Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
Trainor, ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina
1324 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 29
kland 9
asygo 1
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Member Spotlight
Posts: 6,504
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
5 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, Kevin H, 2 invisible), 2,704 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man #194833
06/02/22 12:38 PM
06/02/22 12:38 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,504
Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The Jewish nation had put their trust in Abraham, in being the descendants of Abraham, rather than putting their faith in God. "We be Abraham's seed," they said proudly. (John 8:33) thinking this was their ticket to salvation and acceptance by God, while they rejected Jesus.

"If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill Me, a man that has told you the truth, which I have heard of God. This did not Abraham." John 8:39, 40.
One named Lazarus (Mary and Martha's brother) was raised from the dead, a living proof that Christ had the power of life over death. But they would not believe, proving the statement "though one were raised from the dead " it would do no good.

Also, in Galatians 3:29 "And if ye are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. " The rich man claimed to be Abraham's son, but he was separated from the promises made to Abraham by a great gulf. A gulf that only Christ can span, and has spanned for all that will believe and make Him their Lord and Savior.

The parable can have application to the final event after the millennium when those in Christ stand with Christ (in the great throng of redeemed in the New Jerusalem) while the raised but lost stand outside fully realizing they have lost everything because they rejected Christ and the salvation HE offered. There is a fire that will consume them

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #194840
06/05/22 12:03 AM
06/05/22 12:03 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,504
The important question concerning this parable, in my understanding, is --
Why was the poor man saved, and seen with the saved, while the rich man found himself with the lost separated by a gulf from the saved, in the final destructive fire?

We really do not know much about the poor man's spiritual condition. The focus of the story is more on the rich man and we can glean more information from him.

Earlier in the same chapter we read; " Verse 14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him (mocked Jesus).? Notice verse 15: ?And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.?

Jesus was talking to a group of people who were self sufficient. They thought they didn't need justification, they could justify themselves. We are Abraham's seed! They boasted, we don't need anything.

Could this story be connected with the message for these last days?

Revelation 3:17 Because you sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and do not know that you art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that you may be rich; and white raiment, that you may be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness does not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that you mayest see

In God's sight those who think their riches and outward piety are enough, were actually like that blind begger, poor, wretched, miserable and naked. But they didn't recognize it!

The begger recognized his condition, he could not promote himself, his only hope was in God.
While we aren't told of his spiritual condition, his final reward indicates he trusted in God, knowing he could never, of himself qualify. But "the LORD, has heard the desire of the humble: and will prepare their heart". Psalms 10:17

Abraham is portrayed as the great ?man of faith? in the Bible. He is called ?the father of all them that believe? (Romans 4:11). The saved will someday sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom (those who are only descendants of the flesh, but not people of faith) shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matt 8:11-12)

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #194868
06/18/22 08:50 AM
06/18/22 08:50 AM
TheophilusOne  Offline
Active Member 2024

Regular Member
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 55
I hear so many people using this to show that there is a heaven or hell after we die here that we go to immediately, because of the word "certain". Anyone got any help on explaining "certain" to others?

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #194872
06/20/22 08:04 PM
06/20/22 08:04 PM
kland  Offline
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,445
You mean as in, "certain beggar"? That seems odd people would use that to mean something of importance. Could you give any more details as to why that means something to them?

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #194875
06/25/22 12:20 AM
06/25/22 12:20 AM
TheophilusOne  Offline
Active Member 2024

Regular Member
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 55
Many have said when Jesus uses the word certain, it is referring to an actual person. I can't believe folk would take that parable literally.

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #194878
06/28/22 01:09 PM
06/28/22 01:09 PM
kland  Offline
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,445
They should look at the Greek:
an enclitic indefinite pronoun; some or any person or object:--a (kind of), any (man, thing, thing at all), certain (thing), divers, he (every) man, one (X thing), ought, + partly, some (man, -body, - thing, -what), (+ that no-)thing, what(-soever), X wherewith, whom(-soever), whose(-soever).

You do a search and see things like whomsoever and every man and I'm not sure how He would give a parable without saying a certain man. One of the main subjects of the parable. Which would be an "actual" person of the parable. Not an actual person who actually went to heaven nor hell. But it justifies their beliefs, or hollywood jesuit theater's, so you can't help them.

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: TheophilusOne] #194887
07/09/22 07:28 PM
07/09/22 07:28 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,504
Originally Posted by TheophilusOne
Many have said when Jesus uses the word certain, it is referring to an actual person. I can't believe folk would take that parable literally.

A certain rich man -- a man from a certain class of people -- a member of the Jewish upper class.

A certain beggar -- a man from a different class of people -- a member of the lower class.

The two groups of people will see a great reversal of circumstance

Upper class Jewish religious leaders thought that they enjoyed God?s favor. They felt they were rich in spiritual favors and felt they needed nothing more.

Sort of parallels other pronouncements of Jesus.

The supposed rich of Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Those who remain in that condition will be "spue thee "

Where as the "beggers:
Matt. 5:3 Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
5:6 Blessed [are] they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
5:7 Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #194915
07/27/22 01:08 AM
07/27/22 01:08 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,504
From Christ's Object Lessons

"In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, Christ shows that in this life men decide their eternal destiny. During probationary time the grace of God is offered to every soul. But if men waste their opportunities in self-pleasing, they cut themselves off from everlasting life. No after probation will be granted them. By their own choice they have fixed an impassable gulf between them and their God. {COL 260.1}

" Lazarus represents the suffering poor who believe in Christ. When the trumpet sounds and all that are in the graves hear Christ's voice and come forth, they will receive their reward; for their faith in God was not a mere theory, but a reality.

"God had made the rich man a steward of His means, and it was his duty to attend to just such cases as that of the beggar.... But he forgot that he was accountable for the use of his entrusted means and capabilities. The Lord's blessings rested upon him abundantly, but he employed them selfishly, to honor himself, not his Maker. ....

"Christ represented the hopelessness of looking for a second probation. This life is the only time given to man in which to prepare for eternity. {COL 263.3}
"The rich man had not abandoned the idea that he was a child of Abraham, and in his distress he is represented as
calling upon him for aid. "Father Abraham," he prayed, "have mercy on me." He did not pray to God, but to Abraham. Thus he showed that he placed Abraham above God, and that he relied on his relationship to Abraham for salvation. {COL 264

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #197659
05/25/24 09:09 AM
05/25/24 09:09 AM
Rick H  Offline

Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,172
Florida, USA
But why did Christ have to include what has caused people to get a wrong view of what happens when you die even if it is just a parallel.. I can't see how it helps..

Re: Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man [Re: dedication] #197664
05/27/24 10:56 PM
05/27/24 10:56 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,504
Here's a thought.

What happens if we fast forward this story over about 3000+ years from the time of Christ.
Both Lazarus and the rich man died during the time of Christ first Advent. For both the rich man and Lazarus time STOPPED for them, back there in the first century AD. There's absolutely no awareness of time passing for either of them.

At about the 2000+ (not time setting here, just a rounded number) point when Christ comes the second time, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Lazarus with millions of other redeemed saints, are all raised from the dead and join Christ in the air to go with Him to heaven and enter the New Jerusalem. Lazarus is carried by the angels to meet Abraham and is absolutely astonished that he, who (from what he can remember) was considered a worthless beggar, is suddenly part of children of Abraham who inherit the eternal blessings!

During this joyous time (lasting 1000 years), the rich man is buried and dead back on earth, still totally unconscious of time.

Now we come to the 3000+ year point, it's Christ's third coming, when all the rest of the dead, including the rich man wake up from their timeless sleep.
He sees Lazarus living in luxury by Abraham?s side in the Holy City. Separated by a great gulf the rich man finds himself living in torment. Gone are all his earthly possessions; he has nothing, although ironically he?s still referred to as the rich man.
The glory of Christ is overwhelming, he is in angry agony realizing what he has lost.

But he hasn't changed -- we just need to read to the end of the verse to see he hasn?t changed a bit. He asks for Lazarus to be sent out of the city into the crowd of the lost, so that he can dip the end of his finger in water and cool his tongue.
Notice, everyone has fingers, tongues and eyes, they are not bodiless spirits.
The rich man wants Lazarus to once again be in a place of servitude to him. What right does Lazarus have to be in the city, while he, the important rich man was outside in torment.
He wants to be served and in control. (As he was before his death)

It's his choice that placed him outside the walls of the New Jerusalem where he is about to be consumed by the cleansing fire.
Abraham calls him "son", there is no happiness in the death of the wicked.

The parable strikes home the thought of the eternal reward and the anguish of those lost.
It is told to be a warning. Now, in our time, there is still time to take heed, but after death it is too late, Jesus is expressing a desire for a different outcome for people locked in their self centered, selfish lives, He desires a changed life.

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
What is Catholic Integralism?
by dedication. 07/23/24 12:46 AM
Third Quarter 2024 The Book of Mark
by dedication. 07/21/24 04:52 PM
The Gospel According To John
by dedication. 07/20/24 09:42 PM
Spiritual Evolution
by Rick H. 07/20/24 12:20 PM
"Justice" or torture?
by Rick H. 07/20/24 12:17 PM
The fragility of our cultural lifestyle
by dedication. 07/19/24 10:59 PM
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 07/18/24 11:17 AM
2nd Quarter 2024 The Great Controversy
by dedication. 07/17/24 01:42 PM
Looking to Escape the Heat
by kland. 07/15/24 06:44 PM
What is the Biblical Reckoning of a Day?
by Rick H. 07/13/24 01:18 PM
Global Warming Farce
by dedication. 07/07/24 05:32 PM
Looks like the debate was a disaster for Biden.
by dedication. 07/07/24 03:05 PM
A Review of U.S. Sunday Laws
by dedication. 07/07/24 12:38 AM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The most bitter of enemies.
by Kevin H. 07/21/24 11:51 PM
Will Trump Pass The Sunday Law?
by Kevin H. 07/21/24 10:24 PM
Ecumenical Baptism
by Rick H. 07/20/24 06:20 PM
Has SDA prophetic understanding losts its way?
by Rick H. 07/20/24 06:12 PM
Satan's Last Day Deception...
by Rick H. 07/20/24 06:00 PM
Press Together! Press Together!
by Rick H. 07/20/24 01:30 PM
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 07/20/24 12:25 PM
LGBTQ+ Rainbow Decorates SDA Website
by kland. 07/19/24 06:45 PM
False Tongues In The Church!
by TheophilusOne. 07/13/24 12:24 AM
Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)
by dedication. 07/05/24 03:47 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 07/05/24 08:24 AM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1