Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...?

Shades of Gray...or clear as a Night and Day...?


People sometimes like to refer to things as being in "the gray area". When we hear this it is more often than not something that has to do with the scriptures take on morals.

Now when someone says that something is in the gray area they mean that they are not sure whether it is right or wrong, its a 'shade of gray' to them. When we are not sure whether something is right or wrong there is often the tendency to go ahead and do it anyway and deal with the consequences later. When something is considered to be in the gray area it usually is because the person isnt sure on the issue or they want to do it and then convice themselves and maybe others, that it is OK.

Now when we say that something is in a 'gray area' it can mean that although we are probably going to go ahead and do it anyway we know that it is probably not the right thing to do. It used to be that it was cut and dried, either right or wrong, but more and more often people are being told and taught that nothing is really 'right or wrong' its only a veiwpoint that they can change their mind on.

Now the problem is that certain things are set by God, and if we go against them we suffer. It's just like if we try to jump off a cliff, the law of gravity takes us down to a very painful result, or if we consistently break the laws of health there will come a day of reckoning.

Now the worst part is that we seem to take more risk in matters having to do with our eternal destiny that a person in their right mind will do with things having to do with temporal things.

Is the Christian life composed of things that are right, things that are wrong, or is it of things that are in a gray area with no way to discern what God desires for us?

I think there are three categories: right, wrong, irrelevant. The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item. And things are not necessarily categorized the same way for each person.

Or cultures, as there use to be a time not to long ago that Anglo churches would not allow using guitars as a musical instrument, while in the Spanish churches it was virtually a necessity if there was no organ or piano or someone to play it....

Why would a wise God leave our lives up to "finding the trick?"

That could be one of many instances where men have categorized things differently from how God does.

The shades of gray make life interesting. Is it a sin to buy and eat kosher meat sold in pagan markets that have been dedicated to heathen gods?

Define a 'pagan market' as I havent seen one in my neighborhood....


1 Corinthians 10:28
But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

What does the heathen god do to the meat that would affect it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, why does God want me to figure out "the trick?"



Let's look at the "jumping off a cliff" statement. While that may seem true on the surface, deeper thought will teach you that MAY not be true anymore. Yeah, about 200+ years ago, that was true. But today, I could jump off a cliff with a parachute, or a bungee cord, or dive into the water even, and not have a very painful result, infact, it might be fun, and I might do it again, just for the fun of it.

If life really was all black and white, there would be no need for this site, nor many church's, nor even to have a church. We would all know what to do, exactly, it would be black and white. Many SDA's think their line of thinking and relationship with God is black and white. But CLEARLY that is not the case, this church is way too fractured and broken for that to be true.

You can have a black and white world if you like (it's your choice and your reality), but God gave ME so many wonderful colors in the world, and I'll be glad to have ALL of them in my life, even gray.

Who said God wants YOU to figure it out? Perhaps He already knows the trick, and is just waiting for someone to listen to Him.


Perhaps you were working with faulty standards. Nobody ever got hurt from jumping off a cliff; it was the sudden stop at the end that hurt. So what seems to you to have been a change in the truth of the statement is really a realization of the original error.


Believing that everything is either black or white is not difficult. The difficulty lies in telling which is which. So the conclusion that "we would all know what to do" is unwarranted.

However, trying to categorize everything into either black or white is foolish. The size of the "irrelevant" group is significant.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,, you said that was the "trick". Here's your words "I think there are three categories: right, wrong, irrelevant. The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item. And things are not necessarily categorized the same way for each person."

You implied (copied above for reference) that WE need to figure out how God categorizes each item. So then you changed your thought pattern, by asking "who said I should figure it out (once again, copied from above for reference) "Who said God wants YOU to figure it out? You JUST got done telling me I have to figure out which is which!!!!!!!!!! <"Perhaps He already knows the trick, and is just waiting for someone to listen to Him." >

And it's hard to believe that you would even consider that God might be trying to figure anything out (He is after all, omni-everything). Does God really play tricks on us? IF so, then I'd like nothing to do with Him. You must be talking to some other God, because the one I love would NEVER trick anyone, not even Satan. There's no trickery (except in this chruch).

And if you want to play word games, you are wrong about nobody getting hurt from jumping off a cliff. While it's true that it's the stopping and not the falling, people have died from cardiac events DURING the fall. So, be careful with such strong words, they are powerful things, and can do as much harm as good.

I don't accuse your standards of being faulty. But here(or there as it may be) you sit (yeah it's a guess, you probably arent' standing) and accuse my standards of being sub-standard? Well, don't worry, you'll get your time in front of the judge as well. I'll just not be the one doing the judging.

And if you have a hard time telling black from white, you should ask God for some glasses. He's shown us the difference, you seem to be the only one having a hard time with colors, I learned that one in kindergarten, and sabbath school.

If the size matters, that's gotta be a "you" thing as well. God does NOT have a preset number of people to save. He's not counting out just enough room for all the "good" people in heaven. There's PLENTY of room in heaven, and if not, God can make more room. I don't think we need to push and fight in line. With your line of reasoning, size does matter, sorry to hear that! Usually it's people with "small" things that have a problem with size.

I know that God accepts all sizes. All colors. All faith's (even those with NO faith). ALL those that would only accept what He has provided for us. It's got nothing to do with anything earthly. I don't NEED to seek out the rules. I'm here, on a mission from God, to help you see that it's not the "rules" that matter. It's how we actually treat God. As you have done this, the least, unto my brother; you have done this unto me. This applies to "rules" as much as it does in how we treat other people.

IF we know God, we'll know what He want's us to do. If we only know the dogma of this church, we will only know what the people that run it want us to know. That is not what God wants from us, is it? No, obviously it's not.

Ask God to show you the way.

The trick is to determine how God categorizes each item.

Problem is, you got caught up with the "trick" (as Darius did) and missed God. What you need to do is learn God's categorization for you. Will you let Him tell you?


Uhhh, there's been a comprehension malfunction.


No, you are the one playing word games. You really think I meant "trick" in the way you describe? This reminds me of your complete mangling of Christ's words in the To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? thread (click here).

And in that sense, your posts have taken a definite Darian flavor as of late. By beholding you are changed.


Cardiac arrest for leaving the cliff area? For going really fast? No, those can be done safely and without fear leading to cardiac arrest.

However, cardiac arrest can occur for fear of...... the sudden stop. Take that away, and there's no problem. The trip is probably quite enjoyable.


This is the kind of discussion and debate you learned from the one you love?


How do you know this?


Could how we treat God include being loyal to Him and His laws? How about doing things He likes because we are His friends?


He has, through His Word.

Which reminds me. I'm still waiting for your interpretation of "Thy Word is truth" in the To whom or what did Jesus "pay the price" for our redemption? thread (click here) and your response to our discussion of sources of truth in the Comparing Christ's Character to Our Character thread (click here ).

You say you love God, but when you truly love, the love you have sets 'rules' for you that you want to follow. You dont cheat on your beloved, you dont lie to your beloved, you dont steal from your beloved, you dont forget the special day you have to spend time together, or spend it with someone else, you let go of all the former 'flings and attractions' that you use to love without even thinking twice. All because you have true love for your beloved...

The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:34-40

Asygo, you are confusing yourself. That's quite a trick.

We got to love the ditches, or perhaps the road itself is slipery as if iced with superchilled rain. Some sit in one ditch and others in the other and then the two sides throws mud bombs on eachother. What do we think we are doing? A dramatisation of the Great War battle at Somme?

Yes, that's the passage I had in mind (verses 23 thru 33). Although, I was thinking of a different verse: "Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake."

So, is it a sin to buy and eat it? Or, is it a sin to offend a weaker brother? What is gray about this situation?

Again, like fun2believe, I suspect there is plenty of room for gray and all the other colors in the spectrum. Not everything in life is easily classified as black or white, right or wrong, good or bad, righteous or sinful. A class in situational ethics makes it clear that circumstance may permit something not acceptable under different circumstances. Which opens a can of worms.

I guess I am the kind that in "situational ethics" I choose from what I call my 'core beliefs' that guide my choices, as in South Florida we were living in corruption and the temptation of 'easy money', not taking a class. It has happened many times where everything was on the line as I grew up in the fast paced life you could take right out of "Miami Vice". Facing your own mortality has a way of bringing things into focus very quickly. One could live on the edge, as some of my friends did, they could make a cool bundle just for making a quick dropoff at the docks, no questions asked, or easily become involved in many other illegal endouvours just by being with certain people, or a drive on South Beach could quickly turn into a life or death choice between letting someone cut you off or take your parking spot or confronting them and guns being used. When your life might depend on what you choose a few hours, minutes, or seconds before, things become very black and white, with very little gray........

Our outlook was more the 'devil take the hindmost', as the temptation of 'easy money', or other issues became 'stumbling blocks'for many orf my friends and I am talking about fellow Adventist not just the 'kids on the block'.....

Wow! I guess I wasn't thinking of drug trafficking. I see nothing "gray" about the illegal drug business and use. For me, I also see nothing "gray" about other "drugs" - alcohol, tobacco, coffee, etc.

So now you see why, the hair on the back of my neck starts tingling when someone says, 'oh thats a gray area' because thats what we use to hear or say, right before we did the deed we knew was wrong but wanted to do anyway or the payoff was too tempting.....

Of course I have to visit some in jail now, so prison ministry has a very personal meaning to me....

Good point. But would you agree that just because I am clear on what is right and wrong, black and white, that it doesn't mean there is no room for gray areas?

Gray areas are what people use to justify what they already want to do. Now if you are talking about not doing things that might indirectly or inadvertantly harm or hurt your brother/sister, you avoid those out of love for them, your love gives you clarity in these matters but they are not a commandment as Pauls says....

2 Corinthians 8:8
I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

Yes. But can you think of any gray areas? What would you consider a gray area? That is, something that circumstances allow which wouldn't be right otherwise.

When we were small and away from home, I dont remember if my father was preaching in the small Adventist church in town or not, but after church, my mother told us that we were eating at a restuarant on Sabbath as a necessity and we must always remember that. It wasnt until later that it dawn on me that no one from the church had asked us to come over for Sabbath lunch and we had nothing at the hotel, so thus we paid for food and ate out. It may have been because no one thought to ask, or it may have been because no one wanted to welcome those of another race (hispanic) from most of the members in the church. But one thing was clear, we were blameless before God as it never occurred to my parents that no one would invite us to break bread at a Adventist church, maybe they were a bit naive, but it had never happen before.

Did we sin, no, were others guilty of prejudice, could be. Was it a gray area for their part, could be, but it wasnt for my mother, she knew we had to eat. But we never said a word of rebuke to the church or its members or even mentioned it when we got back to our own church, as they may have been guiltless, thinking someone had already invited us. We let it go as it was not clear that they meant to do wrong. Sometimes people make mistakes without meaning to, or say or do things to another that are meant well but come out wrong, or you cant be clear on what there purpose was, that is what I consider a gray area.

For these 'gray areas' we must be merciful as God is merciful with us, extend grace where grace is needed, forgive where we would want forgiveness, and always love first and foremost as Christ has loved us....

Yes, that's the kind of thing I would consider a gray area. Circumstances allow us to do things that would otherwise be a sin. I'm sure your parents would have opted to fast, but when children are involved it is better to buy food than to fast.

I put the Lord to the test on a certain Sabbath day a few years ago. I preached a message at one church and this man implored me to preach it at another church several miles away. My gas tank was on empty, and I considered buying fuel, but decided to let God work it out. I could have easily justified buying the fuel.

Sure enough, the car went further than it should have. In fact, the gauge stayed in the same spot. I knew the car very well, and knew it was a miracle. As it turns out, when I told the story at the church, it was what this one family needed to hear.

They were struggling with whether or not eating out on the Sabbath, when it wasn't necessary, was right or wrong. They decided it was wrong based on my sermon and testimony. The Lord used my situation to bless that family.

All truth is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, so there is no gray areas as Peter found out, God lights the way and shows us his will and purpose......


Peter's Vision
9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them."

21Peter went down and said to the men, "I'm the one you're looking for. Why have you come?"

22The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to have you come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."23Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

Peter at Cornelius' House
The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. 24The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."
27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection......

Acts 10:9-29