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Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10450
12/19/03 11:25 PM
12/19/03 11:25 PM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Today while my prayer partner and friend were talking, she told me about a story in last weeks Primary Treasure (the church paper for primary age) then she read it to me. I am horrified, but not surprised. In this paper, intended for 7-10 year-olds, was a story that was telling children that if they are afraid of monsters in the dark, they should draw a picture of the monster, then tear it up and tell the moster that they have power over the monster (I've forgotten the exact words). The story goes on to tell children in simple terms how to practice visualization, i.e., imagine that you are sitting in Jesus lap, that He is playing ball with you. We aren't talking sanctified imagination thinking about heaven, but a spiritualistic technique called visualization, a technique also taught by Bill Loveless which opens the door of the mind for communication with demons. (I intend to find an extra copy or make a copy of the story, then I will post what it actually says.)

Consider that in our schools most of the science instructors no longer believe in a literal 7 day creation or a world wide flood because scientific discovery doesn't support it. Can you guess who is winning this argument and what direction our church is headed in this? It's not toward creationism. What does this have to do with spiritualism? Pull the plug on creation, and you have nothing to stand on. There is no Saviour, because there was no Creator, therefore no sin, so there is no need of a Saviour. The door is wide open for the evolutionist to believe any spiritualistic theory that appeals to his carnal nature. And what happens to those vulnerable young minds to whom they are presenting their heresies?

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10451
12/20/03 12:07 AM
12/20/03 12:07 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
That's quite a story Daryl. Was the student's teacher aware of what she was doing? I think it would be appropriate to have spoken to the University staff on their research methods. It's not that we have anything to hide. It's a matter of honesty and using the time and effort of the church on something without it's consent. You were being experimented on without consent. I'm not suggesting that a big issue should have been made of it, but a kindly worded objection to the academic dean would have been in order I think.

But it does underscore how easy it is to infiltrate us. The Jesuits and any group that will assume a disguise are using dishonorable methods, methods that are foreign to Christ who said let your yes be yes and your no, no. Paul willingly became all things to all men that he might by all means win some, but neither he nor any of the Apostles lowered themselves to deception. A hallmark of the Christian faith is open, honest, transparent dealing.

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10452
12/20/03 12:12 AM
12/20/03 12:12 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Thanks Will. I think I have a copy of that but have never read it. I'll see if I can find it.

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10453
12/20/03 12:15 AM
12/20/03 12:15 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Let's say that we are riddled with Jesuits and New Age Pastors. And there is a large body of evidence this is a growing problem. What do we do?

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10454
12/20/03 12:34 AM
12/20/03 12:34 AM
Will  Offline
Group: Admin Team
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
That is very scary information Linda. The devil is a lion on the prowl and knows his days are short!
Is there a way for your friend to educate the parents of the kids she teaches on the ill's of this new age visualization technique? That could be a start you know.
God Bless,
Will

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10455
12/20/03 12:52 AM
12/20/03 12:52 AM
Will  Offline
Group: Admin Team
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Good question John. There should be a way to handle this via the GC or the Church manual.
Also test the spirits, but one thing to remember that God has revealed this to us in His Word.

quote:

2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

God Bless,
Will

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10456
12/20/03 01:45 AM
12/20/03 01:45 AM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Will, she's not the teacher. Her son is in primaries. Sadly, the women who teach in that division would probably see nothing wrong with it, even if it were pointed out to them. My friend had started to read the story to her son, but wouldn't finish it for obvious reasons.

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10457
12/20/03 10:44 AM
12/20/03 10:44 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Excellent answer and scripture reference Will. Preach the word, encourage, warn. Leave the results with God. Any other thoughts?

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10458
01/12/04 08:46 PM
01/12/04 08:46 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,874
Nova Scotia, Canada
This idea of infiltration into our church has resurfaced in my mind as a result of things that have come to my attention over the last few days.

The fact that this student was so easily baptized and received into our church fellowship as member for the sole purpose of giving an inside version about our church goes to show how easily it can be done for more sinister reasons.

Our local church here was obviously easily manipulated by this one student, therefore, it tells me that it could also be an easy thing for our church to be infiltrated and manipulated by infiltrators working their way into leadership positions in our corporate church.

I think there are enough EGW quotes out there to warn us that this infiltration is actually going on, however, how does our SDA Church or any other church denomination appropriately respond to this? They are not any more immune to this than we are.

Re: Immorality, the occult and manipulation in the church #10459
01/15/04 08:36 AM
01/15/04 08:36 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
We could learn some lessons from the early church and its experience with the infiltration of Judas and also from the later warnings of the Apostles that wolves would come in among us and ravage the sheep, and look at their counsel on how to respond.

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