I would appreciate your help and advice.

It's always amusing to find people who cannot run their own lives become experts at running other people's lives.

I can't accept the accolade Bro. Go because it is God who sancitifies. I cannot lead anyone into sanctification. My only goal is to draw attention to the fact that we are off-track. I have no intention of doing the Creator's work for Him. He is able.

Mountain Man,

Hello, getting back to your original question, I just wanted to caution you.

For about the past 6 years events have led me to just eat whatever I wanted to thinking well tomorrow I will change.

Now I realize the foolishness of doing that and hopefully not too late. Now I understand why Ellen White kept saying that if we dont take care of ourselves, each time we do that, we are drawing upon our "emergency stash" so to speak.

Kind of like money in the bank... you make yourself a savings account by practicing right health habits, and each time you dont do that and you abuse your body in any way, later on, when you least expect it, you might have an injury or something else, and your body will desperately need all the forces you have stored up for such an emergency. But if you neglected to take care of yourself, then you will find your body to be bankrupt of that extra stored up energy you need to get you over the emergency.

This is what I am experiencing now. I absolutely regret not taking care of myself better. And if God tells us not to do something, we need to take it absolutely seriously, not only for our own body's good but also because anything we do to our body effects our minds and our ability to be spiritually perceptive.

Especially if you are a Pastor, I believe from what I have read, that you are doubly responsible to keep your mind and body in the very best condition possible so that you can have clear spiritual perception, since you are responsible for influencing others toward or away from obtaining eternal life.

If I were you I would think twice about what the guy said to you and dont allow it to offend you, but allow it to bring this to your attention, no matter how the guy said it... God may be trying to help you, and through you, others who you will influence.

Think of this, if you eat ice cream 3 times a month, and sister white says milk and sugar together have an even worse effect than meat does... that adds up to 1 tenth of your life that you are doing this to yourself. every 10 days. Thats alot. You are using up your emergency fund withot realizing it but some day you will reap what you have sown.
Meaning this as a friend, Bro, take it from one who has experienced this.


The Signs of the Times, March 2, 1882, paragraph 8
Article Title: Daniel a Temperance Reformer
Those who, like Daniel, refuse to defile themselves, will reap the reward of their temperate habits. With their greater physical stamina and increased power of endurance, they have a bank of deposit upon which to draw in case of emergency.

Counsels on Health, page 42, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: Essentials to Health
Adherence to a Simple Diet
If ever there was a time when the diet should be of the most simple kind, it is now. Meat should not be placed before our children. Its influence is to excite and strengthen the lower passions and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers. Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven. The less feverish the diet, the more easily can the passions be controlled. Gratification of taste should not be consulted irrespective of physical, intellectual, or moral health.
Indulgence of the baser passions will lead very many to shut their eyes to the light; for they fear that they will see sins which they are unwilling to forsake. All may see if they will. If they choose darkness rather than light, their criminality will be none the less. Why do not men and women read and become intelligent upon these things, which so decidedly affect their physical, intellectual, and moral strength?-- Testimonies for the Church, vol. 2, p. 352 (1869).

What have such gained? Perhaps they have been able to keep the principal good, and add to it. But on the other hand, what have they lost? Their capital of health, which is invaluable to the poor as well as the rich, has been steadily diminishing. The mother and the children have made repeated drafts upon their fund of health and strength, thinking that such an extravagant expenditure would never exhaust their capital, until they are surprised at last to find their vigor of life exhausted. They have nothing left to draw upon in case of emergency. The sweetness and happiness of life are embittered by racking pains and sleepless nights. Both physical and mental vigor are gone. The husband and father who, for the sake of gain, made the unwise arrangement of his business, it may be with the full sanction of the wife and mother, may, as the result, bury the mother and one or more of the children. Health and life were sacrificed for the love of money. (Read 1 Timothy 6:10.)-- Testimonies for the Church, vol, 1, p. 478 (1865).

Or to put it a little simpler... Your body should be viewed as a "Bank".

Each and every time you take good care of yourself and follow the health laws, you are adding to your savings account that you will be able to draw upon later on in an emergency.

Each and every time that you violate any of the health laws (makes no difference what your motive is)... you are withdrawing money from your account, your resources.

Then something comes along, and injury, the flu, whatever...and because you dont get a "Bank Statement" so that you can realize how high or how low your account is... nevertheless, if you dont have any extra left to draw upon, you are in deep trouble, and many times just before this happens you feel just fine, with no indication of the real dangerous state that your body is in.

Too late perhaps, you will realize your folly.

Claudia

It is interesting that "we" put such emphasis on the physical body...What does the 350+ pound SDA member feel like when they read or hear this "works" message of "salvation through foods". Man, what would Christ offer us in message? Yes scripture does talk about the body being the temple...BUT has anyone figured out how to keep the body in perfect condition?
-If a person eats unclean meats, will they be condemned to Hell?

BBD,
Here's my take on it. The 350+ pound SDA will be aware of the health impact it can have on your heart, and joints i.e. knees, so they would be actively pursuing getting healthier, wouldn't you?
I recently made a major, I mean major overhaul in my diet, and this was because my immune system has been compromised due to high stress that was at a very high level fos several years. In the past 2 months I have been sick around 5 or 6 times, so its pretty bad.
I realized what the cause of it is, and have been making steady and strong progress, and I feel healthier, my mind is clearer, more endurance, and I have more energy.
My respiratory system kept on getting hit badly, and I had this cough cause my respiratory system was not healthy.
The foods of today are packaged for sheer consumption, and that comes at a cost..your health.
By eating right whichmeans lots of fruit, lots of water, lots of vitamin rich foods i.e. greens,sprouts,beans, and eliminating sugars and breads will make a trmendous difference.
My body is going through a detox because of the mycotoxins in my body that are dying off causes me to feel very edgy.
I dont want to die from a stupid flu. You know why the birds are dropping like flies from this "bird flu" which has been around as long as birds have been around? Its because of the pollution that has suppressed their immune systems, go figure. Its a viscious cycle.
I do this cause I want to be healthy, and we have a health message which is very powerful. Heck try it out for 10 days, Daniel did and he fared much better than the best of babylon
God Bless & Happy Sabbath,
Will

Maybe birds die by one birdflu and not from another for the same reason that the black death took more than half of europes people in the middle ages while most people then as now survive chicken pox?

I think there are many strains running around of the bird flu, some manipulated, spliced and repackaged. I never had the chicken pox, but had the measles when I was a kid.
I read somewhere inthe news either bbc or something that 1 lady was diagnosed with the plague?!
God Bless,
Will

Arnold and Claudia, I agree. The time is well nigh past for me to adopt a vegan diet and NEWSTART lifestyle. By the grace of God That's exactly what I am going to do. Not because I think it is a sin not to; but because I want to live a long and full life. I have given up eating my single scoop of ice cream several times a month. In its place I'll eat Tofuti.

PS - I thought we stopped allowing Darius to post on MSDAOL? The reasons he was banished in the first place still persist (see his past few posts). Are we going to have to put up with his unChristlike manners? I hope not.

Another thing we discussed (referring to the phone call mentioned at the beginning of this thread) is whether or not he would come up in the first resurrection if he died before overcoming his impatience problem. He said that he would come up in the first resurrection even if he does not overcome it. He also said that he would not be translated alive with it, that he would be lost if Jesus returned.

Do you agree? Does Jesus save the dead and the living based on two different standards?

Does Jesus save the dead and the living based on two different standards?

MM, are you talking about translation when you refer to saving the living?

One often hears that the standard of judgment is the law. The law is simply a transcript of God's character. So this is just another way of saying that to God to heaven one must be in harmony with God. To know God is eternal life.

Tom, yes, I was referring to those who will be translated alive.

Arnold, I agree. Overcoming and obedience are the criteria upon which Jesus bases our eternal destiny in judgment.

FE 376
He who chooses a course of disobedience to God's law is deciding his future destiny; he is sowing to the flesh, earning the wages of sin, even eternal destruction, the opposite of life eternal. Submission to God and obedience to His holy law bring the sure result. "This is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent." {FE 376.1}

LHU 348
The judgment will be conducted in accordance with the rules God has laid down. By the law which men are now called upon to obey, but which many refuse to accept, all will be judged. As by it character is tested, every man will find his proper place in one of two classes. He will either be holy to the Lord through obedience to His law, or be stained with sin through transgression. {LHU 348.3}

FW 43
None who have had the light of truth will enter the city of God as commandment-breakers. His law lies at the foundation of His government in earth and in heaven. If they have knowingly trampled upon and despised His law on the earth, they will not be taken to heaven to do the same work there; there is no change of character when Christ comes. {FW 43.2}

In light of the quotes posted above I have another question: If we should die before our character defects are crucified will we come up in the first resurrection and go to heaven? Or, will Jesus change them when He returns?

These questions sadden me.

Darius, is there such a thing as selfishness? If I’m on my way to something trivial, like to see a ballgame, and I see a person stranded on the side of the road, and it’s not in my heart to stop and help, is compassion not in my heart because I haven’t had the same opportunities to know God as well as the person who does stop to help? Or, is it not in my heart because I don’t WANT a fuller understanding of God.

Tom posted a thread about people’s metanarrative. I would love to know yours better. In mine, the limited view I get of your way makes the idea of God a game; purposeless. The only reason I gave up my agnosticism for Christianity is because the Great Controversy was the only Christian paradigm that made any sense.

To be honest, I see no free will in the logical conclusion of your paradigm. Without individual free will—the choice to do wrong, knowing full well that it is wrong, but doing it anyway because it’s what we’d rather do, or doing right, knowing what it will cost in worldly terms yet doing it anyway because it’s right—without that ability, we’re all not much more than robots at the end of it, which makes God a sadistic tyrant playing around with toys.

Jeff

Choosing between two acts is different from choosing between two masters. Remember, we always do what we think is in our own best interest.

Tom, the GC 425 quote you posted, so far as character perfection is concerned, applies to the people resurrected in the first resurrection - right?

MM, the quote I quoted was specifically referencing those who would be alive at Christ's coming. She spoke of a "special work" to be done for this purpose. She also referenced their need to stand before God without a mediator.

Arnold, I agree with you. Whether we are resurrected in the first resurrection or translated alive when Jesus returns we must be free of our former defective traits of character. Our old man habits of sinning must be crucified. Otherwise we cannot go to heaven with Jesus.

This is true in cases like the thief on the cross and the 144,000. There can be no difference. Whether we die the day we are born again or years later our characters must be pure and holy (same as the 144,000) to go to heaven. This insight indicates that we are cleansed from all unrighteousness the moment we are born again.

Tom, it appears that you disagree?

Tom, here's how the GC 488 quote goes where you left off:

GC 488, 489
Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God. Each must meet the great Judge face to face. How important, then, that every mind contemplate often the solemn scene when the judgment shall sit and the books shall be opened, when, with Daniel, every individual must stand in his lot, at the end of the days. {GC 488.2}

All who have received the light upon these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ's work in behalf of men. It concerns every soul living upon the earth. It opens to view the plan of redemption, bringing us down to the very close of time and revealing the triumphant issue of the contest between righteousness and sin. It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects and be able to give an answer to everyone that asketh them a reason of the hope that is in them. {GC 488.3}

The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven. We must by faith enter within the veil, "whither the forerunner is for us entered." Hebrews 6:20. There the light from the cross of Calvary is reflected. There we may gain a clearer insight into the mysteries of redemption. The salvation of man is accomplished at an infinite expense to heaven; the sacrifice made is equal to the broadest demands of the broken law of God. Jesus has opened the way to the Father's throne, and through His mediation the sincere desire of all who come to Him in faith may be presented before God. {GC 489.1}

Tom, are you absolutely sure you want to maintain Sister White taught that the sanctuary message does not need to be understood by post-1844 believers in order to be saved in the first resurrection? The context of her quote is "at this time", that is, as of when she wrote it in the mid-1800's. She also wrote about the people who rejected the sanctuary message in her time. They were left in the Holy Place worshipping Satan while the others followed Jesus into the Most Holy Place.

EW 43
The enemies of the present truth have been trying to open the door of the holy place, that Jesus has shut, and to close the door of the most holy place, which He opened in 1844, where the ark is, containing the two tables of stone on which are written the ten commandments by the finger of Jehovah. {EW 43.1}

EW 56
I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children. {EW 56.1}

EW 260, 261
Those who rejected the first message could not be benefited by the second; neither were they benefited by the midnight cry, which was to prepare them to enter with Jesus by faith into the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary. And by rejecting the two former messages, they have so darkened their understanding that they can see no light in the third angel's message, which shows the way into the most holy place. I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself, working with his power, his signs and lying wonders, to fasten them in his snare. {EW 260.1}

I have a rather serious question. How is it that satan was in the Holy Place?
God Bless,
Will

Tom, in answer to your question, yes, I believe everyone could have been ready for the return of Jseus shortly after the passing of 1844 or anytime since then. The latter rain is what will or would have readied the world for the return of Jesus anytime since 1844.

Will, here's Sister White's own comment on Satan being in the Holy Place:

EW 92, 93
I also stated that "Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God." I will give another sentence from the same page: "I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne." Now this praying company was in this mortal state, on the earth, yet represented to me as bowed before the throne. I never had the idea that these individuals were actually in the New Jerusalem. Neither did I ever think that any mortal could suppose that I believed that Satan was actually in the New Jerusalem. But did not John see the great red dragon in heaven? Certainly. "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns." Rev. 12:3. What a monster to be in heaven! Here seems to be as good a chance for ridicule as in the interpretation which some have placed upon my statements. {EW 92.2}

Tom, your assumption would not have been possible. The latter rain would have readied everyone for or against the seal of God. No one would have been uninformed or unprepared. They would have understood all the issues, especially including the sanctuary message. That's how it will be at the end of time and how it would have been back then.

Do you agree?

MM, you're not answering the question I'm trying to ask. I'll keep trying though .

What I want to know is if you believe that those who are born again but are not familiar with Christ's work in the Most Holy Place are ready *as they are* to meet Christ and be translated. Without anything else needing to happen, like the falling of the latter rain upon them.

There are millions of people, born again or otherwise, who will be in heaven who did not understand the sanctuary message. But none of them were ready, as they were, to be translated alive.

But before you try to draw a conclusion based on this answer let me hasten to add that if these very same people were living at the end of time, during the little time of trouble (before probation closes), they would have embraced the 3AMs and would have been translated alive.

The basis upon which people are saved in heaven, whether they are resurrected or translated, is the same – moral fitness. However, not everyone who makes it to heaven had the same amount of intellectual knowledge of certain Bible doctrines while they were living on earth. But they were all “morally” born again in the eyes of Jesus.