The Chapter 6 study of The Great Controversy
did happen last Friday evening, and we had a wonderful timeQ
Here is what most of you missed last Friday in Chat Room #1:
quote:
Study on Chapter 6
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:25 ADT pm:
Chap. 6 - Huss and Jerome is tonight's study. 1. What progress had the gospel made in Bohemia, and what difficulties had it encountered before the days of John Huss? 97:1, 2 [109:1; 110:1] Note--The bull of Gregory VII mentioned in the text was issued in 1079 A. D. The gospel had been planted in Bohemia as early as the ninth century. The Bible was translated, and public worship was conducted, in the
language of the people. But as the power of the pope increased, so the word of God was obscured. Gregory VII, who had taken it upon himself to humble the pride of kings, was no less intent upon enslaving the people, and accordingly a bull was issued forbidding
public worship to be conducted in the Bohemian tongue. The pope declared that "it was pleasing to the Omnipotent that His worship should be celebrated in an unknown language, and that many evils and heresies had arisen from not observing this rule."--Wylie, b. 3, ch. 1. Thus Rome decreed that the light of God's word should be extinguished and the people should be shut up in darkness.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:29 pm: a bull? as in a document?? a bill???
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:29 pm: Pleasing to the Omnipotent???
[Vicki Hahn] 9:29 pm: Probably a declaration - an order
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:29 pm: I wonder how the Pope feels about this today?
[Vicki Hahn] 9:30 pm: It wasn't until the 1960's that they started doing the mass in native languages. Instead of Latin--a dead language, at that.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:30 pm: Wasn't that long ago then.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:30 pm: It happened at the 2nd Vatican Council
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:31 pm: In answer to the question: Before the days of Huss there were men in Bohemia who rose up to condemn openly the corruption in the church and the profligacy of the people.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:31 pm: Hmm, the position of "Pope" is actually saying 'God on earth' which is rather odd that he would say..."it was pleasing to the Omnipotent that His
worship should be celebrated in an unknown language, and that many evils and heresies had arisen from not observing this rule."
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:31 pm: Where did these men come from?
[Vicki Hahn] 9:31 pm: Right, Marae. Good observation
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:32 pm: Yes, good observation. Many of the Waldenses and
Albigenses, driven by persecution from their homes in France and Italy, came to Bohemia. Though they dared not teach openly, they labored zealously in secret.
Thus the true faith was preserved from century to century. {GC 97.1}
[Vicki Hahn] 9:32 pm: Probably men who had been converted by the Waldenses and ...oh, you beat me to it, Daryl.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:33 pm: That is how God preserved His truth up to the day of John Huss.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:33 pm: And Wycliff
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:33 pm: Yes.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:33 pm: interesting.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:34 pm: 2. The scattering of believers by persecution or oppression has frequently been signally blessed of heaven in disseminating light. Acts 11:19-21. This is illustrated in the history recorded in this chapter. 97:1; 100:3 [109:1, 112:2]
[Vicki Hahn] 9:34 pm: Why do you think that is?
[Will] 9:35 pm: I am still here, I was looking up specifics of the bull decreed by pope gregory the VII. I found the following: Though practicing the Eastern ritual, the
Bohemian Church remained under the jurisdiction of Rome; for the great schism between the Eastern and the Western Churches had not yet been consummated. The Greek
liturgy, as we may imagine, was displeasing to the Pope, and he began to plot its overthrow. Gradually the Latin rite was introduced, and the Greek rite in the same proportion displaced. At length, in 1079, Gregory VII. (Hildebrand) issued a bull forbidding the Oriental ritual to be longer observing this rule.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:36 pm: So it looks like it was just a power play
[Will] 9:36 pm: i messed up in the copy and paste. the last part should read: from not observing this rule. Found at
http://www.searchgodsword.org/his/ad/hop/view.cgi?book=3&chapter=1[Marae_Hoover] 9:36 pm: makes a bit more sense
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:37 pm: 3. Wycliffe belonged to a family of the nobility, and he had no financial difficulties to face in the acquisition of an education. Huss furnishes an example of a youth from a home of poverty. Both, however, applied themselves diligently to study, and both were exemplary in the purity of their lives. 98:1, 2 [110:2, 3]
[Vicki Hahn] 9:37 pm: Good find, Will. Wait, I want to go back to 2.!
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:37 pm: Yes, very interesting, Will. OK. Go with 2. The destruction of Jerusalem did the same thing.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:38 pm: Why do you think that those persecuted are frequently blessed in disseminating light?
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:38 pm: ...dispersed the Christians.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:39 pm: Because they are , sometimes literally, dying for God without a fight - they are saying I will die for what I know is right by God and therefore honoring
God
[Vicki Hahn] 9:39 pm: Did they have extra of the Holy Spirit?
[Marae_Hoover] 9:39 pm: Probably a lot of prayer and Trust that God would do his Will like the men being put into the fiery furnace and then Jesus appearing next to them and not being burned.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:40 pm: The Holy Spirit is no less available to us as He was to them.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:40 pm: that took MOUNDS of trust. Yes true Daryl.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:40 pm: Does it take persecution to get us there, though?
[Marae_Hoover] 9:40 pm: but we must trust in Divine intervention
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:40 pm: How about a mustard of faith.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:40 pm: Trust is a part of faith
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:41 pm: Yes, but only a mustard of faith is needed to move mountains.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:41 pm: Great illustration that Jesus gave us, isn't it?
[Marae_Hoover] 9:42 pm: Well it might for some, we are all so different, we have different weakeness's and different strength;s that it seems as thow that we have different
combinations of tests or trials if you will to see where our loyalty lies.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:42 pm: I pray for a whole jar of mustard!
[Will] 9:42 pm: we will be in that situation soon, where our faith will need to be strong, and the size of a mustard seed. Maybe we have less than that right now.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:42 pm: Yes, God knows how to try us in the fire.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:42 pm: i think we all need a whole jar of mustard every now and then.
[Will] 9:42 pm: but the urgency of the situation will put us in the position of either serving God or being approved of by man
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:43 pm: That, Will, is what the problem probably is, especially here in the NAD.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:43 pm: We are definitely getting there eh will?
Marae_Hoover] 9:43 pm: NAD???
[Will] 9:43 pm: North American Division
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:43 pm: 4. What calling did Huss choose to follow, and what positions did he fill? 98:2; 99:1 [110:3; 111:1]
[Vicki Hahn] 9:44 pm: professor and rector of the university, priesthood also
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:45 pm: What did that lead to?
[Marae_Hoover] 9:45 pm: Wow he really engrossed himself in work at school and became well known.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:45 pm: Court of the king?
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:45 pm: But it was in another field that Huss began the work of reform. Several years after taking priest's orders he was appointed preacher of the chapel of Bethlehem. The founder of this chapel had advocated, as a matter of great importance, the preaching of the Scriptures in the language of the people.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:46 pm: I love on page 98 where his poor mother consecrates him to God
[Marae_Hoover] 9:46 pm: and was rubbing shoulders with diplomats He was BUSY. Yes I just read that.the writings of wicliffe were given to him and he took them to heart.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:47 pm: Notwithstanding Rome's opposition to this practice, it had not been wholly discontinued in Bohemia. But there was great ignorance of the Bible, and the worst vices prevailed among the people of all ranks. These evils Huss unsparingly denounced, appealing to the word of God to enforce the principles of truth and purity which he inculcated. {GC 99.1}
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:47 pm: 5. What providential circumstances led to the spread of Wycliffe's writings to Bohemia? 99:2, 3 [111:2, 3] A citizen of Prague, Jerome,
who afterward became so closely associated with Huss, had, on returning from England, brought with him the writings of Wycliffe. The queen of England, who had been a convert to Wycliffe's teachings, was a Bohemian princess, and through her influence also
the Reformer's works were widely circulated in her native country. These works Huss read with interest; he believed their author to be a sincere Christian and was inclined to regard with favor the reforms…….
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:48 pm: It is interesting how God brings it all together.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:48 pm: Yes, and then the two strangers came
[Marae_Hoover] 9:49 pm: no kidding
[Vicki Hahn] 9:49 pm: I love the picture that they drew. It is encouraging none the less
to see how God can make things work out in the end too.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:49 pm: Is there a picture of it ????
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:50 pm: The strangers and their drawings.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:50 pm: Can you copy it, Daryl? The paragraph, I mean.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:50 pm: The pictures made a deep impression on the mind of Huss and led him to a closer study of the Bible and of Wycliffe's writings.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:51 pm: The two strangers were artists, and after they were silenced from preaching, they drew a picture of Jesus...
[Vicki Hahn] 9:51 pm: humble on his donkey, barefoot, and then a picture. of the proud pope with all his pomp and circumstance.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:52 pm: One represented the entrance of Christ into Jerusalem, “meek, and sitting upon an ass" (Matthew 21:5), and followed by His disciples in travel-worn garments and with naked feet. The other picture portrayed a pontifical procession--the pope arrayed in his rich robes and triple crown, mounted upon a horse magnificently adorned, preceded by trumpeters and followed by cardinals and prelates in dazzling array.
{GC 99.3}
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:53 pm: Quite a contrast and quite a message.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:53 pm: No kidding. The pope is an idol
[Vicki Hahn] 9:53 pm: Even today, you would think that people would wonder about the contrast between the two but they seem to love the idolatry...like you said, Marae.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:53 pm: 8. What circumstances led to the placing of Prague under the papal interdict? What conditions prevailed under the terms of such an interdict? 100:3; 104:1 [112:3; 113:1] Tidings of the work at Prague were carried to Rome, and Huss was soon summoned to appear before the pope. To obey would be to expose himself to certain death. The king and queen of Bohemia, the university, members of the nobility, and officers of the government united in an appeal to the pontiff that Huss be permitted to remain at Prague and to answer at Rome by deputy. Instead of granting this request, the pope proceeded to the trial and condemnation of Huss, and then declared the city of
Prague to be under interdict.
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:55 pm: What does "interdict" mean?
[Marae_Hoover] 9:55 pm: In the Roman Catholic Church interdict is an ecclesiastical penalty which usually suspends all public worship and withdraws the church's sacraments in a territory or country.
[Will] 9:56 pm: The king and queen were defending Huss, and asked that he stay in Prague
[Marae_Hoover] 9:56 pm: wow makes me think of what they will do to us
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:56 pm: It was believed that the gates of heaven were closed against the region smitten with interdict; that until it should please the pope to remove the ban, the dead were shut out from the abodes of bliss. In token of this terrible calamity, all
the services of religion were suspended. The churches were closed. Marriages were solemnized in the churchyard. The dead, denied burial in consecrated ground, were interred, without the rites of sepulture, in the ditches or the fields. Thus by measures which appealed to the imagination, Rome essayed to control the consciences of men. {GC 101.1}
[Marae_Hoover] 9:56 pm: Interdict can refer to several things: In the Roman Catholic Church interdict is an ecclesiastical penalty which usually suspends all public worship and withdraws the church's sacraments in a territory or country. In Scotland an interdict is a court order preventing a certain action, similar to an injunction. A type of type of shield or military defense against attack..
[Will] 9:56 pm: What baffles me is that a king and queen had to petition the pope? They rukle their own contry and here the papacy reaches into other countries as if it owns them
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:57 pm: Yes, the Pope even ruled them in a sense.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:57 pm: Yea exactly. Can we say Sunday Law??????
[Daryl Fawcett] 9:57 pm: They either obeyed or were excommunicated.
[Marae_Hoover] 9:57 pm: Talk about history repeating itself.
[Vicki Hahn] 9:58 pm: The dictionary says: Interdict: To prohibit or place under an ecclesiastical or legal sanction. To forbid or debar, especially authoritatively.
[Will] 9:58 pm: So an interdict is a law then?
[Vicki Hahn] 9:58 pm: The pope had/has the keys to heaven and hell. That overruled a temporal authority. Sounds like it, Will
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:00 pm: The city of Prague was filled with tumult. A large class denounced Huss as the cause of all their calamities and demanded that he be given up to the vengeance of Rome. To quiet the storm, the Reformer withdrew for a time to his native village.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:00 pm: The Pope worked on the fear of the people.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:00 pm: But this just furthered his influence
[Marae_Hoover] 10:00 pm: Well its and overthrow of the law that i guess the pope feels like he has the power of
[Vicki Hahn] 10:00 pm: Husses influence, that is.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:01 pm: Huss did not cease his labors, but traveled through the surrounding country, preaching to eager crowds. Thus the measures to which the pope resorted to suppress the gospel were causing it to be the more widely extended.
[Marae_Hoover] 10:10 pm: Huss and the turmoil going on inside him.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:10 pm: Oh yes. This actually resulted in Huss preaching all over the
place.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:12 pm: Huss was also in conflict with himself.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:12 pm: "The mind of Huss, at this stage of his career, would seem to have been the scene of a painful conflict. Although the church was seeking to overwhelm him by her thunderbolts, he had not renounced her authority. The Roman Church was still to him the spouse of Christ, and the pope was the representative and vicar of God. What Huss was warring against was the abuse of authority, not the principle itself.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:12 pm: Interesting dilemma.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:14 pm: This brought on a terrible conflict between the convictions of his understanding and the claims of his conscience. If the authority was just and nfallible, as he believed it to be, how came it that he felt compelled to disobey it? To obey, he saw,
was to sin; but why should obedience to an infallible church lead to such an issue? This was the problem he could not solve; this was the doubt that tortured him hour by hour.
[Marae_Hoover] 10:16 pm: sounds like what i went through in my conversion
[Vicki Hahn] 10:16 pm: How did you resolve it, Marae?
[Marae_Hoover] 10:17 pm: I decided i better follow what my heart was saying which is what the Bible was telling me and what i Felt convicted on or I would live a life of misery and die for good...which i did not want, so I chose happiness, what little can be had on this earth and in the long run a life of eternity that I get to have with loved ones and God and not to mention I get to give Jesus a big hug I imagine there will be a long line for that.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:18 pm: Right choice! I'll be in line behind you!
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:20 pm: 11. What were the two prime reasons for calling the Council of Constance, 1414-18? 104:2, 3 [117:2, 3]
[Marae_Hoover] 10:20 pm: It will also be the best choir ever!! all of us people, plus angels, plus our God!! imagine His voice
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:20 pm: The chief objects to be accomplished by the council were to heal the schism in the church and to root out heresy.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:21 pm: 13. What tracings of the prophetic gift do we find in this chapter? 97:1; 108:1 [110:1; 122:1] "Huss also was visited by visions and prophetic dreams." (Bonnechose, Vol. II, p. 24)
[Vicki Hahn] 10:21 pm: Sounds like a noble cause. Didn't turn out that way though.
[Marae_Hoover] 10:24 pm: What year was this taking place??
[Vicki Hahn] 10:24 pm: Wasn't it around 1079 or somthing?
[Marae_Hoover] 10:24 pm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussite[Marae_Hoover] 10:24 pm: 1400's.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:25 pm: Good, Marae!
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:26 pm: They eventually did to Huss which they later failed to do to Martin Luther.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:26 pm: 15. What was the immediate effect in Bohemia of the execution of Huss? 115:3 [131:3]
[Vicki Hahn] 10:26 pm: Kindled the flame of indignation and horror.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:27 pm: Huss was no more, but the truths for which he died could never perish. His example of faith and constancy would encourage multitudes to stand firm for the truth, in the face of torture and death. His execution had exhibited to the
whole world the perfidious cruelty of Rome. The enemies of truth, though they knew it not, had been furthering the cause which they vainly sought to destroy. {GC 110.1}
[Vicki Hahn] 10:28 pm: So martyrdom in this age would have the same effect, I suppose.
[Marae_Hoover] 10:28 pm: At least his death was not in vain, it actually brought more attention to the truth.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:29 pm: The death of Huss had not resulted as the papists had hoped. The violation of his safe-conduct had roused a storm of indignation, and as the safer course, the council determined, instead of burning Jerome, to force him, if possible, to retract.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:29 pm: In other words, the made it worse for themselves in the eyes of the people.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:29 pm: I feel bad for poor Jerome. He renounced the truth and Huss,
and then he had such guilt but he made it right in the end.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:30 pm: Jerome's fortitude gave way, and he consented to submit to the council. He pledged himself to adhere to the Catholic faith, and accepted the action of the council in condemning the doctrines of Wycliffe and Huss, excepting, however, the "holy truths" which they had taught.--Ibid, vol. 2, p. 141. {GC 111.1}
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:31 pm: By this expedient Jerome endeavored to silence the voice of conscience and escape his doom. But in the solitude of his dungeon he saw more clearly what he had done. He thought of the courage and fidelity of Huss, and in contrast pondered upon his own denial of the truth. He thought of the divine Master whom he had pledged himself to serve, and who for his sake endured the death of the cross. Before his retraction he had found comfort, amid all his sufferings, in the assurance of God's favor; but now remorse and doubts tortured his soul. He knew that still other retractions must be made before he could be at peace with Rome.
[Marae_Hoover] 10:31 pm: so did he or did he not make it right in the end?
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:31 pm: The path upon which he was entering could end only in complete apostasy. His resolution was taken: To escape a brief period of suffering he would not deny his Lord. He renounced his former recantation and, as a dying man, solemnly required an opportunity to make his defense.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:33 pm: He pulled a John Mark, but also did what John Mark did later on.
[Marae_Hoover] 10:33 pm: John Mark?????
[Will] 10:34 pm: John Mark ran didn’t he?
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:34 pm: He got scared and turned back from a missionary journey, but he redeemed himself in a future one.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:35 pm: At his retraction, Jerome had assented to the justice of the sentence condemning Huss; he now declared his repentance and bore witness to the innocence and holiness of the martyr.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:35 pm: I'm thankful for a very forgiving God!
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:35 pm: He was led out to the same spot upon which Huss had yielded up his life. He went singing on his way, his countenance lighted up with joy and peace. His gaze was fixed upon Christ, and to him death had lost its terrors. When the executioner, about to kindle the pile, stepped behind him, the martyr exclaimed: "Come
forward boldly; apply the fire before my face. Had I been afraid, I should not be here." {GC 114.8}
[Marae_Hoover] 10:36 pm: We have a VERY loving Father in heaven
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:36 pm: His last words, uttered as the flames rose about him, were a prayer. "Lord, Almighty Father," he cried, "have pity on me, and pardon me my sins; for Thou knowest that I have always loved Thy truth."--Bonnechose, vol. 2, p. 168. His voice ceased, but his lips continued to move in prayer.
[Will] 10:37 pm: This reminds me of what Stephen had encountered when he was being stoned. The Lord put him to sleep, but he was not afraid.
[Vicki Hahn] 10:38 pm: Stephens's face shone.
[Daryl Fawcett] 10:41 pm: Chapter 7 next Friday.
We are scheduled to study Chapter 7 this evening at 8:30 pm EDT in MSDAOL Chat Room #1.
If you wish to participate in this evening's study, then I suggest you try and access Chat Room #1 right now, so that if you have any login problems, you can let me know by email, or even here, right away.
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