Advice to new believers

Imagen the situation that you are witnessing to a person and that person comes to Jesus and confesses belief in Him. The person then turns to you with a question that worries them. In their job, they work with daily care for a muslim. This includes helping the guy pray and the only safe way to do that involves bowing with him. So this person is worried. What will God think about me bowing to Allah in my daily job caring for this devote muslim.

What would YOU advice this new believer to do?

/Thomas

Does the silence mean that none of you have anything to say to such a situation as this?

My answer would be as a new believer myself. In your scenario it appears that the new believer is a caregiver and the muslim is a patient. If that be the case, my inclination would be to help the muslim with his prayers. I may be wrong, but don't chaplains help believers of all denominations and religious affililations? Why should a *regular* Christian be any different??

Besides, people bow to many things every day...doesn't mean they are actually *praying* to the things. And I don't think praying necessarily equates to worship. But then, neither does worship necessarily equate to praying

But I'm wrong lots of times....this may be another..

2 Kings 5:17 & 18

That was the same verse I was going to give also that Gregory gave. The Lord knows the heart of this caregiver also.

Here is what it says:

The question is indeed cut and paste from 2 Kings 5:17-18. However, the question was NOT "where can you find the bible speaking about this". The question was "What would YOU advice this new believer to do?". I assume that it will not come as a suprise to the posters here that what the bible advices us to do and what we acctually would do, if daring to be honest with outselves, is far from always the same thing.

I appreciate your answere charis. Now lets see if Gregory, Avalee and Daryl will follow your lead. I know it is hard for long-time SDAs to leave theory and move in to practical daily living examples but that doesnt mean that we shouldnt at least try to do so.

/Thomas

I think the Bible should be our guide in our daily living, therefore, finding and sharing something from the Bible in response to the question is a very appropriate response.

Daily living is our codeword here Daryl. So, do you have an example of when you have been guided by 2 Kings 5:17 & 18 in YOUR daily life?

Well, if I were ever in that situation, I would have 2 Kings 5:17-18 to go by.

Hello Thomas,


Because you are pressing this inquiry so hard in wishing to know what others would do in a situation you have brought to the forum, it would be fair for you to provide your own solution or explanation before pre-judging the anticipated actions of others.

If you have an inspired answer or explanation, please provide it. What would you advise the new believer? What would you do yourself?
Do you follow the Bible's advice? Please tell of your victories.




We are not to follow the lead of any man or woman. Only as Paul said, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ" 1 Corinthians 11:1.

If we try to bring theory into practical living we will always fail. Only Christ living in us can overcome sin. When we 'at least try', we are doomed to failure. When we are changed, we will live the Bible code naturally, for it will be our new nature. We can be a new creation in Christ. Jesus said 'Ye must be born again.' All else is works of the flesh. I know of a long-time SDA who left off the third meal for over forty years. Only Christ living in us can overcome appetite.

Gordon

Of course, if there is a something in the Bible that can positively and helpfully address a certain problem/situation, well....use it, certainly.


This is a bit
but I'd like to share it anyway...


Here is a situation that happened last Friday evening. A friend of mine in his 40's experienced an acute asthma attack. He was pagan. His wish was to beseech the goddess for help....not God. Some there who were pagan did so for him. Some Christians there besought God's help for him. My friend died...neither God nor the goddess saved him. I do not know for sure, but I do believe he got more comfort out of hearing his friends calling on the goddess in whom he believed than in God, in Whom he did not.

I was not there in person. I do not know if I could've called upon the goddess for him. I DO know that I would have lit the appropriate candles and other things that would have comforted my friend. I think my prayer would have been to God requesting His gracious mercy to a good person.

charis,

What you shared reminded me of the story in the Bible of the prophet of God, Elijah, and the prophets of Baal.

In this case, the prophets of Baal didn't receive any response, whereas God responded immediately to His prophet, Elijah.

Pressing, it seems, is the best way to get an answere beyond the party line. Sometimes Id think that a honest search for Truth includes a self assesment rather than just a biblestudy. As can maybe be seen here, it may not be quite that straightforward. But I agree with you, I ought to give my reply along with the others and maybe now is a good time to do so. I dont claim that my answer or explanation be inspired, merely what I think I would do in such a situation.
I would ask about the situation and likely not know for sure what to advice. I might ask what this persons consioussness said about it, and Id advice the person to follow it (based on "whatever not done in faith...". Are you purposefully missconstructing my point here or did it just happen by mistake? Let me try again. 'Now lets see if Gregory, Avalee and Daryl will grace this thread with comments of a more personal character. If we try to linger on theory we will always turn into an image of everything that was wrong with the pharisee party of Jesus day.
It is true that only Christ living in us can overcome sin. But that is a truth that for the purposes of replying to my post works as merely a red herring. The point I apparently failed to make is that adventists in general (at least the ones Ive meet, in RL and especially online) are much more prone to talk about theory or theology, but try and ask for an example from practical living and recieve poor or stumbling answeres before a hasty retreat to the familiar grounds of theory or theology is made. In fact, a person who through Christ is living and overcomming sin ought to have much to tell about practical life and his/her experiences of it. Why does this apply so sparingly among SDA?

And the guy who left of a third meal?

This is what I would do Thomas if I were you. Tell your friend that helping others is great, and a noble deed to say the least, and that when it comes to actually helping this person pray does not mean he has to pray with him, after all prayer is an individual thing.
If he has to help this man to go and sit on the mat, or something fine no big deal. If he has to actually pray to Alah, then no I would suggest not doing that.
It seems that the caregiver's duties involve taking care for the person, having to pray to a strange god is not in the job description.
Easy as pie.
God Bless,
Will

Thomas,
I also just noticed in your post that you mentioned that:

Sounds a bit bit nasty actually. You are implying that long-time sda's live in a theoretical environment upon which their faith is based, that's exactly what its saying.
Where's that all coming from?
God Bless,
Will

That is comming from asking This question, online at this forum and also at sabbath school (which I led so it was the topic for that day) and observing the responses. Do you care to prove me wrong?

I would tell the person to go and not stress about it.... that they can have peace of mind knowing that God understands.....

Bowing or kneeling with the person is one thing, but actually praying to a false god, if even on behalf of this person, is an entirely different matter.

so then as long as that was not done, no issue?

Seeing there is a Bible example covering that type of situation, it seems OK to me.

Bowing and/or kneeling IS an act of worship in some pagan communities. I suppose it depends on if one is aware of the intricacies of said *worship* as to whether the Biblical advice is applicable? If one does not KNOW it is considered worship, maybe it is okay?

Personally, I wouldn't do it, as for me, it would be wrong, however, I think it is a matter of personal conviction.

Act of worship: What is it?

I will suggest that God looks at the intent of the heart.

Let me illustrate: In recent times I have been reading books on Hinduism. Hinduism does not have the concern for intent that mose of us have. Hinduism is more concerned about actions. Therefore, an unbelieving person may perform a act that the Hindu sees as an act of worship.

Case in point: When I eat vegetarian food in an Indian restaurant, run by a Hindu, I probably will participate, without intending to do so, in an act of Hindu worship.

Does that stop me from eating good vegetarian food in such a restaurant? No. Should it? You decide.

However, I believe that the sensitive person will consider the effect on other people.

So...God will consider acts of worship within the context of each person and the situation he/she is in? What are considered ADVENTIST acts of worship (as opposed to other denominational acts of worship)? Or is that also purely personal?

Sorry...I'm fishing for something here, but I'm not sure what it is...

As long as the person isn't really worshipping a false god himself, then I think you are correct.

God knows the heart. That is why He is the perfect Judge.

Re: "What are considered ADVENTIST acts of worship . . ."

I would be hard pressed to mention any act of worship that is solely SDA. Just about everything that we do is also done by other groups--even foot washing is done by several groups, although there may be some minor differences.

NOTE: There is a once a year foot washing service that is held by the Roman Catholic church. It differe from what we do, but is a foot washing service.

What I would do. I would see nothing wrong if I had to bow in order to help the person to bow, as long as I had made clear to the person that I was doing him a favor, and not worshiping his god, for I worship a different God (whom I would try to share with him if there is an opportunity to do so).

Hello Thomas,


No I did not intentionally misconstrue your statement. I am sorry if it appeared thus. Those persons listed had all given responses from the Bible which seemed appropriate (on a Christian forum) and of the highest authority. Our Savoiur responded to many questions in like fashion. I now see that you were looking for something else, so I misread your meaning.


I am unsure why we would want to try and inquire of others how their actions would deviate from the Bible instruction. It is true many lack faith or knowledge to follow God's Word. But is it our business to investigate and highlight their lack of faith? (I think not - your thoughts may differ). Such was the work of the Roman Inquisition over centuries and was the method used by the scribes & pharisees to accuse Christ - they tried to trap Him with their words to find His deviation from Scripture.



This may be very true Thomas, but examining others for their faults will not bring the solution. Lack of faith is the problem of sin. For this reason I asked if 'you follow the Bible's advice and to tell of your victories.' This could bring some light and encouragement as you have indicated:

You are correct Thomas. Please tell of your victories, it would be welcome advice for new believers,

Gordon

Your question establishes a rather theoretical conversion. It establishes that the new believer has confessed “belief” in Christ, and now he is worried about what God thinks about it. That is a fairly normal response of one who got to know "about" someone who he has to “worry” about.

I would tell my friend that he needs to discover his Savior personally and receive "His Rest" personally. Then he will hear the voice of the Lord bid him what He will. Moreover, I can assure you that when my friend has discovered the Joy of the Lord’s Salvation, he will not be able to hide it from his Muslim friend, and will be bubbling over with the testimony of his God.

Rosangela affirmed what I also said.

Sister White had these words relating to prayer position and intent:

"I have received letters questioning me in regard to the proper attitude to be taken by a person offering prayer to the Sovereign of the universe. Where have our brethren obtained the idea that they should stand upon their feet when praying to God? One who has been educated for about five years in Battle Creek was asked to lead in prayer before Sister White should speak to the people. But as I beheld him standing upright upon his feet while his lips were about to open in prayer to God, my soul was stirred within me to give him an open rebuke. Calling him by name, I said, "Get down upon your knees." This is the proper position always.
[Luke 22:41; Acts 9:40; 7:59, 60; 20:36; 21:5; Ezra 9:5, 6; Ps 95:6; Eph. 3:14, quoted.] And this whole chapter will, if the heart is receptive, be as precious a lesson as we can learn.

To bow down when in prayer to God is the proper attitude to occupy. This act of worship was required of the three Hebrew captives in Babylon. At the dedication of the golden image, representing the king of Babylon, and which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up, a herald cried aloud, "To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages, that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: and whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up" [Dan. 3:4-7].

This act of bowing the knees to the great image was understood to be an act of worship. But such an act was homage to be rendered to God alone--the Sovereign of the world, the Ruler of the universe; and these three Hebrews refused to give such honor to any idol even though composed of pure gold. In doing so, they would, to all intents and purposes, be bowing to the king of Babylon. Refusing to do as the king had commanded, they suffered the penalty, and were cast into the burning fiery furnace. But Christ came in person and walked with them through the fire, and they received no harm." 21 Manuscript Release 59.4

Gordon