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How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? #152309
05/04/13 10:49 AM
05/04/13 10:49 AM
Rick H  Offline
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What specifically according to the Bible is Christ's role in heaven now after His ascension, and how could he act as our advocate and also our judge?

Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: Rick H] #152644
05/27/13 05:07 AM
05/27/13 05:07 AM
T
truthseeker  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15
Colorado, USA
Because He is 100% honest :-)

Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: truthseeker] #152668
05/29/13 03:18 PM
05/29/13 03:18 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Brazil
Perhaps He is our Advocate now and will be our Judge after probation closes?

Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: Rosangela] #152676
05/29/13 07:31 PM
05/29/13 07:31 PM
asygo  Offline
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I think the only way He can do His job is to be both Advocate and Judge at the same time.

An advocate is one who promotes the interests of another. IOW, the advocate wants the best outcome possible for the one for whom he is advocating.

The Greek word for "advocate" in the Bible is "paraklētos." 80% of the time, that is translated "comforter" and is used for the Holy Spirit. From this angle, an advocate is one who does his best to provide comfort. Or IOW, he does his best to prevent you from experiencing discomfort.

So let's say the one being advocated for by Jesus is a born-again saint. What would be the most comfortable, least uncomfortable, best outcome for him? That's easy: eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 6:23)

Now let's say the one being advocated for is an unrepentant sinner. What would be the most comfortable, least uncomfortable, best outcome for him? Would it be eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord? No. God's presence would be torture for him. But since God will be all-encompassing and ever-present when everything is made new, there will be no place for him to hide. The most comfortable outcome for the unrepentant sinner would be the respite of death. (Rom 6:23)

As our Advocate, Jesus wants the best outcome for us, whether it is eternal life or eternal death. As our Judge, He has the power to decide which is which, and effect the best outcome.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: asygo] #152677
05/30/13 05:23 AM
05/30/13 05:23 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Rosangela and Arnold,

Where are your texts to support your thoughts?

It is my understanding that Christ is our Advocate now. The Father is the Judge now. Christ, as our Advocate, pleads His blood on our behalf before the Judge. He cannot be pleading to Himself. That would make no sense at all.

It's a bit like trying to say the Holy Spirit is just a form of God's presence and then trying to explain to me why God needs to translate our prayers to Himself before He can understand them. Obviously, we are talking about two separate Beings here. (See Romans 8:26.)

Likewise, Advocate and Judge are two separate roles which require two separate Beings to take those roles.

Christ is both Advocate and Judge in a different sense--or time, as the case may be. He is now our Advocate. After the investigative judgment is finished, He will then be the Judge for the final judgment. He is the only One who is worthy to open the book with the seven seals as requested in Revelation 5:2. It is later proclaimed of Him "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power...." This appears to be His promotion to Judge, and the time for it is upon opening the book of the seven seals. The seven last plagues follow the opening of the seventh seal.

That, at least, is how I would answer the question.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: Green Cochoa] #152680
05/30/13 10:30 AM
05/30/13 10:30 AM
Rosangela  Offline
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Posts: 6,153
Brazil
Quote:
Christ is both Advocate and Judge in a different sense--or time, as the case may be. He is now our Advocate. After the investigative judgment is finished, He will then be the Judge for the final judgment.

That's what I said, but I said "perhaps" because the Bible says both that "the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son" (John 5:22) and that "And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels" (Rev. 3:5).
But in fact, in ancient Israel there were no prosecutors or defense attorneys; accuser and accused argued their own cases. And, by deciding in its favor, the judge himself was defending the right party.
So I was favorably inclined to Arnold's position, and now I think I've found a passage which seems to confirm its correctness:

Can you, dear youth, look forward with joyful hope and expectation to the time when the Lord, your righteous Judge, shall confess your name before the Father and before the holy angels? {OHC 368.2}

Besides this, there is the classical passage:

And Christ has been made our Judge. The Father is not the Judge. The angels are not. He who took humanity upon Himself, and in this world lived a perfect life, is to judge us. He only can be our Judge. Will you remember this, brethren? Will you remember it, ministers? Will you remember it, fathers and mothers? Christ took humanity that He might be our Judge. CCh, 259

Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: Green Cochoa] #152695
05/31/13 12:13 AM
05/31/13 12:13 AM
asygo  Offline
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California, USA
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Where are your texts to support your thoughts?

Along with R's quotes...

John 5:22
For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,

John 5:26-27
For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

Romans 14:10
For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

2 Timothy 4:1
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

Revelation 19:11
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: asygo] #152706
05/31/13 02:31 PM
05/31/13 02:31 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Some interesting quotes Rosangela presented. There are other quotes that appear to contradict them. This, then, seems to be the core question of this thread. I go back to my "time" interpretation. BOTH the Father and the Son are judges. When Mrs. White speaks of Jesus judging us, it may be in a different sense--for example, we are judged by His perfect character.

Originally Posted By: Ellen White
He who died for the sins of the world was to remain in the tomb the allotted time. He was in that stony prison house as a prisoner of divine justice. He was responsible to the Judge of the universe. He was bearing the sins of the world, and His Father only could release Him. {FLB 50.5}

God permits His Son to be delivered up for our offenses. He Himself assumes toward the Sin-Bearer the character of a judge, divesting Himself of the endearing qualities of a father. {FLB 104.7}

Thus was presented to the prophet's vision the great and solemn day when the characters and the lives of men should pass in review before the Judge of all the earth, and to every man should be rendered “according to his works.” The Ancient of days is God the Father. Says the psalmist, “Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.” [Psalm 90:2.] It is he, the source of all being, and the fountain of all law, that is to preside in the Judgment. And holy angels, as ministers and witnesses, in number “ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands,” attend this great tribunal. {GC88 479.2}


It is interesting that the "Ancient of Days" is declared to be God the Father, and it is He who "is to preside in the Judgment"...the "great tribunal."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: Green Cochoa] #152710
05/31/13 05:51 PM
05/31/13 05:51 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,569
California, USA
Perhaps the work of "judge" is not as compartmentalized as we tend to think. It may be that they are both judges, but in different aspects - not necessarily with respect to time, but to the object being judged.

If we think of what a judge is supposed to do, notwithstanding our frail human approximation to the ideal, then it wouldn't be so strange that the Judge can also be the Advocate. The American system bears little resemblance to it because it requires some level of deceit from the advocates.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: How can Christ be our advocate and judge at the same time? [Re: asygo] #152913
06/06/13 01:45 AM
06/06/13 01:45 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,933
Nova Scotia, Canada
No matter who is the Judge, doesn't both the Father and the Son want us to be with them in Heaven and on the New Earth?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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