Man-kind never set foot on the planetary body known as the 'moon', according to the Bible (KJB), History & Science.

Just because:

N.A.S.A. - Not Always Scientifically Accurate
N.A.S.A. - Never A Straight Answer
N.A.S.A. - Numerous Anomalies Scams Abound
N.A.S.A. - National Academy of Space Actors
N.A.S.A. - Not Anything, Simply Aether,
N.A.S.A. - Neither Aerospace, Sadly, Astro-NOTS!
N.A.S.A. - Never Accept Serpent Assertions.

Saying such does not validate the heresy of 'flat-earth' rhetoric. One error demonstrated (NASA), does not validate an associated error (flat-earth) as true. This thread is not for the purpose of discussion of said erroneous 'flat-earth' (make your own thread, and I will be glad to show from scripture and SoP/ToJ the error of 'flat-earth' in great detail).

The position taken, is a scriptural (KJB), historical and scientific one.

God will never allow man-kind and their sin to leave this planet [world, spheroid, it is the quarantine zone, the sickbed of the universal Hospital [angels, as nurses, Christ Jesus the Great Physician, a leper colony on an island in space, struck off [temporarily] from the continent of heaven, etc], and even now [since the Cross] satan is trapped here, unable to leave [1 Timothy 6:7 (which seems to draw upon Job 1:21 & Ecclesiastes 5:15); Revelation 12:8-13; Romans 5:6 [combined with Revelation 12:10]; 2 Corinthians 4:4 [this world only and no other worldly body in the heavens] KJB].

1 Timothy 6:7? For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.?

Psalms 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Mankind was in Genesis, given dominion (Genesis 1:26,28) over this world, and no others. Mankind in Genesis is never given dominion over any of the Sun, Moon or "stars". Once satan usurped that dominion, he was considered the 'god of this word' (2 Corinthians 4:4) in the place of Adam as the 'god' (who knew good) of this world (Genesis 3:5; Psalms 82:1,6; John 10:34; etc). Only satan could then travel to the third Heaven and back (Job 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Kings 22:19-23; 2 Chronicles 18:18-22) as representative.

Mankind, as well as the devil, does have physical access to "high" (Ephesians 6:12; applying to the natural first) altitude ("power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2;) on this earth, but nothing beyond that. The reach of the devil does not extend to the moon, sun or stars any longer. Yet, he still tries, through mankind, to spread sin to all the unfallen worlds.

The ?space program? (whether from NASA, Space-Ex, or other government and/or private 'space' agencies) is/are actually another system designed by satan based upon the ?tower of babel? reasoning/thought, being another way up into Heaven other than The Way (John 14:6), another ladder other than the Jacob?s Ladder - Jesus Christ. The only way into Heaven now is by vision (Revelation 1:10), or by John 14:1-3.

Some names I may recommend to all (most of which is freely available online to read or watch, consider scientifically).

Bill Kaysing (ex Rocket-Dyne engineer);

James Collier (Was it only a paper moon; an independent reporter);

Bart Sibrel (Astronauts Gone Wild; a (now) Seventh-day Adventist, I have spoken with him);

Ralph Rene (NASA Mooned America);

Marcus Allen (author, speaker with Aulis & Nexus magazine);

David Percy (What happened on the Moon, Analysis; Hall of Mirrors; film and audio/visual expert);

Mary Bennett;

Jim (James) Fetzer;

Jarrah White (Moon Faker, Mars Faker (youtube); independent atheist, be aware of that, but he surely disproved 'Myth Busters' in person);

Richard Hall and fellows;

N.A.S.A. itself (last by not least), and its own material, still available and that which has since been removed, deleted, redacted, etc.

If any need a link to those materials, they can be provided.

Do I agree with everything they have said or done? Of course not. I am only interested in facts, which substantiate the scriptural position.

What I find, especially in these last days of deception (Revelation 12:9, 13:14, 18:23, 19:20, 20:10; 2 Timothy 3:13, etc), is that people trust their fallible eye-witness and fallen reasoning, more than the sure word of Prophecy from God who cannot lie. Mankind instead has believed the lie through the medium (Tele-vision), just as it was in the beginning. Eve truly believed she had entered a higher 'sphere' (world) of experience, when all the while, it was a delusion.

The only way in which a man may be truly "lifted up" (John 3:14, 8:28, 12:32) to Heaven, is not by force of might and strength of arm, willpower and satanic ingenuity, but it is only through Calvary, and dying upon the Cross appointed by God. It is never achieved by exalting (propelling) one's self upward that one gains Heaven and surpassing of earth's bounds, but it is by lowering one self, and humbling one self to the dust, and dying unto the death of the Cross that we are then taken by God and exalted to Heaven. Jesus gave the example:

Php 2:5? Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:?
Php 2:6? Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:?
Php 2:7? But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:?
Php 2:8? And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.?
Php 2:9? Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:?
Php 2:10? That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;?
Php 2:11? And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1) I'm unaware of any flat-earthers posting here.

2) Man being given dominion of this earth does not mean man cannot travel elsewhere. To assume otherwise is to elevate man to dominion in any place he might be, OR to confine him to earth, sin or no sin (the dominion was given him before his fall).

3) Sin is certainly not confined to earth. It started in heaven. It has been present in heaven even after Lucifer and his host were cast out. See, for example, Job 1:6 where Satan himself was in heaven.



Sin is being atoned for in heaven even now, and is recorded there in the books of record. It is the cleansing of the Most Holy Place that is taking place now--in Heaven. Cleansing from what? Sin, of course.

4) The "Forbidden Tree," or the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," exists on every planet. All of God's free-moral beings have a choice whether or not to eat from it.



5) If you argue that Ellen White herself was only present in Heaven or in other worlds in vision, and not physically, what can one say about Enoch, Moses, and Elijah, all of whom were once sinful, mortal earthlings?

6) According to the Bible, mankind has indeed been taken out of this world. Elijah, Moses, and Enoch are all examples of this. This point alone should serve to discredit the theory posited in this thread.



I would truly hope that no one claiming to be a Seventh-day Adventist would choose to argue that God was a master of smoke and mirrors, and that Elijah did not really leave planet Earth.

I see no value in this topic being further discussed, to be honest. Who is man to say what God will or will not do? The assumption that "God will never allow man-kind and their sin to leave this planet" sounds similar to a papal pronouncement. Jesus Himself, though he never sinned, most certainly left this planet in his humanity.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

When light is rejected, darkness follows.

Joh_12:35? Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

Reject what is shared, and it is guaranteed they will follow, and come. I have seen it happen many times. The darkness increases. If they are not already here, they will soon be here. I have told you the truth.

Dominion means stewardship in the context of Genesis and God's blessing to the Man (Adam). Mankind was not given such over anything else, other than the earth. I provided those texts already (see again Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 115:16, etc).

Adam, before sin, represented this world as a "son of God" (Luke 3:38). After his fall, satan so did ("god of this world" - 2 Corinthians 4:4), until Calvary (Revelation 12:10-12; Romans 5:6; AD 31). The "lying spirit", "Satan", as representing this fallen world, could indeed travel, as I gave already (Job 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Kings 22:19-23; 2 Chronicles 18:18-22), but not others. They were all stuck down here in the pit of lions.

Man-kind, being given dominion (king-stewards) of this world, and no others, does indeed reveal that man-kind is not the king-steward of the 'moon', 'sun' or 'stars' above. You do understand what NASA's (etal.) intentions are, correct?, especially by planting a United States "flag" of conquering on the surface of the moon, during the Apollo missions as they made it appear to take place (though no such thing actually happened according to scripture, history and science)? Fallen mankind (so as to be so very clear to you, just in case you fail to understand the context of my words here also) with such fallen flesh nature cannot endure the light (aka 'radiation') of the 2nd Heaven (aka 'space'). Also, they (fallen mankind) could not physically stand in the presence of God in the 3rd Heaven either with being destroyed, consumed. It is also why the wicked are consumed by the brightness of His (Jesus') 2nd coming.

I assumed nothing in my response, though once again, you have misrepresented my response, and did not understand the context in which I wrote. I spoke of sinful mankind in numerous places:

"... God will never allow man-kind and their sin to leave this planet ..."
"... a leper colony ..."
"... mankind, to spread sin ..."

You probably just read "man-kind" and mistook that to mean I think that none of mankind has ever left this earth. How you could think this, when the next words define the man-kind I am referring to, and the final statements are in complete opposition to such an idea, as showing that your response is greatly lacking in simple reading of context:

"... The only way in which a man may be truly "lifted up" (John 3:14, 8:28, 12:32) to Heaven, is not by force of might and strength of arm, willpower and satanic ingenuity, but it is only through Calvary ... Jesus gave the example ... (Philippians 2:5-11 cited)"

I have written several studies on resurrections, and translations, as well as on Enoch, Moses, Elijah, the Firstfruits and Jesus Himself, all of whom are in Heaven (3rd) and have far surpassed the bounds of this world and it's heaven:

Resurrections & Translations In The Bible:

https://archive.org/download/resurr...26%20Translations%20In%20The%20Bible.pdf

Hebrews 11 Enoch These All Died For Jehovah's Witnesses WTS JW:

https://archive.org/download/hebrew...hovah%27s%20Witnesses%20WTS%20-%20JW.pdf

Matthew 27:50-53 The Special Firstfruits Resurrection Of Jerusalem:

https://archive.org/download/matthe...uits%20Resurrection%20of%20Jerusalem.pdf

It is clear that you either do not know how to read in context, or you read my posts with a tremendous amount of bias and negative thinking, and do not prayerfully consider the words I share, but are quick to respond, and rash at that.

I appreciate your ability to respond openly, unlike Daryl who must say and do things secretly (he knows it is true, and it is the reason I am missing a post still - it having not so mysteriously vanished into the aether, though I desire he and I to be on more open terms), but if you would please, take the time to actually read my response, with the verses given, and take some time to think my responses through carefully. If you have any doubts about what I might mean, rather than assuming (as you have done in this and other responses), why not at least ask, or pretend to ask first?

It actually is now.

Yes, and it did not remain there (3rd Heaven; see 1 John 4:18), and like a cancer, or leprosy, was removed, root and branch (Revelation 12:7-9) and separated from the Camp of the Saints in the 3rd Heaven, even '7 days' distance (which 7 days will be seen again in our being taken back to Heaven (3rd), see Leviticus 23:34, and see To the Little Remnant Scattered Abroad April 6, 1846 paragraph 3).

As the ?head? (Lucifer) became infected with sin (white spot (Lev. 13:2) of flesh (carnal); Jud. 1:23) and darkness, his whole ?body? became full of darkness (Mat. 6:22-23; Luk. 11:33-36), and thus being leprous and contagious, had to be removed, even ?cut off? (Exo. 12:19; Lev. 7:21,25, 22:3; Deut. 23:1 (1 Cor. 15:46); Jos. 3:16; 1 Ki. 9:7; 2 Chr. 32:21; Zec. 11:16; Mal. 2:12; Mat. 5:29-30, 18:7-9; Mar. 9:43-48; Rom. 11:22, 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 6:15, 12:12,18,20; Gal. 5:12), from the ?camp of the saints? (New Jerusalem; Rev. 20:9; Lev. 13:46), and placed in the ?wilderness? (Lev. 13:1-59, 14:1-57; Num. 12:10-16), for ?seven days?. Beware that the ?light? in us is really ?light? and not ?darkness? pretending to be ?light?, which is ?lie-ght?.

You can see my study of Revelation 12 here in some detail:

https://archive.org/download/revela...2%80%93%20The%20Great%20Controversy.pptx

See also - The Spirit of Prophecy, Volume 1 (1870), pages 22.2-22.3; see also SR (1947) 18.1-18.2; TA (1996) 43.1-45.4; ST Jan. 9, 1879 par. 9-11; Early Writings (1882); page 145.2; ? The (Sabbath) Review and (Advent) Herald, February 24, 1874; par. 26.

You are confusing time, events and persons. It never said sin did not start in Heaven. I never said satan was never allowed back, and in fact, I explicitly said the opposite, when I said:

"... Once satan usurped that dominion, he was considered the 'god of this word' (2 Corinthians 4:4) in the place of Adam as the 'god' (who knew good) of this world (Genesis 3:5; Psalms 82:1,6; John 10:34; etc). Only satan could then travel to the third Heaven and back (Job 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Kings 22:19-23; 2 Chronicles 18:18-22) as representative. ..."

I stated that not even satan can return after the events of Jesus' death at Calvary in AD 31.

"... Mankind, as well as the devil, does have physical access to "high" (Ephesians 6:12; applying to the natural first) altitude ("power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2;) on this earth, but nothing beyond that. The reach of the devil does not extend to the moon, sun or stars any longer. Yet, he still tries, through mankind, to spread sin to all the unfallen worlds. ..."

Yes, I already noted that in my original response and again in this one. Satan is not (sinful) man-kind is he Green Cochoa? He also cannot return there now after Calvary (AD 31) can he Green Cochoa? What I have stated is quite factual and scriptural and evidenced by the SoP/ToJ also.

Why have you seen fit to respond to my evidences from scripture, as if I never cited the very text you just gave, in the context and time frame it is found therein?

Yes, I already know of those citations, and am in full harmony with them, if only you would more slowly and carefully read my responses in their context. You do seem to have trouble with my responses in particular Green Cochoa.

I do not see anywhere in that citation where sinful mankind 'walked on the moon'. Do you Green Cochoa?

Record books is not the context of my response. It is a non-sequitur. Of course sin is recorded there.

You can see that study here:

Hide and Seek:

https://archive.org/download/hide-seek/Hide%20%26%20Seek.pptx

That sin being recorded is present, is not the physical sinners of man-kind themselves is it Green Cochoa?

Yes, the record books of Heaven are to have the sins of the saints blotted out (future, soon), but the actual sin is in the human heart here on earth. Again, you have given a non-sequitur in response to the context of what I have said.

Choice is not sin. Temptation is not sin. Non-sequitur. Additionally those beings are not man-kind, and they are not fallen. Have you read the context of my response more carefully Green Cochoa? If not, please take the time to go back and do so, and before responding (if you respond) carefully think through the logic your would give. So far, my experience with you, shows that you do not thinking from the beginning to the end on your responses. It is just something I have noticed, and would ask you to consider.

Did you read the first sentence where it clearly said, "The Lord has given me a view of other worlds." That is in vision Green Cochoa, just as I said:

"... The only way into Heaven now is by vision (Revelation 1:10), or by John 14:1-3. ..."

You might ask how do I know that the phrase means a vision? Simple. I read more than just that statement, I read others as well that use the same phrase, as for instance, see Testimonies for the Church, vol. 2, p. 390.2.

I am in harmony with sister White, though you constantly seek to pit me against her. You do not still believe me, when I said, I believe sister White to be the messenger of the LORD and more than a prophet. I do not disagree with her at any point.

Even Paul himself saw Heaven (3rd), 2 Corinthians 12:2,4, by vision, as did John in Revelation, post Calvary. None of that is in question, in the least. Those statements of truth are not in contradiction to what I gave in my original post. In all of sister White's visions, she also never walked on the moon either.

The context of sister White's statement is clear, and I provided another example of the same phrase for your consideration.

Enoch, Moses and Elijah, as well as the Firstfruits and Jesus are of course all in the 3rd Heaven. That was never in question. I provided that evidence in this reply. Enoch and Elijah were translated and given new immortal and glorified bodies of flesh and bones, as well as Moses, the Firstfruits and Jesus after they were resurrected and taken to Heaven. You yourself even provided the same answer when you said, "once sinful, mortal", which means they no longer are, and as such no longer bound by the restriction of the 'leprosy law' and isolation.

Elijah even speaks of requiring a "chariot of fire" (2 Kings 2:11), even the "chariot of Israel" (2 Kings 2:12) from heaven to bring him up. He required the assistance of the angelic hosts sent from God to take him up. Therefore, as I said, sinful man-kind of their own strength, etc cannot so leave this world and it's high altitudes (though satan would have them try to climb up some other way as I said).

You are, in fact, proving my case.

Again, see the context of what I wrote, and see the non-sequitur of this response to it. You simply misunderstood what I said and jumped to respond.

No, it actually proves my point. Thank you for confusing what I said, to doubly prove the point made by the OP. You yourself said that Enoch, Moses and Elijah, "were once sinful, mortal", and this makes my point all the more substantiated.

No argument about Elijah, or the others you mentioned. Those examples do not detract from a single point I made, but are evidences in favor of the points I have made.

I never made any such claim. Read my response over and over as you may you will never find such, unless one is willing to deliberately misread my post and take what I have stated out of the original context. You are not one, I do not think, to do this, I hope.

It is easy to make a statement and then walk away. It is much harder to admit one's error, and to apologize, and/or to respond to a point that has substantial evidence in favor.

The Bible. I said nothing about man. I gave God's word, not my opinion. I also provided names and further material for consideration beyond that of the scriptural evidence, in both history and science.

Read my statement in it's proper context. Papal Rome, is behind a lot of the NASA (etal) deception, for they are in contact with fallen angels even now (even Jesuit Jorge Bergoglio stated in interview), and have much riding upon their own members who promote Big-Bangism, Multi-Verse, Theistic Evolutionism and exploration of the universe through their own adjacent programs and science false-so called. Persons like George Henri LeMaitre, Guy Consolmagno, 'Monsignor' Corrado Balducci, 'Fr.' Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti, and the Mount Graham [Arizona] International Observatory and Vatican Observatory, etc.

Yes, and that was never in question, and I even cited it by Philippians 2.

I am blessed. I have been given truth. I am trying to share that blessing with you.

What is called science today does deny God's work, for example Pslams 19:1 - The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork., and in the book of Genesis there is a description of HOW our world is strucured ie; When God separated the waters from the waters found in Genesis 1:6-9

6 And God said, ?Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.?

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, ?Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear?; and it was so.


Now when we read the account of the Biblical flood, water came from the very deep and from above. There is reference to waters in the heavens in Psalms 148:4:

4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.


I believe we live in an enclosed system, we meaning us humans on earth. By making these Biblical declarations to be viewed as false, heresy, or not in accordance in today's scientific view, one has to look at who is in control of these think tanks and what is there agenda.

Can you imagine if it was widely accepted to know and understand that God created the heavens and the earth, and protected us with a covering from the vacuum of space?

I had watched what I thought was the crashing othe Cassini satellite\orbiter on Saturn or Jupiter, I forgot which, but the video description said it was a live feed, so I decided to see this. It looked like a video game and I was left wondering what was controlling the other camera's that panned into view the supposed crashing of the Cassini craft. Basically it looked fake and well implemented using CGI.

God Bless,
Will

Can you provide a link to the video material (official and original would be best) you are referring to, so that all may see for themselves and judge by the word of God? There are also similar science falsely so called deceptions in regards the Mars 'landers' and video material therein.

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/main/index.html

Time Index 01:45 - 01:58 - "... and on the front of it, is this heat shield, this saucer looking thing, that has about a half-inch of, essentially what's cork on the front of it, which is our heat shield. Now this is really special cork, and this cork is what's going to protect it (us?) from the violent atmospheric entry we're about to experience. ..."

Time Index 02:10 - 02:15 - "... From this point we're going to decelerate from 12,500 miles an hour down to 900 miles an hour ..."

Yes, indeed a "really special cork" that is "half inch" that looks like an "ice cream cone".

How do they decelerate from that velocity, what methods? How much time do they decelerate in?

Want to have a good laugh? Find the answers to those two questions, and then try to repeat that in either real life experimentation, or simulation using real world (assumed Martian) data.

For an interesting consideration, see:

Mars Faker: Se7en Minutes Of Propaganda Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM0bHAXsRio

Mars Faker: Phoenix Rising Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH7vN3oO1Zw

Poor video quality from space is to be expected. Any video from space must be beamed back over very challenging distances, most probably using very low frequency radio waves--because they travel farther--even though these frequencies transmit data much more slowly. How do I know? I am licensed as an amateur radio operator (HAM radio), and have also had an FCC station operator (television broadcast) license. I have considerable experience in satellite dish installation and have even installed cable headends. All of these "broadcasts" operate on radio frequencies, and various parts of the radio spectrum have differing advantages and disadvantages.

Therefore, whereas in the world today we have many broadcasts going short distances (you've probably seen cell towers in your own town/city) in the Gigahertz spectrum and able to easily transmit high-definition video streams faster than real-time, the video from space would simply be unable to compete with such data rates for transmission, despite the incredible advances in technology.

The International Space Station (ISS) is continual present proof of mankind's existence in space. They have a HAM radio station and regular times for communication between the ISS and HAM radio operators. With today's technology, some of that gets streamed to the internet for the general public. Because of the speed of gravitational forces, the ISS continually orbits the earth at a fixed, predictable rate. Because of the limitations on radio waves, individual HAM operators on earth have only certain windows of time in which the signals can be picked up. It is all predictable, and varies by one's geographic location (coordinates).

The very fact that satellite TV, radio, and internet exist is proof enough of our ability to pass beyond the boundary of our atmosphere. Were we unable to escape our atmosphere, we would be unable to place satellites in geosynchronous orbits as required for this. Within that orbital, circumnavigating the globe at the equator, satellites stay in the same position relative to earth even as they are in constant orbit. In any other position outside of that line, they would wander north and south as they orbited. This is all part of the physical laws established by God, and so precise that we can ascertain these things via mathematical formulae.

America is not the only country to have entered space. Many countries have been represented in space, but among those who have sent their own spaceships beyond earth's atmosphere, United States, Russia, China, India, South Korea, and Israel are all included--and there are others. Of these, the U.S., Russia, and China have all managed to land a spacecraft on the moon.

There are many people who speak of conspiracies to deceive the public, and there are real conspiracies out there--such as the 9/11 "terrorist" event, the sinking of the Titanic, and, of course, this plandemic. But space travel is not one of them. The "conspiracy" here, if there is one, is to tell people that it has never happened--like telling people that the earth is flat.

Mrs. White talked about the flat-earth theorists. And she would give the same message to the anti-NASA theorists here today.



And THAT is why this discussion is not worth continuing. We have our orders. We are tasked with giving the Third Angel's message to the world. NASA has no bearing on this. If anything, NASA has helped us by pioneering the technologies that now permit satellite communication by which we can more easily spread the Gospel.

May each participant here consider the value of time, and not waste it in the discussion of unimportant side issues.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

I didn't mention anything about transmission of signals, yet. When I do, hopefully you will be able to answer my questions. Non-sequitur to the OP at this point in time. When I do bring those in, as time allows I will have some very specific questions for you, on power output, battery cell temperature ranges, etc in the vacuum of 'space' in direct sunlight and shadow, along with various radiations (Gamma, trapped, solar, cosmic, etc) among other things. I will also ask about inter-personnel coms as witnessed on NASA video feed, along with timings between from person to person, person to ship/orbiting, person to earth, and person to president (Nixon). Never mind all that for now.

The ISS is supposed to be in 'LEO' (Low Earth Orbit), which is as I said, 'high altitude' (and nowhere close to the moon). According to spaceacademy.net,

"... The International Space Station (ISS) hosts an amateur radio experiment (ARISS) whereby schools and amateur radio operators can communicate with astronauts. The ISS orbits the Earth at an altitude of around 400 km. This is toward the lower end of the range of orbits called Low Earth Orbit (LEO). At this altitude atmospheric drag is significant and the ISS orbit must be periodically boosted to keep it from reentering back to Earth. Thus the orbital altitude may change from about 350 to 450 km. ..." - http://www.spaceacademy.net.au/spacelink/spcomcalc.htm

Here is what I said,

"... Mankind, as well as the devil, does have physical access to "high" (Ephesians 6:12; applying to the natural first) altitude ("power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2;) on this earth, but nothing beyond that. The reach of the devil does not extend to the moon, sun or stars any longer. Yet, he still tries, through mankind, to spread sin to all the unfallen worlds. ..."

LEO is still considered earth's first heaven (and they even speak of "atmospheric drag"), not second.

The OP spoke of the "moon", and already acknowledged that satan and man-kind have access to high altitude. Even the Tower of Babel reached high altitudes (type and anti-type), yet they could never actually reach to the 'stars' and other heavenly bodies (like the moon) could they?

There are also many videos which show fake footage of the ISS, and it being filmed in a water tank, from both the American, Russian and Chinese space programs. You can see the water, bubbles, etc on 'film' which is supposed to have been taken in space. I can reference those later as need be.

So, I am not denying standard science in communications or data relay (in fact, it will be used later to prove that no such mission to the moon or mars was possible then, or even now). I am only showing that there is deception involved in NASA's (etal.) stories.

Actually, a lot of that is run through cable underground and bounced off of atmosphere here on earth by ground dish to ground dish. Never the less, I am not saying that there are not LEO satellites. There's tons of junk in upper earth atmosphere/LEO. It's a regular trash heap up there, so much so that NASA (etal) have to keep track of it all, since it is flying (falling) around at high velocities.

I already spoke about high altitudes being capable. The OP spoke about something very specific. The Moon. I do desire you not to bring in a red-herring with all of these other things which do not address what I have shared. They are non-sequiturs. Placing things into LEO is not placing things, and especially man-kind, onto the lunar or martian surfaces. It is orders of magnitude removed from LEO (high altitude).

Actually, each of those countries are in on the deception at the internal government level. Even the Russians, and Yuri Gagarin was not the first Russian into LEO (and there is even the possibility neither did he go). Others died before him. American, Russian and Chinese (etal) all have fake footage, with water tanks, bubbles, cgi, film fakery and other inexplicable anomalies, on screen on their 'landings', 'excursions'. Bart Sibrel actually got a hold of real NASA footage which shows them faking. It's why they booted him in his documentary Astronaut's Gone Wild. Have you spoken with brother Seventh-day Adventist Bart Sibrel? I have. He is very personable, and will give you all the evidence you need in that matter.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BartSibrel1

If you do not desire to contact him. I can share the same information with you, in video documented evidence. As for the smaller countries, just ask yourself which of the larger countries really runs those at the government level. Follow the money.

So you admit room for these, but not one of the greatest? Interesting.

How did you come to the conclusion on those? Did you look at evidence? If so, I would like to share with you much evidence bout this subject. I can even begin with simple, unanswerable questions.

Will you consider what I have to present and ask first before rejecting outright?

Apples to Oranges. Non-sequitur as stated from the OP. That subject is irrelevant here, and if any desire to discuss it, take it to another thread. What you have done is called "poisoning the well" fallacy, in other words, try to injure the position through association of a like or worse error.

I already have all the material on that subject, and even stated as such in the OP. I do desire you to stay focused on the topic if at all possible Green Cochoa. Moon.

You just went from a statement by sister White, to your open conjecture and extrapolation which is no where present in the SoP/ToJ.

I agree with her, and yet she does not say not to address those concerns raised by others by scripture so that they be be led out of darkness into the light of truth:

Eph_5:11? And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2Ti_4:2? Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

As the same time in refuting the error, I preach to them the Gospel, for I speak of the natural sphere and then draw them to the higher sphere of the godly life in Christ Jesus.

Only by your bizarre logic I am afraid, because the one is not the other.

We sure do. I am doing it. Wait for it ...

It actually does, for that modern Tower of Babel system, is directly attached to evolutionism, uniformitarianism, and a denial of Christ's second coming.

You see the devil has an entire counterfeit second coming involving 'aliens' for all those persons who are atheists, agnostics, non-Christians, etc. The 'alien' phenomena, even now playing out, several persons have told us of, consider:

Roger Morneau [ex-Satanist/occultist] ? A Trip Into The Super Natural, Interview:

Time Index 01:06:48 ? 01:07:54 - "... one of the major deceptions of ?the Last days?. Then the 'priest' [Satanic high-priest], uh, told us [Roger Morneau and friend], uh, we had ? we talked for quite awhile, and uh, then he said, 'Could I have a bit more of your time, I want to tell you something very fascinating?' He says, 'The Grand Plan, the Master's [Satan] Grand Plan, for harvesting the Nations, uh, for harvesting the multitudes of the earth into His cause, just before the close of the Great Controversy, between the forces of Good and Evil.' So he [Satanic high-priest] continued, you know, after we [Roger Morneau and friend], uh, expressed ourselves, that we would be interested to know more about the activities of the ?spirits? [fallen angels], and He [Satanic high-priest] said it's going to be done in a unique manner. This, this Grand Plan, is, is going to take people ? people are going to EAT this stuff ? cause he [Satanic high-priest] says, ?Spirits, demon spirits, will declare themselves to be inhabitants of far-distant planets of the galaxies, that are coming to warn the inhabitants of planet earth, of the impending destruction of the planet, unless something seriously proper is done to avoid it.? ...?

Did you see what Roger Morneau said? Want to see a similar statement from sister White?

?... Fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token of the power of miracle-working demons. The spirits of devils will go forth to the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to fasten them in deception, and urge them on to unite with Satan in his last struggle against the government of Heaven. By these [624] agencies, rulers and subjects will be alike deceived. Persons will arise pretending to be Christ himself, and claiming the title and worship which belong to the world's Redeemer. They will perform wonderful miracles of healing, and will profess to have revelations from Heaven contradicting the testimony of the Scriptures. {GC88 623.3}

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. [Revelation 1:13-15.] The glory that surrounds him is unsurpassed by anything that mortal eyes have yet beheld. The shout of triumph rings out upon the air., ?Christ has come! Christ has come!? The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him, while he lifts up his hands, and pronounces a blessing upon them, as Christ blessed his disciples when he was upon the earth. His voice is soft and subdued, yet full of melody. In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. He declares that those who persist in keeping holy the seventh day are blaspheming his name by refusing to listen to his angels sent to them with light and truth. This is the strong, almost overmastering delusion. Like the Samaritans who were deceived by Simon Magus, the multitudes, from the least to the greatest, give heed to these sorceries, saying, This is ?the great power of God.? [Acts 8:10.] {GC88 624.1}

But the people of God will not be misled. The teachings of this false christ are not in accordance with the Scriptures His blessing is pronounced upon the worshipers of the beast [625] and his image,?the very class upon whom the Bible declares that God's unmingled wrath shall be poured out. {GC88 624.2} ...?

Did you read about "fearful sights of a supernatural character will soon be revealed in the heavens, in token power of miracle-working demons?" I did. Roger Morneau understood.

Consider this text a moment:

Gal_4:26? But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Here is what Satan will do, for all he does it twist scripture and the sanctuary in particular.

Jerusalem above is the city New Jerusalem, which is covered in light and precious metals. It comes down from Heaven. It, being a city, is filled with beings, like a ship. A "mother" ship. If you need to see the connection of city and people to ships in scripture I am sure you can find those texts on your own.

Here is what Rome has said:

?Very soon the nations will look to Aliens for their salvation.? - Guy Consolmagno (SJ, Jesuit) ? Leading Astronomer

?Jesus might be the son of a star child.? - Guy Consolmagno (SJ, Jesuit) ? Leading Astronomer

?There is an Alien presence on Earth now.? - Monsignor Corrado Balducci (Vatican Spokesman)

?... that allow us to say with assurance ? that the existence of these beings is real.?- Monsignor Corrado Balducci (Vatican Spokesman)

?Very soon we will not have to deny our Christian faith ? but there is information coming from another world, and once it is confirmed it is going to require a re-reading of the Gospel as we know it.? - Fr. Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti (Professor, Vatican University, Opus Dei theologian of the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome)

Fatima, Portugal ? 1917

Pope Pius XII [1950] saw a 'sphere' over the Vatican Gardens [hence the Marian Dogma of the Assumption]

They are actually in contact with evil angels right now.

Speaking of the devil, and of what Rome knows, by experience [read carefully, and compare with your Bible]:

"Angels 'like sunlight that refracts on you through a crystal vase,' Angelogist says.

By Catholic Online (NEWS CONSORTIUM)
12/25/2013
Catholic Online

Contrary to popular belief, angels don't have wings

Angels have become more popular and mainstream with New Age thought permeating the secular world. "Angelogist" Father Renzo Lavator in Rome says that to the contrary, real angels don't have wings. Rather, "They are a bit like sunlight that refracts on you through a crystal vase."

LOS ANGELES, CA (Catholic Online) - Lavator also says that angels don't "look like cherubs." They are in fact more like shards of light.

"You do not see angels so much as feel their presence," he said at a recent conference. "They are a bit like sunlight that refracts on you through a crystal vase."

Speaking in Rome, he added: "I think there is a rediscovery of angels in Christianity."

The root of the word "angel" comes from "angelos" first spoken in the Mycenaean civilization in Greece more than 3,000 years ago. The word means "messenger" in ancient Greek.

Angelic visions appear in many religions and mythologies. They are usually depicted as having feathered wings on their backs and halos above their heads.

Angels are generally considered messengers of God in Christianity.

Lavator took part in a debate this week on angelic art by the Fondazione Archivio Storico, an Italian art foundation, and was held in the Vatican-owned Palazzo della Cancelleria.

"Following the cultural history of angels is following the history of humanity, or at least of our civilization," the organizers said.

"Angels have helped drive religious and philosophical thought and have given birth to sublime forms of poetic and artistic expression."

Lavator is dismissive of all the angel art presented around Christmas time. "There is space for that, but you have to understand that these are not real representations.

The widely-published Catholic clergyman is also a "demonologist." He adds that angels are more needed than ever because increasing secularization and materialism in society have left an "open door" for the devil. "There is a lot more interference from diabolical forces. That is why you see queues of people outside the exorcists' offices in churches.

"Pope Francis talks more about the devil than about angels and I think rightly so. But it's still early, he will get round to the angels too."" - Catholic Online

The Vatican Astrobiology Conference 2009

Ronald Reagan said, "How quickly would our differences would be dissolved if we were faced with a threat from an alien world ..."

?The highest levels of Vatican governance know what is approaching the Earth and it will be of the utmost importance in the coming years.? - Fr. Malachi Martin (SJ, Jesuit)

?Because the mentality amongst those who are at the highest levels of Vatican administration and geopolitics, know ? what's going on in space, and what's approaching us, could be of great import in the next five years, ten years.? - Fr. Malachi Martin (SJ, Jesuit), given in an interview (1997) with Art Bell on Coast to Coast AM.

Therefore, remember:

2Th 2:1? Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,?
2Th 2:2? That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.?
2Th 2:3? Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;?
2Th 2:4? Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.?
2Th 2:5? Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things??
2Th 2:6? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.?
2Th 2:7? For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.?
2Th 2:8? And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:?
2Th 2:9? Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,?
2Th 2:10? And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.?
2Th 2:11? And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:?
2Th 2:12? That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.?

There is a massive lie in NASA. It deals with the second coming, and it present false science in stages to prepare the way for the false miracles and false second coming.

We must "meet it" head on. Refute the error, show the deception and preach the truth that people may be saved and not deceived by the devil, who has deceived the whole world.

Communications is not the issue.

"On Jan. 31, 1958, the U.S. Army Ballistic Missile Agency successfully launched the first American satellite, Explorer 1." - https://www.nasa.gov/missions/science/f-satellites.html

NASA wasn't even formed yet.

"Launching NASA "An Act to provide for research into the problems of flight within and outside the Earth's atmosphere, and for other purposes." With this simple preamble, the Congress and the President of the United States created the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) on October 1, 1958." - https://history.nasa.gov/factsheet.htm

Again, most satellites claimed to have been put up, are simply LEO. The others, well there is a bit of chicanery going on.

If you would consider the names and evidences I provided, you will see that for yourself. Do you think NASA will just come out and say it? Well, in some instances they do.

Wouldn't it be better to consider my evidences and then judge, before making proclamation?

Pro_18:13? He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

Pro 18:17? He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.?

Act 17:11? These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.?

Thank you for the blessings, for God indeed has blessed in abundance of truth, history and true science, rather than in deception, counterfeit history, and science falsely so called.

If you notice, I did share the Gospel even in the OP, drawing from the natural to spiritual.

[Here is the link from Nasa's JPL labs, its called Cassini's grand finale:
NASA at Saturn: Cassini's Grand Finale

God Bless,
Will

Yep, that is some high quality CGI propaganda and cockamamie story for sure.

"... To help visualize the dramatic final chapter in Cassini's remarkable story, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory produced this short film that features beautiful computer-generated animation, thoughtful narration and a rousing score. Producers at JPL worked with filmmaker Erik Wernquist, known for his 2014 short film "Wanderers," to create a stirring finale video befitting one of NASA's most successful missions of exploration.

Wernquist's signature animation style uses real images from space missions as a starting point, which gives the resulting animations an uncanny authenticity. In addition, the vistas he creates have an uncommonly powerful sense of scale that conveys the vastness of the planetary locales NASA spacecraft have visited. ..." - https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/13016/making-cassinis-grand-finale/


I had a good laugh, thank you.

JPL, that stands for Just Propagandistic Lies, right?

Look at Cassini's supposed photo shots, all CGI, and notice in the background, no star field (whatsoever, they cleaned that out). - https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/13120/cassinis-final-images/

In some of the 'movies', they look like they are taken or 'captured' from an astronomy program, or a government level planetarium type software for tracking heavenly bodies.

In the "RAW Images", which are tiny black/white or grayscale thumbs, you can see what appear to be star fields, but in 'pictures' that are taken together, the star fields move

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/images/casJPGThumbS101/N00288889.jpg

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/images/casJPGThumbS101/N00288890.jpg

In this 'shot' we got 'starfield' in front of a planetary body - https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/raw-im...th_date+desc&per_page=50&page=20

There is even fakery regarding 'the last known "image"', and the internet knew it - https://www.rt.com/news/437474-cassini-final-image-fake/

Thank you for clarifying that. However, then it would not be far from imagination to consider all you do is substitute in moon landing for flat-earth for your arguments. Flat earther's would be proud.