IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD?

Posted By: The Wanderer

IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 01:38 AM

Quote
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. - God the Son, Fundamental Belief 4

IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD?

Quote
"I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."?(Psalms 2:7)


Jesus Christ holds so important a place in the scheme of redemption, it is necessary to form correct ideas of his nature, character and office. As he is the foundation of Christianity, the sentiments we form of him, will affect our whole picture viewpoint respecting the method of salvation. It cannot be expected that the superstructure will be better than the basis. If we begin with error, then, the whole fabric of our belief will be erroneous.

When Christ appeared in the world, it was a prominent inquiry among the Jews whether he was the Son of God. The inquiries whether he was the Christ, or whether he was the Son of God were of the same import. They expected that when the promised Messiah appeared, he would appear in the character of God's Son. In the Old Testament God acknowledges him to be his Son. By his prophet he said, ?Thou art my Son.? Many Jewish authors admit that the term Son in the 2d Psalm is applied to Christ.

To put the question beyond dispute the apostle Paul quotes this short passage, and applies it to Christ:

God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'?(Acts 13:33)

When Jesus claimed the title, Son of God, and the title, Christ, the Jews considered him claiming the same prerogatives. At one time they accused him of calling himself Christ. At another time they accused him of calling himself the Son of God; and they viewed the accusations of the same import.

Christ once inquired of his disciples what was the opinion of people respecting himself After they had named several opinions, which were entertained of him, he inquired of them saying,

Quote
?Whom say ye, that I am.'?' Peter, who was always ready to give an answer, said, ?Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.-'
Jesus replied, ?Blessed art thou Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee; but my Father, which is in heaven.?

This reply proved that Peter had formed right ideas of him; and gave him an appropriate name. Jesus Christ was predicted by the name, Son. When he came into the world he maintained that he was the Son of God.

When he was on trial before the council, the high Priest adjured him by the living God, that he should declare whether he was the Christ, the Son of God. When the Centurion saw the miracles at his crucifixion, he exclaimed, ?Surely this was the Son of God.? The apostles preached the same doctrine. After Saul was converted to the Christian faith, he ?straightway preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.?

Even evil spirits acknowledged the same sentiment; and gave him the same title. The relationship of Christ to the Father expressed by the term Son was acknowledged by himself; by his apostles; and by early Christians.

Soon after Christ left the world, various opinions arose respecting him. Some believed that he was wholly divine; that he assumed only the appearance of humanity. Some held that a super-angelic nature was united with his human nature. Others maintained that he was a mere man, furnished with extraordinary communications. This variety of sentiment respecting Jesus Christ early disturbed and divided the Christian Church. The same distinctions, with their various modifications, have perpetuated divisions in the Christian world.

The phrase, "Son of God," is often applied in the scriptures to Jesus Christ. He frequently claims this title. The Father often calls him his Son; his own Son; his dearly beloved Son, in both The New Testament, and The Old. I have been finding that scripture names are remarkable for their pertinence; and there is no doubt that a peculiar and appropriate sense/context is to be attached to this title:

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"For to which of the angels did He ever say: "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again: "I WILL BE TO HIM A FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE TO ME A SON"??(Heb 1:5)


Therefore, it is important to inquire in what sense Christ is the Son of God?
Posted By: APL

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 02:07 AM

Christ IS the only begotten Son of God. Begotten, not created. It is not a role He is playing, Christ is, the SON OF GOD. There relation is made clear in the scriptures. God is the Father of Christ. Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exaulted position. He was made equal with the Father. All the councils of God are open to His Son.

Hebrews 1:1-5 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (2) Has in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (3) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: (4) Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (5) For to which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
 
John 5:17-20 But Jesus answered them, My Father works till now, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (19) Then answered Jesus and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise. (20) For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
 
John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; (21) That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me. (22) And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them, as you have loved me.
 
Zechariah 6:12-13 And speak to him, saying, Thus speaks the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: (13) Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne; and he shall be a priest on his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Posted By: The Wanderer

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by APL
Christ IS the only begotten Son of God. Begotten, not created. It is not a role He is playing, Christ is, the SON OF GOD. There relation is made clear in the scriptures. God is the Father of Christ. Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exaulted position. He was made equal with the Father. All the councils of God are open to His Son.


John 5:17-20 But Jesus answered them, My Father works till now, and I work. (18) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. (19) Then answered Jesus and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for what things soever he does, these also does the Son likewise. (20) For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel.


IF its as clear as you say it is, then lets ask a couple of clarifying questions, in answer to the OP:

1/ In the text above which you supplied, (and thank you for that), it says "the Son can do nothing of Himself, but only what He sees The Father do..." so IF that is true, then did The Father also die on the cross? How could Jesus do that if He did not see The Father do it?

2/ My question isnt intended to be argumentative, but to help determine, in what sense is Jesus "The Son of God?"
Posted By: APL

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 03:51 AM

Quote: "But God suffered with His Son" {DA 693}

Originally Posted by wanderer
in what sense is Jesus "The Son of God?"
The same sense that YOU are a son or daughter. Same. God is the Father of Christ. Christ is the Son of God. Christ has been given an exalted position.

It is not hard to understand if you read the Bible and not listen to the traditions of the priests and rabbis.
Posted By: The Wanderer

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 03:57 AM

In What Sense IS Jesus The Son Of God?

Originally Posted by APL
The same sense that YOU are a son or daughter.
Does The Bible actually say it like that? And do you have an answer for the above question re John 15:19?
Posted By: APL

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 04:35 AM

Taking the Bible AS IT READS, Jesus IS the SON OF GOD. So simple a child can understand!
Posted By: APL

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 04:43 AM

The Great Controversy revolved around what?

Angels were expelled from heaven because they would not work in harmony with God. They fell from their high estate because they wanted to be exalted. They had come to exalt themselves, and they forgot that their beauty of person and of character came from the Lord Jesus. This fact the [fallen] angels would obscure, that Christ was the only begotten Son of God, and they came to consider that they were not to consult Christ. {TDG 128.2}

Today, many if not most want to obscure the fact that Christ was the only begotten Son of God. When was this? BEFORE the creation of the planet.

Do you believe in a literal creation? A literal Sabbath? The literal return of Jesus Christ? A the literal Son of God? Oh no, Christ's Sonship is not real, that is only a metaphor. SMH
Posted By: James Peterson

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/02/19 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Wanderer
Quote
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God's power and was attested as God's promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. - God the Son, Fundamental Belief 4

IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD?

Quote
"I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."?(Psalms 2:7)


Jesus Christ holds so important a place in the scheme of redemption, it is necessary to form correct ideas of his nature, character and office. As he is the foundation of Christianity, the sentiments we form of him, will affect our whole picture viewpoint respecting the method of salvation. It cannot be expected that the superstructure will be better than the basis. If we begin with error, then, the whole fabric of our belief will be erroneous.

When Christ appeared in the world, it was a prominent inquiry among the Jews whether he was the Son of God. The inquiries whether he was the Christ, or whether he was the Son of God were of the same import. They expected that when the promised Messiah appeared, he would appear in the character of God's Son. In the Old Testament God acknowledges him to be his Son. By his prophet he said, ?Thou art my Son.? Many Jewish authors admit that the term Son in the 2d Psalm is applied to Christ.

To put the question beyond dispute the apostle Paul quotes this short passage, and applies it to Christ:

God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'?(Acts 13:33)

When Jesus claimed the title, Son of God, and the title, Christ, the Jews considered him claiming the same prerogatives. At one time they accused him of calling himself Christ. At another time they accused him of calling himself the Son of God; and they viewed the accusations of the same import.

Christ once inquired of his disciples what was the opinion of people respecting himself After they had named several opinions, which were entertained of him, he inquired of them saying,

Quote
?Whom say ye, that I am.'?' Peter, who was always ready to give an answer, said, ?Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.-'
Jesus replied, ?Blessed art thou Simon Barjona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee; but my Father, which is in heaven.?

This reply proved that Peter had formed right ideas of him; and gave him an appropriate name. Jesus Christ was predicted by the name, Son. When he came into the world he maintained that he was the Son of God.

When he was on trial before the council, the high Priest adjured him by the living God, that he should declare whether he was the Christ, the Son of God. When the Centurion saw the miracles at his crucifixion, he exclaimed, ?Surely this was the Son of God.? The apostles preached the same doctrine. After Saul was converted to the Christian faith, he ?straightway preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.?

Even evil spirits acknowledged the same sentiment; and gave him the same title. The relationship of Christ to the Father expressed by the term Son was acknowledged by himself; by his apostles; and by early Christians.

Soon after Christ left the world, various opinions arose respecting him. Some believed that he was wholly divine; that he assumed only the appearance of humanity. Some held that a super-angelic nature was united with his human nature. Others maintained that he was a mere man, furnished with extraordinary communications. This variety of sentiment respecting Jesus Christ early disturbed and divided the Christian Church. The same distinctions, with their various modifications, have perpetuated divisions in the Christian world.

The phrase, "Son of God," is often applied in the scriptures to Jesus Christ. He frequently claims this title. The Father often calls him his Son; his own Son; his dearly beloved Son, in both The New Testament, and The Old. I have been finding that scripture names are remarkable for their pertinence; and there is no doubt that a peculiar and appropriate sense/context is to be attached to this title:

Quote
"For to which of the angels did He ever say: "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again: "I WILL BE TO HIM A FATHER, AND HE SHALL BE TO ME A SON"??(Heb 1:5)


Therefore, it is important to inquire in what sense Christ is the Son of God?


That question has nothing to do with salvation which is eternal life through God's grace by the faith we put in Him. However, it is an interesting proposition. First, when is "TODAY"?
Posted By: The Wanderer

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/03/19 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by APL
The Great Controversy revolved around what?

Angels were expelled from heaven because they would not work in harmony with God. They fell from their high estate because they wanted to be exalted. They had come to exalt themselves, and they forgot that their beauty of person and of character came from the Lord Jesus. This fact the [fallen] angels would obscure, that Christ was the only begotten Son of God, and they came to consider that they were not to consult Christ. {TDG 128.2}

Today, many if not most want to obscure the fact that Christ was the only begotten Son of God. When was this? BEFORE the creation of the planet.

Do you believe in a literal creation? A literal Sabbath? The literal return of Jesus Christ? A the literal Son of God? Oh no, Christ's Sonship is not real, that is only a metaphor. SMH

In other words, you are unable to answer the simple question asked above, FROM SCRIPTURE:

Quote
1/ In the text above which you supplied, (and thank you for that), it says "the Son can do nothing of Himself, but only what He sees The Father do..." so IF that is true, then did The Father also die on the cross? How could Jesus do that if He did not see The Father do it?


I am unclear as to where you find that anything I posted "really" means that I am saying Jesus wasnt really The Son of God?" Its actually the total opposite here! I am asking "IN WHAT SENSE" or context is Jesus The Son of God?

James Peterson, the question has everything to do with salvation!! Scripture tells us to be sure that when we read The Word, we need to understand the correct "sense" or context. Nehemiah is pretty clear on that point:

Quote
So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading. (Neh 8:8)


We are still left with the question: "In what sense is Jesus THE Son of God?"
Posted By: James Peterson

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/03/19 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by The Wanderer
the question has everything to do with salvation!! Scripture tells us to be sure that when we read The Word, we need to understand the correct "sense" or context. Nehemiah is pretty clear on that point:

Quote
So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading. (Neh 8:8)


We are still left with the question: "In what sense is Jesus THE Son of God?"


You're making up your own salvation. Jesus said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." John 3:14-15 And why are you quoting Jeremiah when God specifically said of Jesus Christ, "This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!" Luke 9:35 Since when was salvation accomplished by assenting to a doctrine about a trinity? Surely you know the scripture, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God ..." Eph. 2:8

Concerning the Son of God, it is written in the Psalms (quoted in Hebrews 1:5):

I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter?s vessel.


When was "TODAY"?

Posted By: The Wanderer

Re: IN WHAT SENSE IS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD? - 09/03/19 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by James Peterson
You're making up your own salvation.
Well, IF one were to read my post a little slower, and like Nehemia get the correct "sense," it would be evident that the posts have not in fact made any kind of "salvation" (whatever your version might be) statements or conclusions. A simple question has been asked, and by the looks of it, an inability to answer the question has been manifested.

IF, like the verse above states Jesus does only what He sees The Father do, then did The Father die on the cross? The verse does say that; I am not making it up. I simply asked a question about that verse. Its actually a very important question. That is, IF we want to give people the correct "sense" of the verse/es in question, and properly explain "In What Sense Is Christ The Son Of God?" How could Jesus do such a thing as die on the cross, if He didnt see the Father do it first?

HINT:
Quote
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Joh 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Perhaps, some do not like these kinds of verses because they dont fit into their "private interpretation" agendas

So we are still left with the question: "In What Sense/Context IS Jesus The Son Of God?"
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