Does the Holy Spirit Have a Physical Form?

Does the Holy Spirit have a physical form in the same manner that the Father and the Son have?

Be prepared to back up your answer using either the Bible or the writings of Ellen G. White.

It is not essential for us to be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Spirit is the Comforter, "the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father." It is plainly declared regarding the Holy Spirit that, in His work of guiding men into all truth, "He shall not speak of Himself." John 15:26; 16:13. {AA 51.3}

The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. {AA 52.1}

One thing we do know from the writings of EGW is that the Father has a form that is shrouded by light in such a way that His form can't be seen, at least not by EGW in vision.

We also know that the Son has a glorified human form that can be seen.

So far I haven't found anything concrete about whether or not the Holy Spirit also has a form of His own, however, we do know of two instances where it seems that the Holy Spirit took on a form, if only for a few moments; the form of a dove at the baptism of Jesus Christ, and of tongues of fire on the Day of Pentecost.

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds. -- Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}

The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . . {Ev 616.6}

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906. {Ev 617.1}

I don't know about the form, but what about the location? I believe it is in John 15 where it describes the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son dwelling in us. And as APL's quote includes reference to John 15, that seems to add support.

I agree that the Holy Spirit is a person and has a personality as both the Father and the Son are, but does the Holy Spirit have a form as the Father and the Son have?

What is a person - "as much a person as God is a person"? A "person" is not likely a disembodied spirit.

We know that Christ came in person to reveal God to the world. God is a person and Christ is a person. Christ is spoken of in the Word as "the brightness of His Father's glory, and the express image of His person." {1SAT 343.3}

God is a spirit; yet He is a personal being, for man was made in His image. {Ed 131.1}

God is a Spirit; yet He is a personal being; for so He has revealed Himself. {FLB 40.2}

Seems like nobody can say that the Holy Spirit has His own physical form in the same manner that the Father has and the Son has.

He is "as much a person as God is a person". I look forward to hugging the Holy Spirit in Heaven.

"Personality of God" was a fundamental Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists when SP was alive...
...That doctrine required fealty that God the Father was a flesh & bone hominid God.
...With all the members, organs and parts of a perfect man.
...Same with Michael & Lucifer the archangels.

The Holy Spirit is not classified as such.

One of the oldest errors in the world is mankinds' persistent desire to reduce God to some force he can manipulate in order to increase his own powers.

The whole NEW AGE movement is built on precisely the concept of the "Great Force" to be "tapped into" of "having god inside" as a force quite devoid of personality, and if you only tap into the force you can supposedly become godlike yourself. It is the essence of Eastern religion.

Pantheisim has tried to gain recognition in our church, and had the founders earlier grasped the fullness of the Godhead: three persons in one, the pantheistic problem that caused considerable controversy, would probably never have been the problem it was.

The HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON, the third PERSON of the ONE GODHEAD. He is unencumbered with humanity, and therefore omnipresent, but a person none the less Who comes and teaches, and convicts people of their sin and leads them into truth.

To take away the personality of the Holy Spirit, and divest Him of personhood and make "it" merely "the God power" or "the Christ power", is the very basis of Pantheism, (God in everything) and leads to Christianized New Age spiritualistic falsehoods.

The THREE PERSONS GODHEAD doctrine recognizes the Holy Spirit as a PERSON. The third person of the Godhead. Even though the Greek word for "SPIRIT" is a "neuter" gender, (IT) the Bible writers use the masculine pronouns (HE, HIS) to replace the neuter form Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26; 16:13) even though syntactical that was inconsistent.

Also the HOLY SPIRIT is endowed with very "personal" characteristics like:
Intelligence and knowledge, feelings and teaching ability.

(John 14:26) "for He will teach you all things".
1 Cor. 2:13,14 He teaches us spiritual things, helping us to discern spiritual things
(1 Cor. 12:11),He makes decisions --deciding who gets what spiritual gift
He has emotions and can be grieved (Eph. 4:30)
Romans 8:26 "The Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

(John 16:8) He convicts of sin, of righteousness and judgment
Rev. 22:17
He invites people to "come" (Matt. 12:31, Mark 3:29) He can be sinned and blasphemed against, which can lead to the unpardonable sin
"The Spirit Himself bears witness.... that we are children of God (Romans 8:16

He speaks (Acts 8:29)
teaches (Luke 12:12)
reveals (Luke 2:26)
testifies (Acts 20:23)
searches (1 Cor. 2:10,11)
He sets people apart for service and sends them on their way (Acts 13:2,4)
He commands and guides (Acts 8:29)
He declares things to come (John 16:13)

Romans 8:5 He sets our minds on the things of God
Romans 8:13 Through the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the body

Peter says:-- Acts 5:3-5 Why did you lie to the Holy Spirit, ...you have lied to God.

Hebrews 9:14 says the Holy Spirit is eternal.

Romans 15:30 says the Holy Spirit loves.

1 Cor. 12:11 says the Holy Spirit divides gifts to every man as HE wills.

He has a will. He has emotions. He has a mind.

Romans 8:27 He that searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession....

In John 14-16 Christ referred to the Holy Spirit 24 times with personal PRONOUNS. HE, HIM. He addresses the Holy Spirit as a person, and treats Him as a person. He calls Him the Paraclete, which is a title which could only be held by a person.

The Paraclete, is "ANOTHER Counselor" (John 14:16) who will come and instruct.

"The Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things (14:26)

"When the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who comes forth from the Father, He will bear witness to me (15:26-27)

"When the Spirit of truth comes, HE will guide you into all truth, for HE will... glorify ME, for HE will take what is mine and declare it to you (16:13-14)


The Spirit is all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour.

Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. DA 671

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized EV. 316

dedication, do you accept "The Personality of God" Doctrine as taught by SP and the other Pioneers?

Dedication, nice study. Thank you.

Yes, dedication, nice biblically based post.

The personality of God.
There is something troubling -- that a title emphasizing the personality of God would deny the personality of the Spirit.

Just a brief overview of the early Pioneer's view on the personality (or lack of personality) of the Holy Spirit.
For the most part they taught that the Holy Spirit was NOT a "person" but a divine influence or manifestation of the presence or power of the Father or the Son.

They taught that Christ and the Father had physical bodies and those bodies did not possess omnipresence. Father and Son dwelt in a literal place called heaven. The omnipresence was their "spirit" "a mysterious force" pervading the universe.

Uriah Smith was probably the biggest promoter of this theory and clung to it even while others started moving away from it.



The theory basically puts human restrictions upon the personhood of Father and Son, and looked to the Holy Spirit as an impersonal power or mysterious influence emanating from Father and Son throughout the universe, because, they maintained, God, as a person could not be present everywhere. For them to say the Holy Spirit was a "person" was to destroy the omnipresence of God.

However, even though most Adventists believe God has form, we can look to 1 Cor. 15, and realize the scripture says it is foolish to think everything has the same type of body. The infinite and great God, while sharing qualities of His likeness with man at creation, is NOT in the image of man. We also see in Phil. 2 that Christ was in the FORM of God, but He took the FORM of a servant (of humanity) --

ELLEN WHITE

She affirms that God the Father, as well as Christ. does have a form -- but nowhere have I read that his omnipresence depends on an emanating influence.



The only time she talks about the Holy Spirit being the omnipresent representative, is when refering to the risen incarnate Christ, Who, having taken on humanity is encumbered by the human form. "The Holy Spirit isn't encumbered with the form of humanity. Christ would represent Himself as present in all places by the Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent..

She didn't try to explain things like her fellow pioneers, but accepted the work of the Holy Spirit as coming from God, and mentioned there were things she didn't know and thus was silent on those issues.

It wasn't until after 1888 that Ellen White stated emphasizing the PERSON of the Holy Spirit.
Remember -- the early pioneers denied the Holy Spirit was a person. To them a "person" had a body that could not be omnipresent.
Yet, we see Ellen White saying that God the Father was both a "person" and "omnipresent".
Was the Holy Spirit also a "person" and "omnipresent" --

It was rather suddenly, during the 1890's that she, as a messenger of the Lord became very specific on the issue of the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
Why?



Why this sudden emphases?

It was time to move forward on these things?

Especially in light of the pantheistic theories that were creeping in -- theories of an impersonal God power prevading all things.
No -- the Holy Spirit is NOT just a power eminating from God, He is a person who thinks, reasons, loves, knows, etc. etc. Yes He comes from God, He represents God, He is One with God, but like God the Father and Son are "persons" so is He a person, the third member of the Godhead.

.

What does John 14 and the above underline mean to you?
Is that the same as saying "Christ would represent Himself as present in all places by the Holy Spirit"?

Of course the Holy Spirit comes from God and represents God.,
The Holy Spirit represents Christ and the Father.. That isn't under question.

Jesus represented the Father while He was on earth,
Thus the Father represented Himself to us by Christ, why shouldn't the third member of the Godhead also represent the first and second member of the Godhead?

Scripture is plain that the Holy Spirit does NOT come from some unknown place -- HE comes from the very presence of God. He does not do "his own thing" He is here to glorify the Father and Son and instruct us in all heavenly truth.

The Holy Spirit is the representative of Jesus Christ, even as Jesus Christ was the representative of God the Father.

John 16:13,14
"When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.
5:26 When the Comforter is come, whom I (Jesus) will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he (the Holy Spirit) shall testify of me (Jesus):

That is entirely different from what the early pioneer position was, that God the Father and Son, had physical bodies and that those bodies did not possess omnipresence, thus they emitted an influence or mystical power to flow from them into all the universe. Their position was that the Holy Spirit could not be a "person" because a "person" is not omnipresemt.
Thus U. Smith asks: "God is omnipresent; and how can this be, if he is a person? - Answer: He has a representative, his Holy Spirit, by which he is ever present and ever felt in all his universe". {1884 UrS, MND 26.1}

BUT in 1893 Ellen White started to refute the pioneer position that the Holy Spirit was not a person, she wrote
"The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ's name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.{20MR 324.2}

Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer...Of the Holy Spirit Jesus said, "He shall glorify Me." The Saviour came to glorify the Father by the demonstration of His love; so the Spirit was to glorify Christ by revealing His grace to the world. DA 671.

She made many other statements along that theme so it would became even more clear --

Of course, after that, we start seeing the older pioneers frantically trying to say ..but, but, but if he is a person, then the word person doesn't always mean a person.


Fuller explanation was posted here

I dont have time to post references tonight but my understanding is that this is not a great question to be asking; I recognize that other inquiring minds want to know; but I have trouble finding where scripture tells us to decide, 100% on what the physical makeup or Substance of Deity is, or would look like in work clothes. While there are a few scriptures which suggest some kind of Person, most of the scriptures I know of simply spell out the Three distinctive roles in the plan of salvation. I think that far too often, we do eliminate one or more of the Godhead, by trying to make the scriptures say they are referring to Substance, rather than roles or actions of Personalities. Its great that the Bible calls each of the three by personal names, personal actions. But a parenthetical mentioning of The Three as being some kind of Person, do we really know or need to know any further than this if its not in scripture? For example: God The Father is in heaven; Jesus is heaven, the Holy Spirit is here. Jesus is our Advocate to The Father, with His shed blood; and The Holy Spirit is here, living in our heart, and being our Advocate for Jesus; in order that we might come to Jesus, and know Him who is ever & always our eternal life, if we know Him. But knowing God does not include anything like knowing His physical Substance. Saying that "Jesus was really The Spirit" is a good example; for the texts involved have nothing to say about Substance, only the roles, as predetermined by "the heavenly counsel." I have some good references for next time

Fully agree, Wanderer, that we have no clue as to "100% on what the physical makeup or Substance of Deity is" -- or even 50% or even 3%.
Basically, that is where all this controversy begins!!!!

If you notice -- it seems to all boil down into trying to make God identical to us.
That is where trying to make Adventism get back into the tight little box the Pioneers constructed in their finite attempts to define the physical nature of God, is wrong.

The pioneers -- were very adamant that God (both the Father and the Son) had a "body" much like us, -- and they quoted texts like we see Joseph Bates here:


Or Uriah Smith


The pioneers took that a step further -- reasoning -- since the Father and Son have a body much like a human body, therefore they, having bodies, can't be omnipresent. A body resides in one place, it can't be everywhere. Therefore, they have a representative -- the Holy Spirit -- which has no body or form, which they describe as a power, influence, aura, an impersonal (not a person or being) power or mysterious influence emanating from Father and Son throughout the universe,through which the omnipresence of God functions.

IMO the above is trying to define a lot of things about God that are mere "human constructs" .
In certain ways it is placing God into our image and into our likeness, into our little finite mode.. While God created mankind to bear His image -- God is far, far, immensely superior in every possible way.


A PERSON
That phrase is a human expression, therefore it can never really describe God. But what word can we use in our attempts to know God? We are limited to human speech.

The word "A BEING" which is also a human expression, is a very IMPERSONAL word, that simply means the substance that constitute an existent identity.
That God has substance I don't think we should question. Father, Son and Holy Spirit all have that same substance. But exactly what that substance is we don't have ANY information.

Whereas the word "PERSON" holds a meaning of "personal" -- someone who loves, cares, thinks, plans, etc. a rational identity.


The issue that IS important is what is called "the personality of God" -- NOT what constitutes the "substance" of God. While we have no idea about the inner reality that is God, we do KNOW (and need to know and appreciate) that we have a personal God -- and each of the three members of the Godhead that scripture has introduced to us -- has been presented in scripture as a "personality" that thinks, loves, cares, speaks, gives, has emotions etc. not just a mere substance, power, or influence.

We do know that there are three LIVING "persons" in the heavenly trio.

Why not simply accept this, and believe they work in complete harmony and unity as the ONE TRUE GOD?
Yes, each in the fullness of the Godhead, fully committed to filling their part in the everlasting covenant as predetermined by "the heavenly counsel"

" The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption".Counsels on Health, p. 222



Praise be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit -- our ONE GOD (three in One) for the abundant mercy, the marvelous grace and love and redemption.
We serve an awesome God -- .
He is our hope, life, and reason for living!

I think you meant "defined form", and the answer is yes.

In the beginning, Genesis 1 says "... and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." That very Spirit of God created all things, then this: "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Do all men look exactly alike? No, but they do have the clearly defined form of a human being.

The Holy Spirit is therefore not diffused, but like the long arm of the law, is everywhere at all times through angelic agencies. Jesus said, "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven." Mat. 18:27

///

But do you understand that isn't exactly what I asked? Do you see a difference?

I agree! There is NOTHING in Scripture telling us NOT to worship the Holy Spirit. Praying for/to God The Holy Spirit is all an act of worship, fully supported by Scripture. There is no need or mandate in excluding The Spirit from our worship. (Rom 8:26, 1 Cor 14:15)

Again, this is a misuse of EGW writings that she would not condone. Taking one sentence out of the context of what she wrote and then making it out to sound like she "really" intended it to mean something else, has no sound exegetical path to follow. She has also said similar things about God The Father, and God The Son, so whipping us with this one small quote, tells no one anything they need to know FROM SCRIPTURE. Gal 6:4, for example, tells us that "because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" BUT this has NOTHING to do with the Physical Substance of ANY Deity!

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mat 28:19)


Jesus' words affirm the reality of the Trinity. Some people accuse theologians of making up the concept of the Trinity and reading it into Scripture. As we see here, the concept comes directly from Jesus himself. He did not say baptize them in the names, but in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The word Trinity does not occur in Scripture, but it well describes the three-in-one nature of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The disciples were to baptize people because baptism unites believers with Jesus Christ in their death to sin and their resurrection to new life. Baptism symbolizes submission to Christ, a willingness to live God's way, and identification with God's covenant people.

None of said forms appear to be a statement about the physical Substance or make up of any Deity, of any of The Three. However, in regards to your second comment, there is an answer in scripture about this very idea: "And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased." (Luke 3:22)

This is one of several places in Scripture where all the members of the Trinity are mentioned?Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In the traditional words of the church, the one God exists in three persons but one substance, co-eternal and coequal. No explanation can adequately portray the Substance, in connections to us; and in the power and intricacy of this unique relationship. There are no perfect analogies in nature or Scripture because there is no other relationship like the Trinity. God The Spirit is revealed in Holy Writ as being just as much a Person as are the Father and the Son. God The Spirit inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ?s life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. But none of this reveals to us anything concrete about the Substance of Deity. (Gen 1:1-2; 2 Sam 23:2; Psalms 51:11; Isa 61:1; Luke 1:35; Luke 4:18; John 14:16-18; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7-13; Acts 1:8; Acts 5:3; Acts 10:38; Rom 5:5; 1 Cor 12:7-11; 2 Cor 3:18; 2 Pet 1:21.) We really have no idea that is credible regarding the Substance, only the Roles of Deity, according to all these, and many other scriptures. Knowing from Scripture that there are three distinct Personalities at work in complete unity, tells us nothing about the Substance of Deity, but sometimes, we do glean a brief statement about on of The Three, and their "form" or "image" as they worked together on our salvation in their respective roles. Scripture reveals very little about Substance for any Deity. It simply declares what each one is doing and what we can expect.

1/ This is not a question about the authority Jesus has, or of His abilities to "go anywhere."

Unless we wish to say scripture contradicts itself, we have to go with Heb 7:25 telling us how & why Jesus is in heaven; else why would He need to "come again?"

There would also be no point in His second coming IF He were already here. Jesus Christ our Advocate pleads His shed blood to The Father, on our behalf. The Holy Spirit, is "ANOTHER COMFORTER" (totally opposite to the SAME Comforter - see John 14:6) "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them..." (Heb 7:25) According to Heb 7:24, Jesus has "an unchangable Priesthood," meaning that He does not suddenly interrupt His work of being our Advocate; and in pleading His blood for us, just to suddenly do a mysterious switch-back and suddenly change into God The Holy Spirit.

Jesus Himself prayed to The Father, for ANOTHER, (not the same) "Comforter." (John 14:6). There is no way to avoid that word "ANOTHER." Another does not mean "the same." The Holy Spirit, being called "Another Comforter," advocates to us, for and about Jesus. While Jesus advocates for us to The Father; The Spirit confines His ministry to telling us only about Jesus:

"the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26) Jesus also said in John 16:7 "if I don't GO AWAY the Holy Spirit will not come to you..." Jesus was not ever referring to Himself or The Spirit's coming by way of generation, creation, or procession of any kind. The fact that there are three Personalities in the One Divine Being is so clearly revealed in the Word of God that it cannot be contradicted. It is evident in both the Old and New Testaments.


2/ Modalism, distorts "the image of God" by trying to say there are two Gods. Jesus and The Father. Modalism then tries to say that Jesus is sometimes "the Holy Spirit, that Jesus just magically changes into a Spirit when it suits Him, so that makes three Gods anyway!!

But the Bible talks about "one God," and this One God is the whole point of The Three Angel's Message. "And I saw another cherub flying in mid-heaven, and with blood having the everlasting good news to proclaim to those dwelling on the earth, even to every nation and tribe and tongue and people," (Rev 14:6, HRB) Now, whose blood would THAT be? Inspired counsel tells us that "There is one great central truth to be kept ever before the mind in the searching of the Scriptures--Christ and Him crucified. Every other truth is invested with influence and power corresponding to its relation to this theme. . ." (FLB 50.2)

The One Divine Being subsists in three Persons, not collaterally, or side-by-side, but rather this One Person exists by virtue of each of the others. There is but one, and only ONE God. ?Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord? (Deu 6:4); ?For though there be that are called gods ... to us there is but one God? (1 Cor 8:5-6); ?But God is one? (Gal 3:20); ?For there is one God? (1 Tim 2:5). IF we are going to call God anything else other than "the Father," such as God The Father & God The Son, and/or God The Spirit; then it has to be conceded that this "one" is in a collective, plural context. (see elohim of Deut 6:4). But it is not the human theories that try to define the Substance from our very limited and short-sighted human knowledge and perception alone that is the point of scripture; the Bible deals with only the sense (context) that describes said ROLES in the plan of salvation. The Substance, as in physical make-up of Deity is never made a point needed for salvation; but when we misunderstand or misrepresent the scripture-stated roles of EACH ONE of The Three, we cannot understand how God wants to deal with us in His plan of salvation.

This one and only God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Divine Being has a threefold manner of existence, which expressed in intelligible language -- lest objectors find here a pretext -- is fully denominated in Scripture by the use of the word ?person.? In Heb 1:3 reference is made to ?the express image of His person,? or as it is stated in Greek, T?s hypostas?s autou. Since the word hypostasis refers to an intelligent, independent being, the reference is consequently to a person. From scripture; we can only understand this to refer to a living, intelligent, incommunicable being who is fully independent, sharing no part with any other being.

Biblical and spirit of prophecy application of this concept of any one of The Three divine entities are plainly called Persons, or Personalities, so that, in perceiving the suggested (by scripture) divine dimension of the anthropomorphism, we should be able to comprehend at least, some small thing about that which is, in effect, incomprehensible.
For example; we can consider one of the divine Persons in an abstract sense, that is, outside of the context of the Divine Being, as is expressed for instance in Heb 1:3, where it is stated that Christ is the express image of His Father's Person. We can also consider the Person in a concrete sense, that is, as viewed in union with the divine Being, such as is expressed in Phil 2:6, where it is said ?Who being in the form of God.? According to His divine nature Christ is said to be en morph? Theou, in the form, that is, having the being and nature of God so that He is equal to God. As the form of a servant includes Personhood, essential being, and characteristics, the Word of God similarly includes personhood, essential being, and attributes as constituting the form of God, as in any one of The Three. The manner in which attributes are ascribed to God cannot be based on "must be" or "might be." It has to be explicitly stated in Scripture.

3/ Further, none of the texts in your post are talking about the Substance, that you appear to be alluding to, as in physical Substance of any Deity. Scripture doesnt go there when talking about any of the Three Members of The Godhead. Neither do any of those texts tell us that, as in the teachings of Modalism, Jesus suddenly morphs into The Holy Spirit. Confusing the multivariate ROLES of The Three with some imagined Substance that we suppose to be Deity is to go where no scripture has gone before. The scripture pre-condition for "Knowing God and Whom he has sent, is talking about both Jesus and The Holy Spirit, for both were "sent" and both are God. In fact, scripture teaches that we cannot know God by just the mere presence of the Spirit; for He must be indwelling and baptizing Christ-followers, secured by this the fullness of blessing, victory, and power, The state of being filled with the Spirit. Eph 5:18, is a distinct command to "be filled with the Spirit." It has nothing to do with the physical make up or Substance of Deity. Scripture does not dwell on that point for a reason

4/ When Gabriel spoke of His incarnation, he (Gabriel) told Mary (speaking of Jesus Christ pre-incarnate), "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35 He was THAT Holy Spirit, i.e. the power of the Highest.

The context of this scripture immediately suggests that your proposition here is very wrong: Luke 1:35 cannot possibly be talking about Jesus somehow also being The Spirit. Modalism always leads to trying to mix this up. It simply states that the angel Gabriel brought a message to Mary that she would give birth to Jesus, and that "The Holy Spirit" was NOT "that Holy One to be born" because The Holy Spirit, as always in His role and ministry would visit Mary with "The Power of The Highest," (meaning The Father), and that The ETERNAL Godhead, working together, would bring about the Incarnation. There are THREE separate and distinctive Persons mentioned in Luke 1:35

1) "The Most High " (the Father)

2) "The Holy Spirit" (Holy Spirit) and (Its impossible to mix these three up and morph them into one or two version of our favorite God)

3) "that Holy One," (meaning Jesus).

Jesus came that He might plead for us as our Advocate to The Father; and "ANOTHER Comforter, not Jesus, was sent to plead to us, as Jesus' Advocate, to lead us to Christ. The Holy Spirit clearly tells us throughout Scripture that He has NO interest in talking about Himself; only about Jesus. It was Jesus who"assumed the liabilities of human nature, to be proved and tried. NOT The Holy Spirit! In His humanity Jesus was a partaker of the divine nature. The Holy Spirit did not, does not have a "human nature." In His incarnation Jesus was still, (not became) the Son of God. Said the angel to Mary, "The power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." While the Son of a human being, He was still the Son of God. Thus He stood in our world--as "God's only Son," the Son of God, yet allied by birth to the human race. "From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God. He is the link that unites God with humanity [Heb 2:14 quoted] (ST Aug. 2, 1905). {5BC 1115.1} Ellen White knew what she was talking about here: scripture backs her up all the way on this point. "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil," According to Heb 2:14, it was not The Holy Spirit who died; it was Jesus! Using your ideas on Luke 1:35 would have to mean it was The Spirit who died! This very point is the red line between truth and error. "Christ and Him crucified." All other truths are invested with power & influence, according to their relation to this theme. (see Gal 6:14, etc). What you are saying here is that Jesus did not die; because He was "really" The Holy Spirit.

5/ And at the end, Paul says, "... concerning [God's] Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." Rom. 1:3-4.

6/ In other words, THE Holy Spirit became Jesus of Nazareth who upon resurrection became THE Holy Spirit. He was always THE Holy Spirit, as it is written, "... how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" Heb. 9:4 In other words, the Eternal Spirit offered the body of Jesus of Nazareth, His humanity as it were.

Again; this is a complete distortion of scripture, and its intended context. The first mistake, once again being that you are trying to make these texts out to define the very Substance, or physical make up of Deity. None of these two scriptures are anywhere talking about this. It looks like you have just cut and pasted this from an antitrinity website and not thought it through very well. What you have posted is quite familiar but it proves nothing against The Holy Spirit. God, The Holy Spirit is our Leader into all truth. Of Him, Jesus says, "He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13). Jesus calls The Spirit "He." God The Spirit guided the minds of the apostles of Christ to write and speak all that Jesus did and uttered; so that in the apostolic writings we have the whole of Christ fully set before us. And the Holy Spirit leads by the Word the minds of the people into a knowledge of all saving and necessary truth. God The Spirit directs the heart into the love of God, and guides the believer into personal and a distinctive fellowship with Christ. God The Holy Spirit is or becomes a witness for Jesus in the soul, and a glorifier for Jesus in the understanding, heart, and conscience. God The Holy Spirit is the Sanctifier of all the elect people of God, who abides with them for ever, as the advocate, as ANOTHER Comforter, the taker of the things of Christ, who makes them clear and plain to the mind renewed and enlightened by Him. God The Holy Spirit opens and gives a view of the unsearchable riches of Christ. And, as the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, He leads us into the knowledge and enjoyment of the Father's love in personal communion with Him. (1 John 5:11-12) Here are just a few of some of the titles, names, and characters of the Holy Spirit given Him in the Scripture, which evidently belong unto him, as in how they are so descriptive of his covenant office/role in the plan of salvation:

God The Holy Spirit is called

"The Spirit of the living God" (2 Cor. 3:3),

"The Spirit of life from God" (Rev. 11: 11),

"The breath or Spirit of God" (Ezek. 37:9),

"Lord and God" (I Cor. 12:3, 4, 5, 6),

"Holy Spirit" (Isa. 63:11; Epb. 4:30),

"A sanctifier" "Rom. 15:16),

"A witness for Jesus" (Heb. 10: 15),

"A leader into all truth" (John 16:13), see also Neh 9:20 OT & NT are united on this! (compare Isaiah 48:16, Isaiah 63:10, Hag 2:4-5) God The Holy Spirit does this through God's Word, The Holy Bible: "All Scripture is written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness," (2 Tim 3:16)

"ANOTHER comforter" (John 14:16), (not the same Comforter, but ANOTHER Comforter)

Scripture is very clear and distinctly calls God The Holy Spirit our Advocate as well: (John 15:26), Jesus pleads to The Father for us, with His shed blood; and The Holy soirit advocates with us for Jesus, to help us gain informed consent and divine comfort from God The Holy Spirit; our OTHER Comforter.

"The taker of the things of Christ (for so might the word be rendered), who makes them clear and plain" (John 16:15), even in the Old Testament, Nehemiah says the same thing how that God The Holy Spirit educated God's people on things they needed to know: "You also gave Your good Spirit to teach them, and did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, and gave them water for their thirst." (Neh 9:20)

God the Spirit is "The glorifier of Jesus" (John 16:14), and "the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him" (Eph. 1: 17).

Paul styles him as the Spirit of God's Son. "And because ye are Sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts" (Gal. 4:6).

He is called the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of adoption (Rom. 8:9,15), and the Spirit of God and of glory (I Pet. 4:14).

He is called, "The earnest of our inheritance" (Eph. 1: 14), and the sealer by whom we "are sealed unto the day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30).

The Works of John Wesley, Volume VI, page 200, subject, On the Trinity:

I dare not insist upon any one?s using the word Trinity, or Person. I use them myself without any scruple, because I know of none better. But if any man has any scruple concerning them, who shall constrain him to use them? I cannot . . . I would insist only on the direct words, unexplained, just as they lie in the text: ?There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: And these three are one.?

The Spirit of God, as a witness for/about Jesus, bears testimony to the everlasting perfection, work, and efficacy of Christ's life and death. His witness is in the scriptures of truth, where be fully declares that the Father is everlastingly well pleased with every sinner who comes before him trusting thereon for his present and eternal discharge from all sin. To such be says, I will be merciful to your unrighteousness, and your sins and your iniquities will I remember no more." The Holy Ghost bears his witness to this in the believer's mind, and enables the renewed person to rest satisfied with his divine proof of it, which he gives from the immutable word. "As a leader into all truth," he gives the renewed soul to see the value of truth, and to pray to be led into it.

So did the prophet, "Thy Spirit is good, lead me" (Psalm 143: 10). As "a Comforter," be applies the consolations of Christ to the wounded heart, broken spirit, and distressed mind, as the case requires. As an advocate, he pleads in the court of conscience the cause of Christ, and this he does so effectually, that the awakened sinner is brought to see the work of Jesus to be a finished salvation, and that the divine record of the Father is a sufficient warrant for his believing. And the Holy Spirit so pleads the blood and righteousness of Christ under these views of it, that the sinner is brought to believe the righteousness of Jesus everlastingly sufficient to present him righteous at God's bar; and the blood of the Lamb everlastingly efficacious to cleanse him from all sins.

And be comes before Jesus in the belief of it, and pleads it before the throne. The Holy Spirit as "the taker of things of Christ," gives the believer blessed views of the person, love, righteousness, blood, fulness, mercy, and compassion of Christ, such as draw the whole heart, and knit it to Jesus. In so doing he is the glorifier of Jesus, and gives such views, and creates such apprehensions of him in the renewed mind, as exceed all expression. As "the Spirit of wisdom and revelation," he goes on to make the Father's everlasting love more known, and gives the believer repeated discoveries of it by giving him more free, full, and open communion with the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. As "the Spirit of the Father and the Son," he is sent by the Father, in the name of the Son, into the hearts of believers, as "the Spirit of adoption," whereby they know God to be their Father. As "the Spirit of Christ," he leads to him, and reveals him to the called, as the hope of glory. As "the Spirit of glory," be gives a foretaste of it, becomes the earnest of it, seals to the day of redemption, and at seasons, fills the soul with "joys unspeakable and full of glory."

In the book of Genesis we find an equality between the divine Persons of the Godhead. Gen 1:26-27 : ?And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness . . . So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of God . . . created HE them.? This is similar to the language found at Gen 11:7-8 concerning the time of the Tower of Babel: ?Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So THE LORD scattered them abroad . . .?

At Isa 9:6 a prophecy is found referring to Messiah as ?the mighty God.? Quoting The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, this verse is number five in chapter nine: ?And his name is called Wonderful, Councellor; The Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.?

Jehovah?s Witnesses, Arians, and the like will be quick to point out that he is called mighty, not ALMIGHTY. SO we will be quick to point out in return that so is Jehovah! Where? At Isa 10:21 and Jer 32:18! In all three verses you find the SAME HEBREW EXPRESSION, namely, EL GIBBOR. SO here Messiah has the same title as Jehovah God.

Coming to Isa 40:3 we read a prophecy concerning the coming Messiah: ?The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.? We find this fulfilled at Joh 1:23 : ?He [John] said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.? If the New Testament English were true to the Hebrew text to which it refers, it would read ?the way of Jehovah,? for this is the prophecy referred to which was being fulfilled. Of course it refers to Jesus Christ! So here the prophecy concerning ?Jehovah . . . our God? was fulfilled by Jesus!

The way was to be prepared for JEHOVAH (Isaiah 40:3); it was fulfilled by the one in Whom was "the way, the truth; and the Life)." (John 14:6)


A Brief Comment On "GODHEAD"

god'-hed:

The word "Godhead" is a simple doublet of the less frequently occurring "Godhood." Both forms stand side by side in the Ancren Riwle (about 1225 AD), and both have survived until today, though not in equally common use. They are representatives of a large class of abstract substantives, formed with the suffix "-head" or "-hood", most of which formerly occurred in both forms almost indifferently, though the majority of them survive only, or very preponderatingly (except in Scottish speech), in the form -hood. The two suffixes appear in Middle English as "-hede" and "-hod", and presuppose in the Anglo-Saxon which lies behind them a feminine "haeda" (which is not actually known) by the side of the masculine had. The Anglo-Saxon word "was originally a distinct substantive, meaning `person, personality, sex, condition, quality, rank' " (Bradley, in A New English Dict. on a Historical Basis, under the word "-hood"), but its use as a suffix early superseded its separate employment. At first "-hede" appears to have been appropriated to adjectives, "-hod" to substantives; but, this distinction breaking down and the forms coming into indiscriminate use, "-hede" grew obsolete, and remains in common use only in one or two special forms, such as "Godhead," "maidenhead" (Bradley, as cited, under the word "-head").

The general elimination of the forms in -head has been followed by a fading consciousness, in the case of the few surviving instances in this form, of the qualitative sense inherent in the suffix. The words accordingly show a tendency to become simple denotatives. Thus, "the Godhead" is frequently employed merely as a somewhat strong synonym of "God" although usually with more or less emphasis upon that in God which makes Him God. One of its established usages is to denote the Divine essence as such, in distinction from the three "hypostases" or "persons" which share its common possession in the doctrine of the Trinity. This usage is old:

One scholar I have seen is able to adduce instances from the 13th century. In this usage the word has long held the rank of a technical term, e.g. the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England, 1571, Art. I: "And in the unity of this Godhead, there be three persons" (compare the Irish Articles of 1615, and the Westminster Confession, II, 3); Westminster Shorter Catechism, Q. 6: "There are three persons in the Godhead." Pursuant to the fading of the qualitative sense of the word, there has arisen a tendency, when the qualitative consciousness is vivid, to revive the obsolescent "Godhood," to take its place; and this tendency naturally shows itself especially when the contrast with humanity is expressed. Carlyle, for example (French Revolution, III, Book vi, chapter iv, section 1), speaking of the posthumous reaction against Marat, writes: "Shorter godhood had no divine man"; and Phillips Brooks (Sermons, XIII, 237) speaks of Christ bridging the gulf "between the Godhood and the manhood." "Godhood" seems, indeed, always to have had a tendency to appear in such contrasts, as if the qualitative consciousness were more active in it than in "Godhead." Thus, it seems formerly to have suggested itself almost as inevitably to designate the Divine nature of Christ, as "Godhead" did to designate the common Divine essence of the Trinity. Bradley cites instances from 1563 down.

The fundamental meaning of "Godhead" is, nevertheless, no less than that of "Godhood," the state, dignity, condition, quality, of a god, or, as monotheists would say, of God. As manhood is that which makes a man a man, and childhood that which makes a child a child, so Godhead is that which makes God, God. When we ascribe Godhead to a being, therefore, we affirm that all that enters into the idea of God belongs to Him. "Godhead" is thus the Saxon equivalent of the Latin "Divinity," or, as it is now becoming more usual to say, "Deity." Like these terms it is rendered concrete by prefixing the article to it. As "the Divinity," "the Deity," so also "the Godhead" is only another way of saying "God," except that when we say "the Divinity," "the Deity," "the Godhead," we are saying "God" more abstractly and more qualitatively, that is with more emphasis, or at least with a more lively consciousness, of the constitutive qualities which make God the kind of being we call "God."

The word "Godhead" occurs in the King James Version only 3 times (Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9), and oddly enough it translates in these 3 passages, 3 different, though closely related, Greek words, to theion theiotes, theotes.

To theion means "that which is Divine," concretely, or, shortly, "the Deity." Among the Greeks it was in constant use in the sense of "the Divine Being," and particularly as a general term to designate the Deity apart from reference to a particular god. It is used by Paul (Acts 17:29) in an address made to a heathen audience, and is inserted into a context in which it is flanked by the simple term "God" (ho Theos) on both sides. It is obviously deliberately chosen in order to throw up into emphasis the qualitative idea of God; and this emphasis is still further heightened by the direct contrast into which it is brought with the term "man." "Being, then, the offspring of God, we ought not to think that it is to gold or silver or stone graven by art and device of man that the Godhead is like." In an effort to bring out this qualitative emphasis, the Revised Version, margin suggests that we might substitute for "the Godhead" here the periphrastic rendering, "that which is Divine." But this seems both clumsy and ineffective for its purpose. From the philological standpoint, "the Godhead" is very fair equivalent for to theion, differing as it does from the simple "God" precisely by its qualitative emphasis. It may be doubted, however, whether in the partial loss by "Godhead" of its qualitative force in its current usage, one of its synonyms, "the Divinity" (which is the rendering here of the Rhemish version) or "the Deity," would not better convey Paul's emphasis to modern readers.

Neither of these terms, "Divinity," "Deity," occurs anywhere in the King James Version, and "Deity" does not occur in the Revised Version (British and American) either; but the Revised Version (British and American) (following the Rhemish version) substitutes "Dignity" for "Godhead" in Romans 1:20. Of the two, "Dignity" was originally of the broader connotation; in the days of heathendom it was applicable to all grades of Divine beings. "Deity" was introduced by the Christian Fathers for the express purpose of providing a stronger word by means of which the uniqueness of the Christians' God should be emphasized. Perhaps "Divinity" retains even in its English usage something of its traditional weaker connotation, although, of course, in a monotheistic consciousness the two terms coalesce in meaning. There exists a tendency to insist, therefore, on the "Deity" of Christ, rather than his mere "Divinity," in the feeling that "Divinity" might lend itself to the notion that Christ possessed but a secondary or reduced grade of Divine quality. In Acts 17:29 Paul is not discriminating between grades of Divinity, but is preaching monotheism. In this context, then, to theion does not lump together "all that is called God or is worshipped," and declare that all that is in any sense Divine should be esteemed beyond the power of material things worthily to represent. Paul has the idea of God at its height before his mind, and having quickened his hearers' sense of God's exaltation by his elevated description of Him, he demands of them whether this Deity can be fitly represented by any art of man working in dead stuff. He uses the term to theion, rather than ho theos, not merely in courteous adoption of his hearers' own language, but because of its qualitative emphasis. On the whole, the best English translation of it would probably be "the Deity." "The Godhead" has ceased to be sufficiently qualitative: neither is "the Godhead" sufficiently current: "the Divine" is not sufficiently personal: "the Divinity" is perhaps not sufficiently strong: "Deity" without the article loses too much of its personal reference to compensate for the gain in qualitativeness: "the Deity" alone seems fairly to reproduce the apostle's thought.

The Greek term in Romans 1:20 is theiotes, which again, as a term of quality, is not unfairly rendered by "Godhead." What Paul says here is that "the everlasting power and Godhead" of God "are clearly perceived by means of His works." By "Godhead" he clearly means the whole of that by which God is constituted what we mean by "God." By coupling the word with "power," Paul no doubt intimates that his mind is resting especially upon those qualities which enter most intimately into and constitute the exaltation of God; but we must beware of limiting the connotation of the term--all of God's attributes are glorious. The context shows that the thought of the apostle was moving on much the same lines as in Acts 17:29; here, too, the contrast which determines the emphasis is with "corruptible man," and along with him, with the lower creatures in general (Romans 1:23). How could man think of the Godhead under such similitudes--the Godhead, so clearly manifested in its glory by its works! The substitution for "Godhead" here of its synonym "Divinity" by the Revised Version (British and American) is doubtless due in part to a desire to give distinctive renderings to distinct terms, and in part to a wish to emphasize, more strongly than "Godhead" in its modern usage emphasizes, the qualitative implication which is so strong in theiotes. Perhaps, however, the substitution is not altogether felicitous. "Divinity," in its contrast with "Deity," may have a certain weakness of connotation clinging to it, which would unsuit it to represent theiotes here. It is quite true that the two terms, "Divinity" and "Deity," are the representatives in Latin Patristic writers respectively of the Greek theiotes and theotes. Augustine (The City of God, VII, 1; compare X, 1) tells us that "Deity" was coined by Christian writers as a more accurate rendering of the Greek theotes than the current "Divinity." But it does not follow that because "Deity" more accurately renders theotes, therefore "Divinity" is always the best rendering of theiotes. The stress laid by the Greek Fathers on the employment of theotes to express the "Deity" of the Persons of the Trinity was in sequence to attempts which were being made to ascribe to the Son and the Spirit a reduced "Divinity"; and it was the need the Latin Fathers felt in the same interests which led them to coin "Deity" as a more accurate rendering, as they say, of theotes. Meanwhile theiotes and "Divinity" had done service in the two languages, the former as practically, and the latter as absolutely, the only term in use to express the idea of "Deity." Theotes is very rare in classical Greek, "Deity" non- existent in classical Latin. To represent theiotes uniformly by "Divinity," if any reduced connotation at all clings to "Divinity," would therefore be to represent it often very inadequately. And that is the case in the present passage. What Paul says is clearly made known by God's works, is His everlasting power and all the other everlasting attributes which form His Godhead and constitute His glory.

It is theotes which occurs in Colossians 2:9. Here Paul declares that "all the fullness of the Godhead" dwells in Christ "bodily." The phrase "fullness of the Godhead" is an especially emphatic one. It means everything without exception which goes to make up the Godhead, the totality of all that enters into the conception of Godhood. All this, says Paul, dwells in Christ "bodily," that is after such a fashion as to be manifested in connection with a bodily organism. This is the distinction of Christ:

"in the Father" and "in the Spirit" the whole FULNESS of the Godhead dwells also, but not "bodily"; in them it is not manifested in connection with a bodily life. It is ALSO the Incarnation which Paul has in mind; and he tells us that in the incarnate Son, the fullness of the Godhead dwells. The term chosen to express the Godhead here is the strongest and the most unambiguously decisive which the language affords. Theiotes may mean all that theotes can mean; on monotheistic lips it does mean just what theotes means; but theotes must mean the utmost that either term can mean. The distinction is, not that theotes refers to the essence and theiotes to the attributes; we cannot separate the essence and the attributes. Where the essence is, there the attributes are; they are merely the determinants of the essence. And where the attributes are, there the essence is; it is merely the thing, of the kind of which they are the determinants. The distinction is that theotes emphasizes that it is the highest stretch of Divinity which is in question, while theiotes might possibly be taken as referring to Deity at a lower level. It it not merely such divinity as is shared by all the gods many and lords many of the heathen world, to which "heroes" might aspire, and "demons" attain, all the plenitude of which dwells in Christ as incarnate; but that Deity which is peculiar to the high gods; or, since Paul is writing out of a monotheistic consciousness, that Deity which is the Supreme God alone. All the fullness of supreme Deity dwells in Christ bodily. There is nothing in the God who is over all which is not in Christ. Probably no better rendering of this idea is afforded by our modern English than the term "Godhead," in which the qualitative notion still lurks, though somewhat obscured behind the individualizing implication, and which in any event emphasizes precisely what Paul wishes here to assert--that all that enters into the conception of God, and makes God what we mean by the term "God," dwells in Christ, and is manifested in Him in connection with a bodily organism.

Third Person of the Godhead

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. 2 Corinthians 13:14. {FLB 52.1}

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit . . . is as much a person as God is a person. . . . {FLB 52.2}

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. {FLB 52.3}

The Holy Spirit is a free, working, independent agency. The God of heaven uses His Spirit as it pleases Him; and human minds, human judgment, and human methods can no more set boundaries to its working, or prescribe the channel through which it shall operate, than they can say to the wind, "I bid you to blow in a certain direction, and to conduct yourself in such and such a manner." {FLB 52.4}

From the beginning God has been working by His Holy Spirit through human instrumentalities for the accomplishment of His purpose in behalf of the fallen race. . . . The same power that sustained the patriarchs, that gave Caleb and Joshua faith and courage, and that made the work of the apostolic church effective, has upheld God's faithful children in every succeeding age. {FLB 52.5}

The Holy Spirit was the highest of all gifts that He [Jesus] could solicit from His Father for the exaltation of His people. The Spirit was to be given as a regenerating agent, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail. The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. {FLB 52.6}

The Holy Spirit is an effective helper in restoring the image of God in the human soul. {FLB 52.7}


The Gift of God to You



Christ has promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to His church, and the promise belongs to us as much as to the first disciples. {FLB 53.2} We should pray as earnestly for the descent of the Holy Spirit as the disciples prayed on the day of Pentecost. If they needed it at that time, we need it more today. {FLB 53.3} The measure of the Holy Spirit we receive will be proportioned to the measure of our desire and the faith exercised for it, and the use we shall make of the light and knowledge that shall be given to us. {FLB 53.4}

There are many who believe and profess to claim the Lord's promise; they talk about Christ and about the Holy Spirit, yet receive no benefit. They do not surrender the soul to be guided and controlled by the divine agencies. We cannot use the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is to use us. Through the Spirit God works in His people "to will and to do of his good pleasure." Philippians 2:13. But many will not submit to this. They want to manage themselves. This is why they do not receive the heavenly gift. Only to those who wait humbly upon God, who watch for His guidance and grace, is the Spirit given. The power of God awaits their demand and reception. This promised blessing, claimed by faith, brings all other blessings in its train. It is given according to the riches of the grace of Christ, and He is ready to supply every soul according to the capacity to receive. {FLB 53.5}

When the Holy Spirit is abiding in the heart, it will lead the human agent to see his own defects of character, to pity the weakness of others, to forgive as he wishes to be forgiven. He will be pitiful, courteous, Christlike. {FLB 53.6} The Holy Spirit imparts love, joy, peace, strength, and consolation; it is as a well of water springing up unto everlasting life. The blessing is free to all. {FLB 53.7}

The Truth About Worshipping God

Those who trust wholly in the righteousness of Christ, looking to Him in living faith, know the Spirit of Christ and are known of Christ. Simple faith enables the believer to reckon himself dead indeed unto sin and alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. We are saved by grace through our faith, and that not of ourselves; it is the gift of God. Should we try to unfold these precious promises to the worldly wise, they would but ridicule us; for "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14). {FW 91.1}



There are many who find satisfaction in identifying themselves with false doctrines, that there may be no disturbance or difference between themselves and the world; but the children of God must bear testimony to the truth, not only by pen and voice but by spirit and character. Our Saviour declares that the world cannot receive the spirit of truth. They cannot discern the truth, for they discern not Christ, the Author of truth. Lukewarm disciples, coldhearted professors, who are not imbued with the Spirit of Christ, are not able to discern the preciousness of His righteousness; but they go about to establish their own righteousness. {FW 91.3}

The world seeks the things of the world--business, worldly honor, display, selfish gratification. Christ seeks to break this spell which holds men away from Him. He seeks to call men's attention to the world to come, that Satan has managed to eclipse by his own shadow. Christ brings the eternal world within the range of men's vision, He presents its attractions before them, tells them that He will prepare mansions for them, and will come again and receive them unto Himself. It is the design of Satan so to fill the mind with inordinate love of sensual things that the love of God and the desire for heaven shall be expelled from the heart. . . . {FW 92.1}

THE Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ, indicating that He has a clearly defined form.

• Gabriel informed Mary, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35, THE Holy Spirit (i.e. the power of the Highest) became Jesus of Nazareth.
   
• God Himself referred to Jesus Christ as THE Holy Spirit. Immediately after John had baptized Jesus, he (John) saw a vision of a dove descending and alighting on Jesus which indicated to John that Jesus of Nazareth was THE Holy Spirit who had descended from heaven. And God said, "This is My Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Jesus of Nazareth was the promised Messiah.
  
  This is the testimony of John: "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.' And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God." John 1:32-34
   
• Jesus said that He was the ONLY begotten Son of God and again, just before He left, while praying, "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:5 And John opened his gospel declaring that, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." John 1:1-4 The Word is THE Holy Spirit, that which gives life but cannot be seen.

THERE IS NO THIRD PERSON OF ANY GODHEAD. Those who say there is are giving voice to Hinduism's pantheon of a trinity.

///

It means just what it says --
Christ being encumbered by the human form can't be with us in person.
But He sends His representative (one like Himself) "another comforter". Christ would represent Himself BY or (THROUGH) the Holy Spirit.
I have no problems understanding that -- for I know that Christ knows the mind of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit knows the mind of Christ. When one member of the Godhead is with us -- it represents all three as personally involved. After all we serve ONE God, in three persons.
Not as James suggests -- three different "gods" --



Yes, the Holy Spirit represents Christ and the Father.
Ina finite way we could say it's the same as saying, "Kland would represent Himself at the celebration by his son (first giving his son all the information he wanted his son to share) -- Of course the unity of the Godhead is far more above human figures

Christ represented the Father saying "all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you." John 15:15...(16) he shall take of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.
The Holy Spirit represents Christ; " Jesus says in John "16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you.



The verses in John clearly shows three. (yet all three work as a perfect unity of ONE)
|Remember Christ came in the Father's name, in like manner the Holy Spirit comes in Christ's name (actually it is the same name as Matthew points out -- "in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". (Matt. 28:19)
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So the Holy Spirit comes in Christ's name and teaches people about Christ and brings Christ's teachings into focus in our minds.

The Holy Spirit {John 16:13} " will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, ... [u]he shall testify of me:[u/]

So in John we have ANOTHER comforter (yes Jesus is our comforter) and the Holy Spirit is ANOTHER comforter (one like Jesus)
The Holy doe NOT talk about Himself
He testifies of Christ.

Seems pretty plain and clear!

[quote=James Peterson]
[*]Jesus said that He was the ONLY begotten Son of God and again, just before He left, while praying, "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." John 17:5 And John opened his gospel declaring that, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." John 1:1-4 The Word is THE Holy Spirit, that which gives life but cannot be seen.[/list]

THERE IS NO THIRD PERSON OF ANY GODHEAD. Those who say there is are giving voice to Hinduism's pantheon of a trinity.

Greetings again James. I recognize there are questions and objections to this topic, but in terms of dealing with the central issue, I find it helpful to examine from Scripture what it means when it talks about Jesus "proceeding from the Father." That and "only begotten" are two, commonly misunderstood terms

God: The Holy Spirit: Part 2

A closer look at the texts involved does show THREE, not two entities. I imagine people will debate well into eternity about the exact nature of same; but the whole point of all scripture on the topic is so that we dont make that mistake regarding trying to make scripture say what we think "must be" the very nature/physical make-up of Deity. All we can know is there are THREE. I have some more comments, but have to go for now. May God bless the reading of His Word on this most important subject.

IT is SDA who say they worship THREE gods and like Hindus (who have such a pantheon) seek to slyly palm their pantheon off by saying it is about THREE manifestations of one god.

///

May I remind you that it was John who opened his gospel declaring that, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." John 1:1-4 The Word is THE Holy Spirit, that which gives life but cannot be seen.

If ALL things were created THROUGH the Word (i.e. THE Holy Spirit, aka Jesus Christ) then it must mean as Jesus Himself said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner." John 5:19 So making Our Father in heaven, the ONLY TRUE GOD.

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, [O Father,] the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." John 17:3

THE Holy Spirit is and has a definite form as Jesus Christ.

///

Greetings James, as I mentioned before, the problem, (one of them) with what you are posting here is all of the "ifs" and the "must means..." There is no solid line of scriptural reasoning for sometimes saying "the word is the holy spirit," "The Holy spirit is Jesus;"etc etc I mean, which is it? None of those scriptures actually say what you are claiming them to.

The plain Bible facts for this subject are very clear in scripture: The Three Personalities of "The Eternal Godhead" each equally serve the other two, and all THREE equally defer to one another in their ministry to all people from all times. The Son says what He hears from The Father, (John 12:49-50), the Father witnesses to, and glorifies The Son, (John 8:16-18, John 8:50, John 8:54), both The Father & The Son honor The Holy Spirit by commissioning Him to speak in their name: (John 14:16, John 14:26), and The Holy Spirit honors The Father & The Son as THEIR ADVOCATE (paraklete) in our hearts to lift up Jesus & Him crucified. (see John 15:26)

There is a clear line of scriptural reasoning for what I am posting here; and The Holy Spirit does speak EXPRESSLY in these latter day times that many will be seduced by the doctrines of demons. It is really important to know God Exactly as He presents Himself in scripture - not according to our "private interpretation" "must be's" If we have to resort to "must be" instead of "the Bible says" then it quite simply, CAN'T BE.


For more scripture reference on what I am saying: The Spirit Speaks Expressly: 1 Tim 4:1

So then, the Comforter (THE Holy Spirit) is Jesus Christ. And Mat. 28:20b agrees perfectly: " ... and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen." But how is Jesus with us always? Through the ministry of His angels as Heb. 1:14 tells us plainly: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?"

It is evident therefore that THE Holy Spirit was manifested in the definite human form of Jesus of Nazareth, for man was made in the image and likeness of God, as it is written in Gen. 1.

///

Greetings again James Another problem I see in what you are saying has been spelled out, very evidently:

Your claim: Jesus was the "manifestation" of God The Spirit

Jesus does not agree with you. He specifically states ANOTHER Comforter, not the same Comforter. Its about context and place; NOT SUBSTANCE of any of The Three.

The claim Of Scripture; and of Christ, Himself: The Holy Spirit is/was ANOTHER Comforter." "Another cannot possibly mean "the same One. Thats why its called "another." Its impossible to be mistaken on that point.

I find that one really interesting thing can be learned by looking at how the different Bible versions choose to word things here.

The KJV says it like this:



If we were to go with the view point that your post suggests here, then we would have to concede that the Scripture does contradict itself, which I would recommend is NOT the case at all. Why would Jesus in one place say ANOTHER COMFORTER," and then in Genesis, essentially contradict that, in order to support your theory here? Does it make sense to you that Jesus would do something like that?

Now when we look at the NET version of this same verse, it brings out one point that is right on par with other scripture context and modalities: I wish to make here:



Paraclete is actually not an easy word to translate in English here-in fact there is no one single word in the English language that would cover it properly, and therefore, ANOTHER ADVOCATE is certainly appropriate here. When Jesus ascended to heaven (another reason He is not physically here, (see Heb 7:25, etc), Jesus is in heaven pleading "My blood, Father," and ANOTHER Comforter,, God The Holy Spirit is here with us to guide, strengthen and comfort us. The thing to remember about the Ministry of The Spirit is that God the Spirit was/is "ANOTHER ADVOCATE" who advocated for Jesus to us; while Jesus advocates to the Father in The heavenly, for us. When we adhere to only the revealed context here, it is quite simple and no need to to try struggling with using phrases such as "it must be..." in describing some alleged preconceived physical make up o r Substance of any Deity

The Helper: Jesus Favorite Name for the Holy Spirit

Obviously he thought of the Third Person of the Trinity as the Holy Spirit because of His title. But is a title the same thing as a name? The title "Father" for the First Person of the Trinity is designated a name (see John 17:1). This was Jesus' favorite name for God. The Second Person of the Trinity is Jesus: "You shall call His name Jesus" (Matt. 1:21). Yet, Jesus' favorite name for Himself was "Son of Man," a title He used more than any other.

The name or title "Spirit" is used approximately 500 times in Scripture in reference to the Third Person, and the combined term "Holy Spirit" is used approximately 100 times. The expression "Holy Ghost," used 91 times in the King James Version, should be translated Holy Spirit.

In my next post I will address your ideas of Gen chapter 1. I have some remarks re Heb 1:14 for my next post here, plus a comment or two on your claims re Gen, chapter 1


James; we are brothers in Christ. I appreciate your earnest desire to find truth and stay with it I look forward to more correspondence with you on this and learning more things I didnt know before May the Lord bless you and keep you, and make His Face to shine upon you.

Your brother IN Christ, David

https://lightintheclouds.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/IMG_0587wwwwbible.jpg

* *
That is a good summary of one of the wonderful works of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit takes the deeper meaning of our prayers, "for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." and takes them to Jesus.

Christ, our Mediator, AND the Holy Spirit are constantly interceding in our behalf, but there is a difference in their work -- the Spirit's intercession is not the same as Christ who presents His blood, shed from the foundation of the world; the Spirit works upon our hearts, drawing out prayers and repentance, enabling us to sense our great needs and claim God's promises, and drawing out our, utterances of praise and thanksgiving. He then translates them to express our great need and inner most desires for righteousness and our utterances of praise and thanksgiving, and sends those prayers to Jesus, Jesus, as our Meditator before the Father, mixes in His merits and the blood of cleansing, and presents our prayers as sweet incense before the Father. (See Romans 8:26-27 and Rev. 8:3-4)

Thank you; and yes, I agree about that difference in their work. I found a brief commentary about this topic in a book called "The Faith That I Live By:

A Personal God



God is a Spirit; yet He is a personal being; for so He has revealed Himself. {FLB 40.2}

As a personal being, God has revealed Himself in His Son. The outshining of the Father's glory, "and the express image of his person," Jesus, as a personal Saviour, came to the world. As a personal Saviour He ascended on high. As a personal Saviour He intercedes in the heavenly courts. {FLB 40.3}

I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, "If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist." {FLB 40.4}

The theory that God is an essence pervading all nature is received by many who profess to believe the Scriptures; but, however beautifully clothed, this theory is a most dangerous deception. . . . If God is an essence pervading all nature, then He dwells in all men; and in order to attain holiness, man has only to develop the power within him. These theories [pantheism, etc.], followed to their logical conclusion, . . . do away with the necessity for the atonement and make man his own savior. . . Those who accept them are in great danger of being led finally to look upon the whole Bible as a fiction. . . . {FLB 40.5}

The revelation of Himself that God has given in His Word is for our study. This we may seek to understand. But beyond this we are not to penetrate. None are to indulge in speculation regarding His nature. Here silence is eloquence. The Omniscient One is above discussion. {FLB 40.6}