouble will come and climax very soon! And those who you persuade to remain in ignorance and to put off examining the facts will be in danger as are the 5 foolish virgins in Christ's parable. The Investigative Judgment is in the final sealing phase and the Holy Spirit is about to be poured on those who are ready for Him.

If you should cast your cloak of darkness over my ability to proclaim the warning here, you will be held in high regard among the demons for Satan is looking for misguided "Christians" to hinder the cause of God and darken the light when it is needed most.

But God's word will not return to Him void. It will accomplish that to which He sends it.
AMEN!

Uhmm. Why 30?
Did you just make that up?


Henry, I questioned you on this before and you said:

Now do you see why I have a Huge amount of skepticism?

Changing "That means that President Donald Trump will be broken this year: 2019.
Broken=Definitely leaves office."
to
"I suspect this year 2019 but it could be early 2020"

is just not right!

It is fraud, falsehood, deception!

But Henry, you are not showing yourself approved of God.
Either you are waffling, biding time to attempt to sell your books,

OR

You are suffering from the Ron Wyatt syndrome, where you want to believe a lie so much, that you keep telling it to yourself so much that you actually come to believe it in spite of repeated evidence to the contrary.

I just felt this was an absolute statement. And yes, you have demonstrated he has done likewise in the past, I must have let those slip by my notice. Like the ones you brought up, this past statement was a concrete one: "That means that President Donald Trump will be broken this year: 2019.
Broken=Definitely leaves office."
[/quote]

Unfortunately, most of the quotes you used regarding that, you have misapplied. That allows him to seize upon them to promote his falsehoods.

While it may be unfortunate he is misleading others in his local church or otherwise in person, do you really think he is misleading anyone on here?

While I find it of entertainment much like I enjoyed reading Ron Wyatt's errors, I believe both serve as example demonstrations so that none be deceived.

While some or most false pr0fits look 7-10 years ahead, His child is always looking near future. First, it's ABSOLUTELY before the end of the year, but before the end of the year gets here, he SUSPECTS, it may be by spring. But come late February or March, he'll have further INSIGHT and see that it is in the fall. By mid summer, he realizes it wasn't as he INITIALLY THOUGHT, and will ABSOLUTELY be by the end of the year. (Repeat, ad nauseous!)

My understanding of 2019 was self explanatory in context of what I wrote in its entirety in the post in question.
As I continued to study, the possibility of 2020 came to view
It was depending on if I have the correct starting point for the few years allotted for Trump to be broken.
God's promise is "knowledge shall increase"
To forget that only God is infallible is an error.
To apply infallibility to a Bible student is a sin (trying to make a man God).

My books have been offered here for FREE and many chapters have even been posted here for review and comments
Only to have them cherry picked, ignored, and taken out of context!
it was my error to cast the pearls that I had gleaned from studying God's word so liberally here for them to be trampled.
As it is written of the ten virgins, it will happen!
When those events that are coming come and you want to make sense of the rapid pace of prophecy fulfilled
you might read my current book: The Last Trump Shall Sound (Bible prophecy Keep it Simple Saints)
(If you can find a copy of it)

I read the following this morning by Ellen G White as part of my devotional reading:

The disciples were anxious to know the exact time for the revelation of the kingdom of God; but Jesus tells them that they may not know the times and the seasons; for the Father has not revealed them. To understand when the kingdom of God should be restored was not the thing of most importance for them to know. They were to be found following the Master, praying, waiting, watching, and working. They were to be representatives to the world of the character of Christ.

That which was essential for a successful Christian experience in the days of the disciples is essential in our day. "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you." And after the Holy Ghost was come upon them, what were they to do? "And ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Act_1:7-8).

This is the work in which we also are to be engaged. Instead of living in expectation of some special season of excitement, we are wisely to improve present opportunities, doing that which must be done in order that souls may be saved. Instead of exhausting the powers of our mind in speculations in regard to the times and seasons which the Lord has placed in His own power, and withheld from men, we are to yield ourselves to the control of the Holy Spirit, to do present duties, to give the bread of life, unadulterated with human opinions, to souls who are perishing for the truth.

Satan is ever ready to fill the mind with theories and calculations that will divert men from the present truth, and disqualify them for the giving of the third angel's message to the world. -- Review and Herald, Mar 22, 1892.

I found this in my devotions this morning:

All must be careful what they present to the people as truth. Do not present your own imaginations. The enemy tries to warp and twist human minds. To the one who will listen to him, he will present ideas which are odd and peculiar, which will create a sensation. These he leads him to present to others, with a test which he has imagined. Thus Satan sets minds running in wrong channels, diverting them from the genuine tests which God has presented in His Word. {3MR 29.2}
There is no need of entering into controversy with the poor souls who think they are doing God's service when they are believing fables. When our young ministers hurt themselves and bring reproach upon God's cause by placing solemn, sacred truth on a level with fables, let them be advised to become converted by closely studying the Word with men of experience, who for years have understood the truth. Let them turn from romance, from the fanciful interpretations which have no foundation in God's Word. "What is the chaff to the wheat?" Jeremiah 23:28. {3MR 29.3}
In this age of error, of daydreaming and reverie, we need to learn the first principles of the doctrine of Christ. Let us strive to be able to say with the apostle, "We have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:16. The Lord calls upon us to follow high and noble principles. We must let the principles of the third angel's message stand out clear and distinct. The great pillars of our faith will hold all the weight that can be placed upon them. Young men must be educated to keep within the bounds of "It is written." Paul writes, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." That time has come. I present the word of warning: "Watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry" [2 Timothy 4:1-5].--Ms 82, 1894. {3MR 30.1}

Your quote I listed was an absolute objective statement.
With your "As I continued to study, the possibility...." type of weasel waffling, hence my



Henry, would you say that what would be safe for us to conclude is the following?

Any time you make an absolute objective time statement, we can firmly rest assured that your "continued study" will lead you to change your mind about it -- to yet another absolute objective time statement. (repeat)

kland'

We are at the end of the road.
President Trump will be broken (impeached)
President Michael Pence (will go to war with Iran...it will climax at Armageddon)
President Michael Pence will implement the National Sunday Law 2 April 2020.
(I'm still studying the event and date but the evidence...before it happens looks solid)

And Christ will Come during President Michael Pence's reign

I do not know when. A day, a year or 2300 days later?

But as my studies have continued, this is what I know today.
If you find out something that I have yet to learn, please share it with me.

If you want to be a skeptic, that is you choice.
If you want to Proclaim the 3rd Angel's Message by giving it the right sound
you must know about Michael Pence.

His Child, you are sadly self-deceived and a deceiver. Michael Pence is not part of the Third Angel's message. That message is one of obedience to God's law, and has nothing to do with any arm of flesh.

Your continued prognostications here come in violation of Mrs. White's instruction against time setting. She informed us clearly that after 1844 there was to be no definite time given in our message. Your date setting is, therefore, unScriptural. You have deceived yourself, and I expect that your dates for the NSL will pass uneventfully.

Henry, do you know what is important? It's not a matter of dates. The date that is most important is the one we will know the least about: probation's close. Be ready every day for that. You won't know on which day your Lord comes to judge you. His coming in judgment will be as a thief in the night--completely unlike His coming in glory, in which every eye will see Him and a trumpet will sound that wakes the dead.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Did you not say that about Obama.
Trump.
Pence.

Who's the next one you'll say that about?
Do you see yourself as Ron Wyatt - a pattern of error and self-deceit?

I too, believe we are sitting on the very edge of earth's time.
What should our focus be? What is the third angel's message???



The part concerning the beast and his image are simply to warn us that strong forces, papal and protestant will arise with political force to wrest us away from the true message. And yes, those forces are rising, no question!!! But the people who sit as figure heads of those forces change continually -- it's not dependent on the figure head of those forces -- the forces continue even when the figure head is replaced. And the worst enemies against truth may not even be political. Yet, even if His Child is eventually correct as to who the last president is, that will NOT save anyone. All his speculations only place the focus on individuals and really makes a mockery of prophecy, as his private interpretations fail time and again. It does not show the real third angels message nor does it offer salvation.

What will save is a deeper knowledge and experience with our Savior, understanding justification through faith in Him, receiving the gift of His righteousness, walking with Him in righteousness and obedience to His commands. Standing in full surrender and allegiance with the Lamb of God no matter if conditions are comfortable or terrible -- no matter if people are tolerant or threaten ones very life.

So many of those who accept the First and Second Angels' Messages
Accept what they can rationalize as having been fulfilled in the past.
They are going by sight rather than faith!
This is a significant problem.
Thus, they will accept the first 2 and reject the third!
When faith is needed to finish the work: Woe to them.







In a broader sense the world church has rejected laying on of hands upon women ministers. Faith in the word of God that states that Christ has made His people "kings and priests" The word is twisted to say that only men will be saved because women cannot be kings and priests!



Rejection of the Third Angel's Message rejects knowing that President Trump will be broken, President Michael Pence will be the apostate "Protestant Republican" leader of the USA that will implement the Mark of the Beast. The warning is given in plenty of time to allow the people to prepare for what is ahead, but it is rejected. The commandment of Jesus states clearly DO NOT BUY AND SELL UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE BEAST. So Satan tells the church that it is not important to know who the allies of the beast will be in the endtime who are going to bring this trouble upon us.

When knowing the duration of the Judgment Hours of the dead and living and that the final sealing time has begun, Satan would have dedicated church members not believe the message because of a misinterpretation of the testimonies that he has put into the church since 1844. And when faith is needed to move forward, seeing things out of focus blocks going forward by faith.

Limiting the meaning of the third angel's message to the Sabbath question is a deception that will kill many professed Christians.



For teachers to teach the word of God correctly, they must understand it.

...It is great to believe God's prophets, but lip service will not save anyone. God gave us Bible study and the Holy Spirit is God's interpreter of God's message to His people. Thus, to preach the First and Second Angel's message, while refusing the Third angel's message will doom the false shepherds no matter how much they profess to believe His prophets!

...God has ordained that the 3rd Angel's Message should finish the work in power. The message simply stated is: God's people must obey God's commandment to refuse to take the Mark of the Beast! The beast is known, its apostasy is revealed, the time of the message at the end of the Judgment Hour of the Living is known, and the lamblike horns on the earth beast are identified.

...There is no need for anyone to be deceived about the principle parties identified in the 3rd angel's endtime message that identifies those who oppose God's message for His people. But the rejection of truth is so prevalent in the Church that many are deceiving themselves and our leaders are leading the saints much like they did in 1888 contrary to the Word of God.

...These simple truths (along with others) should be known and taught!


...If those who claim to believe His prophets refuse to hear the truth that the prophets have declared? when the prophecy is in the process of being fulfilled, God is not at fault, Bible students that have studied and prayed and struggled to understand the warning and to get the brethren to look at the details and to join the study are not at fault, but those who have rejected the 3rd angel's message will be responsible for casting their shadow over the Word of God and they will reap what they sow.

...There is still time to study to show ourselves approved of God and to be like the Bereans. But the final minutes of our probation are fast drawing to a close and Christ will soon leave Heaven's Sanctuary.? The parable of the 10 virgins will come upon us and those who are wise will enter the joy of our Lord while the foolish will see too late too late their folly.

...Why be like those in Noah's day who refused to enter the ark? Why be like those in the wilderness who refused to look upon the brass serpent on the pole? Why not see how God has led His people with time prophecy in our past history? Why wait until the curse of the Laodiceans is fulfilled upon those who are blind? that refuse to buy eyesalve and are rejected by Christ?

Those who reject the proclamation of the 3rd Angel's message by faith before it is a reality,
cannot receive the blessing promised at the end of the 1335 Days in Daniel 12.

I have fought the fight, the battle is nearly over, and it is up to the Holy Spirit to sift the chaff from the wheat
and to seal the saints to meet our Lord Jesus Christ, Judgment will begin at the House of God!

Ended? Really?

Guess we don't need to worry any more. We are already judged so nothing we can do about it.
Eat, drink, and be merry!
Thank you, His Child, for setting us at ease.

Another example of total miscommunication, sorry

I started this thread with this fascinating quote:

I said this quote identifies that time when the judgment of the living turns to the world. The unrolling of the scroll as pictured in Revelation 5 and 6 has its parallel in Daniel 7 where the court sits and the books (the scroll) is opened.

One thought that just occurred to me recently is that the unrolling of the scroll also promises to be a time of prophetic enlightenment; that as this scroll is unrolled there will be a flood of light that flashes from the throne of God on the ancient prophecies, especially on Daniel 8 to 12 which is the little book that is open in the hand of the angel of Revelation 10.

For years I've puzzled over why Ellen White never referred to the time elements in the prophecies that she herself placed in the future. She consistently held that prophetic time ended in 1844 and I have no doubt that she was instructed by the Holy Spirit on that point.

That prohibition against time setting will always be in effect imo. But, according to Daniel 12:9 the wise will understand these prophecies at the unrolling of the scroll, the prophetic book.

That would be consistent with the inspired message in Revelation 10 that time shall be no longer. It is no longer because the wicked will not understand these periods, but the wise will understand them when the scroll is unrolled so that the wise can read it. The prophecies regarding the mark of the beast which Ellen White says we still do not fully understand will be understood then. This is the warning of Christ regarding the abomination of desolation contained in Daniel 12 that Ellen White says we need to study and understand.

What do you all think?

It should be noted that Ellen White struggled with time setters who did not understand prophetic time. As noted in other posts here, she stated that the world lumped all time prophecy together and that her view was different than that of the world. Thus, from the context of her writings, she was talking of the specific time of Christs Advent when she said that there is no prophetic time after 1844.

Revelation 10 as you noted links to the end of the 2300 years in Daniel 8 (8:14), which was long time (a day for a year). The 2300 day prophecy played out in "long time" (a day for a year). When the 2300 years ended in 1844, which aligns with Revelation 10; the long time (day for a year) reference to time ended in the book of Revelation. When the prophecies in Revelation have their final fulfillment, they will be in real time not in long time.

Consider a few statements from EGW:



When EGW wrote out the passage from Revelation 13, she included the 42 months. If she had not intended to say that the 42 months would have a final fulfillment in the endtime (after 1844 and before Christ's Advent) she would not have included the 42 months in her statement that she wrote out in longhand.



Again EGW cites the 42 months that she has repeatedly stated in other places as having been fulfilled from 538-1798 in the future context "will surely take place." There are other examples in the writings of EGW that place time prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past in a future setting. Thus, EGW is made to contradict herself when her words are constructed to say that there is no time prophecy after 1844. She does not contradict herself when her words are understood to say that there is no time prophecy giving the specific time of Christ's coming after 1844.



How did God lead us in our past history? Did God lead us with time prophecy? And what is the implication of EGW's statement if we forget how God has led us in our past history? How shall we know where we are in prophetic history if we cannot determine the length of a Judgment hour?



Since Revelation's "teachings are definite, not mystical and unintelligible, and God would have us understand it" should we conclude that it times are not "definite" that they are "mystical and unintelligible," and that God would "NOT" have us understand them? Such a conclusion about the times in Revelation, is contrary to the teachings of EGW and does not bear evidence that it is by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

The "Judgment of Adam" was not in literal time.
It was not in Long time (a day for a year).
It was in millennial time (a day is a 1000 years in God's sight).
In the DAY that Adam ate the fruit, he died (at 930 years old)
From first mention of time and judgment in Genesis, millennial time is established.
On the Day of Atonement, The priests served in the Temple during the Daylight hours.
Christ states that there are 12 daylight hours in the day.
Based on the 12 daylight hours, a judgment hour is 83-years 4 months
Judgment begins at the house of God.
The RCC claimed and claims to be the Church established by Christ
The RCC received its deadly wound in 1798: IT WAS DEAD
Revelation 3 states that there is a dead church
22 October 1844 when judgment of the dead began the RCC was dead
83 years 4 months later (22 February 1928) the dead RCC was about to be revived

Mussolini healed the deadly wound from February thru June 1929
By June 1929 the RCC was alive (prophetically speaking)
The Day of Atonement came on 14 October 1929
Thus, the Judgment Hour of the living could begin 14 October 1929
At the end of the 83 year 4 month Judgment Hour of the living (14 February 2013)
Pope Benedict XVI resigned
The one pope at a time papal beast that had been revived in 1929
became a 2 pope papal beast when the Judgment Hour of the living ended.

When Ancient Babylon fell it had 2 kings
The papacy now has 2 popes while Spiritual Babylon is poised to fall.
Babylon is fallen is fallen because of its fornications
Pope Francis recently confirmed that the RCC priests fornications
is ongoing: Priests might still be using nuns as sex slaves!
He defrocked cardinals for abusing boys and seminarians
God's call is to flee Babylon But many churches are going back to Babylon.

The 2019 Baptist convention admitted that 750 of its member churches are plagued with
accusations of ministers molesting boys
The Methodist are about to schism over gay marriage (Babylon's fornication)



IMHO Revelation 14:8 is the Judgment Hour of the dead has come. Its repetition in Revelation 18 is "the time allotted for the Hour of the Judgment of the living has ended." We are entering upon the time of the dispensing of the verdict.

As it was in the days of Noah (he went into the ark for 7 days)
The Judgment Hour of the living ended 14 February 2013
we will soon have been seven years waiting for the Lord to visit His judgment verdict.

The other angel (Revelation 18:1) is joining to add His message.

His Child,

Your ignorance of the basics in Biblical interpretation baffles me. I truly do not understand it. How can you expect the 42 months to apply, post 1844, when they have already been fulfilled? Do you truly not know their meaning?

42 months * 30 days in a month = 1260 days.

Does the conversion make it more memorable? The 1260 days were, by your terminology, "long time." They ended in 1798. They started in 538. Mrs. White explains all of this for us in plain terms.

The book of Revelation tells us what those years were:


Clearly the "forty [and] two months" is paralleled to the "thousand two hundred [and] threescore days." And how was this prophecy fulfilled? It was fulfilled in that during this time the papacy suppressed God's Word, and persecuted God's faithful. This was that period of time referenced two chapters later: "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months." (Revelation 13:5).

God "gives" Satan this opportunity to prove himself and his government--to put his best foot forward, so to speak. For 1260 years God allows this beast power to hold authority. Those years ended in 1798 when on February 10 Louis-Alexandre Berthier, a marshal under Napoleon, took the pope captive (and put him in prison where he died a year and a half later). That was the end of the time prophesied.

If you don't accept these truths from me, perhaps Ellen White's authority should lay this to rest once and for all.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Dear Sister Green,
You need not be baffled. I teach that the 1260 days were fulfilled as 1260 years from 538 to 1798.
That was the initial partial fulfillment of the prophecy that foreshadowed the final complete endtime fulfillment
that Ellen White wrote of which came from 9/11/01 to April 2, 2005.

Mystery solved.

Christian regards
Hch

Nothing of any prophetic significance happened on April 2, 2005. The great mystery is Babylon, and your teachings mysteriously align with it. See Revelation 17:5.

September 11, 2001 --> April 2, 2005 = 1,299 days NOT 1260.

Check your calendar.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The miracle of technology?
I wrote a great response to this post yesterday but it does not show up here today.
I must have failed to hit the send button.
Perhaps (Lord willing) I can make another short and to the point.


Green,
Pope John-Paul II died 2 April 2005.
His death was 42 full months after 9/11/01

EGW places the 42 months historically from 538-1798
she then states that they will have their final fulfillment in the endtime
when EGW commented on the endtime 42 months she wrote the verse out by hand
she was not saying that Rev 13 would repeat except for the 42 months
If that had been the case she would not have written that verse





Lest you doubt that she meant that the 42 months would be fulfilled after 1844 and before Christ Comes SHE WROTE IT OUT AGAIN!




In Revelation 17 the 5 fallen popes were Pius XI &XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, and John-Paul I
The one that IS was John-Paul II
and the short space pope was Benedict XVI

The death of Pope John-Paul II on 2 April 2005
Confirms the identity of Benedict XVI as the short space pope

Babylonian New Years day was 29 March on our Gregorian Calendar
The death of Pope John-Paul II on 2 April 2005 (leader of spiritual Babylon)
was a few days after Babylonian New Years Day)
from Babylonian custom, his last year had begun (29 March 2005) and would end 28 March 2006.
Benedict's ascension year was not counted in the reign of Benedict but John-Paul II
Benedict XVI's official reign by Babylonian custom began 29 March 2006
Benedict XVI reigned from 29 march 2006 thru 28 February 2013
which was one day and one month short of 7 years (a short space) for Benedict to rule his church



The 8th pope is not a reference to Francis I. He is 8 chronologically, but he is not of the 7 (Pius XI to Benedict XVI), who align with the 83 year 4 month Judgment Hour of the living.

If you try to force fit Bible prophecy into you mind set it will not work
The Bible is its own interpreter.

the 42 full months from 9/11/01 to 4/2/05 are:
October, November, December; 12 months each in 2002, 2003, 2004; January, February, and March 2005

the 1260 literal days from 9/11/01 ended 22 February 2005; the day, Pope John-Paul II, who was just beginning the dying process was released from the hospital for one day. The following day he sat for a video. He was readmitted to the hospital (24 February 2005) where he remained until he died 2 April 2005. So he was as good as dead when the 1260 days ended 22 February 2005.

Too often folks assume that they know what the Scriptures are saying without looking into all the possibilities.

Even more interesting is a study of the words used to write 42 months. The word translated as 2 in 42 is duo. In Luke 10:1 it is translated as 2 by (ana) two. or by (ana) two and two. When the 42 months are examined as 40 and (duo) 2 and 2: according to the Hebrew calendar which is the calendar use by John when he wrote Revelation...John-Paul II died 40 and 2 and 2 months to the very day from 9/11/01 to 2 April 2005. Not a day more or less.

That tidbit about duo being 2 & 2 is important in Revelation 13. I knew that the 7 popes ended at Benedict. During his reign the beast power moved from the first beast in Revelation 13 to the second beast with the DUO horns. That was during the reign of Bush II. A horn in Bible prophecy is a king (cf Daniel 8) The duo earth kings have been Bush II, Obama, and Trump. That leaves one to come. Daniel 12:1 states Michael stands for his people then comes the Time of Trouble. (When Jesus stands for He people, the time of Trouble does not begin: It is finished...He finishes it) Michael Pence is the Vice President (America's prince in waiting). Thus, I understand when President Trump is broken, Michael (the man as Cyrus was the man named by Isaiah) Pence stands for his people to implement the National Sunday Law and commence the Time of Trouble.

When Christ will come, I do not know. When He will declare "it is finished" I do not know. But the 3rd angel's message will sound and Christ will come.

His Child, when a man mingles his own thoughts with scripture the result is error. Error blinds. The Lord will enlighten the man if he humbles himself and is willing to bring all his thoughts and actions to the test of scripture. This is where the problem began - failure to bring the actions and thoughts into captivity to the will of Christ.

Those who do not do this often attempt to promote their ideas on threads that are not related to what they view as important truth and they will disrupt discussions that are unrelated to their views. But they won't see that they've done anything inappropriate because they think they have truth that has a bearing on the discussion. And although those in the discussion disagree they will still post their ideas prolifically. So Henry, I don't expect you to agree with this but although you don't see it, as a brother, my request is that you post your comments that advance your views on threads that you start. Please only make comments here that directly investigate the thread topic. This applies to all the threads in the forum started by others. We all, myself included, need to respect one another's space and help each other investigate the topic under discussion rather than use a topic to promote our private interpretations.

Charity, well said.

His Child,



I posted this earlier, and yet you seem ignorant of it still: the pope died 43 months and 9 days after 9/11--NOT 42 months.

When I said his death was of no prophetic significance, I meant exactly that. I did not mean it was not significant, only that no prophecy addressed it.

You must understand with greater breadth of mind and thinking than you presently have demonstrated if you wish to rightly divide the word of truth. Mrs. White does not indicate what you have wrested her words to say when she speaks of the "entire chapter" being fulfilled. Consider the following:



So, let's consider that "entire chapter" for a moment.



Look at the first few verses. What "beast" is this? Is it not the Papacy? If so, did it really never yet exist--for it is still future?

This chapter speaks of the time when the papacy rises--when it comes into existence. If that is still future, then what in the world is the "papacy" spoken of throughout the book "Great Controversy"? Is the "Great Controversy" also a prophecy referring to the future, and having nothing to say of the past?

I find it much more reasonable to look at the chapter as not yet fully fulfilled. When Mrs. White addresses it in the sense of it being literally fulfilled in the future, she addresses the completion of the fulfillment; she does not negate the fact that parts of it are already fulfilled, nor is it her intention to say that the entire chapter is still future, only that in the future it will have been entirely fulfilled. ALL of the chapter will take place; not just the part that has taken place so far.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I came across this quote yesterday - more evidence that the seven sealed scroll of Rev 5 to 7, the little book, and the flying roll are all about the same thing - the three angels messages - and all about to be unleashed in the latter rain.

Below Ellen White applies this fascinating symbol - Zechariah's flying roll - to the flight of the three angels messages.


Notice 1) how she equates the flight of the roll to the flight of the three angels messages and 2) her summarizing point: "Many indeed will not understand but will stumble at the words contained in the roll". That is the same warning given in Daniel 12. Only the wise will understand. To the wicked the roll remains sealed. And this is the same message contained in the scroll that is open in the right hand of the mighty angel of Revelation 10. This message crosses the ocean and encircles the globe. But those who refuse to be enlightened by the eye salve prescribed by the True Witness will not be able to read or understand it.

Many will not recognize that these prophetic revelations of the scroll/roll are central to the three angels messages. The time periods in Daniel 8 to 12 which are summarized in the latter chapter are critical in, on one hand correctly identifying the mark of the beast and on the other, in understanding the seal of God and the glory of the latter rain.

Dr. Phil Mills recently published an article on Fulcrum7, and one of his main points is that many Adventist will not recognize the glory of the latter rain.

Quote by Ellen White:

"One thing will certainly be understood from the study of Revelation- that the connection between God and His people is close and decided. {TM 114.5}

"A wonderful connection is seen between the universe of heaven and this world. The things revealed to Daniel were afterward complemented by the revelation made to John on the Isle of Patmos. These two books should be carefully studied. Twice Daniel inquired, How long shall it be to the end of time? {TM 114.6}

"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And He said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days." {TM 115.1}

"It was the Lion of the tribe of Judah who unsealed the book and gave to John the revelation of what should be in these last days. {TM 115.2}

"Daniel stood in his lot to bear his testimony which was sealed until the time of the end, when the first angel's message should be proclaimed to our world. These matters are of infinite importance in these last days; but while "many shall be purified, and made white, and tried, the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand." How true this is! Sin is the transgression of the law of God; and those who will not accept the light in regard to the law of God will not understand the proclamation of the first, second, and third angel's messages. The book of Daniel is unsealed in the revelation to John, and carries us forward to the last scenes of this earth's history. {TM 115.3}

"Will our brethren bear in mind that we are living amid the perils of the last days? Read Revelation in connection with Daniel. Teach these things." {TM 115.4}

I have posted several times on this forum about counting the "full months" on the Gregorian calendar as 42. Counting them on the Hebrew calendar as 42 plus 2 to the day and the significance of that count. And counting the 1260 days. The data is readily available for those who want to look it up and review it.

The significance of the date of Pope John-Paul's death 1290 days after GW set up an abomination that desolates was also discussed.

And the significance of the 83 years 4 month that aligned with the judgment hour of the dead and the 83 years 4 month that aligned with the Judgment hour of the living.

There is not much more that I can write about the evidence that has been provided thus far. It is up to the Holy Spirit to convince hearts.



I have begun anew to do this work in my heart and life.

You're setting us a good and noble example. I want the same spirit HC. Let's all pray from the heart for ourselves and each other. The Lord hears every sincere prayer.

Not until we come in the unity of the Holy Spirit will we ever unite to finish the Work that God ordains for us to do.
But we can have this hope. God Himself will take charge and finish the work.
(He will not leave such a necessary work to feeble erring people)

Between the two dates for which you have claimed a prophetic link, there are not 1260 days. There are not 83 years and 4 months. There are not 1290 days. By any calendar. There ARE 1299 days.

The prophecies of the Bible could never be nine days off, much less 39. If they mentioned a specific number of days, they were exact to that number of days.

And there is no 1299-day prophecy in the Bible!

Consider the 400 years in bondage and affliction that were predicted for the children of Abraham. Those began when Abraham had been in Egypt for 30 years, and his son was 5 years old. (Abraham entered Egypt at the age of 75 [Gen. 12:4], and fathered Isaac at age 100 [Gen. 21:5]. Isaac was weaned at 5 years of age [see Gen. 21:8].) His older brother, Ishmael, persecuted him beginning at that point in time, starting the prophetic clock on the 400 years for Abraham's seed to be afflicted in Egypt. And when did Abraham's descendants leave Egypt? On the "selfsame DAY" of the fulfillment of the years (see Exodus 12:41).

As the old adage goes, "figures don't lie, but liars figure." Squeezing out a "prophecy" from some plausible-looking numbers does not mean one is actually there. Especially is this true in light of Mrs. White's clear statement that after 1844, prophetic time is no more--God's people will NOT have another message based upon definite time before the coming of the Lord.


Oh? And what does the Gospel Commission tell us? Does it tell us to step aside, since we are "feeble erring people," and let God do the work? God's work is helping to perfect our characters. Our work is to share the gospel with the world. God works and man works.



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The date identified in Daniel 7 from a study of a season and time is 9/11/01
a season is 1/4 of a year. For Bible prophetic calculations a year has 360 days.
1/4 of 360 days is 90 days. In Bible prophecy a day can be a year=90 years
and a time, which is already a biblical year. 90 years and a time = 91 years.
President Reagan turned 90 years old on 2/6/01
In Reagan's 91st year: He, Bush I, and Clinton met the criterial of the text...1) alive 2) out of office

From the context of Daniel 7, the little horn pope that spoke great words did so after the Judgment was set (after 1844)
The 10 horns on the earth beast were identified by a feature in Revelation 13 "the beast called fire down from heaven"
The American President that called fire down on Japan in the sight of eyewitnesses was President Truman.
The 10 Presidents were: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton.
The pope that spoke great words and plucked up three Presidents (Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton) was John-Paul II
Reagan healed the papal wound on America's behalf by declaring John-Paul II head of state (sent US ambassador to Rome)
Bush I Recognized Pope John-Paul II as head of all the churches: "the world's Moral leader"
Clinton wondered after Pope John-Paul II "This guy is on my side!"



That is correct. Within that 1299 days 42 full months are clearly identified from Bible prophecy:
Oct, Nov, Dec 2001; 12 months each in 2002, 2003, 2004; and Jan, Feb, and Mar 2005= 42 full months.
There is some time left over between 9/11/01 thru 4/205
The Bible writers did not use the Gregorian Calendar, they used the Hebrew lunar calendar.
Revelation 13 says 42 months.
The word duo translated as 2 in Revelation 13 is translated as 2 and 2 in Luke 10:1

Note that when 40 duo is translated as 42 and 2 it aligns 9/11/01 thru 4/2/05 to the very day
There is no unexplained time in that application

Within the 1299 days that you counted note this third application
from 9/11/01 the 1260 day period ended February 22, 2005.
On February 24, 2005 Pope John Paul entered the hospital in the dying process
he never recovered or came back from the hospital in which he died.

By the Gregorian Calendar, the 42 full months fulfill the prophecy
By the Hebrew calendar, the 42 and 2 months fulfill prophecy to the very day.
And his entering the hospital in the dying process aligns with the 1260 days
between the start date 9/11/01 and the end date 2/23/05



The Bible prophecy is not off.
You are reading it to say what you think it means rather than studying it to determine what it means.
Since the Bible does not agree with you reading, you assume it is wrong.
Rather than to let the Bible explain itself, you refuse to believe that which does not agree with you.

Regarding the 83 year 4 month hour
1000 years divided by 12 is 83 years 4 months (an hour based on 1000 years)
The judgment of the dead began 22 October 1844
The RCC received its deadly wound 42 years before the Judgment Hour arrived.
So how does that impact the prophecy that states that judgment starts at the House of God?
The RCC House of God was dead when the 22 October 1844 Judgment Hour began
Like the dead RCC, Adam, Abraham, and millions of saints were dead before the 22 October 1844 Judgment Hour began
But when the 22 October 1844 Judgment Hour is compared to the dead church
The 22 October 1844 Judgment hour ended 22 February 1928 while the dead RCC was dead
Then came the brief tarrying time Hab 2:1-3 in which the RCC recovered from its deadly wound
On the Day of Atonement 14 October 1929, the RCC was ALIVE!
The living RCC remained a one pope at a time kingship until the 83 year 4 month Judgment Hour of the living ended.
Shortly after the Judgment Hour of the living ended (14 February 2013) pope Benedict resigned effective 2/28/2013
The RCC was dead during the entire Judgment Hour of the Dead
The RCC was alive during the entire Judgment Hour of the Living

The facts are the facts
But it is not evidence that some people need.
They have the evidence
It is the Holy Spirit that leads us to all truth
Pray for the Holy Spirit to rightly divide the word of truth.

When I teach the 3rd angel's message'
I teach that President Michael Pence implements the Mark of the Beast
when America forms an image to the beast.
You teach that I am in error and that my teaching is not of God.
Thus, you teach that President Michael Pence will not implement the MOB
Thus, you have judged me to be a false prophet
And your teaching is not in harmony with mine.

This is not the unity of the faith that God would have us to have



But how will that unity come when one SDA makes every effort to get the truth of the third angel's message to the world while another SDA fights tooth and nail to keep that truth from the world and fellow church members?

Interesting study 'His Child', because on Sept 11, 2001 God gave me a vision of Jesus standing in the most Holy Place pleading for the Father to hold the four winds exactly as the Testimonies and Revelation 7 says. He showed me that we are in the time of the sealing of the 144,000 and the living are being judged. But He never showed me that it was connected to time. I was shown that there is no more time connected prophecies and all of this could have been done earlier if it was His will. Just like the 7 last popes of Rev 17, they could have come before 1888 if it was God's will, if we as a church were ready. Now He is showing us His mercy still. But we are in the reign of the last succession of popes as foretold.

What is interesting though is that the sixth Papal king after they received their throne within the City of Seven Hills, the one who "is" in Rev 17:10, John Paul II, is who was reigning over the beast in 2001.

Now we have Wendell, Henry,AND JPT. WHO are we to believe? NONE - Believe God - YES Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, you heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets; for God has avenged you on her.

APL,

Have you read Joel 2 recently?



Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Here is where I have authority to share this teaching APL.

"I will shew thee the Judgement of the Harlot"

In Revelation 17 the Harlot is sealed on her forehead with the title "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" in the reign of the sixth king, the one who 'is' alive during the timeframe of that vision. John Paul II is the sixth since the Lateran Treaty, he was who was reigning when the JDDJ was ratified. This began the judgment of the living fallen churches. God had already judged the dead and on 9/11 was beginning the judgment of the living in the time of John Paul II the sixth king. There is absolutely no time prophecy involved. This is where what God showed me deviates from what is written above. Everything that is happening today relative to the fulfillment of these prophecies could have taken place before 1888 but the events that set it in motion, namely the end of judgment of the dead and the signing of the JDDJ with the Lutherans making the Harlot a MOTHER are what was first needed and could only be permitted by the grace of God who withheld the four winds at 9/11. Revelation 7 has been fulfilled and the 144,000 are being sealed since that day.

How can a Harlot be a Mother unless she has daughters that acknowledge her as MOTHER? This is why Rev 17:5 was written in all CAPS. To show that this is the main proof of the vision. The Protestant churches hated the harlot when we as Adventists first started sharing this prophetic insight. They thought we were nuts because they would "never betray Christ" and unite with the Harlot, but look at what happened, exactly as prophesied. But then we forgot as a church; now its time to remember. The Testimonies say that Rev 17 is about the destruction of the CHURCHES who join with the Harlot making her a MOTHER. This began officially in 1999 with the Lutherans signing the JDDJ, ratified days before 9/11, the sign of the beginning of the judgment of the living and the day Jesus pleaded with the Father to hold the four winds. The living are being judged right now. The chaff is being blown away. Only the remnant will remain when the eighth king, Francis the Jesuit Corpse, "the stately fair person the whole world looks up to in reverence" who is "Satan appearing as an angel of light" will lead the world to "perdition" with "lightning speed". This is a faithful witness.

Perinde ac cadaver. The Motto of the Jesuits. To be like a CORPSE, and Jesus said where the CORPSE is there the eagle will gather, and the eighth king Pope Francis just so happens to be the first Jesuit pope? And the first to SPEAK from the United States Congress to the world? That is where my authority comes from. My God told me to warn the church for over ten years that the eighth king is the last pope and they persecuted me for claiming this. Soon those who persecuted me will be frightened for their very souls or be lost and become the Judas of the SDA church.

Green Cochoa..

How about Joel 3?

3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel".

The Valley of Jehoshaphat is also called the Kidron Valley, where Gethsemane was, where the Lord Jesus sweat blood fulfilling the Red Heifer sacrifice at the very spot the Heifer was slain. This begins the three days three nights sign of Jonah and it is the "place of numbering", the Miphkad Altar, the only place outside of the Temple that any part of the temple service took place. The Altar that we are supposed to go meet with Jesus.

Hebrews 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Gee, I wonder why this verse is immediately after Joel prophesied that there would be sons and daughters prophesying? Sounds eerily like the vision that God gave me.

Perhaps the identity of the woman riding the beast should be looked at a little more closely?
In Bible prophecy, a woman can be a church.
The beast in Revelation 17 is the first beast that was identified in Revelation 13.
Is the woman (church ) that is riding the beast the same entity as the beast that she is riding?
Is the name on the forehead of the woman, her name "MYSTERY BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" ?
Or is the name on the forehead of the woman, her mother's name?

What is in the name "MYSTERY BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" ?
Babylon...her territory
Mother...her title
Mother of harlots...her authority

Is that not the mark of the beast upon the forehead of the woman?