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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195093
10/20/22 09:20 AM
10/20/22 09:20 AM
Daryl  Offline

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Ellen White states in her writings that the spirit that returns to God after death is the character.

Here is how she wrote it: "The spirit, the character of man, is returned to God, there to be preserved." {Mar 301.2}


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195094
10/20/22 03:42 PM
10/20/22 03:42 PM
dedication  Online Content
OP
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Trying to identify soul and spirit has been argued for many years.
They probably overlap making it difficult to define and separate the two.

In our last lesson discussion at church the idea was presented that the
"spirit" was the life force from God, which God breathed into Adam and Adam became a living soul, a living being.
Without that life force we are only a dead body at best.

The soul was referred to as the character (the personhood or identifying personality) of the person. Adam was created in the image of God, in that his soul or character resembling the character of God, which was then marred greatly by sin.

The aim of Christ in our redemption includes the restoration of our "souls" back to reflect the character of God and fit us for heaven.
Quote
His image is imprinted upon the eye of the soul, and affects every portion of our daily life, softening and subduing our whole nature. By beholding, we are conformed to the divine similitude, even the likeness of Christ. To all with whom we associate we reflect the bright and cheerful beams of His righteousness. We have become transformed in character; for heart, soul, mind, are irradiated by the reflection of Him who loved us, and gave Himself for us.... {FLB 150.2}
The soul that is transformed by the grace of Christ will admire His divine character. . . . The less we see to esteem in ourselves, the more we shall see to esteem in the infinite purity and loveliness of our Saviour. A view of our sinfulness drives us to Him who can pardon; and when the soul, realizing its helplessness, reaches out after Christ, He will reveal Himself in power. The more our sense of need drives us to Him and to the Word of God, the more exalted views we shall have of His character, and the more fully we shall reflect His image. {AG 229.7}


Yet it's also true that scripture speaks of having a spirit of gentleness, etc. which also show character, especially the emotional aspects of character.

The point of agreement is that a living person needs to have all three (body, soul and spirit) Taking away any one of the three from the other two, results in a dead person.

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195105
10/21/22 03:19 PM
10/21/22 03:19 PM
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OP
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The resurrection is clearly outlined in the New Testament, yet in the Old Testament it is a bit more vague. It's there, but not as clear.
In Christ's day we find people who believed in the resurrection (Martha, as well as the Pharisees) and others who didn't (the Sadducees)

Would be interesting to compile more evidence from the Old Testament for the belief in the resurrection.
The lesson gives: Daniel 12:2; Job 25:19-27; Psalms 49:7-9,15; Psalms 71:20; Isaiah 26:19

There is also Job 33:29-30; Psalms 17:15; Psalms 103:4

Of course we have the assurance of the resurrection clearly given in the New Testament.

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195129
10/29/22 04:31 AM
10/29/22 04:31 AM
dedication  Online Content
OP
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October 23, Death and Resurrection of Moses

Due to his sin in angerly striking the rock when God asked him to speak to the rock, Moses was not allowed to enter the earthly Canaan (Deut. 34:1-4) He died. But then we find in Jude 9 that Moses was given special honor by being resurrected and taken to heaven before Christ's first appearing. Moses and Elijah (who never died) were seen on the Mount of transfiguration with Christ. Then one might ask why God laid Moses to rest? Why did he die in the first place? .

Possible answers:

1. God does not excuse sin:
Moses; one rash act in the face of an ungrateful, angry people, may seem like a small thing that could easily be excused. But it was done before all the people. the impatience, and taking credit "must we bring water from the rock" gave the wrong message to the people.
"?The Lord was wroth with me for your sakes,? said Moses. The transgression was known to the whole congregation. Had it been passed by lightly, the impression would have been given that impatience under great provocation might be excused in those in responsible positions. But when, because of that one sin Moses and Aaron were not to enter Canaan, the people knew that God is no respecter of persons.
Men of all future time must see the God of heaven as impartial, in no case justifying sin. God's goodness and love engage Him to deal with sin as an evil fatal to the peace and happiness of the universe."
EP 293

Moses was not excused, he died. Moses WAS forgiven and given eternal life!


2. Though Israel provoked Moses almost beyond human endurance, there was always a strong tendency for Israel to almost worshiped him as god after his separation from them by death.
Yet, Moses was denied entrance into earthly Canaan, and died, due to his sin. This showed he was subject to God, dependent upon God, and for that one time when he took credit to himself for bringing water from the rock, it was strongly shown that was sin. Had Moses then been translated before their eyes this adoration would have been even greater.

3. Moses, himself was being tested, when the time of his death came, he departed, by himself, on this new and mysterious errand. He must go forth alone, away from everyone, to resign his life into the hands of his Creator.

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195130
10/29/22 04:44 AM
10/29/22 04:44 AM
dedication  Online Content
OP
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Oct 27 Lazarus

"Read John 11:25, 26. In one line Jesus talks about believers dying, and in the next He talks about believers never dying. What is Jesus teaching us here, and why is the understanding that death is an unconscious sleep so crucial in understanding Christ?s words? And why do His words offer us, as beings destined to the grave, so much hope?"

Paraphrasing this:

The one who believes in me, in Jesus, even if he dies, (entering into the sleep of death) will live (for Jesus is the resurrection and life and will wake them up again) , and everyone who lives and believes in me, in Jesus, will never die (they will never PERISH they will NOT be extinguished forever in the second death, they just sleep unconscious for a while and will be awakened in the resurrection and live forever. Do you believe this??

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believeth should not PERISH, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195133
10/29/22 12:50 PM
10/29/22 12:50 PM
Kevin H  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 550
New York
Except for direct quotes from Numbers edited into Deuteronomy, these two books give two different reasons for Moses' death, and we need to know both.

Of course all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Moses sinned and was not allowed into the land. Of course things would be busy for Joshua, so the old man probably needed to rest. So we have recorded in Numbers (and a direct quote from Numbers edited into Deuteronomy) that reminds us that Moses was a human who had sinned and came short of the glory of God.

In Deuteronomy, Moses was the ONLY one fit to enter the land; but died for the sake of his people so that they could enter the land in his place. Thus he was a type and giving the message of how Jesus was going to die for us and to give to the Hebrews a message of the substitutionary sacrifice to come.

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195134
10/29/22 09:45 PM
10/29/22 09:45 PM
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OP
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Interesting thought Kevin,

BUT I'm curious --
Where does it say only Moses was FIT to enter the earthly Canaan?
Assumed probably because Moses was considered ready to be raised and ushered into the Heavenly Canaan!!!
But where does it say Moses had to die so Israel could enter the land in his place?

I'm assuming you might mean these verses:

But the LORD was wroth with me for your sakes, and would not hear me: and the LORD said unto me, Let it suffice thee; speak no more unto me of this matter. Duet. 3:26
or
Deuteronomy 4:21
Furthermore the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance:
Numbers 29:12 Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, ?Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.?



Hiowever, I find it hard to believe that Moses died as an atonement in the place of the people. No mere mortal man can atone for many. Only the One Who created the many, can die in their place.
Exodus 32:32-33 makes that clear where Moses offers to be blotted out of the book of life so Israel could be forgiven, but God says "Whoever has sinned against Me, him will I blot out.
Only Christ's sacrifice can forgive sin.

The way I understand those verses is this --

The first time the children of Israel approached Canaan they doubted God, and none of those alive then, over the age of 20 save Joshua and Calab, were later allowed to enter Canaan. The rest all died in the wilderness.
Hebrews3:18 And to whom did He (God) swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Moses now compares that experience which happened 38 years earlier, with his own.
Moses in Numbers 20:12.states, "Ye did not believe the Lord your God" as the reason for the rejection of the people to enter earthly Canaan, in Deuteronomy 1:32. you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.?Yet in spite of this you did not believe in the Lord your God' As the spies doubted Divine guidance in the success of the conquest, , so Moses presumed to alter the prescribed order for the miracle in Kadesh. Like transgressions incurred like penalties. The fault for which the people had suffered death in the wilderness, could not be overlooked in the leader. For their sake, Moses, whom they had actually provoked to his reaction, would suffer the same fate as their forefathers suffered.

Moses transgression was known to the whole congregation. Had it been passed by lightly, the impression would have been given that disobedience and mistrust, under great provocation might be excused in those in responsible positions.but not in the common people. But when, because of that one sin Moses and Aaron were not to enter Canaan, the people knew that God is no respecter of persons.

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195136
10/30/22 08:46 AM
10/30/22 08:46 AM
Daryl  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,010
Nova Scotia, Canada
I feel the same way about this part: "Moses transgression was known to the whole congregation. Had it been passed by lightly, the impression would have been given that disobedience and mistrust, under great provocation might be excused in those in responsible positions.but not in the common people. But when, because of that one sin Moses and Aaron were not to enter Canaan, the people knew that God is no respecter of persons."


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195139
11/01/22 02:01 PM
11/01/22 02:01 PM
Kevin H  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 550
New York
The quotes "The Lord was angry at me for your sake..." are both on this trail. It was pointed out into class that we do not read these quotes as they stand, and we read what happened in Numbers into the text, indeed a later scribe copied part of Numbers to do what we tend to do automatically. But the professors pointed out that when you read some of the verses such as "The Lord was angry at me for your sake" and others from Deuteronomy ALONE, it gives the different context where it makes Moses a type of Christ dyeing as a substitute so that the people can go in. The Moses takes the Lord's anger upon himself instead of letting it fall on the people.

God is trying to maintain a balanced message: the fact that Moses did die for his sin, but also to start to teach people about the substitutionary sacrifice that is to come. If we stay on one or the other alone, we miss the balanced message.

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Re: 4th Quarter 2022 Future Hope [Re: dedication] #195142
11/02/22 04:53 PM
11/02/22 04:53 PM
dedication  Online Content
OP
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Posts: 5,821
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Read John chapter 19 When we contemplate what these verses are describing, it is almost too awesome to believe. The Creator of all things, Whose very words spoke worlds and all that is in them, into existence, Who was fully God, as the Father is fully God, Who had the homage of all the angels,
He stands before a howling mob demanding His death by the most cruel method.
Why would He subject Himself to such abuse at the very hands He created and gave life too?

The value and price of free choice.

We could have been created with pre-programed morals and spirituality. It would have been the easy way, having beautiful human beings all living in harmony and worshipping God, with no ability to chose to do so or refuse. But God desires a relationship built on love, free choice, and our desire to be in relationship with Him. Preprogramed robotic worship is just not real worship. But with free choice came that ability to chose to rebel against God's ways.

God's law, if placed in the heart and followed brings harmony and peace, but transgression of that law demands death. God can't just set it aside if that is more convenient, if He did it would no longer be the law of His government, but simply a list of good suggestions. The law demands the death of the transgressor. It was because of His love and desire to have our fellowship and be in relationship with us that Christ took our sins upon Himself (the Creator taking the just consequences of the sinful created) Opening the door for each one of us to have life, everlasting life, in Christ.


And can it be that I should gain
An int'rest in the Savior's blood?
Died He for me, who caused His pain?
For me, who Him to death pursued?
Amazing love! how can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Refrain
Amazing love! How can it be
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me!
2
He left His Father's throne above,
So free, so infinite His grace.
Emptied Himself of all but love,
And bled for Adam's helpless race;
'Tis mercy all, immense and free;
For, O my God, it found out me.
3
Long my imprisoned spirit lay
Fast bound in sin and nature's night;
Thine eye diffused a quick'ning ray,
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free;
I rose, went forth and followed Thee.
4
No condemnation now I dread;
Jesus, and all in Him, is mine!
Alive in Him, my living Head,
And clothed in righteousness divine,
Bold I approach th'eternal throne,
And claim the crown, through Christ my own.

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