The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick

Posted By: Green Cochoa

The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/12/20 09:23 PM


Mrs. White was at campmeeting with "a burning fever" (see 20MR 358.3). She both attended and spoke at campmeeting, where many people were assembled together, while "she was sick and hoarse with a bad cold" (7MR 288.4). Of one campmeeting where she was staying in a tent, she writes: "I was not well any of the time. My cold was very severe. The discharges from my head were fearful, yet I labored carefully and did not break down. I had very great freedom in speaking. The Lord has sustained me." {5MR 59.1}

Obviously, Mrs. White herself would have been turned away at the door of most of our churches today--at least while she was sick, and she was sick quite a lot.

While God's prophets can speak with a severe cold, and receive no instruction from God that they should self-isolate, nor that any "lesser" citizen of God's kingdom should do so when sick; while Ellen White writes copiously on the subject of health, and yet says nothing at all on the topic of "social distancing," or the closure of churches, or the cancelation of meetings because one attendee might be sick; and while the Bible says we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, especially as we see the end drawing near (see Hebrews 10:25)--our church leaders have decided, without any support from a "thus saith the Lord," to promote the fear-driven campaign of the government.

And Ellen White, almost uncharacteristically, criticized the government's procedures relative to quarantine in her day. She writes about the fumigation "farce" to which she was subjected.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
We entered San Francisco Harbor at ten o?clock Thursday night. The steamer anchored in the harbor till the morning, and then a tug boat took the Sydney passengers to the quarantine station. We went through the farce, for such it was, of having the things in our trunks fumigated. But the first class passengers were not so strictly dealt with as those of the second-class, and I belonged to the first-class. The clergyman I have referred to was helplessly drunk when we reached the quarantine station, and two men carried him to a room in the restaurant. There he lay on a settee, while [his] wife bathed his head. {Lt133-1900.11}



Willie White, Ellen White's son, had his own comments regarding quarantine (in those days it was for the smallpox), as revealed in the Ellen White biographical resources:

Quote
On Sunday morning, their fourth day out, the Moana was steaming down the east coast of New Zealand, past Great Barrier Island and into Auckland harbor. At ten-thirty the ship dropped anchor opposite the quarantine station. Some of the sailors rowed over in a small boat, leaving the passengers in suspense about the possibility of going ashore. Willie was disappointed because he had hoped to see some of his friends from Auckland. ?Here we lie,? he wrote. ?We cannot go ashore, and thus far no one has come to speak to us. It is a big lot of humbug, this quarantine business.??15 WCW, p. 861. {5BIO 18.1}


"A big lot of humbug"! Interesting wording--certainly this shows his feelings about it. I'm sure if his mother had favored quarantines, he might not have expressed things this way, for Willie White very much followed her instruction--and they were traveling together by ship when both of their comments were made; Willie with his wife and children.

The Webster's 1913 Dictionary has this definition:

Originally Posted by Webster's 1913 Dictionary
Hum′bug′, n. [Prob. fr. hum to impose on, deceive + bug a frightful object.] 1. An imposition under fair pretenses; something contrived in order to deceive and mislead; a trick by cajolery; a hoax.
2. A spirit of deception; cajolery; trickishness.
3. One who deceives or misleads; a deceitful or trickish fellow; an impostor. Sir J. Stephen.


So both Willie and Ellen White thought of such things as fumigation and quarantine as being of no value--deceptive, even.

Something to think about.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/12/20 11:52 PM

Lockdown, the greatest 21st century hoax!

Green, While I believe we all know this lockdown social distancing was a made up hoax, do you find anywhere that Ellen White defied such quarantine rules?

As an aside, do you realize some get a few inches more (or less) requirements? 2 meters < > 6 feet. Which is the correct distance, that is, has it been scientifically tested? I highly doubt it.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 12:00 AM

Germ theory or soil theory?

Sounds like Ellen White believed in the soil/terrain theory.

Coronavirus Crisis Reopens 150-Year-Old Controversy
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 01:48 PM

Well, whatever, lockdown and quarantine were working until folks decided enough was enough. now the numbers are increasing again.
Cant for the life of me understand what you two are on about. If someone is ill, and it's contagious, and you get around them, there a good possibility you will get whatever it is, unless perhaps your immune system is strong. That is how stuff spreads--c'mon. We don't sneeze on people, we cover our mouths when we cough, we wash our hands. There is a reason for doing those. How is lockdown hurting--it isn't. And social distancing is fine-this thing is respiratory--sneezing or coughing spreads it.
Look at the numbers in the US-- we have a ton of positive tests. It went down, now it's going back up because a lot of people in this country think their rights are being violated if they have to wear a mask--it is ridiculous. How did New Zealand get to zero? Were they picked out to make it look like the "hoax" is legit? Sneaky, sneaky. laugh
While we're at it, I don't understand the hoax thing either--looking under every rock to find a conspiracy and congratulating yourselves on being masters of the universe when you "find" it. laugh I would look at the work at Battle Creek Sanitarium instead of finding stuff Willie said and bank on it.
I don't give a hang what Willie said, he was not a prophet.

Posted By: Green Cochoa

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Theophilus
Well, whatever, lockdown and quarantine were working until folks decided enough was enough. now the numbers are increasing again.
Cant for the life of me understand what you two are on about. If someone is ill, and it's contagious, and you get around them, there a good possibility you will get whatever it is, unless perhaps your immune system is strong. That is how stuff spreads--c'mon. We don't sneeze on people, we cover our mouths when we cough, we wash our hands. There is a reason for doing those. How is lockdown hurting--it isn't. And social distancing is fine-this thing is respiratory--sneezing or coughing spreads it.
Look at the numbers in the US-- we have a ton of positive tests. It went down, now it's going back up because a lot of people in this country think their rights are being violated if they have to wear a mask--it is ridiculous. How did New Zealand get to zero? Were they picked out to make it look like the "hoax" is legit? Sneaky, sneaky. laugh
While we're at it, I don't understand the hoax thing either--looking under every rock to find a conspiracy and congratulating yourselves on being masters of the universe when you "find" it. laugh I would look at the work at Battle Creek Sanitarium instead of finding stuff Willie said and bank on it.
I don't give a hang what Willie said, he was not a prophet.



Mrs. White did not actually, as a prophet, address the issue of quarantine, fumigation, etc. Her comments were not given as testimony from God, and were not published by her. So far as I am aware, we have no inspired commentary on the matter--at least not directly. What we have from inspiration is, however, quite clear enough in presenting certain principles of the matter. According to the Bible, if we live in obedience to God's commandments, none of the diseases of the "Egyptians" (the unbelievers) will be upon us. That was God's promise.

We also have Psalm 91.

We also have 2 Chronicles 7:13-14.

And many more like promises.

As Mrs. White, under inspiration, wrote: "All His biddings are enablings." {COL 333.1} If God, therefore, bids us, as He does indeed do, to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, He will certainly enable us to follow His bidding.

"Be not faithless, but believing." -- Jesus' words to doubting Thomas (see John 20:27).

The principle of faith instead of fear is found throughout the Bible. Jesus commanded us not to worry even about what we would eat tomorrow--something I need to remember as I am currently financially isolated (no one back home can send me money, even if they have it and want to) and have no promise of a paycheck in the near future. He says multiple times in John chapter 14 not to be afraid. If the Healer is on our side, who can be against us?

Cough in my face while infected with COVID-19 if you wish. I am honestly not afraid. As a consequence, I was the only one from my local church here to visit an elder who had been hospitalized with a cough and fever. Everyone else in the church, including the pastor, stayed away--afraid of COVID. What kind of witness for God is this? Do you suppose that Jesus would have stayed away on account of COVID? Why do Christians usually like to ask that question of "what would Jesus do (WWJD)?" Isn't it because we would like to do the same thing that He would do?

Are we still Christians?

Something more to think about.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 02:43 PM

laugh

Why do we even have health laws?

I don't have a problem about you saying you are not fearful. There is nothing wrong however, with hygiene. And why such a strong health message from our church? We could OTOH, throw the whole thing out, and just say don't be afraid, and heck with the hospitals, and all of the stuff written about medical missionaries, etc.

The Beloved ruler of the Universe knows man and animal will get ill from a myriad of things. Do you remember the Biblical health laws?

Just because someone doesn't want Covid in the face (God wouldn't want you coughed on either, c'mon) don't say someone is not Christian because they aren't practicing your faith the way you do.
Posted By: Green Cochoa

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Theophilus
laugh

Why do we even have health laws?

I don't have a problem about you saying you are not fearful. There is nothing wrong however, with hygiene. And why such a strong health message from our church? We could OTOH, throw the whole thing out, and just say don't be afraid, and heck with the hospitals, and all of the stuff written about medical missionaries, etc.

The Beloved ruler of the Universe knows man and animal will get ill from a myriad of things. Do you remember the Biblical health laws?

Just because someone doesn't want Covid in the face (God wouldn't want you coughed on either, c'mon) don't say someone is not Christian because they aren't practicing your faith the way you do.


Theophilus,

This is life-or-death important. Eternal life, at that. Consider this verse, contemplatively:

Originally Posted by The Holy Bible
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)


Notice which group of people get the very first mention in that list?

If we have fear, we do not have faith. And without faith, it is impossible to please God (see Hebrews 11:6).

If we define as "Christians" those who harbor fear in their hearts, and who choose to give up their sweet fellowship in church with other believers in order to protect themselves and save their own lives, then we perhaps have an incongruence in our beliefs--because such "Christians" (in name only) will be outside of the city with other commandment-breakers.

Let us not forget the following verse:

Originally Posted by The Holy Bible
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. (Matthew 16:25)


Those trying to save their lives will get only this earthly one; they will lose out on eternity. Those willing to expend (lose) their temporal lives for Jesus' sake will gain eternity. If being a Christian means exposing oneself to COVID, or any other danger, for the sake of helping a fellow human being, then Christians must be prepared to do just that. Again, what would Jesus do?

We know what Jesus would do: It's on record for all to see. He touched the leper. He touched the dead. He allowed the "unclean" to touch Him. He spat on dirt to make mud, then rubbed it on someone's blind eyes. I suppose nowadays someone could go to jail for such a "crime."

Jesus does not look at sickness in the same light that we do. He knows His power to heal. Are we acquainted with that power? Only if we know Him, as it is our privilege to do.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 03:48 PM

The Bible verse you chose has nothing to do with the topic.We both know why you are complaining. It's because you can't go to church. As for fear, do you lock your doors at night? Wash your hands? Refrigerate your food? You are not supposed to fear in that you know Christ is with you. He fully expects you to exercise good judgement. Again, He had the Israelites stay inside when the angel of death passed over. Had they "exercised faith" and gone outside, they would've been killed for tempting God.

I maintain that if you had the faith you say you have, wouldn't be complaining.
Tell the Lord you want to back to church or maybe if He could direct you to a small group for Bible study.

This church has a work to do--and i mean church as SDA everywhere. We have to spread the Gospel. We have been lax, and if this thing hadn't of happened, we would still be lax, and not considered the times in the way were were before. Are you a member of any FB groups where you all can study together?

I'm going to go exercise my "lack of faith" and watch some Bible videos and I might get a pb and J. There are so many many sermons. I came back to church because of Stephen Bohr and Walter Veith.

I hope your Sabbath is good.
Posted By: Green Cochoa

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/13/20 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Theophilus
The Bible verse you chose has nothing to do with the topic.We both know why you are complaining. It's because you can't go to church. As for fear, do you lock your doors at night?

Funny you should ask. I just had the church folk who dropped me off at my house today asking me why I didn't lock my gate--were there not any thieves around? they wondered. I told them that if there were any, perhaps God is protecting me from them. On the other hand, I'd rather have the thief make off with my motorcycle than do something worse.

No, I don't lock my doors at night. And I take long walks, alone, at night, too--without a stitch of fear. One time, about 10:30 p.m. a few weeks ago, a motorcycle stopped beside me and the rider asked me where I was going. I told him. He said, "Oh, that's a long ways--ride with me and I'll take you there." I still had about 3-4 kilometers to go to get home, but I enjoyed the exercise and had no fear of harm, so I politely refused. He told me that someone had recently been killed along that road--it didn't sway me. In fact, if indeed the place were at all unsafe, why should I have trusted him? He finally begrudgingly left without me. I made it home just fine.

Fear is for the birds.

I do fear one thing: That I would dishonor God. Mrs. White tells us that "We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and his teaching in our past history."

Let us, therefore, be afraid of forgetting what God has done for us.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
Wash your hands? Refrigerate your food?

I am entirely missing your meaning here. How do these things apply? To be honest, I am NOT using the sanitizing gel that everyone is told they're supposed to use. I have yet to use any in this country since the "outbreak." I don't use a mask, either. Nor did I wear a mask when visiting the sick elder in the hospital. In fact, I have spent hours in the region's designated COVID hospital where patients were sick with it, with no mask, no handwashing, and . . . I'm still alive to tell the story! I didn't even come down with the slightest symptom of it.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
You are not supposed to fear in that you know Christ is with you. He fully expects you to exercise good judgement.

Yes, I agree. God expects us to use good judgment. That is exactly why I'm choosing to trust a "thus saith the Lord" over and above a "thus saith the World Health Organization (WHO)." I can accept no "thus saith the government" over any divine precept; nor even a "thus saith the church." Give me the Bible. The Bible says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, and that simply is not fulfilled via "social distancing." The two objectives are exactly opposite. The angel told Ellen White that God's people are to "Press together. Press together. Press together!"


Originally Posted by Theophilus
Again, He had the Israelites stay inside when the angel of death passed over. Had they "exercised faith" and gone outside, they would've been killed for tempting God.

Their faith was in the blood of the lamb which was on their doorposts. This had nothing to do with sickness. It had everything to do with putting their trust in God's salvation. Note that the Egyptians were slain even when they stayed inside--so the fact of being indoors had nothing to do with this--as I believe you already knew. You'll have to come up with something that is actually valid if you wish to prove something from scripture.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
I maintain that if you had the faith you say you have, wouldn't be complaining.
Tell the Lord you want to back to church or maybe if He could direct you to a small group for Bible study.

God is ahead of you. I've been attending a small group "church" now for at least a month and a half. If I had not found this group, I don't know where I'd be. Praise God for their fellowship! No masks at church, no talk of COVID, no gel, no fear. Just plain old-fashioned worship in sincerity and truth. My old church reopened nearly a month ago. I have no interest in going back. They still have temperature checks at the door, require masks and hand sanitizing, demand a 2-meter social distancing, and limit to a quota of 50 persons in the sanctuary. One person I know was turned away for a low-grade fever which had nothing to do with COVID. Is "Christian fear" the "new normal"? I'm certainly not wishing to have any part of such.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
This church has a work to do--and i mean church as SDA everywhere. We have to spread the Gospel. We have been lax, and if this thing hadn't of happened, we would still be lax, and not considered the times in the way were were before. Are you a member of any FB groups where you all can study together?

I'm going to go exercise my "lack of faith" and watch some Bible videos and I might get a pb and J. There are so many many sermons. I came back to church because of Stephen Bohr and Walter Veith.

I hope your Sabbath is good.



My Sabbath is well past. I am not on FaceBook--I've never had an account there and don't plan on getting one. There are some legitimate reasons for me to steer clear of that sort of social media, given my location and my work. I prefer to lay low in terms of my online presence, particularly with respect to revealing who my circle of friends is.

Hope you have a good Sabbath there.

Green Cochoa.
Posted By: dedication

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/14/20 06:21 AM

The lock down serves to destroy America's economy. Trump opposed it and was highly criticized.

Lock down was a legal action -- a show of command and force.

Now -- the disease is real enough, and it can be deadly for people whose bodies don't have a strong immune system. But that was equally true of the past flu scares in which thousands of people also died. Precautions are a GOOD IDEA -- precautions should be recommended to everyone. Good hygiene, staying away from coughing, sneezing people -- etc.

But don't go locking up all the healthy people, destroying their jobs, taking away their right to get medical treatment in hospitals for all the other non-covid ailments stopping all funerals and weddings, and other gatherings. Denying graduate ceremonies. Keep families apart simply because they lived in different residences. Fining kids for throwing a ball in a park.

That really wasn't necessary.
There should have been only precautionary guidelines like
sanitizing, washing of hands, avoid too close contact with those showing symptoms, get fresh air, build up immune system. Guidelines NOT not lock downs.

The legislation really is very arbitrary -- which is very obvious now.
In one city, thousands of protesters crowd the streets and NOTHING is done because it is their "RIGHT"????? But in a park, on the same day, in the same town a couple mothers took their kids to a play park and were FINED.
So the only "right" of congregating that is still respected, is
-- the right to protest political stuff, and to riot, steal, and destroy?????


--

Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/15/20 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Theophilus
Well, whatever, lockdown and quarantine were working until folks decided enough was enough. now the numbers are increasing again.
And the numbers are?

Have you noticed the "flattening the curve" gives no numbers? Would that mean it's based upon artistic conjecture rather than scientific facts of numbers?

Quote
Cant for the life of me understand what you two are on about. If someone is ill, and it's contagious, and you get around them, there a good possibility you will get whatever it is, unless perhaps your immune system is strong.
And as others have pointed out, that's the problem. They aren't quarantining ill contagious people, but healthy people. Why? They didn't with last year's flu. Why this year's?

Quote
How is lockdown hurting--it isn't.
Better ask that of those who have had no job for the past several months, and threatened being evicted.
Better ask those landlords where they can't evict non-paying tenants but still have to meet their mortgage payments.
Better check around and see all the harm that is being done.
But I'm glad you are not experiencing any.
Quote

And social distancing is fine-this thing is respiratory--sneezing or coughing spreads it.
Could you show the scientific study of how the proper distance was determined?
How was the number of people in public places arrived at?
Do you really think limiting to 10, 25, 50 people would really stop the spread?

Quote
Look at the numbers in the US-- we have a ton of positive tests.
How many?
Compare that with how many get the flu each year?

Quote
It went down, now it's going back up because
Was that a scientifically arrived at conclusion or speculation?
I might sound like coming across wrong, but should we not critically think about these things?
Ever hear the advertisement that this product is better because it has "more"?
You should instantly ask, "more what?"

According to the Governor, the rise is due to increased testing.


Quote
to find a conspiracy
For me to believe it's not a conspiracy, would require them not saying there's an "outbreak" and then finding out that there were 2 people.
Not saying
resurgence of coronavirus cases across the country
and finding they "didn?t specify the number of cases linked to the party". What, 2 people, 4 people?
No talk of "surge", "wave", "soaring", "disastrous cluster" (3 deaths) when we're talking about minimum numbers in absolute terms, and a fraction of what happens in past flu years, and heart disease, and drunk driving, etc., etc.
Does the arbitrary social distancing prevent disease from spreading?
Or does wearing masks prevent disease from spreading?
So if either prevent disease from spreading, then if you have the disease, wear a mask and maintain the distance, you should be free to go anywhere, right?
Not building whole new wings of a hospital and never having a patient in those wings, and having no current virus patients and having treated less than a dozen over the whole time.

These are a few reasons why I see the whole lockdown as a hoax. Especially when in October, they got together to practice for a pandemic, and lo and behold, we have something to put to a "live exercise". A "solution" looking for a problem.

Theophilus, do you think there is a slightest possibility you are reacting just as they want people to react? No checking of the actual numbers. Do you think you are being groomed for "the second wave", and all that's being planned starting this fall? Conditioned that locking up healthy people is prudent and proper, STAFF EDIT
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/15/20 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by dedication

The legislation really is very arbitrary -- which is very obvious now.
In one city, thousands of protesters crowd the streets and NOTHING is done because it is their "RIGHT"????? But in a park, on the same day, in the same town a couple mothers took their kids to a play park and were FINED.
So the only "right" of congregating that is still respected, is
-- the right to protest political stuff, and to riot, steal, and destroy?????

Guess if you're sitting at a park bench, tell the officer you are protesting the lockdown.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/15/20 12:37 AM

Is the government's purpose to protect our health?

If so, then what about shutting down all alcohol beverages?
What about banning all junk food. New York tried to make a profit on it.

I don't see protecting our health is a government's job. Building roads seems like a good thing.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/15/20 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
I've been attending a small group "church" now for at least a month and a half. If I had not found this group, I don't know where I'd be. Praise God for their fellowship! No masks at church, no talk of COVID, no gel, no fear. Just plain old-fashioned worship in sincerity and truth.
What's really pitiful is I've heard that some churches are meeting, but the pastor is scared and stays home.
What's going to happen when they pass the sunday laws?
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/16/20 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Theophilus
How is lockdown hurting--it isn't.

How would it hurt to just say that those who are fearful and worry about dying to stay home, and let the rest of us to go about life?
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/19/20 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by kland
Germ theory or soil theory?

Sounds like Ellen White believed in the soil/terrain theory.

Coronavirus Crisis Reopens 150-Year-Old Controversy


Kland, thank you for the excellent linked article! The linked Vitamin D Institute page, inside of the article, is extremely informative!
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/20/20 02:10 AM

I do not think it is a hoax, nor do I believe I'm overreacting and all the sheeple bunk.

When we are talking about COVID what the best thing to look at is the R naught number.

What the R number is is the exponential growth, more or less.

Initially, COVID was about 3.5 , meaning that if 1 person was infected, he/she would infect 3.5 more, and each of those 3.5 more. You can see the spread--it would be quick and affect a lot of people.

OTOH, flu usually has an R of 1.3--so every person who got flu would infect 1.3 people. If it is a bad flu year, R would be higher.

The goal is to get the R value at 1 or<1

The masks are necessary to protect others. The social distancing has been calculated at 6 ft because a sneeze or cough will dissipate a lot through that distance.

If we all run back to church without proper procedure in place, we run the risk or getting the virus and giving it to loved ones.

If we are masking and social distancing, it would be ok for some to attend church. I would assume the seating would have to moved round to accomodate..I am not going however, not until the R value gets lower. I think that is a good decision for me--doesn't make me a sheeple--

It was going down, but some folks overdid the running back out, and it is increasing the amount of infection.



I already talked about the Angel of Death, and the children of Israel staying inside. Also know, Our Lord said there would be pestilences. Remember the flu of 1918? R was 1.4-2.8. I read in Copenhagen it got as high as 5.

This is what there was a "just in case" pandemic model created for: to use in the event of a problem such at this. Things move around the world more quickly these days. And we are gonna have more pestilences, too. Jesus put an "s" on pestilence, so it's plural.

We just need to get the R value down to 1 or less, and we'll be fine.

What I have presented here is sound to me.
Posted By: ProdigalOne

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/20/20 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Theophilus
I do not think it is a hoax, nor do I believe I'm overreacting and all the sheeple bunk.

When we are talking about COVID what the best thing to look at is the R naught number.

What the R number is is the exponential growth, more or less.

Initially, COVID was about 3.5 , meaning that if 1 person was infected, he/she would infect 3.5 more, and each of those 3.5 more. You can see the spread--it would be quick and affect a lot of people.

OTOH, flu usually has an R of 1.3--so every person who got flu would infect 1.3 people. If it is a bad flu year, R would be higher.

The goal is to get the R value at 1 or<1

The masks are necessary to protect others. The social distancing has been calculated at 6 ft because a sneeze or cough will dissipate a lot through that distance.

If we all run back to church without proper procedure in place, we run the risk or getting the virus and giving it to loved ones.

If we are masking and social distancing, it would be ok for some to attend church. I would assume the seating would have to moved round to accomodate..I am not going however, not until the R value gets lower. I think that is a good decision for me--doesn't make me a sheeple--

It was going down, but some folks overdid the running back out, and it is increasing the amount of infection.



I already talked about the Angel of Death, and the children of Israel staying inside. Also know, Our Lord said there would be pestilences. Remember the flu of 1918? R was 1.4-2.8. I read in Copenhagen it got as high as 5.

This is what there was a "just in case" pandemic model created for: to use in the event of a problem such at this. Things move around the world more quickly these days. And we are gonna have more pestilences, too. Jesus put an "s" on pestilence, so it's plural.

We just need to get the R value down to 1 or less, and we'll be fine.

What I have presented here is sound to me. I don't see any sheeple.



You are assuming the rulers of this world are not lying to you.
It is interesting that straying from the official narrative has gotten many people censored on facebook, youtube, etc...
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/20/20 04:33 PM

. Jesus said there would be pestilences
What in the world is wrong with you?
Oh, and no one is lying to you, right? Who is lying to me? What are you talking about? Did you understand the rational of the exponential growth? If it is going to be mild, the person will infect less people. The R factor is the exponent. Don't you remember this from school? How exponents work? (insert slap my head emoji)
This has got to be the stupidest stuff I've seen from Adventists who are supposed to be rational and logical. You guys are complaining about not being able to go to church, when you could full well be doing something about it. Again, are you exercising faith in God? NOPE! You are as grumbly as the children of Israel. Did you ask the Lord what He wants you to do? NOPE! Someone said that in the latter days (these are the latter days) that Sister White said we will be studying in small groups. Did you ask the Lord for a study group? NOPE!
I miss the fellowship too, but there will be a time when you have to stand alone. Are you ready for it? I know I'm not, and I need to be.

Why dont you form a plan to study during these times?

We have a message for the world, and it's not something loopy.
Does the censoring on you tube and facebook have anything to do with Q?

Are you guys Q?

Please do me a favor. On this board we have an ignore function. I urge you to put me on it **********Remember --ignore Theophilus.********
I came to this board because there are lots of interesting studies on Biblical things.

I will return the favor.
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/20/20 05:04 PM

Some people get viruses and they dont affect them but they can pass them along The mask is to protect another, not yourself. I sure hope you haven't infected anyone. Using hand gel is not a denial of faith. It serves to kill germs. We have more diseases now.


Dos mas.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/20/20 07:54 PM

We are taking advantage of the situation by holding prayer meetings, our Sabbath School Lesson Discussion, etc, via platforms such as Zoom, which is including those who were unable to go to church prior to this on account of other issues, who are benefiting from using platforms like Zoom to pray, study, and fellowship together.

Let us not chastise anybody here for thinking differently than we do, but to rather encourage one another as we see the Day of His Second Coming approaching.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/21/20 09:46 PM

Theophilus, help my unbelief. It would help if these beliefs were science based.

Show us science based journal articles to support your beliefs, and maybe we can accept them. Right now, I see so many lies and inconsistencies about this year's flu virus that I have a hard time believing this pandemonium.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
What the R number is is the exponential growth, more or less.
I could not find anything about exponential. I found it as a multiplier. Could you show us a journal article where it shows how it was calculated?

Quote
The masks are necessary to protect others.
But if people who are afraid, stay home, then it's not necessary, right?
Show a journal article of an experimental study showing that masks prevent transmission of disease.

Quote
The social distancing has been calculated at 6 ft because a sneeze or cough will dissipate a lot through that distance.
Show a journal article of an experimental study showing that 6 feet protects people and not 3 feet, nor 5 feet.

We were told initially not to wear masks. Now we are told to wear them.
Were they lying to us before or are they lying to us now?

If masks prevent the spread of disease, then we don't need to maintain 6 feet, right?
And if 6 feet prevent the spread of disease, then we don't need to wear masks, right?
And if someone has the flu, and wears a mask and/or maintains 6 feet, they don't need to be quarantined, right?

Which one they tell us to do is the lie?

If you have not found and read any journal articles where experimental studies have been performed determining these such specifics, than ask yourself this:

Is your belief science based or media based?
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/21/20 11:16 PM

Here you go. You can cut it out with the media thing. Media is books, airwaves, signs, and forums. So?Where do you get your information? yay I just happen to go more to study to see what was going on. That I'm not thoroughly PO'd with the world because I have to stay home is the least of my worries. I find it funny that you guys get in a wringer because you have to wait to go to church. First world problems.

OTOH,Im supposed to crawl all over the earth finding stuff for you or explaining something that should be easy for you to grasp, if you were not so anti information..

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-feet-social-distancing.html

Also r is not a multiplier--more exponential although I think i see what the problem is.

Let's use 3. as the R number and assume that if a virus has an r number of 3 , 1 person will infect 3 people.
Those 3 will infect three more people . That is not 3*3, that is 3 to the third power, which is 27. See the difference?

there are a ton of websites about R you could google all of these, but you prefer to cut on me.

https://www.healthline.com/health/r-nought-reproduction-number




I don't want to have have to deal with being called names or looked down upon and thought of being a person who has no faith.If i say anything, I'm the bad guy.That's funny, too.Don't ask me anymore questions or acknowledge this any further. I am not going to respond anymore. You vex me, and if truth be told, I don't like you.

You might learn something if you google for yourself, somewhere with some academia. I'd steer clear of Breitbart.

I'm going to go somewhere else.

wave

Oh and chastise away for the tenor of this post. I have asked to be removed as a member. This post may be just the ticket!!!! wave

Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 01:39 AM

Guess I hit a nerve by asking for science to back it up.
Journal articles. Materials and methods. Can you present some?
Is that a bad request?
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 02:07 AM

I already did. You are a troll.
Posted By: Green Cochoa

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 03:32 AM

Theophilus shows us the reason we need to assemble in person. The warmth of a smile and a handshake can melt away the suspicions we naturally might tend to have of each other otherwise. Online contacts, such as here, can never equal personal contact. We NEED to gather together. Isolation breeds loneliness and negativity. Online contacts do little, if anything, to mitigate this.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 01:52 PM

The Bible does have something to say about being quarantined.

Take for instance the following:

Quote
Lev 12:4 ESV Then she shall continue for thirty-three days in the blood of her purifying. She shall not touch anything holy, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying are completed.
Lev 12:5 ESV But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation. And she shall continue in the blood of her purifying for sixty-six days.

Lev 12:4 KJV? And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.?
Lev 12:5 KJV? But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.?


This sounds like periods of being quarantined to me; one period being for 33 days and another period being for 66 days in which the person under quarantine wasn't even allowed to enter the sanctuary.
Posted By: Theophilus

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 02:30 PM

I have a mistake in my post 192619 above which i am not able to edit.
For the example R=3 (R is the exponent)


1 person affects 3 people.
Those 3 affect 3 people which makes 9 people affected.

those 9 affect 3 each making it 27.. and so on. This is exponential

3^1=3
3^2=9
3^3=27

The ideal is to get R to 1 or <1

https://www.healthline.com/health/r-nought-reproduction-number
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Daryl
The Bible does have something to say about being quarantined.

Take for instance the following:

Quote
Lev 12:4 ESV Then she shall continue for thirty-three days in the blood of her purifying. She shall not touch anything holy, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying are completed.
Lev 12:5 ESV But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation. And she shall continue in the blood of her purifying for sixty-six days.

Lev 12:4 KJV? And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.?
Lev 12:5 KJV? But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.?


This sounds like periods of being quarantined to me; one period being for 33 days and another period being for 66 days in which the person under quarantine wasn't even allowed to enter the sanctuary.

The differences are, the woman was considered unclean/unpure for a certain condition. The quarantine was for a limited and specified time.

How does that compare with this year's flu "quarantine"?
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 04:06 PM

What if everyone were to ware one of these masks?
What happens if Hong Kong court upholds mask ban amid coronavirus pandemic?
Posted By: Daryl

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 04:20 PM

A quarantine is a quarantine no matter what the reason is for the quarantine.
Posted By: Daryl

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 04:22 PM

As far as the number of days of the quarantine, that is also irrelevant.

Our churches here have been shut down for 90 days and are now able to re-open.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Daryl
A quarantine is a quarantine no matter what the reason is for the quarantine.

What would be the reason for "quarantining" healthy people?
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Daryl
As far as the number of days of the quarantine, that is also irrelevant.

Our churches here have been shut down for 90 days and are now able to re-open.
Except in the Bible, the women knew how long at the beginning. We did not and do not know.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/22/20 10:30 PM

I was going to quote the definition,
-- 1. A sanitary measure to prevent the spread of a contagious plague by isolating those believed or feared to be infected.

But now I see, either I didn't know about, or they have added, another definition,
-- 4. a state of enforced isolation

But, either way, not like in the Bible. One lets the people know ahead of time, and only those deemed unclean. The other looks like for enforcing the idea of subjection, being under their whim.
Posted By: Green Cochoa

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/23/20 01:54 AM

Women staying at home after childbirth was not a quarantine, because their family members still came and went. A quarantine means cutting off any such transmissible contact. For the women, it was just a necessary rest and recovery period, and it may have something to do with the fact that the baby's immune system is not yet well-developed, and therefore should not be handled by all and sundry, subjected to their fondling, their kisses, etc. It might also have something to do with the fact that the baby is still feeling very insecure, and this "mommy time" is necessary for its emotional well-being.

It might also be simply a symbolic measure intended to have prophetic significance for us.

Consider: In prophecy, a woman is a church. In prophecy, the man-child represents Jesus. In prophecy, a day equals a year. Put that all together, now. Jesus is born; 33 days = 33 years --> leading to the end of His stay on earth.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Christ had sojourned in the world for thirty-three years; He had endured its scorn, insult, and mockery; He had been rejected and crucified. Now, when about to ascend to His throne of glory,--as He reviews the ingratitude of the people He came to save,--will He not withdraw from them His sympathy and love? Will not His affections be centered upon that realm where He is appreciated, and where sinless angels wait to do His bidding? No; His promise to those loved ones whom He leaves on earth is, "I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world." Matthew 28:20. {DA 830.2}


Furthermore, consider in evidence the fact that this ceremonial observance ended at the cross. If it were truly necessary for some biological reason, that would seem rather illogical.

That "quarantine" doesn't appear so much like a quarantine after taking this closer look, does it?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
Posted By: kland

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/23/20 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
Women staying at home after childbirth was not a quarantine,
You're right. But it was a "quarantine" from the sanctuary. But nothing related to this year's flu.

Quote
It might also be simply a symbolic measure intended to have prophetic significance for us.
I'd go with that, but not with what you concluded about it.

Quote
Furthermore, consider in evidence the fact that this ceremonial observance ended at the cross. If it were truly necessary for some biological reason, that would seem rather illogical.
Yep. Seems more like conveying the idea the sanctuary is holy.

Quote
That "quarantine" doesn't appear so much like a quarantine after taking this closer look, does it?
Definitely not related to the current one!
Posted By: Daryl

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/24/20 04:14 PM

Romans 13 says that we are to submit to the ruling authorities as long as it doesn't impact our obedience to the Law of God, namely the Ten Commandments.
Posted By: NSPete

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/24/20 07:56 PM

There were some times when the ruling authorities got involved in how we should practise our religion and at which time they were not obeyed.
Such as when Peter and John were preaching in Jerusalem and the authorities...
"...commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard." Acts 4:28-30
Then faced up with the same charges shortly after they met trouble again.
"And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them, Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man?s blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." Acts 5:27-29
So I guess applying our obedience to the authorities only when it impacts our obedience to the law of God might at times have to be widened some to take in a more broad view of how the Ten Commandments might apply in certain cases.
Posted By: NSPete

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick - 06/25/20 10:35 AM

Here is another example. The scriptures tell us and the SOP expands upon the idea and actually exhorts believers to not forsaking the assembly of ourselves together. And this applies even more so in these last days as it says in Hebrews 10:25, "and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Yet the government comes along and forces us to do just the opposite. So God says one thing and the government says the other. We reason that it is for our protection and that of our neighbour that we are not heeding the counsel of God although there is some question as to the real need of this forsaking at all.
Now some may say we are still assembling but just in another way, that is through the wonders of online computer technology. But what about those who do not have access or the skills to take advantage of this method of fellowship?
I used to work as a Bible worker and mostly visited folks who could not attend church for various reasons. It was easy to see that without some sort of church fellowship their spiritual lives were handicapped and they were struggling against the forces of the world to hang on to their relationship to God and the truth.
I would say that Satan knows this is the case and that is why we are admonished to not forsake the assembling in the first place. So all of a sudden this scare comes along about the corona virus, and Satan has just what he wants. I cannot go door to door or visit the shut ins anymore because everyone is so scared that they are going to catch the virus and die. Meanwhile how many are dying from the spiritual disease of sin and we are handcuffed to reach out to help them?
Just something to think about.
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