Do God's Commands Represent His Will?

God didn't command divorce or polygamy. He permitted it.

Ex 21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Le 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

De 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Commands, right?

Mt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Not His will, right?

God will never command anything contrary to His will. Otherwise He would be commanding disobedience.

Rosangela: "God didn't command divorce or polygamy. He permitted it."

Did God give commands on how to manage divorce? Yep. And that is the point. God says, if you are going to divorce, which I hate and never wanted and is not my will, then you have to do it like this... God says, if you are going to fight and not follow my methods, then you have to do it like this... This is god PERMISSIVE will.

You don't recognize it as God's wrath, but in the quote above, that is God's wrath.

Of course God's wrath is manifested every time sin is punished, however this is not what we are discussing. The passage I quoted says that God annexed penalties to the law given to Moses, and it states the reason why this was done - punishment was to be inflicted on the transgressor, that others should be restrained by fear. God meets people where they are, and that nation of slaves only understood the language of fear.

There is nothing commanded in the Law of Moses that violates God's Law or God's will - including capital punishment. Commanding capital punishment is not commanding sin.

Also, commanding the Hebrews to spy did not violate any of the precepts or principles of God's Law. He did not command them to sin.

Yes, and this because the people would not and did not trust God. This is not God's ideal will.

Jesus did not command sin when He commanded the Hebrews to spy. He does not command people to do things that violate His will or way.

An eye for an eye wasn't the will of God, and He didn't command it; He permitted it and made provision to avoid excesses.

M: Jesus has never commanded anyone to do anything that violated His will or law. That's the point.

A: God gave laws for divorce, yet divorce was never His will. That is the point.

He commanded the people to spy out the land, which was not His will.

Shall man set up his will against the will of God? Shall we be disobedient to the commands of so mighty a Ruler? Shall we contend with the Most High, who is the source of all power, and from whose heart flows infinite love and blessing to the creatures of His care? {LS 230.3}

We do not know what great interests may be at stake in the proving of God. There is no safety except in strict obedience to the word of God. All His promises are made upon condition of faith and obedience, and a failure to comply with His commands cuts off the fulfillment to us of the rich provisions of the Scriptures. We should not follow impulse, nor rely on the judgment of men; we should look to the revealed will of God and walk according to His definite commandment, no matter what circumstances may surround us. God will take care of the results; by faithfulness to His word we may in time of trial prove before men and angels that the Lord can trust us in difficult places to carry out His will, honor His name, and bless His people. {PP 621.5}

Those who have genuine love for God will manifest an earnest desire to know His will and to do it. Says the apostle John, whose epistles treat so fully upon love, "This is the love of God, that we keep his commandments" (1 John 5:3).

In order to keep God's commandments, we must have an intelligent knowledge of the Scriptures. We can not obey God until we know what His commands are. It was that we might understand His will that God gave us the Bible. By a study of its teachings, we learn to deny self and to conform our lives to its requirements.

It is clear that God's commands on divorce, polygamy, etc. do not represent His will. They accommodate the hardness of the hearts of people, like Jesus said.

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ,
1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Col 4:12 that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification

1 Peter 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

M: Where in the Bible did Jesus command divorce? He commanded capital punishment multiple times (a point you have not confessed).

A: He commanded the people to spy out the land, which was not His will.

God sent them into the land for a special purpose, but the spies brought back an evil report, full of unbelief and complaint. {RH, October 3, 1893 par. 6}

Here it was proposed by the people that spies be sent up to survey the country. The matter was presented before the Lord by Moses, and permission was granted, with the direction that one of the rulers of each tribe should be selected for this purpose. {PP 387.1}

God does not "will" thousands to be lost. He didn't 'will" for the Canaanites to fall deeper and deeper into gross iniquity. He sent them Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to testify of Him, He allowed them to know of His deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. They had 400 some years to repent and turn from their sins.

But when their cup of iniquity was full, and their thoughts were to do evil continually, it was God's will to destroy them, not because He has the mentality of a "destroyer" but because it is His Will to deliver people from this present evil world.

Here are some more good statements.



Obviously, it is God's will that we obey His commands. The contrapositive must also be true, to wit, God's commands show us His will.

Given your distinction between murder and killing, if God commands people to kill those who have not murdered, does that mean He commands people to murder and therefore it is His will that people murder?

What should you do if God commands you to do something that is against His will?

You have misrepresented my position and the Biblical distinction.

Murder was not the only offense to incur capital punishment. Other offenses, as you may recall, that required capital punishment included: willful Sabbath-breaking, rebellion against parental authority, rape, adultery, and failing to restrain one's dangerous animal to the point where it killed someone (this list is not intended to be exhaustive, merely descriptive).

In the end, any sin, however small, requires capital punishment of the offender. The only way for each of us to obtain mercy and pardon, is to accept Jesus' substitutionary payment of our penalty in our place.

M: Where in the Bible did Jesus command divorce? He commanded capital punishment multiple times (a point you have not confessed).

A: He commanded the people to spy out the land, which was not His will.

God sent them into the land for a special purpose, but the spies brought back an evil report, full of unbelief and complaint. {RH, October 3, 1893 par. 6}

Here it was proposed by the people that spies be sent up to survey the country. The matter was presented before the Lord by Moses, and permission was granted, with the direction that one of the rulers of each tribe should be selected for this purpose. {PP 387.1}

MM - you questions are not on topic. Does God give commands in situations which are not His will? YES. Who proposed to send in spies? God? Nope.

God never commands against His will.

Kland, you refuse to confess the Bible distinguishes between killing and murder. Jesus commanded capital punishment in the Law of Moses. You refuse to confess it.

Exodus
19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, [that ye] go [not] up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.
22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus
20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood [shall be] upon him.
20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it [is] wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Numbers
15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Deuteronomy
13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son [is] stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; [he is] a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged [is] accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.

Which one will be more dead than the other as a result of the act?

Jesus was quite radical. According to His interpretation was hatred killing or murder?

What is the punishment?

Christians commit a terrible mistake in calling this law severe and arbitrary, and then contrasting it with the gospel and mission of Christ in his ministry on earth, as though he were in opposition to the just precepts which they call the law of Moses. {RH, May 6, 1875 par. 12}

M: Where in the Bible did Jesus command divorce? He commanded capital punishment multiple times (a point you have not confessed).

A: He commanded the people to spy out the land, which was not His will.

God sent them into the land for a special purpose, but the spies brought back an evil report, full of unbelief and complaint. {RH, October 3, 1893 par. 6}

Here it was proposed by the people that spies be sent up to survey the country. The matter was presented before the Lord by Moses, and permission was granted, with the direction that one of the rulers of each tribe should be selected for this purpose. {PP 387.1}

MM - you questions are not on topic. Does God give commands in situations which are not His will? YES. Who proposed to send in spies? God? Nope.

God commanded that when a murderer was killed, the killing must be done without premeditation, hatred, hunting, or lying in wait.

Kland, capital punishment cases are clearly outlined in the Law of Moses. Killing murderers is only one such case.

1. Where in the Bible did Jesus command divorce?
2. You refuse to confess Jesus commanded capital punishment.
3. Where in inspiration does it say it wasn't God's will to send out spies?

APL, did Jesus repeal the Law of Moses when He refused to command the adulteress stoned to death? I believe He was complying with the laws of the land.

The following inspired insight speaks to the point:

Now that's a funny statement!!!!

How do you kill someone, intentionally, without premeditation?

Quite the contortionist you are.

35:19 The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.
35:20 But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;
35:21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote [him] shall surely be put to death; [for] he [is] a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.
35:22 But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait,
35:23 Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing [him] not, and cast [it] upon him, that he die, and [was] not his enemy, neither sought his harm:
35:24 Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:
35:25 And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.

You would have done this in obedience to God's commands. I take it you have not blah, blah, blah

35:24 Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:
35:25 And the congregation shall deliver the slayer out of the hand of the revenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, and the congregation shall restore him to the city of his refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall abide in it unto the death of the high priest, which was anointed with the holy oil.

After having performed these commands, the revenger himself was to be imprisoned until the death of the high priest--and yet, these duties were a requirement for him!

He didn't? Maybe you need to define how we can tell what God commanded?

Is God above His law? Hitler was above His law. You think you are above your "rules". Is God like that?

But kland - the Jesus of the NT is not the real Jesus. We must look at the OT to get the real truth about what God really wants, right?

By examining the rest of the Bible. Please notice how Jesus corrected the pharisees regarding the subject of divorce:

Mat 19:7 They said to Him, Why did Moses then command to give a bill of divorce and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He said to them, Because of your hard-heartedness Moses allowed you to put away your wives

Did God ever command them to put away their wives? No, but since they were already doing it, he commanded them to give a bill of divorce.

The same is true in this case. Did God command them to physically penalize the person who has injured another person? No, but since they were already doing it, He commanded them to not exceed the crime in their punishments.

APL,

It is ironic that you should ask "Did God want the Israelites to fight their way into Canaan?" I say this because Canaan was a land of milk and honey, and God wanted His people to be there. Those are both animal products, so you abstain from them, right? Canaan, perhaps, is not where you wish to be. So why are you fighting if you don't believe one should fight?

When God commanded His people to fight, it was His will that they do so. All of His commands are expressions of His will. And "all His biddings are enablings," we are told. That is something to ponder.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

You can believe that it was God's will that the people kill if you wish. But understand that it will also change you and you will also become like that. It is a law of the mind that it gradually adapts itself to the subjects upon which it is trained to dwell.

And you off topic dig at food, but as moderator, I guess you have license to do that, let me ask you, was it OK in the beginning to marry your sister? Why is it not OK to marry your sister now? Let me ask another question, is disease in animals increasing? Increasing over what time frame? What implications does this have? You are the one introducing this topic to the thread.

By examining the rest of the Bible. Please notice how Jesus corrected the pharisees regarding the subject of divorce:

Mat 19:7 They said to Him, Why did Moses then command to give a bill of divorce and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He said to them, Because of your hard-heartedness Moses allowed you to put away your wives

Did God ever command them to put away their wives? No, but since they were already doing it, he commanded them to give a bill of divorce.

The same is true in this case. Did God command them to physically penalize the person who has injured another person? No, but since they were already doing it, He commanded them to not exceed the crime in their punishments.

EGW says clearly that Jesus was above all law.
You are above your law for your three-year-old not to touch the stove, or your law for your 14-year-old not to drive the car.

One thing is true - since God doesn't change and doesn't contradict Himself, the God of the OT can't be different from that of the NT.

Since they themselves desired it, Paul bade them set a day when he could present to them the truths of the gospel. At the time appointed, many came together, "to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening." He related his own experience, and presented arguments from the Old Testament Scriptures with simplicity, sincerity, and power. {AA 451.2}

The charges of the Jews that Christ did not regard the law of Moses, was without the least foundation. {RH, April 29, 1875 par. 2}

As Jesus explained the duty of his disciples in the works of righteousness, the Pharisees saw that the doctrines taught condemned their course, and, in order to prejudice the people against the great Teacher, whispered to one another that the lessons of Jesus were in opposition to the law of Moses, in that he made no mention of that law. {2SP 217.2}

The Pharisees had asserted that his teachings were directly opposed to the law of Moses, and for the purpose of exalting himself; yet his special directions to the cleansed leper to make an offering to the priest according to the law of Moses, evidenced to the people that these accusations were false. {2SP 229.4}

But in directing the healed man to present his offering to the priest, as enjoined by the law of Moses, he would convince them that he was not opposed to the Jewish code, if their minds were open to conviction. {2SP 231.2}

Moses of himself framed no law. Christ, the angel whom God had appointed to go before his chosen people, gave to Moses statutes and requirements necessary to a living religion and to govern the people of God. Christians commit a terrible mistake in calling this law severe and arbitrary, and then contrasting it with the gospel and mission of Christ in his ministry on earth, as though he were in opposition to the just precepts which they call the law of Moses. {RH, May 6, 1875 par. 12}

Jesus showed how the Godhead really is in the OT, too. "The Saviour is revealed in the Old Testament as clearly as in the New." {DA 799.2}

It is a grave mistake to assume Jesus altered the Law of Moses:

During the Jewish dispensation, the people executed the laws requiring capital punishment. During the Church dispensation, the state executes the laws requiring capital punishment. During the final judgment, Jesus will execute the laws requiring capital punishment.

The facts are too simple to ignore:

1. The Law of Moses requires capital punishment for a multitude of offenses.

2. Capital punishment is God's will.

Your comments are inflammatory. They break forum rules. Just because the Moderators do nothing about it, it doesn't give you the right to post hateful comments. Do the right thing, Kland - Obey the rules.

APL, you have refused to confess the truth. Jesus commanded capital punishment and war. He commands His will.

You continue to deny the Word of God. Jesus commanded capital punishment and war. Your unwillingness to confess the truth is telling.

Are you willingly being blind to what God is telling us in His Word? Perhaps you just don't see it? You probably believe that all the animal sacrifices in the OT are God's perfect will, and not His permissive will. And if so, then you see that killing and shedding of blood is a high priority of God. It is not!

Actually - what did God command? Read it in Exodus 20. No where I find it His will we kill, and in fact, it is just the opposite. What will happen if I don't love? Will He kill me? "Love me, or I will kill you"? Love cannot be commanded.

On another thread dealing with this same subject I pointed out that the reason people started dying after Adam and Eve sinned, is because they were deprived of fruit from the tree of life. Even before sin entered mankind needed to eat from the tree of life in order to have continuous life.

When they sinned Genesis tells us they were barred by angels with flaming swords from the garden in which stood the tree of life.

You mentioned this was "by the mercy of God".

Which surprised me, coming from you, as this "mercy" is obviously a death sentence -- for without the fruit from the tree of life people die a lingering slow death. (Have you been to an old folks home, or extended care home lately?)

In the OT God commanded that people be put to death? Why?
To teach that sin will be punished.
At the cross, Christ took our punishment upon Himself.
Now punishment is no longer immediately dished out, as it is hoped that people viewing the cross and their sins upon Christ will repent in brokenness of heart and turn to God Who did so much to forgive and save them from their sins.
But punishment still falls --
For those who reject Christ Who stood in their place, the punishment will fall upon their own heads.

Perhaps you are missing something. Perhaps there is more to the story. Perhaps them eating of the Tree of Life would have prevented any plan of salvation because sin would have been so integrated that it could not be removed immortalizing sin with all its misery, so yes, barring them from the tree was an act of mercy. And do note, that everyone who has been born and died will live again. The first death is NOT the wages of sin spoken about in the Bible. [/color]

The first death is the wages of sin.

"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23[color=#000080]. While life is the inheritance of the righteous, death is the portion of the wicked. Moses declared to Israel: "I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil."

I have not denied that the first death is caused by sin. But that is not what Romans 6:23 is talking about as confirmed by EGW. All will rise again. And yes, there is a distinction between the resurrections. I'll leave EGW's comment state as it is written.

Not all will rise again, but I suppose this is a mere technicality. Carry on.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I saw that the slave master [SEE APPENDIX.] will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied. {EW 276.1}