Posted By: razorren
Help: Responce to the Law is bondage. - 06/28/05 03:14 PM
I had a long disussion with a Baptist beliver and co-worker yesturday mainly concerning the Sabbath. He held fast that it was bondage...but from the discussion we had questions arose that I tried my best to answer. Below is my response to him (many of the text came from the amazing facts site).
Did I leave anything out?
--Ren
-----------------------------------------------
Here are some questions that arose from the discussion Brent and I had yesterday:
(1)When did Jesus arise? If we count from Friday to Sunday, we don't get 3 days in the earth as prophesied.
(2)We don't know if Saturday is the 7th day because of calendar change.
(3)When is the Sabbath? Is it Holy? Who is it for?
(1) http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.
This is the Hebrew method of computing time, any small part of a day was counted as the entire twenty-four hour period.
In Genesis 7:4 God said to Noah, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth." But in verse 10 we read, "And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth." So...when did the flood come? In seven days? On the seventh day? Or after seven days? Even if God spoke just ten minutes before the end of that first day, it was still counted as one of the seven. And if it started raining at noon on the last day, it was also counted one of the seven. The same principle is revealed in the circumcision of babies. Genesis 17:12 specifies "he that is eight days old." But Luke 1:59 reads "on the eighth day."
"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus is behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day." Luke 24:46.
Jesus explained of how to locate the third day. "Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following." Luke 13:32, 33. The first day is counted in its entirety, the whole of the second day, and the third day in its entirety. The third day will always be the day after "to morrow" from any certain event.
He said, "To day (crucifixion) and to morrow (in tomb), and the third day I shall be perfected (resurrection)." Even though He died in the late afternoon, the entire day would be counted as the first day. The second day would span the Sabbath when He slept in the tomb. He was resurrected in the early hours on the third day making it one of the three days.
(2) The calendar has not been changed so as to confuse the days of the week. We can be positive that our seventh day is the same day Jesus observed when He was here. Pope Gregory XIII did make a calendar change in 1582, but it did not interfere with the weekly cycle. Our present Gregorian calendar was named after him when he made that small change in 1582.
What did Pope Gregory do to the calendar? Before 1582 the Julian calendar had been in effect, instituted by Julius Ceasar about 46 B.C. and named after him. But the Julian calendar had calculated the length of the year as 365 1/4 days, and the year is actually eleven minutes less than 365 1/4 days. Those eleven minutes accumulated, and by 1582 the numbering of the calendar was ten days out of harmony with the solar system. Gregory simply dropped those ten days out of the numbering of the calendar. It was Thursday, October 4, 1582, and the next day, Friday, should have been October 5. But Gregory made it October 15 instead, dropping exactly ten days to bring the calendar back into harmony with the heavenly bodies.
Were the days of the week confused? No. Friday still followed Thursday, and Saturday still followed Friday. The same seventh day remained, and the weekly cycle was not disturbed in the least. When we keep the seventh day on Saturday, we are observing the same day Jesus kept, and He did it every week according to Luke 4:16.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-27,GGLD:en&q=did+the+calendar+change
(3)
When is the Sabbath?
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. ... And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Genesis 2:1-3.
Which day did God bless and sanctify? The seventh day. (Exodus 20:11)
How was it to be kept holy? By resting. "If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thane own pleasure, nor speaking thane own words:
Then salt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." Isaiah 58:13-14
Could any of the other six be kept holy? No. The seventh day is different from all the other six days, because it has God's blessing. "The Sabbath, my holy day." (Isaiah 58:13).
Why? Because God commanded not to rest those days but to work.
Can the Sabbath memorial be changed? Never. July 10th is our Bahamian Independence Day...not the 9th or the 11th. The same way that no other day is your birthday than the day in which you were born.
Did God ever give man the privilege of choosing his own day of rest? He did not. For 40 years God worked three miracles every week to show Israel which day was holy. (1) No manna fell on the seventh day. (2) They could not keep it overnight without spoilage, but (3) when they kept it over the Sabbath, it remained sweet and fresh.
Was it only made for the Jews? It is called "the Sabbath of the Lord," but never "the Sabbath of the Jews." Exodus 20:10. Luke often made reference to things which were Jewish. He spoke of the "nation of the Jews," "the people of the Jews," "the land of the Jews," and the "synagogue of the Jews." Acts 10:22; 12:11; 10:39; 14:1. Luke never referred to the "Sabbath of the Jews," although he mentioned the Sabbath repeatedly.
Christ clearly taught that "the Sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. Adam was the only man in existence at the time God made the Sabbath...Adam was not a Jew.
Did Christ change the day? No. In His 30+ years of ministry, He never indicated a change in His Law. He had sufficient time to do it...His decipiles had sufficient time to do it. But none of them did. So how is it that we now take upon ourselves the authority to make such a change? Is it not the same situation as Cain and Able? God said to worship me this way...bring this sacrifice. But man says no, I have a better way...my way.
I'll close this email with a quote from John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
They are not grevious, but were given by the same loving God who died for our sins.
More to come? Maybe...
Sent in love...
Did I leave anything out?
--Ren
-----------------------------------------------
Here are some questions that arose from the discussion Brent and I had yesterday:
(1)When did Jesus arise? If we count from Friday to Sunday, we don't get 3 days in the earth as prophesied.
(2)We don't know if Saturday is the 7th day because of calendar change.
(3)When is the Sabbath? Is it Holy? Who is it for?
(1) http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com
In the Bible, the season of light (Gen. i. 5), lasting "from dawn [lit. "the rising of the morning"] to the coming forth of the stars" (Neh. iv. 15, 17). The term "day" is used also to denote a period of twenty-four hours (Ex. xxi. 21). In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day; e.g., the day of the funeral, even when the latter takes place late in the afternoon, is counted as the first of the seven days of mourning; a short time in the morning of the seventh day is counted as the seventh day; circumcision takes place on the eighth day, even though of the first day only a few minutes remained after the birth of the child, these being counted as one day.
This is the Hebrew method of computing time, any small part of a day was counted as the entire twenty-four hour period.
In Genesis 7:4 God said to Noah, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth." But in verse 10 we read, "And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth." So...when did the flood come? In seven days? On the seventh day? Or after seven days? Even if God spoke just ten minutes before the end of that first day, it was still counted as one of the seven. And if it started raining at noon on the last day, it was also counted one of the seven. The same principle is revealed in the circumcision of babies. Genesis 17:12 specifies "he that is eight days old." But Luke 1:59 reads "on the eighth day."
"And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus is behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day." Luke 24:46.
Jesus explained of how to locate the third day. "Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following." Luke 13:32, 33. The first day is counted in its entirety, the whole of the second day, and the third day in its entirety. The third day will always be the day after "to morrow" from any certain event.
He said, "To day (crucifixion) and to morrow (in tomb), and the third day I shall be perfected (resurrection)." Even though He died in the late afternoon, the entire day would be counted as the first day. The second day would span the Sabbath when He slept in the tomb. He was resurrected in the early hours on the third day making it one of the three days.
(2) The calendar has not been changed so as to confuse the days of the week. We can be positive that our seventh day is the same day Jesus observed when He was here. Pope Gregory XIII did make a calendar change in 1582, but it did not interfere with the weekly cycle. Our present Gregorian calendar was named after him when he made that small change in 1582.
What did Pope Gregory do to the calendar? Before 1582 the Julian calendar had been in effect, instituted by Julius Ceasar about 46 B.C. and named after him. But the Julian calendar had calculated the length of the year as 365 1/4 days, and the year is actually eleven minutes less than 365 1/4 days. Those eleven minutes accumulated, and by 1582 the numbering of the calendar was ten days out of harmony with the solar system. Gregory simply dropped those ten days out of the numbering of the calendar. It was Thursday, October 4, 1582, and the next day, Friday, should have been October 5. But Gregory made it October 15 instead, dropping exactly ten days to bring the calendar back into harmony with the heavenly bodies.
Were the days of the week confused? No. Friday still followed Thursday, and Saturday still followed Friday. The same seventh day remained, and the weekly cycle was not disturbed in the least. When we keep the seventh day on Saturday, we are observing the same day Jesus kept, and He did it every week according to Luke 4:16.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-27,GGLD:en&q=did+the+calendar+change
(3)
When is the Sabbath?
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. ... And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Genesis 2:1-3.
Which day did God bless and sanctify? The seventh day. (Exodus 20:11)
How was it to be kept holy? By resting. "If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thane own pleasure, nor speaking thane own words:
Then salt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." Isaiah 58:13-14
Could any of the other six be kept holy? No. The seventh day is different from all the other six days, because it has God's blessing. "The Sabbath, my holy day." (Isaiah 58:13).
Why? Because God commanded not to rest those days but to work.
Can the Sabbath memorial be changed? Never. July 10th is our Bahamian Independence Day...not the 9th or the 11th. The same way that no other day is your birthday than the day in which you were born.
Did God ever give man the privilege of choosing his own day of rest? He did not. For 40 years God worked three miracles every week to show Israel which day was holy. (1) No manna fell on the seventh day. (2) They could not keep it overnight without spoilage, but (3) when they kept it over the Sabbath, it remained sweet and fresh.
Was it only made for the Jews? It is called "the Sabbath of the Lord," but never "the Sabbath of the Jews." Exodus 20:10. Luke often made reference to things which were Jewish. He spoke of the "nation of the Jews," "the people of the Jews," "the land of the Jews," and the "synagogue of the Jews." Acts 10:22; 12:11; 10:39; 14:1. Luke never referred to the "Sabbath of the Jews," although he mentioned the Sabbath repeatedly.
Christ clearly taught that "the Sabbath was made for man." Mark 2:27. Adam was the only man in existence at the time God made the Sabbath...Adam was not a Jew.
Did Christ change the day? No. In His 30+ years of ministry, He never indicated a change in His Law. He had sufficient time to do it...His decipiles had sufficient time to do it. But none of them did. So how is it that we now take upon ourselves the authority to make such a change? Is it not the same situation as Cain and Able? God said to worship me this way...bring this sacrifice. But man says no, I have a better way...my way.
I'll close this email with a quote from John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."
They are not grevious, but were given by the same loving God who died for our sins.
More to come? Maybe...
Sent in love...
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