Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important?

Posted By: Daryl

Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/05/05 11:59 PM

People don't seem to be dressing up for church like they used to, therefore, is dressing up for church really necessary and important?
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/06/05 12:22 AM

Necessary? Probobly not.

A good idea? Yeah.

I always want to look my best to meet God in His house. But some may not feel that way or may not have the means to do so.
Posted By: Tom

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/06/05 03:21 AM

Our first elder doesn't think so. It seems like a lack of respect to me not to.

There's so many other things to worry about, I don't make a bid deal about it, however.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/06/05 03:37 AM

"Dressing up" is a cultural and personal thing. We all have our own ideas what it means. For some it means a 3 piece suit, wing tip shoes, tie, tie clasp, etc. For others it means dress slacks, tieless shirt and walking/hiking shoes (since the person wearing them walks to church many times)

Should we dress nicely (modest, clean and neat) for church? IMHO yes, as a sign of respect for God and our fellow worshipers.

Redfog
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/06/05 05:04 PM

How would one dress for an audience with the president in the White House? Also, if you dress nice for a wedding, why does God deserve less? On the other hand, we must remember that we are worshiping God, not having a fashion show. We are goint to meet the King of the Universe, and should dress adequately for that occasion, but our clothes should not call attention to ourselves.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/06/05 10:22 PM

Therefore, is there a general expectation on how we should dress up for church?
Posted By: Stephanie Suranyi

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/06/05 11:57 PM

What would any of you say to the following situations?

1. A young woman just lost everything she owns, all but a few items of clothing, none of which are what most people would consider "church clothes." She has a pair of clean blue jeans, but there are small holes in the knees. She has a couple of shirts, but they have stains on them. He shoes are ripped, her sockes have holes in them. She wants to attend church on Sabbath morning. She is staying with her cousin, who lives in a different town. How would you treat this young woman if she entered your church?


2. A truck driver is stopped for the weekend. He normally sleeps in his truck to save on expenses. He has a nice pair of jeans and a flannel shirt (it is wintertime) but they are not ironed, so they are wrinkled, because his space is limited and he doesn't have the extra money available to iron his clothes on Friday, so they will look nice on Sabbath morning. What is your reaction when he walks through the door?

3. A businessman is traveling over the weekend. He has a nice suit packed away for Sabbath. He checks into his hotel, but he has just enough time to check in, then eat before the Sabbath hours start. Not enough time to get his suit pressed for Sabbath. He arrives at your church in his wrinkled, but clean suit. How do you react?

Now, suppose that they all arrived together? What if we found out that they are all related, but the cousin mentioned in scenario one has a very small living space, so the business had to get a hotel room because there was nowhere for him to sleep? And the trucker slept in his truck because, 1. no room in the cousin's place and 2. he got in so late that he didn't want to disturb anyone.

Would you treat any of these people differently? Of course, you wouldn't necessarily know the various scenarios until you spoke with the people. What would be your first reaction? Would you change your opinion once you knew what was going on?

I think it is important to dress in the BEST YOU HAVE! Not necessarily wearing THE BEST clothes, but wearing the best you have. And, I think we should reserve judgment because we don't know EVERY situation! Don't assume that someone is being disrespectful because he/she isn't wearing a nice suit or dress. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Besides, how do you know that you aren't being TESTED when these people come for a visit????
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 12:47 AM

Daryl: "Therefore, is there a general expectation on how we should dress up for church?"

My own general expectation is that we should normally dress modestly, cleanly, healthily and neatly for church. We may or may not dress nicer than in everyday life.

Or are you asking the specifics of what we should be wearing to church? I think that would be a impossible question to answer. Depending on the type of church, location, average age of the members, season etc. There are areas of the world where going to church barefooted is normal, in some very hot non air conditioned churches in the US shorts on men are normal (or so I've been told). A liberal church will dress more casual than will a conservative one. If you walk to church, as I often do, then you will be wearing nice walking shoes. If you are taking part in the service you might dress differently than if you are sitting in the pews. The list of variables is endless.

Redfog
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 12:50 AM

Remembering somewhere that the clothes God cares about are the ones He Himself provides to everyone for free. To be honest, we are dressing up not for God but for the other members of the congregation. God asks for mercy and compassion.

/Thomas
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 02:38 AM

Let me present another scenario:

I go to church in the same casual clothes I use at home. I have better clothes to wear, however, I choose to wear the same casual clothes I wear at home.

With the above scenario in mind, is it, therefore, ok for me to wear the same casual clothes at church that I wear around the house, or does it matter?
Posted By: John H.

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 03:20 AM

"Many need instruction as to how they should appear in the assembly for worship on the Sabbath. They are not to enter the presence of God in the common clothing worn during the week. All should have a special Sabbath suit, to be worn when attending service in God's house. While we should not conform to worldly fashions, we are not to be indifferent in regard to our outward appearance. We are to be neat and trim, though without adornment. The children of God should be pure within and without."
{6T 355.2}

That testimony is sufficiently plain, seems to me. The only question is, do we obey it or not.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 04:22 AM

Part of the quote John provided says, "They are not to enter the presence of God in the common clothing worn during the week. All should have a special Sabbath suit, to be worn when attending service in God's house."

What then is the common clothing?

What especially is a special Sabbath suit?
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 04:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
What then is the common clothing ?

Clothing worn during the week.

quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
What especially is a special Sabbath suit?

A particular set of clothing designated solely for use on Sabbath for church.
Posted By: Tom

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 06:21 AM

So if you have more than one suit, you can't wear more than one on Sabbath? And if you wear one on Sabbath, you can't wear it on any other occasion, even if you only have one?
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 06:49 AM

I imagine you could ware different ones, but they would need to be ones set aside for Sabbath. For your other situation, I guess you would have to decide what is more important: meeting with God or some other event.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 06:52 AM

There are those who in their jobs must dress up with suit, tie and wing tips. They can't get much more dressed up than that. On the otherhand someone who is a farmer, beekeeper or construction worker does not have to dress up very much to be better dressed than during the week.

Redfog
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 07:24 AM

I do not think that Ellen White was saying that we need a Tux; she seems to be advocating something that is special for church. Therefore, someone who dresses up for work would not need to find something more dressy, just something special for church.
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 10:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by John H.:
We are to be neat and trim, though without adornment. The children of God should be pure within and without."
{6T 355.2}

That testimony is sufficiently plain, seems to me. The only question is, do we obey it or not. [/QB]

Another part of Johns quote, which somehow seems to be less often appealed to. There goes the tie again. [Big Grin]

/Thomas
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 05:28 PM

It sounds like you're on a crusade Thomas. Do you take dontions? [Animated Laughter]
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 06:33 AM

I asked in an earlier post: What especially is a special Sabbath suit?

I received the following response from Dave Hoover: A particular set of clothing designated solely for use on Sabbath for church.

Could that be clothing set aside for Sabbath use that isn't necessarily a suit for a man and a dress for a woman?
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 06:53 AM

I would say so. As long as it is set aside for church and displays good taste it should be fine.
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 07:55 PM

Well, not on a "tie crusade"... I would rather it be a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Jesus. Ties just happened to lend themselves nicely to these clothing/adornment threads.

As for donations, I wont ask for any. I must try to learn to trust to God for my means. Which is much easier said than done in my experience this far.

/Thomas
Posted By: Tom

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 09:06 PM

I didn't understand the EGW statement in the same way at all. How far would you take such a principle? Would you separate ties? Shirts? Shoes? Socks? Where do you stop?

I think she is saying that we shouldn't worship with common work clothes which would not be appropriate for church, not that clothing worn on Sabbath cannot be worn on other occasions, or vice versa.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 09:45 PM

Tom: "I think she is saying that we shouldn't worship with common work clothes which would not be appropriate for church, not that clothing worn on Sabbath cannot be worn on other occasions, or vice versa."

Tom I think your post says it well.

Thomas if you are starting a crusade against ties...where can I sign up or make a donation against the evil, oxygen robbing, adorning, worthless, expensive, obnoxious...nooses? [Smile]

Redfog
Posted By: Davros

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/07/05 10:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Redfog:
expensive

In some cases anyway [Wink]
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 12:13 AM

Ok Dave, for you we can make an exception in the expensive catagory, but I didn't notice you objecting to my other discriptions so I will just assume you concur completly [Wink]

Redfog
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 02:55 AM

What did Jesus and the Disciples do for Sabbath? Change there clothes to "Sabbath Clothes"?
Posted By: Will

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 03:10 AM

Dan on the Beach,
Obviously they didnt change into "Sabbath Clothes". They were in the middle east, and wearing robes(for lack of a better word), and they were not wealthy, so what they had on was perfectly fine. In other words, use whatcha got [Smile]
I dont have a suit, or anything fancy like that, but I wear the best I can cause its a special time I have with God.
God Bless,
Will
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 05:38 AM

Amen Will!
I do not own a suite either. Although I could get one at one of our many second hand stores. I think I will get one soon though. They have very good looking clothes for very little money. I wear about 90% used clothing. Most of my clothes are very expensive if they were bought new, but I am to frugal (cheap) to buy new, when almost new or new can be bought for $2-$4 each at the thrift store.
-I wear clean and good styled clothing to church but I have never made it a point to set aside clothes just for sabbath use. I would be hard pressed to find more than 1 or 2 people in oyur congregation of about 45-55 that would do so, and the only 2 that I can think of are about 85 years old!
-Happy Sabbath, and I am again thankful that He looks upon the hearts,and not upon our clothing. [Smile]
Posted By: Cheri Fritz

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 03:13 PM

Greetings Everyone,

First, dress reform is about honoring our Lord and not us honoring our own opinion on what is good and not good.

Dress reform is for setting a standard, to raise the banner high for the Lord. It requires both male and female to submit themselves before the Lord even in dress.

We (my boys and I) have adopted wearing long sleeves within the Church. Which means either we wear sweaters or jackets. All our clothes are modest and are meant not to bring attention to ourselves. I wear dresses that cover my knees into the middle of my calves.

When have the opportunity to attend church, we are coming together because God has called us. So because this is His place and His calling, we honor Him according to His good will. All the while remembering this is the precious Savior that died for us.

Pehaps it might be wise to learn the dress reform first before deciding what types of clothes to wear and when to wear them.

Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz

=======

Removed the green font colour as nothing was showing up in the post. I hope this solves the problem. - Daryl [Smile]

[ October 08, 2005, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]
Posted By: Jeff

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 04:20 PM

When I first joined the church I did not wear a suit. After some time I was made a deacon. I always seemed to get sour looks attended by low whispering from a certain section of the church when it was my turn to take up offering. After hearing a few side comments—you know, the kind that are not directed at you, but are really meant for you—I decided that the “looks” were disapproval for my church attire. I had been meaning to buy a suit anyway, so I finally did.

It’s amazing how a simple thing like wearing different kinds of cloth rearranged in different ways can make sour people smile. I sometimes think we say we’re dressing up for God, but we’re often really dressing up because that’s what's expected.

Jeff
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/09/05 06:22 AM

In our church we had a rule that said if you were taking up the offering you had to wear a tie. One time when I was head deacon I asked someone to help with the offering and he said he didn't own a tie. I told him that was OK it was no longer the rule. I took a little heat over that but from then on we were able to get others involved with the service, especially the young people who dressed more casually. And then before too long we actually started using women to help with the offering! Ooo ahhh. Now for better or worse we don't even pass a plate on Sabbath mornings.

Redfog
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/09/05 06:47 AM

Thoughts on Sabbath dress. In Mrs Whites day there was a bigger difference between Sabbath clothes and common every day clothes. If you've ever scrutinized photos from her era you will see that, at least in rural areas, people were very dirty. A farmer might wear the same pair of pants several days in a row even with manure on them. He might only take a bath once or twice a week as well. For Adventist to take a bath and get it finished before sundown on Friday was a big chore, heating the water on a wood stove and dumping it in the tub and this was done many times for a large family. Good clothes required much care to wash by hand, dry on a line and iron with a stove heated iron. I think EGW would have said to set aside clothes for Sabbath because it was such a chore to get those clothes presentable. Life was harsh back then before electricity came to the farms. And lets face it our SDA roots were from the simple country folks, not the sophisticated city people with their maids, servants and more modern lifestyle. The good old days were not good by present standards and the old is what you became early from over work.

My 92 year old father talks about coming home from Emmanuel Missionary Collage (now Andrews) to help his dad wire the farm in the late 30's for electricity, and the enormous changes that it made, from indoor plumbing to milking machines to no more sooty oil lamps. The changes it brought made some of what Mrs. White spoke of somewhat out of date. And in the last 50 years even more changes have taken place, like perma press clothes that have further altered the need for special Sabbath clothes.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Redfog
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 09:30 PM

So Red, are you saying that times change? I have been taught that the words of EGW meant what they meant and still have the same meanings that they had when they were first penned...

-I am pleased to live in a region and era that allows for the wardrobe that I have today. When I was a boy, I owned 2 pairs of pants 3 maybe 4 shirts, 1 pair of sneakers, 1 pair of boots, and 1 pair of dress shoes. I am SO GLAD to have access to high quality recycled clothing shops today!
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/08/05 10:54 PM

Dan I believe that Mrs. Whites writings have to be looked at in the context and time frame in which she wrote. Just as we do with the Bible. For instance she says that drugs never heal, well in her day anti-biotic's had not been invented and clearly they do heal. She also said we should not spend money on bicycles. When we look at the time frame in which she wrote that we realize that bikes were an enormously expensive fad. Within a few years the fad had passed and their price had dropped to the point that they had become an inexpensive and healthy form of transportation.

There is however a grave danger of making everything she wrote irrelevant and that process must always be guarded against for it is a dangerous downhill slope. The ideas behind her writings are as relevant today as when she wrote them however some of the details cannot be applied to today's modern technological society.

Redfog
Posted By: Angie Street

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 10/23/05 12:15 AM

Well, back to the topic at hand... I wear a nice skirt and shirt with tights and a pair of low heel shoes. I feel that this outfit is something that is modest and a bit dressy. I don't think that we need to be "dressed to the nines," tho. We should feel like we are going to see our Lord, not like we are trying to outdress everyone else. What we wear to church is what we wear. Are we gonna kick someone outta church just cuz he is not wearing dress clothes like the rest of the people? Are we gonna kick the lady with the mini skirt out, just cuz she isn't dressing modestly? We have to realize that not everyone is raised the exact same way that we were. We all have our own values. If a woman doesn't feel like wearing a dress to church, that's her business. We are all there to worship. Also, there have been times when I have worn JEANS [Eek!] (gasp) to make the people in my family feel more comfortable because THEY don't have nice clothes to wear. It has made a few people go to church with me because "I" made them feel comfortable in what they had. We need to take our eyes off the outward adornment and turn our eyes to Jesus. Now, I do have an issue if a man who wears a suit and tie everyday to work comes to church on Sabbath in jeans and t-shirt. He's not even trying... IMO
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/05/05 05:36 AM

We may not "kick" a person out because of what they are or are not wearing BUT we sure do "talk" about them (please refer to the 9th Commandment). Which is worse, the torn jeans, the miniskirt, the khaki pants and polo shirt, or the judgements that "we" place upon people whom do not wear their dress, or suite and tie????
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/05/05 11:25 AM

Whats wrong with Khaki and polo?
Posted By: Darius

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/05/05 11:09 PM

Sabbath clothes? Interesting. Now, for those who believe, and I don't, that the Sabbath was given to Adam, what kind of clothes would those be? I vote for that kind of Sabbath clothes.
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/05/05 11:21 PM

To make an ironic point based on premises you dont accept yourself? Does this have anything to do with boredom?

/Thomas
Posted By: Darius

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/05/05 11:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by västergötland:
To make an ironic point based on premises you dont accept yourself? Does this have anything to do with boredom?

/Thomas

Boredom at the things that have become "issues" for people waiting for the Second Coming that is 2000 years overdue.
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/06/05 12:35 AM

2000 years overdue. I think youve been on that topic once or twise before... Remind me, why is it overdue?

/Thomas
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/06/05 12:38 AM

Let us not get [Off Topic]

If necessary, begin a new topic instead.
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 11/06/05 03:13 PM

By way of curiosity, this is how the pioneers used to dress.

http://www.aplib.org/Gallery.htm
Posted By: Doug Meister

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/04/05 03:38 AM

Interesting discussion. A man walks into an SDA church wearing dirty smelly messy clothes. People move away from him to get farther away from the smell. He returns the next sabbath but his clothes are clean but wrinkled. This continues week after week - until he looks like everyone else. He may have been homeless or whatever but change did occur.

This reminds me of something that happened to me. I was in S Calif and one Sabbath I thought I'd go to the Redlands Celebration church. At the time I had a Harley-Davidson and my intent was to go there dressed in full Harley regalia. I had genes chain drive wallet, denium jacket filled with pins and patches, no helmet but evil looking goggles. I told people there (decons and elders) that I was just riding by and thought I'd stop in and see what was happening. (Still the truth because I did ride right past and had to turn around and come back.)

I felt so out of place dressed like this when everybody else was all dressed up like typical Adventists. To this day I dont think anyone found out I already was an SDA.

I am in no way advocating celebration style worship. I think it is wrong - but thats a different discussion.
--Ðøug  - 2005.12.3.16.38.31 PT
Posted By: Doug Meister

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/04/05 03:50 AM

Now more to the subject. I was taught by my Mother to always dress up for church. We should look our best for the Lord. Yet Catholics often do not dress up. Where I live and have lived it is just way too hot to wear a suit coat anytime. A coat is only for winter use (and I tollerate a lot of cold air).

So in summer I will wear a sport shirt always with tie and dress slacks. One time I forgot the tie. When seated I looked down and saw nothing to adjust or fiddle with. I gasped. Yikes, I had forgotten to put a tie on. No wonder I got ready so fast.
--Ðøug  - 2005.12.3.16.49.46 PT
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/04/05 06:24 AM

What's with the Catholic statement? and where are the stats or observation footnotes to back this up?
-My wifes Uncle Ray, has been stuying with our local French SDA Church bible worker. I just celebrated Sabbath with the French Church this Sabbath and I was so pleased to see Uncle Ray worshiping with us. He was wearing clean blue jeans with a nice flanel longsleeve shirt. Should "we" the church have asked him to wear dress pants shirt and tie for the next time he comes to Church???
-This whole issue of playing dressup is a crock. WHYWHYWHY do we insist on looking constantly on the OUTWARD appearence???
Posted By: Will

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/04/05 07:32 AM

Beachbum,
I think we can all agree with being able to give the best you have to the Lord, whether that be your best pair of jeans and nicest shirt, or ccleanest looking suit and tie.
If generally speaking a person does not care what they wear, lets leave that to God who will impress their hearts to give Him their best.
God Bless,
Will
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/04/05 01:22 PM

Does anyone else see a difference between me giving my best and me giving your best (ie what I trough persuation and/or bullying can get you to wear). If someone would wear the standard here advocated set of clothing to church out of any reason not based on faith (for instance fear or manpleasing), would it still be pleasing to God or would it maybe even be sinfull?

/Thomas
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/04/05 04:41 PM

Mister Meister you forgot your tie? That must have been a liberating day for you, not having a noose around your neck. [Animated Laughter]

I've worn a tie once in the last couple of years, two weeks ago to my mothers funeral. She would have wanted me to.

Redfog

[ December 04, 2005, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Redfog ]
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/05/05 12:29 AM

quote:

I've worn a tie once in the last couple of years, two weeks ago to my mothers funeral. She would have wanted me to.

Would God had also wanted you to wear a tie to church?

This is the question I am wrestling with at this time, thus my special interest in this topic.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/05/05 12:35 AM

There was a time when dressing up was a real norm in our society here in Canada and North America.

I remember the day when I was required to wear a suit and a tie to work. I also remember the day when that requirement was removed.

I remember the day when there wasn;t even any question about wearing a suit and a tie to church, both before and after my coming into the SDA Church. It seems to me that whatever happens in society eventually also happens in the church.

I still dress up for church with a suit and a tie or a sports jacket and a tie. For some strange reason, I just can't see myself doing otherwise, especially in relation to wearing a tie.
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/05/05 01:24 AM

Daryl wrote:
quote:
It seems to me that whatever happens in society eventually also happens in the church.
At one time the tie was happening in society and eventually was adopted into church, growing into a tradition and now enthusiastically defended...
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/05/05 01:59 AM

Dress is one of those things that changes over time, and what we wear to church also changes and as you say Daryl is a reflection of societies dress.

There are some basic principles I try to follow for church dress. My clothes should be neat, clean, modest and not so out of the ordinary as to draw attention to myself, in other words I don't wear blue jeans as that would draw attention. Beyond that I'm not sure it matters. In Bible times I'm not sure what they wore to church. I'm assuming they might have had a special robe and tie [Wink] they wore to church but I am not certain. However I'd say they were neat, clean and modest. Dressing up is what some people do for work every day, tie, wing tips, the whole nine yards. For me as a bee keeper I'm really dressing up simply by wearing dress slacks and a nice button down shirt and in cool weather a sport jacket. In North America the standards of dressing up have changed in the last few years, people rarely wear ties to work anymore, much less out to dinner or a play, so as a reflection of that most people are dressing down more for church as well. I've heard that at some churches in Hawaii if you wore a tie you would feel out of place. Of course that is true in many countries outside NA. In our fairly conservative church I'm seeing more and more people going tieless and many women are wearing slacks as well. Hopefully the only blue jeans will be on some of the rebellious teens that show up now and then.

Redfog
Posted By: Paul

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/06/05 01:05 AM

I have been dressing down a bit lately, from a suit and tie, to just slacks and tie. Not because I think it is the right thing to do, but because I have put on a few inches at the waist line and can't fit into my suit pants. I don't want to spend money on a new suit since it is my goal to get back to my normal size. But I seem to be losing the battle.

I think we should differentiate between the apparel we use for casual friends and aquaintences, and a God who is Holy and awesome.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/06/05 01:56 AM

How do we dress up when we are invited to a special function such as a wedding?

How would we dress up if we were invited to a special function by the President of the USA, by the Queen of the Commonwealth of Nations, or by the Prime Minister of Canada?
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/06/05 02:51 AM

In all of life we should dress in a way that is appropriate to the function and situation we find our selves in. If we were having a formal dinner at the White House we'd wear a tux, if we were having lunch with Mr. Bush at his ranch we'd dress in blue jeans and a flannel shirt.

If we are going to a big and fancy wedding we would dress differently than a wedding in a park. If we go to a church where nearly everyone wears a suit and tie, and we would be a spectacle if we did not then that is what we should wear. If we went to church in Honduras then wearing a nicer pair of pants, a open shirt and sandals would be appropriate. A church service in the woods would call for the wearing of blue jeans.

I think my original post holds up: "There are some basic principles I try to follow for church dress. My clothes should be neat, clean, modest and not so out of the ordinary (for the situation) as to draw attention to myself" I think this would hold true for most any function, from meeting the head of a state to the Creator of the Universe.

Redfog
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/06/05 04:32 PM

It was not too many years ago that all men would wear a stylish hat, the women would wear a hat and gloves. So the "fashion fad" has changed. Do we stay apart from the world in all her ways? I think not! Look at the dress of the founders of the SDA church. They certainly did not stand out from the society norms for their day. So as time changes, so to does the outward styles, this is not to say that "we" are to follow evry wind of change (micro mini skirts, tatooed and pierced skin, fancy ultra expensive shoes and ties etc) ...
-When I was at University fashion was a reflection of your placement in society. ie: you dress to your position. This was difficult because a lot of people were trying to dress up a level and this was very $$$ so, as "Doctor BUGGGS BUNNY" would ask "What's up doc?" What is up with our continual "looking upon (and judgementation) the OUTWARD appearence???
-What would the SDA church say about the likes of "John the Baptist" what if (symbolicly) he would walk into our church next Sabbath???
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/06/05 06:05 PM

We look upon the outward appearance because it is a reflection, many times, of what is on the inside. A women wearing a micro-mini is sending the world a message. And that message is not one of modesty in her life. A man wearing a Rolex is likely not one of the meek that will inherit the earth. Now of course we should not judge and there are exceptions to everything however in general the outward appearance does tell what is in the heart. Many times our only impression of a person is what we see on the outside, therefore that outward appearance should be a reflection of the Creator.

I think the most important part of dress is modesty, this modesty is not just related to how much skin you show, there is also something to be said by modesty in the cost of clothing and accessories. Modesty says that the latest fad is generally not for us, that we don't have to have the latest pair of shoes off the designers shelf, it says that $75 jeans are not the best use of our money.

Redfog
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/07/05 04:55 PM

One of the problems I see is that once the standard is lowered, it gets increasingly lower.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/07/05 08:32 PM

Changing standards are not the same as lowering standards. It would only be lowering the standard if there were to be less modesty. Taking off a tie is not lowering the standard, it's changing the standard. Showing more skin, as in the case of a mini skirt is lowering the standards. When some women quit wearing dresses to church and started wearing dress slacks the standard started changing but not lowering. Just my opinion you understand [Smile]

Redfog
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/07/05 11:53 PM

It is interesting to note that there is a whole church denominational that believes that women should only wear dresses, that the wearing of slacks/pants is wrong.
Posted By: Darius

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/07/05 11:58 PM

I don't get the interesting part, Daryl. This was accepted Adventist teaching 'back in the day.'
Posted By: Darius

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/07/05 11:59 PM

Redfog, the miniskirt does not lower standards. It raises the standard.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/08/05 12:05 AM

Here is another interesting tidbit:

When I was in school, both elementary and high school, girls were not allowed to wear pants/slacks to school. They had to wear skirts/dresses.

It wasn't very long after I graduated from high school that this requirement of girls only wearing dresses/skirts had changed.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/08/05 01:07 AM

Darius I did think of the irony that when the hem line rises the standards lower, and of course the opposite is true as well.

Redfog
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/08/05 01:20 AM

Daryl I think there might be several denominations where women wear only dresses. Mennonites and Amish come to mind, since both are in our area.

A while back on another SDA forum somthing was mentioned about women wearing slacks. One of the ladies on there said she would never wear slacks because Mrs. White said they were not to be worn. After a lot of searching on her part, and others, the conclusion was that never in the SOP does it say that. To tell the truth there was a time when I was under the impression that Mrs. White said that as well.

There are many pros to women wearing slacks, and very few cons, however it has to be up to the lady herself.

I remember as a child when SMC, now SAU, decided the girls could wear slacks and there was an enormous controversy about it. Times change, clothes change, people change, but life goes on, and the 2nd coming keeps getting closer.

Redfog
Posted By: D R

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/08/05 04:12 AM

AMEN! and a HANDS clapping! REDFOG: What will we be wearing in the new earth? The same "designer outfit" that Adam and Eve wore?
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/08/05 04:36 PM

“Christians are elevated in their conversation; and although they believe it to be sin to condescend to foolish flattery, they are courteous, kind, and benevolent. Their words are those of sincerity and truth. They are faithful in their deal with their brethren and with the world. In their dress they avoid superfluity and display; but their clothing will be neat, not gaudy, modest, and arranged upon the person with order and taste. Especial care will be taken to dress in a manner that will show a sacred regard for the holy Sabbath and the worship of God. The line of demarcation between such a class and the world will be too plain to be mistaken. The influence of believers would be tenfold greater if men and women who accept the truth, who have been formerly careless and slack in their habits, would be so elevated and sanctified through the truth as to observe habits of neatness, order, and good taste in their dress. Our God is a God of order, and he is not in any degree pleased with distraction, with filthiness, or with sin.” {RH, January 30, 1900 par. 4}

Dressing in a special way and carrying a Bible is a way to call the attention of the world to the Sabbath.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/08/05 04:54 PM

Good quote Rosangela. It backs up my earlier post: "My clothes should be neat, clean, modest and not so out of the ordinary (for the situation) as to draw attention to myself"

My question is what does it mean to dress in a special way as the quote says. For many people in the business world dressing in suit and tie is what they do every day. Should they dress differently for church for it to be special? I wear blue jeans to work everyday. For me dressing special means slacks (not jeans), walking shoes, nice shirt (without the noose) and sport coat if the weather warrants it. When I'm listening to the sermon I'm physically very comfortable dressed like this and can devote my mind to the sermon, not aching feet or a choking sensation around my neck.

Redfog
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/09/05 03:56 PM

Redfog,

In my opinion dressing in a special way doesn’t mean outward display (this applies specially to women), for our dress must be characterized by simplicity. But ideally people should notice by the style of our clothes that we are not just going shopping, or to the supermarket, or to a common place or activity. This would be easy in Brazil, even without wearing a suit; I don’t know in the U.S.

Another interesting quote says:

"All who meet upon the Sabbath to worship God should, if possible, have a neat, well-fitting, comely suit to wear in the house of worship. It is a dishonor to the Sabbath, and to God and his house, for those who profess that the Sabbath is the holy of the Lord, and honorable, to wear the same clothing upon the Sabbath that they have worn through the week while laboring upon their farms, when they can obtain other. If there are worthy persons who, with their whole heart would honor the Lord of the Sabbath, and the worship of God, and who cannot obtain a change of clothing, let those who are able, donate to such a Sabbath suit, that they may appear in the house of God with cleanly, fitting apparel. A greater uniformity in dress would be pleasing to God. Those who expend means on costly apparel and extra fixings, can by a little self-denial exemplify pure religion, by simplicity of clothing, and then use the means they have usually expended needlessly in aiding some poor brother or sister, whom God loves, to obtain neat and modest apparel." {2SM 474.2}
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/09/05 04:34 PM

Hi Rosangela, I especially appreciate your comments on simplicity of dress. I think this is important to both men and women. However there are those who see a contradiction between simplicity and dressing up.

It's an important point what Mrs. White says about the people not wearing the same thing to church that they wore on their farms. Our church was founded, in large part, by agricultural types (most people of course were farmers back in the day) and so therefore it would have been very important for them to dress differently to church. In this day and age many of our people basically dress the same way to church as they do to work. Because of the jobs they do in business there is no "dressing up" more than they do every day.

BTW Rosangela what part of Brazil are you from? My wife (then fiancée) spent a year there in 1980, both in Manaus and Brasilia.

Redfog
Posted By: vastergotland

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/09/05 05:58 PM

When seeing someone wearing a suit, weekend aswell as weekday, the assumption is that the person is a buissnessman going about his/her work. I am only aware of a few different clothing styles that identifes a person as a christian. Those are the priest collar, the orthodox/catholic monk/nun dress, the Salvation Army uniform, and... no idea... Christians simply arent identifies by clothes around these parts and would have a hard time doing so by less than inventing a new dress code not found in general society. Jesus paints a few pictures about what we are to expect at the judgement in the secound comming and the only question relating to clothes is how we have clothed the naked. But as long as it is so much easier to look and point fingers at others and their taste/distaste in clothing...

Awaiting the day when people in church stops the judging of people, themselves and others, and starts to act out the faith of Jesus.

/Thomas
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/09/05 10:24 PM

Well there are certain groups, like the Amish that have their own way of dressing that really sets them apart from others, I'm not sure we want to, nor would there would be any need to go to those extremes in styles, either at church or in everyday life. It seems that the advice that Mrs. White gives, though general in nature, is as good as it gets. It is mostly up the person as to how they dress, as it should be.

Redfog
Posted By: Rosangela

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/10/05 03:12 AM

Here it's a rare thing to see someone going to work on Saturdays (specially in those types of jobs which require people to be well dressed). Besides, generally the members of a family go together to church, then it's easy to see that they are not going to work. And, as I said, besides the style of your clothes you must also be carrying a Bible to be identified as a church member. Here in Brazil, when, on Sabbath mornings, we go to churches located in places where we have never been before, we generally start paying attention to passers-by, to see if there is someone dressed as if they were going to church, then we observe if they are carrying a Bible, and this often helps us locate the church.

Redfog, I'm now living in a city which is about six hours away from Brasilia, although I am from Sao Paulo.
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/10/05 05:25 AM

I never thought of that before (shows how observant I am) that on Sabbath morning it would be obvious that someone is not going to work but instead to church because their family is with them. I notice people on Sunday dressed up and without a doubt going to church I just never thought that people would be looking at us like that.

About 3 weeks ago my dear mother passed away and her funeral was on a Friday. I wondered at the time what people thought we were doing all dressed up with family members with us.

Redfog
Posted By: Redfog

Re: Is Dressing Up For Church Really Necessary & Important? - 12/10/05 05:29 PM

Hoping everyone is all dressed up and ready for church this morning. Have a Happy Sabbath ya'll.

Redfog
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