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Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Elle] #173043
05/05/15 04:57 AM
05/05/15 04:57 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Posts: 2,264
Asia
Elle;
"So the question is are the Feast Days & Sabbaths still binding? These(including the weekly Sabbath) are all are types and shadows. Are we bound to keep these???

For sure a big YES we are bound to keep these spiritually which includes all their related sacrifices. I don't believe any of God's laws were nail to the cross. What was nail to the cross was the extra Jewish laws and all the precepts of man.

I do believe that the form to keep the Sabbaths, the new moons, the Feasts has changed and we are not to keep the literal types and shadows."
(bold emphasis mine)

What does keeping these practices and sacrifices and feasts spiritually mean?!?

I believe we can follow them by faith and live accordingly. Such as the Day of Atonement is present, we should live according to this very solemn time in earth's history.

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: dedication] #173044
05/05/15 05:02 AM
05/05/15 05:02 AM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Elle


Concerning the 7th day Sabbath, I don't believe it is greater than any other Sabbaths or any of the feasts.


And that thought (which is quite common amongst those urging feast keeping) is probably the biggest reason that convinced me this "feast movement" has major problems.

The Creation Sabbath has deep meaning, far beyond the festivals which were added more than 2000 years later because people needed an object lesson to understand the plan of salvation.

Also, those who serve in the temple need the Sabbath just like everyone else. That's why they had 24 orders or divisions of priests. Each order was responsible for ministering during a different week and Sabbath. In this way the priests were able to rest on the majority of the 7th day Sabbath days of the year. Yet they all had to serve on festival sabbaths.

And they were not immortal --
Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:


Excellent post dedication.

I do believe though that spiritually speaking, we should understand the lessons of the typical service and live accordingly.

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Alchemy] #173062
05/06/15 03:13 PM
05/06/15 03:13 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Elle


Concerning the 7th day Sabbath, I don't believe it is greater than any other Sabbaths or any of the feasts.


And that thought (which is quite common amongst those urging feast keeping) is probably the biggest reason that convinced me this "feast movement" has major problems.
Amen! And that is what I'm seeing. You merge them together, diluting the Sabbath, and soon it means nothing. In Israel, they were coming away from paganism. But now I see some going toward paganism.

I see the whole movement to do away with the Sabbath. For example, does this mean what I think it does?
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
I do believe that the form to keep the Sabbaths, the new moons, the Feasts has changed and we are not to keep the literal types and shadows."
Especially taken together with the other thread about sunset and evening. Am I wrong here?

I've seen a feast promoter saying that the Sabbath doesn't begin at sunset, but at sunrise. But not sunrise, sometime before, in the "twilight" of the day. Whether evening twilight, or "dawn" twilight, there is no absolute definite time. It's all subjective to personal feeling of when the Sabbath starts and ends. No rush. No hurry. No burden. No specific demarcation of time. Just whenever you get around to it. They even went further and said "between the evenings" doesn't mean between the evening of the day before and the following day, 24 hours, but it means sometime at one's choosing in the morning until noon. Since the sun is starting to go down after its zenith, that's "evening". Instead of tithe being one tenth of your income and the Sabbath being the larger portion of one seventh of your time, they have reduced it to less than one fourteenth of your time....

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Alchemy] #173063
05/06/15 03:19 PM
05/06/15 03:19 PM
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kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Originally Posted By: Alchemy

For sure a big YES we are bound to keep these spiritually which includes all their related sacrifices. I don't believe any of God's laws were nail to the cross. What was nail to the cross was the extra Jewish laws and all the precepts of man.
What about circumcision? Was that an extra Jewish law or God's law? What about sacrifices?

Why did putting the book of the law in the side of the ark mean?
De 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Does "against thee" here relate to
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: dedication] #173128
05/09/15 12:19 AM
05/09/15 12:19 AM
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Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
Originally Posted By: Elle

Concerning the 7th day Sabbath, I don't believe it is greater than any other Sabbaths or any of the feasts.


And that thought (which is quite common amongst those urging feast keeping) is probably the biggest reason that convinced me this "feast movement" has major problems.

Well I'm not in the Judaiser "feast keeping" movement camp. They are still stuck in the OT view of keeping type and shadows. However, they have nailed to the cross the sacrificial laws as the other SDAs and Christians have done. I don't believe that any laws are nailed to the cross. The literal form of the sacrifices of killing animals have changed to its spiritual meaning and application in our lives as we progress in the path of the plan of salvation. All the instructions and requirements of these sacrifices still remain to be spiritually fulfilled in our body temple. It is still far from these to be fulfilled yet.

I do not advocate keeping the feasts types and shadows, unless you are doing it to get familiar with the law and to try to figure out what are the correspondant spiritual application. Then in that case, keeping the feast is a good exercise to learn. It is also good to keep some aspects of the literal feasts to teach our children as long as the spiritual meanings is the main emphasis and teaching.

Originally Posted By: Dedication
The Creation Sabbath has deep meaning, far beyond the festivals which were added more than 2000 years later because people needed an object lesson to understand the plan of salvation.

As long as you consider all the other Sabbaths with the 7th weekly that the Lord has reveal in scriptures which the focuss is on the plan of salvation and do not blow out of proportion the creation part while ignoring all others. Don't miss out on the Lord's intended message.

Originally Posted By: Dedication
Also, those who serve in the temple need the Sabbath just like everyone else. That's why they had 24 orders or divisions of priests. Each order was responsible for ministering during a different week and Sabbath. In this way the priests were able to rest on the majority of the 7th day Sabbath days of the year. Yet they all had to serve on festival sabbaths.

Did the Lord instruct this 24 divisions in the law? If so, please provide text. I don't seem to recall that. If this is an Jewish addition to the law, then it has no place in this discussion trying to understand the type.

The thing we should always keep in mind is the law (Pentateuch) reveal a type and shadow. The fact the priests worked more on the Sabbath than any other week days reveal some truth. The fact the priests are not included in the law of Jubilee reveal another truth about the Sabbath. The fact the priests in the law and Ezekiel 44-46 have access to linen garments and do not sweat also reveal another truth about the Sabbath.

Originally Posted By: Dedication
And they were not immortal --
Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

Hebrews 7:23 talks about the fallible priests doing the OT literal (type and shadow) services in the OT and compares them to Jesus. Of course those priests were immortal however their types and shadows ministry pointed to the sons of Zadok that Ezekiel 44-46 also points to.

Most Christians (and I think SDAs also) understand Ezekiel 44-46 is pointing to the time of the millennium. During the OT era, yes those priest performing those types and shadows were immortals, however the fulfillment of these after the millennium, these priests will be clothed with immortality. Eze 44(quoted below) says that the corrupt Levites have not access to the linen clothing -- only the sons of Zadok. Zadok means righteousness. The linen garment is the robe of righteousness of the Saints of the Most High. This robe is the immortal and incorruptible garment.

Verse Eze 44:18 says they(sons of Zadok) are not to wear a garment that causes them to sweat like the woolen(dead hair) garment that represents the mortal garment that causes us to SWEAT. After sin, the Lord said to Adam that he will sweat when he works. Mortal men needs to rest (shabath, cease from their work) and have an “intermission” (Shabbath) of time probably because they sweat the other 6 days of the week. When we will be clothed with our linen garment (incorruptible and immortality) we will no longer sweat when we work for the Lord. That’s maybe why, this is symbolized in the type and shadow as the Priests working more on the Sabbath than other days.

Quote:
AV Ezk 44:10 . And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

AV Ezk 44:11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, [having] charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

AV Ezk 44:12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

AV Ezk 44:13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy [place]: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

AV Ezk 44:14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.

AV Ezk 44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:

AV Ezk 44:16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.

AV Ezk 44:17 . And it shall come to pass, [that] when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.

AV Ezk 44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird [themselves] with any thing that causeth sweat.
AV Ezk 44:19 And when they go forth into the utter court, [even] into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Alchemy] #173129
05/09/15 12:44 AM
05/09/15 12:44 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Alchemy
Originally Posted By: Elle

"So the question is are the Feast Days & Sabbaths still binding? These(including the weekly Sabbath) are all are types and shadows. Are we bound to keep these???

For sure a big YES we are bound to keep these spiritually which includes all their related sacrifices. I don't believe any of God's laws were nail to the cross. What was nail to the cross was the extra Jewish laws and all the precepts of man.

I do believe that the form to keep the Sabbaths, the new moons, the Feasts has changed and we are not to keep the literal types and shadows."

(bold emphasis mine)

What does keeping these practices and sacrifices and feasts spiritually mean?!?

I believe we can follow them by faith and live accordingly. Such as the Day of Atonement is present, we should live according to this very solemn time in earth's history.


If your definition of "faith" is the same as Paul's (Rom 10:17 AV Ro 10:17 "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word[u]rhema, utterance] of God.") than you are saying the same things as me when I said that we are to keep the Feasts and the types and shadows of the laws (including the sacrifices) between our ears and inside our temple body. Meaning, whatever the Lord interprets these to be and tells us how to apply these from day to day and what to do at His appointed time -- by following His voice(instructions) we keep His feasts and sacrifices as He fufills them in us.

Originally Posted By: Alchemy
What does keeping these practices and sacrifices and feasts spiritually mean?!?


That's the type of question we should ask. Let's take Pentecost as an example. What does the law teaches about it? what is the sacrifice offered during that feast? Knowing these are types and shadows we need to try to figure out via other scriptures describing the symbolism and try to see the spiritual meanings of these. This would be a good exercise.

Would you like to start by listing the main things that the Law describes as Pentecost?


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Elle] #173135
05/09/15 05:33 PM
05/09/15 05:33 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,153
Brazil
Quote:
I don't believe that any laws are nailed to the cross.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

What "ordinances" were nailed to the cross?

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Elle] #173136
05/09/15 05:41 PM
05/09/15 05:41 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,153
Brazil
Quote:
Did the Lord instruct this 24 divisions in the law? If so, please provide text. I don't seem to recall that. If this is an Jewish addition to the law, then it has no place in this discussion trying to understand the type.

Forgive me for jumping in. The text is 1 Chronicles 24:19.

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Rosangela] #173140
05/09/15 09:38 PM
05/09/15 09:38 PM
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Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Did the Lord instruct this 24 divisions in the law? If so, please provide text. I don't seem to recall that. If this is an Jewish addition to the law, then it has no place in this discussion trying to understand the type.

Forgive me for jumping in. The text is 1 Chronicles 24:19.

Tx for the text Rosangela. Please jump in anytime.

I see that this order was added by David before his death for the new temple. It was not in the law, nevertheless I believe it is also a type and shadow of the coming temple and ministry that Ezekiel talks about.

I don't see in this text any mentions of the purpose of this new order or it being linked to the Sabbath or for the purpose to give some rest to the priests as suggested by dedication. What dedication has said is filling in the gap with a personal interpretation. All we see is a new order with 24 priests. I don't know how many priests there were before hand before this new order. What this means prophetically I don't know but we do see this mirroring the 24 elders around God's throne found in Rev 4. I do know that numbers in the Bible also has meanings and perhaps 24 is the number for the priesthood.

Yet I do not believe this number is to be read literally and is most likely a symbolic representation of the priesthood like 144K is the number representing the overcomers. Twenty four and 144 are multiple of 12 that is shown to be the number representing the government of the kingdom of God.

("Twelve is the number of governmental perfection and divine authority. ... There were 12 sons of Jacob in the Old Testament and 12 apostles in the New Testament. There are 12 foundations in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:14). It also has 12 gates and 12 angels at the gates (Rev. 21:12) and 12 pearls at the gates (Rev. 21:21). The city is foursquare at 12,000 furlongs (Rev. 21:16). The wall is 144 cubits high (Rev. 21:17), which is 12 x 12. All of this is to portray the concept of divine government and order.")


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Rosangela] #173142
05/09/15 10:27 PM
05/09/15 10:27 PM
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Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
I don't believe that any laws are nailed to the cross.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

What "ordinances" were nailed to the cross?


I don't think this is saying that the law was nail to the cross, but instead the decree that was issued against us because we transgressed the law. The law is necessary for teaching purposes and to show us our sins and how far we are from the Lord's perfect righteousness.

Paul also said this about the cross : God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; (2col 5:18). I now see Col 2:14 saying what 2cor 5:18 says of not imputing our tresspasses by cancelling the charge or decree that was against us.

Here's many other translations that suggest this understanding:

Quote:
New International Version
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

New Living Translation
He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.

English Standard Version
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

New American Standard Bible
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.

International Standard Version
having erased the charges that were brought against us, along with their obligations that were hostile to us. He took those charges away when he nailed them to the cross.

NET Bible
He has destroyed what was against us, a certificate of indebtedness expressed in decrees opposed to us. He has taken it away by nailing it to the cross.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And he has blotted out by his authority the bill of our debts which was adverse to us and he took it from the midst and nailed it to his cross.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He did this by erasing the charges that were brought against us by the written laws God had established. He took the charges away by nailing them to the cross.

Jubilee Bible 2000
blotting out the bill of the decrees that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross {Gr. stauro – stake},

American Standard Version
having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

Douay-Rheims Bible
Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the cross:

Weymouth New Testament
The bond, with its requirements, which was in force against us and was hostile to us, He cancelled, and cleared it out of the way, nailing it to His Cross.


To me doing away with any portion of the law makes no sense and goes contrary to what many other scriptures says. For an example Ezekiel 44 & 45 talks about sacrifices and offerings that will be done in the functions of the Zadok priesthood which is FUTUR. It also mentions about the feasts as being kept in the FUTUR.


Blessings
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