A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW.
Posted By: Charity
A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/23/19 11:38 PM
Here's a dream from 1850 that few Adventist know about. The dream is from a letter written by Ellen White to the wife of Joseph Bates:
I will now write you a dream which I had about one week ago. I dreamed of being with Bro.Rhodes and James in a wagon. We were to pass a bridge covered with water. While passing it, I was much frightened for the water came into the body of the wagon. I had my babe in my arms. I came near letting him fall into the water through fright. Brother Rhodes assured me a number of times that there was no danger and that we must necessarily pass through that water that covered the bridge.
After we had passed over the bridge through the water, my eyes were fixed upon something in the air that looked very strange to me. I saw angels marching through the air. They had light mantles on their shoulders that reached to their feet. And they were singing in solemn clear voices, For the great day of His wrath has come and who shall be able to stand. Their voices rung all through the air.
Brother Rhodes began to shout with a loud voice, "And shall I see Him whom my soul loveth?" James was counting the angels, and I stood trembling with fear lest I should not be able to stand.
My mind ran back to my past life. I could see in it many wrongs and I could see no way that I could be saved. Just then Satan came where I was and said to me, "You are now my property. You are lost and you will go with me to the dark regions."
My feelings I cannot describe to you. I was filled with anguish unutterable. I knew that Jesus was all my joy and to be separated from Him was more than I could endure. And at the same time, I felt unworthy to be with the lovely Jesus. While I was thus in awful perplexity, one of the angels that was marching through the air, came where I was and said to Satan, "She is not your property. She has been redeemed unto God by the precious blood of Jesus. She is the purchase of His blood and He will save her." Then the enemy fled and my heart was filled to overflowing with thankfulness and praise to God.
I saw the saints, that their garments would change and they would receive the mantle and their faces would light up as they would meet the angels in the air. I looked around and saw some sleeping. O how I felt as I saw some who now profess to be with us asleep as I saw them. I said, "Poor souls. They have heard of Jesus coming and that the day of His wrath was very soon to come, but as time went on a little longer than they expected it would, they have lost their interest. Stupidity has crept over them and now they slumber never to awake again. They ought to have watched and then they would have seen the angels."
This dream has made a great impression on my mind. I hope it will cause me to double my diligence and to make my calling and election sure. If ever there was need of watching, it is now. Satan's host is arrayed against us and we must have the whole armor buckled tight about us or the darts of the enemy will hit us. Above all, we must take the shield of faith whereby we shall be able to quench the fiery darts of the enemy. Satan has great power and we must have living, abiding faith in God or the powers of darkness will get the ascendancy over us and Satan will triumph. We will be free and we must be free in order to glorify God.
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/23/19 11:53 PM
About this dream I have a few questions:
1) What do you all think the bridge covered with water represents?
2) Why was Ellen White so fearful but the other two were not?
3) Why was James counting the angels?
4) If the great day of God's wrath had come, how could the the drowsy saints not know it? Don't the unwise virgins wake up during the day of wrath?
5) At what point in the dream did the day of wrath come? When they first started crossing the river, while they were crossing, or after they crossed?
6) What are your thoughts on the mantles?
Posted By: dedication
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/24/19 04:38 AM
Very interesting dream. Thanks for sharing, Charity.
It's found in 16 MR page 171.
Here are just some thoughts going through my mind:
1. A bridge -- a stable connection between two otherwise disjointed destinations.
Seems to symbolize Christ our Savior and His gift of salvation.
2. Water -- it can refer to cleansing
but it can also refer to doubts and worries. The water is hiding the bridge and it takes a lot of faith to move forward.
It could refer to a flood of ideas that cause people to loose faith in Christ's ability to save us. The currents could separate us from the bridge and drown us if they are not resisted. The sleepers, may have floated off the bridge and never reached the other side.
3. Why was Ellen fearful but not the other two?
Firstly, since Ellen is telling the incident, she is describing her feelings. We really don't know how the other two felt. They may have been scared too, but kept it inside and spoke encouraging words building their own faith and the faith of those around them. Ellen's fear also appears it had something to do with her sense of unworthiness. She was thinking she was too bad for God to carry her through.
4. The great day of wrath was announced AFTER they had crossed the bridge!
Crossing the bridge through the water seems to have been necessary preparation to be able to stand in the day of wrath. It enabled them to "see" the angels.
5. The sleepers couldn't see the angels --
So meeting the angel's couldn't be the second coming when every eye shall see
6. The mantels seem to be the robe of Christ's righteousness? -- being sealed perhaps ??? Reminds one of the robe of light that clothed Adam and Eve before sin. The sleepers don't receive one.
7. Why does James count the angels-- are they our guardian angels? Was he counting to see if there was one for each of the believers?
8. The marching angels -- an assurance that God's angels are there during the time when "the wrath comes" -- satan does get through and plagues Ellen with thoughts of doubt, (Jacob's time of trouble?) but then an angel steps in and she is assured of salvation.
Just some thoughts -- I'm sure there's a lot more to think about.
Jesus is the way --
Faith in Him will get us to the other side.
Satan will do his best to wash us off the bridge, and even when we reach the "day of wrath" and are seeing "the angels" he will assail us with doubts and fears.
But all who have clung to Christ can have the assurance -- "She/he has been redeemed unto God by the precious blood of Jesus. She/he is the purchase of His blood and He will save her/him."
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/24/19 11:48 PM
Thanks a lot dear sister. I'm still thinking about it.
About James counting the angels one thought that came to my mind was this: They had mantles of light for the saints, one mantle per angel and James wanted to see if there were 144,000 of them in order to confirm they were the sealing angels, each with a mantle for one of the 144K.
I've got some other thoughts about the elements of the dream but I'm hoping more people will give it some study and share here.
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/26/19 11:18 AM
OK, I'll share a few thoughts on these questions below. Tell me what you all think.
About this dream I have a few questions:
1) What do you all think the bridge covered with water represents?
2) Why was Ellen White so fearful but the other two were not?
3) Why was James counting the angels?
4) If the great day of God's wrath had come, how could the the drowsy saints not know it? Don't the unwise virgins wake up during the day of wrath?
5) At what point in the dream did the day of wrath come? When they first started crossing the river, while they were crossing, or after they crossed?
6) What are your thoughts on the mantles?
Going over a bridge submerged in a flowing river is a life-threatening situation. James and Ellen White and Elder Rhodes were all leaders in the church when this dream was given. They were types of the end-time church that faces the life and death issues at the mark of the beast. Elder Rhodes said it was necessary to go through the water over the bridge because there is no other option; the church and the beast will face off and do battle, there is no escaping it. A flood of water will issue from the mouth of the dragon to sweep away the woman but the earth will come to the help of the woman and swallow the dragon's flood. But is this the end of the battle or the beginning?
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/26/19 11:24 AM
The reason Ellen White was especially alarmed was that she represents the woman of Revelation 12, the special object of Satan's wrath. She has the manchild, her babe in her arms. In her fright she almost drops him in the water; the child almost falls into the floods from the dragon's mouth but she holds on in God's strength and the child is preserved. She, James and Elder Rhodes make it safely out of the floods of Babylon and flee into the wilderness where they find physical and spiritual shelter and nourishment. But is the war over or just starting?
Posted By: Theophilus
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/26/19 06:38 PM
No, she is not the woman in Rev 12. You have a whole slew of things that don' point to her. 12 stars, 1260 days, etc. She never said she was either. The Rev 12 church is very important in prophecy.In Rev 12, the baby is Jesus.
Looks like to me from the dream that she was worried about her salvation being sure and was reassured by the angels. If water is trials and troubles , that's fine. There may be times our faith is tested. the baby could be the newness of life, a promise she holds dear, but was fearful of losing, 2 Cor 5:17 "If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. "
Are you a new Adventist? Have you never studied the time prophecies? Ellen White is not mentioned in Rev like that. This reminds me of the Catholic teaching that the woman in Rev 12 is Mary. You need to be careful what you pen. Others read this, and you could be steering someone the wrong way
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/26/19 09:44 PM
No, she is not the woman in Rev 12. You have a whole slew of things that don' point to her. 12 stars, 1260 days, etc. She never said she was either. The Rev 12 church is very important in prophecy.In Rev 12, the baby is Jesus.
I agree with the Adventist view that the woman fled into the wilderness during the dark ages and that the manchild represents Christ.
But the prophecy applies mainly, primarily to the future doesn't it? In Chapter 13 the beast drives faithful Christians into isolation politically and physically by putting global sanctions on anyone who doesn't have the mark. The call to come out of Babylon is a call to the wilderness where the church is forced to flee and fend for herself but God fends for her.
Posted By: dedication
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/27/19 03:18 AM
I see the dream as having deep spiritual meaning, not as a reinterpretation of Revelation 12 as a whole, however, I agree it is about the last verse of that chapter -- the solemn truth that the dragon is very wroth with the last remnant of commandment keeping believers who cling with faith to Jesus.
All three in that wagon -- Bro. Rhodes, James and Ellen White -- are representatives of the remnant of believers spoken of in Rev. 12:17. That "remnant of her seed" (Christ's true church) represents all faithful believers facing the end time situation.
I tend to agree with Theophilus that the dream represents the testing of faith, the child is the newness of life believers have found in Christ which Satan seeks to sweep away with his floods (those floods include a host of faith destroying theories, philosophies, doubts, devices, ridicule, etc, etc, not just persecution)
I see the dream more in light of Jesus parable of two house builders and how they stood up when the floods came. The floods will come -- who will be able to stand.
That's the big question in the dream -- who shall be able to stand.
In Jesus parable both houses represent believers building for eternity.
One builder went deep for the foundation -- the rock in parable, the bridge in the dream.
Notice the faith of the three in the wagon that the bridge would support them in spite of the water.
The other builder represented a surface believer, his house did fine when there was no flood, but was washed away when the floods came. He didn't have a foundation.
The important point --
How sure is our foundation, our anchor in the Lord NOW?
When in our present lives trouble and trials, heartaches and betrayals come, when people try to tear apart our belief in Christ's saving power, are our feet planted steadfastly on Christ the only bridge from this life to the next? Are we holding on to the newness of life Christ has given us?
When the last crises hits we will need that assurance and patient endurance to stand. But it is in how we related to situations before the crises that this assurance and patient endurance is formed.
Posted By: James Peterson
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/27/19 04:22 PM
I also had a dream and was wondering if anyone could help me out with the interpretation.
In my dream, I was by the Grand Canyon on the western side. I was on the tip of the horseshoe skywalk, looking over the heights and depths of the spectacular landscape, like I was floating above it. Suddenly, there came a man walking towards me. He was obviously poor and wretched: in rags, unkept, confused, troubled, anxious, worried and fetching a huge bag on his shoulders (followed by others plagued with the same condition). In compassion, I offered to help, but that man (and they all with one accord) rushed at me and tried to push me over. But I was saved by the rails. Then I awoke.
This dream has weighed heavily on my mind and I was wondering if there be any that might be able to help.
Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, 27:9
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/28/19 11:50 AM
I also had a dream and was wondering if anyone could help me out with the interpretation.
In my dream, I was by the Grand Canyon on the western side. I was on the tip of the horseshoe skywalk, looking over the heights and depths of the spectacular landscape, like I was floating above it. Suddenly, there came a man walking towards me. He was obviously poor and wretched: in rags, unkept, confused, troubled, anxious, worried and fetching a huge bag on his shoulders (followed by others plagued with the same condition). In compassion, I offered to help, but that man (and they all with one accord) rushed at me and tried to push me over. But I was saved by the rails. Then I awoke.
This dream has weighed heavily on my mind and I was wondering if there be any that might be able to help.
Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, 27:9
James, you've posted many times here, almost 1,200 times and you've read many of the threads. Now that you've had a chance to examine for yourself the reasons for our faith, what do you think about the inspiration of Ellen White? Are her dreams and visions, counsels and reproof inspired? If not, do you agree that the final church will have the spirit of prophecy among them? Do you view yourself as an Adventist, one who expects Christ's soon return? What group would you say has the spirit of prophecy among them?
Posted By: dedication
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 10/29/19 09:42 AM
James, it sounds similar to John Bunyon's "Pilgrim's Progress".
So let me draw some parallels.
In Pilgrim's progress, poor Christian is leaving the city of Destruction and trying to travel the narrow road to the kingdom. He starts out in rather sad condition with a big load on his back, doesn't know the way, and has lots of worries and troubles, falling into a swamp of despondency, confused. Much like your fellow travelers. On his journey he meets lots of people who "try to help" a lot of them offer relief that just gets him into greater trouble.
But one helps him out of the swamp and directs him through the narrow gate and on to the cross.
Traveling the narrow way without Christ and with the burden of unforgiven, sin, indeed is a dreary and rather hopeless task. The traveler needs Christ. But what happens when Christian finds Christ and the cross? His burden of sin rolls away! He can reckon himself dead to sin and alive in Christ. He is given "newness of life" -- in the story it's an actual certificate he is to cherish. But this is not the end of the story-- it's just beginning. -- what does he do next?
No, he doesn't go back to the city of destruction -- he continues on the narrow path to the kingdom. He still meets a lot of trouble and temptations (even Apollo himself comes against him) also more people trying to "help" but their motive is to get him off the path. But he is not left to struggle alone there are heavenly helpers as well.
In parallel to the OP vision -- as long as he stays "on the bridge" or path (anchored in Christ) in spite of all the swirling water trying to make him drift off, he is OK, But a couple times he is swept off, and it is only by grace that he got back on the path (bridge) and continued the journey.
One of the last hurdles in Bunyan's allegory, is actually a very pleasant thing. A beautiful place where Christian can rest and sleep and fall into a stupor of feeling content.
It took some effort for him to rise up and continue the journey.
The meaning of your allegory or dream -- depends on what kind of helper you wish to be?
The other travelers obviously didn't see your help, as helping. What they needed was to spend some time at the foot of the cross, in order to get rid of their burden of sin and travel on with Christ to the eternal kingdom.
The part that troubles me is that you were floating off the path above the canyon.
Interesting that you were "saved by the rails" -- it seems the fellow travelers pulled you back so you wouldn't float away and pushed you against the rails.
I tend to think of the "fence" or "rails" as God's commandments, that show us right from wrong. It seems they kept you from floating off and falling into the canyon below, so you could continue the journey on the narrow way, kept there by the grace of Christ.
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 11/04/19 11:58 AM
The reason Ellen White was especially alarmed was that she represents the woman of Revelation 12, the special object of Satan's wrath. She has the manchild, her babe in her arms. In her fright she almost drops him in the water; the child almost falls into the floods from the dragon's mouth but she holds on in God's strength and the child is preserved. She, James and Elder Rhodes make it safely out of the floods of Babylon and flee into the wilderness where they find physical and spiritual shelter and nourishment. But is the war over or just starting?
Let me run this thought by you all. I've been wondering about this for several months: The manchild of Revelation 12 is born just before the woman flees into the wilderness. In the first application, Christ is born and about 500 years later the church flees into the wilderness for 1260 years until 1798. In the end-times this is repeated. The manchild is a figure of the 144K. They appear at the beginning of and are sealed during the latter rain in Revelation 7 and 14. They are caught up to God spiritually and are seated with Christ in heavenly places. Just before the three angels' messages are given in power they are pictured in Revelation 14 as standing before the throne with no guile in their mouths. They are the manchild, the spiritual Marines that spearhead the final assault giving the 3AM in great power. Others, symbolized by the woman who flees into the wilderness follow their lead and the church of God is gathered into the wilderness.
In the dream, when the three leaders of the church are crossing an overflowing bridge the flood waters almost sweep away the manchild but instead of drowning him, the very same waters (troubles) bring revival and raise the child aloft to dwell with Christ in heavenly places. The angels with mantles on the other side of this testing ordeal have the mantles of Elijah ready for those who pass the test and who remain faithful. James, a man of faith understand this and knowing that the number of the angels is very significant, 144K, he confirms it by counting the number of angels with mantles. What do you all think?
Posted By: Charity
Re: A Little Known End-Time Dream from EGW. - 11/04/19 12:13 PM
The parallel to the manchild of Revelation 12 is given in the message of God through Moses to Pharaoh: "Thus saith the LORD, Israel [the twelve tribes of the 144K, called the first fruits] is my son, even my firstborn [the manchild, the first fruits]: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn." Exo 4:22, 23.
The same warning given to Egypt of the impending plagues is given by the manchild to spiritual Egypt - "If any man worship the beast . . . " he will receive the plagues. But the final warning is stronger. Not only will the firstborn be slain, the fathers will be as well - anyone found worshiping the beast.