Posted By: Matthew 10vs8
The absolute and total abuse of "day for a year" principle by professed Bible believers (strong) - 06/11/21 02:07 AM
The absolute and total abuse of "day for a year" principle by professed Bible believers (strong, meaning, this will come off as a little strong, but please bear with me)
This thread, is designed to get people, professed Bible believers, to think, and to reason from scripture (that is to submit one's mind/heart to the scripture), and not from their own a priori and conjecture. In other words, this thread is to get people, professed Bible believers, back to Jesus Christ, back to what the word of God actually says, and not to what men (mankind) think it says.
Seventh-day Adventists, in general, a long time ago, got stuck into an incorrect, that is to say unscriptural, mindset, that whenever a 'time' is mentioned in prophecy, a principle of '[symbolic/prophetic] day for [natural] year' is automatically applied in all places, irrespective of any context. This is quite foolish, on several levels.
As for instance, Seventh-day Adventists, in general, have applied the 'day for a year' principle in Daniel 7:25, 8:14,26, 9:24-27, 12:7,11,12; Revelation 2:10, 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5, and rightly (that is to say contextually) so.
Yet, it was not because Seventh-day Adventists merely decided that action by majority vote of the populace of believers, or even a carry-over as a mere hand-me-down from the earlier Adventists and Millerites, etc.
God forbid, that we treat scripture (the very word of God), even prophecy, that way. It was because the word of God itself determined that it was proper to apply that principle in those given and specific places. God's word is clear about who "interprets" the word of God, and it isn't mankind, it's God. For instance, see Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Luke 24:45; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; Daniel 2:25 (Daniel doesn't make up an interpretation, he got it from God, and simply passed it along as God gave it, Daniel 2:20-24), Daniel 2:27-30,36, etc.
So why this thread? Some might think, "We already know all that!" Oh, really? Then why is the 'day for a year' principle, being willy-nilly applied nearly everywhere in Daniel and Revelation, when the context excludes it's use in those specific places? You might say, "What do you mean?" I mean this:
Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28. for those '2,520' persons. Who told them to apply the 'day for a year' principle there?
Daniel 4:16,25,34, for those '2,520' persons. Who told them beyond what Daniel gave to Nebuchadnezzar by God (Daniel 4:24)?
Revelation 3:10, "the hour", for those persons that attempt to make this be a fortnight, 14-15 days.
Revelation 8:1, "about the space of half an hour", for those persons that attempt to make this to be roughly 7-8 days.
Revelation 9:5,6,10, "five months,", "those days", "five months", for those persons that attempt to make this to mean, 150 years (5 x 30), and that during the time of the Turks and Mahommedans (Islam), like Josiah Litch, William Miller, Uriah Smith and others like them, all whom have erred here (demonstrably so), in both time and identification of the 5-7th trumpets. The 5-7th trumpets have nothing to do with Muhammad, Islam, the Turks, Sultanies,Caliphates, or the Ottoman Empire (I will be fully demonstrating this later, from Scripture and the SoP/ToJ).
Revelation 9:15, "an hour", "and a day", "and a month", and a year", for those persons that attempt to make this mean, 391 years and 15 days in the period of the Ottoman Empire (again Islam), an then simply, arbitrarily, attach this to the end of their mistaken 150 years of Revelation 9:5,6,10, such as Josiah Litch, Uriah Smith and others, all whom have erred here (demonstrably so), in both time and identification of the 5-7th trumpets. The 5-7th trumpets have nothing to do with Muhammad, Islam, the Turks, Sultanies, Caliphates, or the Ottoman Empire (I will be fully demonstrating this later, from Scripture and the SoP/ToJ).
Revelation 17:12, "one hour", for those persons that attempt to make this be a fortnight, 14-15 days.
In none of the above places cited from scripture, is there any context given, or word from God, to apply the 'day for a year' principle in those areas, and yet the laziness (lack of actual Bible study) of most of professed Bible believers, like Seventh-day Adventists (even among 'present-truthers') in these areas is astounding. Any one who even begins to question the status quo here, is called heretic, is said to be leaving the true light, advancing false ideas without even testing what is shared, etc.
Please. Allow the time and effort. I can demonstrate (I have fullest confidence born of God) from scripture, SoP/ToJ and history itself, that those who hold to those ideas above are the ones that need to let go of things that are incorrect, and need to let go of the faulty baggage that they have been carrying for the past 170 years. They need to dump the opinion of Uriah Smith on the 5-7th trumpets, (he was wrong in quite a bit, though had certain things correct in other areas, and credit to that which is right is due, and his book was a great help to me when I first began studying Daniel and Revelaiton of scripture, and I recommend his book, though with caution, especially if it is the original one filled with Arian ideology), the erroneous theology of Josiah Litch, together with William Miller's mistakes in these specific places, and to cease from mis-reading, or misusing (accidental or purposeful) the single (should always be in the mouth of two or three witnesses) The Great Controversy 1888/1911 editions quotation, (specifically pages (1888) 334.4-334.5; (1911) 334.4-335.1) and SoP/ToJ in regards what is said about Uriah Smith's book, "Daniel and Revelation" (ie., MS 174, 1899, par. 9-12, etc). It's time to stop quoting them as gospel, time to stop making them say something they do not say, and turn back to the scripture itself, and then see what the SoP/ToJ says, for it cannot contradict scripture. Do not be angry, but instead say, "Show me from scripture (KJB)." I will, given the opportunity.
For instance, the 'day for a year' is not applied to the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:1-7. Why not? "Context", it will be said. Exactly. Then why so apply it everywhere else mentioned so freely, when no context was ever demonstrated to do so?
The Bible and the SoP/ToJ have been often misunderstood (read too quickly or casually), misused and/or abused, in other areas which are similar, such as "the Daily" of Daniel. It isn't "paganism", and this is demonstrable from the Bible and SoP/ToJ, and even pioneers in the simplest of ways, and yet many Seventh-day Adventists, simply cannot let that private 'interpretation' go (after the evidence is shown, I leave it with them to either continue in their misbelief, or to come to the fullness of the light now shining). Some think that Daniel 11:14 is about Rome, and that Daniel 11:21 continues with Antiochus Epiphanes IV Both ideas are also incorrect. Even when shown from scripture and the SoP/ToJ, some still cannot let go what they have believed all these years. Let us consider that error, no matter how hoary with age is never sanctified through time to become truth.
Pro_18:13? He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Pro_18:17? He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.
1Th 5:19? Quench not the Spirit.?
1Th 5:20? Despise not prophesyings.?
1Th 5:21? Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.?
Isa 8:20? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.?
Act_17:11? These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
The Spirit of Prophecy, Volume 4. page 496.2 - "One saying of the Saviour must not be made to destroy another."
Gospel Workers, page 228.3 - "... We must not have a sensational religion, which has no root in truth. Solid instruction must be given to the people upon the reasons of our faith. They must be educated to a far greater extent than they have been in the doctrines of the Bible, and especially in the practical lessons that Jesus gave to his disciples. The believers must be impressed with their great need of Bible knowledge. There must be pains-taking effort to fasten in the minds of all, the solid arguments of the truth; for every one will be tested, and those who are rooted and grounded in the work of God will be unmoved by the heresies that [229] will arise on all sides; but if any neglect to obtain the necessary preparation, they will be swept away by errors that have the appearance of truth. At our camp-meetings, sermons should be delivered of such a character as will prepare the hearers to give a reason of the hope that is in them with meekness and fear. I have been shown that but a small number of the people in our churches know for themselves what constitutes the third angel's message. This fact should enable us to realize the need of Bible classes. At our camp-meetings especially, there should be daily classes for Bible study. Instruction should be given on the subjects of faith and Christian experience, and there should be seasons of earnest prayer. Then the influence of our camp-meetings would not be of so transitory a character, but would leave an abiding impression. ..."
Letter 6, December 30, 1886; par. 10-11 - "... Every position of truth taken by our people will bear the criticism of the greatest minds; the highest of the world?s great men will be brought in contact with truth, and therefore every position we take should be critically examined and tested by the Scriptures. Now we seem to be unnoticed, but this will not always be. Movements are at work to bring us to the front; and if our theories of truth can be picked to pieces by historians or the world?s greatest men, it will be done.
We must individually know for ourselves what is truth and be prepared to give a reason of the hope that we have with meekness and fear, not in a proud, boasting, self-sufficiency, but with the Spirit of Christ. We are nearing the time when we shall stand individually alone to answer for our belief. Religious errors are multiplying and entwining themselves with satanic power about the people. There is scarcely a doctrine of the Bible that has not been denied and, by men of high intellectual ability, shorn of its beauty and simplicity, from the infidel to the men claiming to be watchmen upon the walls of Zion. The sincere seeker for truth who, while he believes the Bible, practices its truth, making himself a prey. The world is full of books. If we had more genuine religion and less books, we should have a different class of society. These books teach false doctrines, just as false and crooked as the Bible is true, straightforward, and infallible. These books are Satan?s agents attracted by the outward and superficial adornment of error. The youth receive as truth that which the Bible denounces as falsehood, and they love and cling to every form of deception that is certain ruin to the soul. The beauty of the Bible is not seen until we bring it into the inner life. It is kept too much in the outer court. It is searching that reveals its hidden jewels. The Bible alone is our guide to heaven, and now is the time to urge it upon the attention of old and young as coming from God. It is His voice to us. It is the sure word of prophecy, profitable in all things. We must study it for ourselves, and know what saith the Scriptures. ..."
I am fully aware of all of the 'time setting' errors that the Bible and the SoP/ToJ warn of, and this is not the purpose of this thread to overthrow, circumvent, explain away, any of it. I am in full harmony and agreement with those things.
Therefore, let us test carefully what we believe, and why we believe what we believe, by the scripture (KJB), and see what the SoP/ToJ really says in all its places on any given subject.
Are you ready to test what you believe an why? I will begin with "the Daily" of Daniel as a test run. Let's see what is truth, from what is error, by the word of God, the SoP/ToJ and the pioneers own testimony, and then we can begin to test the real point of this thread in the matter of the 'day for a year' principle, among other things (5-7th Trumpets, Daniel 11:14,21, etc).
This thread, is designed to get people, professed Bible believers, to think, and to reason from scripture (that is to submit one's mind/heart to the scripture), and not from their own a priori and conjecture. In other words, this thread is to get people, professed Bible believers, back to Jesus Christ, back to what the word of God actually says, and not to what men (mankind) think it says.
Seventh-day Adventists, in general, a long time ago, got stuck into an incorrect, that is to say unscriptural, mindset, that whenever a 'time' is mentioned in prophecy, a principle of '[symbolic/prophetic] day for [natural] year' is automatically applied in all places, irrespective of any context. This is quite foolish, on several levels.
As for instance, Seventh-day Adventists, in general, have applied the 'day for a year' principle in Daniel 7:25, 8:14,26, 9:24-27, 12:7,11,12; Revelation 2:10, 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5, and rightly (that is to say contextually) so.
Yet, it was not because Seventh-day Adventists merely decided that action by majority vote of the populace of believers, or even a carry-over as a mere hand-me-down from the earlier Adventists and Millerites, etc.
God forbid, that we treat scripture (the very word of God), even prophecy, that way. It was because the word of God itself determined that it was proper to apply that principle in those given and specific places. God's word is clear about who "interprets" the word of God, and it isn't mankind, it's God. For instance, see Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Luke 24:45; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; Daniel 2:25 (Daniel doesn't make up an interpretation, he got it from God, and simply passed it along as God gave it, Daniel 2:20-24), Daniel 2:27-30,36, etc.
So why this thread? Some might think, "We already know all that!" Oh, really? Then why is the 'day for a year' principle, being willy-nilly applied nearly everywhere in Daniel and Revelation, when the context excludes it's use in those specific places? You might say, "What do you mean?" I mean this:
Leviticus 26:18,21,24,28. for those '2,520' persons. Who told them to apply the 'day for a year' principle there?
Daniel 4:16,25,34, for those '2,520' persons. Who told them beyond what Daniel gave to Nebuchadnezzar by God (Daniel 4:24)?
Revelation 3:10, "the hour", for those persons that attempt to make this be a fortnight, 14-15 days.
Revelation 8:1, "about the space of half an hour", for those persons that attempt to make this to be roughly 7-8 days.
Revelation 9:5,6,10, "five months,", "those days", "five months", for those persons that attempt to make this to mean, 150 years (5 x 30), and that during the time of the Turks and Mahommedans (Islam), like Josiah Litch, William Miller, Uriah Smith and others like them, all whom have erred here (demonstrably so), in both time and identification of the 5-7th trumpets. The 5-7th trumpets have nothing to do with Muhammad, Islam, the Turks, Sultanies,Caliphates, or the Ottoman Empire (I will be fully demonstrating this later, from Scripture and the SoP/ToJ).
Revelation 9:15, "an hour", "and a day", "and a month", and a year", for those persons that attempt to make this mean, 391 years and 15 days in the period of the Ottoman Empire (again Islam), an then simply, arbitrarily, attach this to the end of their mistaken 150 years of Revelation 9:5,6,10, such as Josiah Litch, Uriah Smith and others, all whom have erred here (demonstrably so), in both time and identification of the 5-7th trumpets. The 5-7th trumpets have nothing to do with Muhammad, Islam, the Turks, Sultanies, Caliphates, or the Ottoman Empire (I will be fully demonstrating this later, from Scripture and the SoP/ToJ).
Revelation 17:12, "one hour", for those persons that attempt to make this be a fortnight, 14-15 days.
In none of the above places cited from scripture, is there any context given, or word from God, to apply the 'day for a year' principle in those areas, and yet the laziness (lack of actual Bible study) of most of professed Bible believers, like Seventh-day Adventists (even among 'present-truthers') in these areas is astounding. Any one who even begins to question the status quo here, is called heretic, is said to be leaving the true light, advancing false ideas without even testing what is shared, etc.
Please. Allow the time and effort. I can demonstrate (I have fullest confidence born of God) from scripture, SoP/ToJ and history itself, that those who hold to those ideas above are the ones that need to let go of things that are incorrect, and need to let go of the faulty baggage that they have been carrying for the past 170 years. They need to dump the opinion of Uriah Smith on the 5-7th trumpets, (he was wrong in quite a bit, though had certain things correct in other areas, and credit to that which is right is due, and his book was a great help to me when I first began studying Daniel and Revelaiton of scripture, and I recommend his book, though with caution, especially if it is the original one filled with Arian ideology), the erroneous theology of Josiah Litch, together with William Miller's mistakes in these specific places, and to cease from mis-reading, or misusing (accidental or purposeful) the single (should always be in the mouth of two or three witnesses) The Great Controversy 1888/1911 editions quotation, (specifically pages (1888) 334.4-334.5; (1911) 334.4-335.1) and SoP/ToJ in regards what is said about Uriah Smith's book, "Daniel and Revelation" (ie., MS 174, 1899, par. 9-12, etc). It's time to stop quoting them as gospel, time to stop making them say something they do not say, and turn back to the scripture itself, and then see what the SoP/ToJ says, for it cannot contradict scripture. Do not be angry, but instead say, "Show me from scripture (KJB)." I will, given the opportunity.
For instance, the 'day for a year' is not applied to the 1,000 years of Revelation 20:1-7. Why not? "Context", it will be said. Exactly. Then why so apply it everywhere else mentioned so freely, when no context was ever demonstrated to do so?
The Bible and the SoP/ToJ have been often misunderstood (read too quickly or casually), misused and/or abused, in other areas which are similar, such as "the Daily" of Daniel. It isn't "paganism", and this is demonstrable from the Bible and SoP/ToJ, and even pioneers in the simplest of ways, and yet many Seventh-day Adventists, simply cannot let that private 'interpretation' go (after the evidence is shown, I leave it with them to either continue in their misbelief, or to come to the fullness of the light now shining). Some think that Daniel 11:14 is about Rome, and that Daniel 11:21 continues with Antiochus Epiphanes IV Both ideas are also incorrect. Even when shown from scripture and the SoP/ToJ, some still cannot let go what they have believed all these years. Let us consider that error, no matter how hoary with age is never sanctified through time to become truth.
Pro_18:13? He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Pro_18:17? He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.
1Th 5:19? Quench not the Spirit.?
1Th 5:20? Despise not prophesyings.?
1Th 5:21? Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.?
Isa 8:20? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.?
Act_17:11? These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
The Spirit of Prophecy, Volume 4. page 496.2 - "One saying of the Saviour must not be made to destroy another."
Gospel Workers, page 228.3 - "... We must not have a sensational religion, which has no root in truth. Solid instruction must be given to the people upon the reasons of our faith. They must be educated to a far greater extent than they have been in the doctrines of the Bible, and especially in the practical lessons that Jesus gave to his disciples. The believers must be impressed with their great need of Bible knowledge. There must be pains-taking effort to fasten in the minds of all, the solid arguments of the truth; for every one will be tested, and those who are rooted and grounded in the work of God will be unmoved by the heresies that [229] will arise on all sides; but if any neglect to obtain the necessary preparation, they will be swept away by errors that have the appearance of truth. At our camp-meetings, sermons should be delivered of such a character as will prepare the hearers to give a reason of the hope that is in them with meekness and fear. I have been shown that but a small number of the people in our churches know for themselves what constitutes the third angel's message. This fact should enable us to realize the need of Bible classes. At our camp-meetings especially, there should be daily classes for Bible study. Instruction should be given on the subjects of faith and Christian experience, and there should be seasons of earnest prayer. Then the influence of our camp-meetings would not be of so transitory a character, but would leave an abiding impression. ..."
Letter 6, December 30, 1886; par. 10-11 - "... Every position of truth taken by our people will bear the criticism of the greatest minds; the highest of the world?s great men will be brought in contact with truth, and therefore every position we take should be critically examined and tested by the Scriptures. Now we seem to be unnoticed, but this will not always be. Movements are at work to bring us to the front; and if our theories of truth can be picked to pieces by historians or the world?s greatest men, it will be done.
We must individually know for ourselves what is truth and be prepared to give a reason of the hope that we have with meekness and fear, not in a proud, boasting, self-sufficiency, but with the Spirit of Christ. We are nearing the time when we shall stand individually alone to answer for our belief. Religious errors are multiplying and entwining themselves with satanic power about the people. There is scarcely a doctrine of the Bible that has not been denied and, by men of high intellectual ability, shorn of its beauty and simplicity, from the infidel to the men claiming to be watchmen upon the walls of Zion. The sincere seeker for truth who, while he believes the Bible, practices its truth, making himself a prey. The world is full of books. If we had more genuine religion and less books, we should have a different class of society. These books teach false doctrines, just as false and crooked as the Bible is true, straightforward, and infallible. These books are Satan?s agents attracted by the outward and superficial adornment of error. The youth receive as truth that which the Bible denounces as falsehood, and they love and cling to every form of deception that is certain ruin to the soul. The beauty of the Bible is not seen until we bring it into the inner life. It is kept too much in the outer court. It is searching that reveals its hidden jewels. The Bible alone is our guide to heaven, and now is the time to urge it upon the attention of old and young as coming from God. It is His voice to us. It is the sure word of prophecy, profitable in all things. We must study it for ourselves, and know what saith the Scriptures. ..."
I am fully aware of all of the 'time setting' errors that the Bible and the SoP/ToJ warn of, and this is not the purpose of this thread to overthrow, circumvent, explain away, any of it. I am in full harmony and agreement with those things.
Therefore, let us test carefully what we believe, and why we believe what we believe, by the scripture (KJB), and see what the SoP/ToJ really says in all its places on any given subject.
Are you ready to test what you believe an why? I will begin with "the Daily" of Daniel as a test run. Let's see what is truth, from what is error, by the word of God, the SoP/ToJ and the pioneers own testimony, and then we can begin to test the real point of this thread in the matter of the 'day for a year' principle, among other things (5-7th Trumpets, Daniel 11:14,21, etc).