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Zechariah's eight visions #195478
02/19/23 04:15 AM
02/19/23 04:15 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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The message of Zechariah?s first six chapters in historical context:

A group of Judeans have returned from exile.
Jerusalem and the surrounding area was in ruins.
The returned exiles are building homes for themselves, trying to carve out life for themselves amidst the ruins.
They had started to rebuild the temple, but opposition was intimidating, and they had decided the time was not right to rebuild the temple.

But the Lord had other plans
it is time to rebuild the temple.
This appeal was the main communication behind a series of eight short visions that God gave to Zechariah in order to help him to understand from a broader perspective the contemporary situation of God?s people.

Each of the visions enlarge the readers understanding and reasoning, building and deepened the understanding of the message.
They were written in a chiastic order (in a mirror structure), which means that the first vision corresponds with the last one, the eighth; the second with the seventh; the third with the sixth; and, finally, at the climax is the fourth, accompanied by the fifth. These pairs also deal with related subjects, which are chronologically arranged in a reverse order.

A. 8th vision The horses go out, chariots signifying war.
A. 1st vision the horses have returned there is peace in the land

B. 7th vision Women in a basket being carried to Babylon and God's people called to come out.
B, 2nd vision 4 horns that scattered, but the damage is being fixed by four carpenters

C. 6th vision Flying scroll with severe verdict of judgment coming against commandments broken
C 3rd vision of a Man with a measuring rod measuring the rebuilding of Jerusalem

D 5th vision Holy Spirit gives power to Zerubbabel to rebuild
D 4th vision cleansing and forgiveness, priesthood cleansed

Study the visions in reversed sequence. (exiled Israel being restored) Begin with the last vision and go to the first (from war and exile to peace and restoration).

Compare the chiastic patterns. The seventh one pointing out apostacy and then examine the second one (pointing out restoration)

The last three visions deal with the reasons why the exile took place in the first place.
Yet it also warns, should Israel again walk independent of the Holy Spirit, and fall into apostacy again, history would repeat.

It's not by might nor by power but by God's Spirit.

At the heart of these visions are visions four and five. God enables Zerubbabel to build the temple and cleanses the high priest Joshua to serve in this sanctuary. We must experience His forgiveness and cleansing, and be empowering through the Holy Spirit. Then we can be sanctified and gradually be transformed into His image, and find the peace He alone offers.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195486
02/19/23 11:19 PM
02/19/23 11:19 PM
Kevin H  Offline
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This is being copied and printed and put in the front of Zachariah in my most used Bibles. Excellent!!!

Lately, I have been increasingly affected by the book of Zachariah. What first opened my eyes to the richness of this book, in a special way, was when I read Dr. Sigve Tonstad's commentary pm Revelation, and it was pointed out that Revelation 1:7 is a direct quote and a telling us to study Zechariah 12: 10-13:2a. This has been an overwhelming passage.

I had read into Revelation 1:7 the tears of the lost. Those who will be raised to see the second coming where they cry "He is the son of God, He is the Messiah" from Jesus' worst enemies, as well as the tears of the rest of the lost.

But John was telling us to read this passage in Zachariah, which tells us, and you can see it in the words Joh uses before and after this quote, these are the tears of being overwhelmed by the amazingness of grace, that me, despite my past, has been forgiven and changed and that me, even me, He makes his kingdom and priests. When we realize this we are going to be so overwhelmed that we will cry like we never cried before. All the tears of sorrow and pain, loosing those dear to us like how Israel lost King Joachim, and even the pain of loosing a child, all our tears of pain will have to surrender to the tears of overwhelming joy when we see Jesus. Zachariah tells us and John places this at the second coming that we are going to cry like we never cried before, but these overwhelming tears are not tears of hurt, but the tears of how Jesus can heal me, even me.

Yes, there are the tears of the lost. But they are not what's being described in Revelation 1:7.

Do you have this? The anchor Bible on Haggai and the first half of Zachariah has been written by two of my spiritual heroes, Eric and Carol Meyers. I have been looking in this commentary here and there, but not yet a reading through. Oh, I'm going to also place a copy of your above post in this commentary!

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195491
02/20/23 02:31 PM
02/20/23 02:31 PM
dedication  Offline OP
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Thanks Kevin,
Yes, too often we see only judgment in the prophecies, but they contain so many revelations of God's grace! We need to see them in the light of God's amazing grace!

THE HORSES:

Both the eighth and the first vision contain horses in four basic colors. (Red, black, speckled, white) Revelation 6 also has four horses in four colors (white, red, black and pale). The best way to understand those visions is to find out what these horses symbolize.

SYMBOLIC MEANING OF THE HORSES
(Read Zechariah 6:5, Revelation 4:5-6, and Revelation 1:20, Zechariah 4:2-6, Isaiah 63:11-13 and Zechariah 10:3)

Zechariah 6:5 on seeing four different colored horses pulling chariots, asked,
?What are these my Lord? The angel responded,
?These are the four spirits of the heavens that go forward from standing before the Lord of all the earth?.
These horses are identified with spirits that stand before the Lord! They are guided by spirits that stand before Him, Who is Lord of all the earth. They receive command to go throughout the whole world.

The problem is that many Bible commentators confuse the spirits with the winds, and then come to the conclusion the horses are only judgments (winds of strife). Yet the spirit and the winds are two completely different things in both Revelation and Zechariah.

Revelation 4:5-6 pictures, seven lamps which are the seven spirits of God. Christ sends the Spirit to the churches when He ascended to heaven (see John 16:7-13.)

In Revelation 1:20 it plainly identifies the seven lamp stands that stand before the throne (which were identified as the seven spirits in 4:6) as the seven churches.

In Zechariah 4:2-6 we again see the seven lamps which represent, not might, not power, (they are not winds of strife) they represent the Holy Spirit. And again it is in reference to building up the people of God and their worship of the true God.

The conclusion shows that the horses represent God's people who are to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
This answers the question as to what the horses represent which arises in both Revelation 6 and in Zechariah.
Isaiah 63:13 and Zechariah 10:3 confirm the conclusion arrived at above. The horse is symbolic of the church of God! Jesus has made them as His goodly horse. Their guidance coming from the Spirit of Jehovah.

Zech 10:3 for the LORD of hosts hath visited his flock the house of Judah, and hath made them as his goodly horse in the battle.
Isaiah 63:13 who led them through the depths (the Red Sea)? Like a horse in the open desert, they did not stumble;
Habak. 3:15 You walked through the sea with Your horses, Through the heap of great waters.

Horses are symbolic of God's people, the church, led by the Holy Spirit.

These horses change color from white to red to black to pale or speckled. From purity to pollution from sin, in direct consequences with their relationship, or lack of a relationship with the Holy Spirit.

Who are the riders? Probably the "shepherds". The leaders of the flock, priests, kings, etc. Zechariah 10:3 includes, "My anger is kindled against the shepherds, And I will punish the male goats; For the Lord of hosts has visited His flock, the house of Judah, And has made them like His goodly horse in battle".

These horses are commission to go throughout the whole world! Jesus Christ in Matt 28:19, commissioned His church to preach the good news to the whole world. to every nation, sharing the message of salvation that is offered for everyone who comes to Jesus. And yes, first they must have the power of the Holy Spirit, for it is not with their own might or power, but by the Holy Spirit.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195496
02/21/23 07:03 PM
02/21/23 07:03 PM
dedication  Offline OP
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The eighth vision, Zechariah 6

1 And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.

2 In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;

3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.

4 Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?

5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.

7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.

8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.


There are many different interpretations out there, all having some connection with a scripture somewhere in the Bible. It just shows this prophecy is not easy to understand.

We do know however that four chariots were coming forth from between the two bronze mountains; and each chariot is drawn by a team of a specified color of horses.
? One has red horses, which is never mentioned again in the vision.
? One has black horses which later goes north.
? One has white horses which also goes north.
? One has strong speckled horses which goes to the south and the whole world.

CHARIOTS.

Four chariots were seen in this vision. Vehicles are made to hold and carry something. Chariots especially tend to carry soldiers swiftly, and usually carry them into battle.

Zechariah asks what these horses and chariots mean. ?The angel replied to me, ?These are the four spirits of heaven, going forth after standing before the Lord of all the earth,?

Zechariah is told what he needs to know here and that is that these are ?the four spirits? that stand before the Lord!

In our last study, it was shown that the horses represent God's people who are directed by the Holy Spirit.

A possible series of connections for the chariots are Ezekiel 1 and 10, The four chariot like living creatures with their wheels, carrying the throne of Christ. Revelation 6 and the four living creatures explaining each of the four horses. Revelation 4, these four living creatures stand before the Lord!



Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195502
02/24/23 11:40 PM
02/24/23 11:40 PM
T
TheophilusOne  Offline
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Walter Veith has done a fantastic study of Zechariah.
Here is Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4glfJKATtQ

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195504
02/25/23 04:44 AM
02/25/23 04:44 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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There's lots of good information in that video. Thanksl.

I would like us to study Zechariah vision by vision.

THE FIRST VISION
Quote
Zechariah
1:8 I saw by night and behold a man riding on a red horse, and it stood among the myrtle trees in the hollow and behind him were horses red, sorrel, and white.
1:9 I said, My lord, what are these? So the angel who talked with me said to me. I will show you what they are
1:10 And the man who stood among the myrtle trees and answered and said,
These are the ones whom the LORD has sent to walk to and fro throughout the earth
1:11 So they answered the Angel of the LORD, who stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro throughout the earth and behold all the earth is resting quietly.
1:12 Then the Angel of the LORD answered and said, ?O LORD of hosts, how long will You not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which You were angry these seventy years.
1:13 And the LORD answered the angel who talked to me, with good and comforting words.
1:14 So the angel who spoke with me said to me. Proclaim saying, Thus says the LORD of hosts. ?I am zealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with great zeal.
1:15 I am exceedingly angry with the nations at ease. For I was a little angry. And they helped, but with evil intent.
1:16 T
Thus says the LORD I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, My house shall be built in it. And a surveyor?s line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem
1:17 Again proclaim saying, ?Thus says the LORD of hosts, My cities shall again spread out through prosperity. The LORD will again comfort Zion, and will again choose Jerusalem


How many characters do we see?
1.Zechariah the prophet
2. A man on a red horse. Most likely the LORD mentioned repeatedly in the vision. The word LORD is capitalized signifying it is the name of God. The pre-incarnate Jesus.
3. The angel that spoke to Zechariah


We see a MAN on a RED HORSE among Myrtle trees.
Remember, Jerusalem was still largely in ruins, the memory of their beloved city was painfully etched in their memory. Where were all the promises from the former prophets about being a people specially blessed by God. In their frustrations of trying to rebuild and being pushed down every time, it seemed they would never again be a nation.

So, here we see Jesus on a red horse symbolizing the blood shed before and during their exile, and He is standing amongst the Myrtle trees.
In Nehemiah 8:15 people were encouraged to get branches from the evergreen myrtle trees, during the Feast of Tabernacles for making booths; and in Isaiah 41:19 and 55:13 they are included in a description of messianic kingdom blessing.
It was symbolic of restoration and once again coming into favor with God.
Zech. 1:16 I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy, my house will be rebuilt.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195506
02/25/23 10:23 PM
02/25/23 10:23 PM
T
TruthinTypes  Offline
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Interesting thoughts! I too have been studying these visions of Zechariah. For me it starts back in Ezra 5:1-2. It was because of both Haggai and Zechariah's prophesying that they went back to work in the rebuilding of the temple of God.

In studying Ezra and Nehemiah I have found that there were three definite and distinct steps involved in the rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem:
1. The laying of the foundation.
2. The building of the temple.
3. The repairing/rebuilding of the wall.

I have looked at this as a type, and as such there is a key that has helped me to see it that way. It is the third step that gives the context to our time. Daniel tells us in Dan. 9:26 that the wall would be built in troublous times. The wall is the law, and the breach in the wall is the Sabbath truth. (Isaiah 58:12-13) It was literally rebuilt in troublous times, and was troubled by three distinct people, Sanballat, Tobiah, and Geshem. That can also bring it down to our time when the church repairs the Sabbath breach in the Sunday law time period. They will also be troubled by three entities--the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet.

So the three steps, laying the foundation, building the temple, and repairing the wall, have their application in our time. Our prophetic foundation was securely laid by the Millerites. The next phase should have been the building of the temple. We are the temple. In other words, we should have gone on to perfection of character, but went into Laodicea instead. This is represented by the Samaritans hindering the work, and by the Jews building their own houses first and worrying about themselves instead of being diligent to build God's temple. These two things (foundation and character) must be in place before we can successfully be used by God to engage in the loud cry and repair the Sabbath breach in the law.

It is interesting to note that the first angel was empowered by the prediction of the fall of the Ottoman empire by Josiah Litch (See GC 334.4-335.1--'Wonderful impetus was given',,) The second angel was empowered by the midnight cry, (See EW 238.1-2), and the third angel was not empowered immediately as it needed time to do its work. It tried to become empowered in 1888 but failed, therefore God's people were left to wander in the wilderness. It failed because the work of character had come to a halt due to prosperity. The first and second angels were based on time, but the third is not, as it did not come into existence until after October 22, 1844. In reviewing these things, it is important to realize that God does not leave His people in the dark concerning their place in history. Prophetic waymarks have simply switched from time to events. In other words, since October 22, 1844, we must ascertain our true position from the stream of events, rather than the stream of time.

These three steps of Ezra/Nehemiah correspond with the Three Angels--first, second, and third, and also the three parts of the Sanctuary--the Courtyard, the Holy Place, and the Most Holy Place. Each one must be taken in their order--No giving the third angels message without having first gone through the first and second. Likewise, no going into the MHP without first passing through the CY and HP.

Anyway, my long winded point I'm wanting to make is that just as it was due to Haggai and Zechariah that the work restarted on building the temple, I believe the same is true for us. There is something special in these two books for us if the Lord will give us the eyes to see, that will cause us to begin in earnest to complete the work of character, that we may truly become the Lord's temple.

Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195507
02/26/23 05:29 AM
02/26/23 05:29 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TruthinTypes
There is something special in these two books for us if the Lord will give us the eyes to see, that will cause us to begin in earnest to complete the work of character, that we may truly become the Lord's temple.


Interesting comments, though I probably don't understand your explanation of the three steps, But makes me think, I do see steps in Zechariah's messages that relate to the three angel's messages.

Yes, a person must first experience the everlasting gospel in Christ, and worship the Creator God, giving glory to Him, before they can move on to the second and third angel's message and we can see that in Zechariah's eight parables.
The parable of Joshua the priest shows that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, not because of any merit on our part, but as a free gift from God. That is a precious and liberating thought, freeing us from condemnation to serve in righteousness. The enemy of God and man is not willing that this truth should be clearly presented; Then like Zerubbabel and Joshua, believing that God for Christ's sake has forgiven our sins, press on through the power of the Holy Spirit, to fight the good fight of faith and grow in grace, building the living temple.

Only then can we move on to the second angel's message, and send the symbolic woman (counterfeit religion) babylon in the ephod basket with the lid on it, back to Babylon and call people out of Babylon.

The third angel's message fits with the 7th message, commandment breakers (who don't have strength because they missed the first two messages) will face the results of their sins.

But that's getting ahead of the parable by parable study -- yet does give thoughts to ponder.


Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195508
02/26/23 07:18 PM
02/26/23 07:18 PM
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TruthinTypes  Offline
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I'll try and clarify. I don't want to get us off track, but for me to understand the visions of Zechariah, I need some kind of context that is relevant to me in my time. Please bear with my detour into the three angels as I believe they are tied in to the understanding of Zechariah. In other words, it is the literal steps that were taken in the rebuilding of Jerusalem that give me the context to understand Haggai and Zechariah. These three literal steps--laying the foundation, building the temple, and rebuilding the wall--also have a spiritual application that make it relevant for me.

From my own study, I have concluded that a summary of all three angels are contained in the first angels message--Fear God, Give glory to Him, for the Hour of his Judgment is come. These three things represent the work of each angel, which also corresponds with the work and experience of each part of the sanctuary. They represent the work that must occur in the believers heart, which in turn must be taken in their order. This also give us a way to test our experience to see if it is correct or not. These three angels messages will not be given from theory, but whoever gives them will have become the messages themselves.

Fear God, Give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come, lines up with John 16:8--Sin, Righteousness, Judgment; with Daniel 12:10--Purified, made White, and Tried; with John 14:6--The Way, the Truth, and the Life; with the Laodicean message of Revelation 3:18--Buy Gold, White Raiment, and Eyesalve; and also with Ecclesiastes 12:13-14--Let us now hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God (First Angel) and keep his commandments (Second Angel) for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment (Third Angel), with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

When I began to look at these, it was the third step in each that stood out to me, and helped me to make the connection--Hour of his Judgment/Judgment/Tried(as in court)/the Life(as opposed to death)/Eyesalve(instead of blindness)/and then Judgment again in Ecclesiastes.

That the third angel is judgment, is found in Early Writings p.118.1--"I then saw the third angel. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner. These things should engross the whole mind, the whole attention.'"

1st Angel/CY 2nd Angel/HP 3rd Angel/MHP

Fear God Give glory Hour of Judgment Rev. 14:7
Sin Righteousness Judgment John 16:8
Purified Made White Tried Dan. 12:10
The Way The Truth The Life John 14:6
Buy Gold White Raiment Eyesalve Rev. 3:18
Fear God Keep commandments Judgment Eccl. 12:13-14

In each case, the first two prepare for the survival of the third.


For more clarification we could also add:

Physical Mental Spiritual
Justification Sanctification Glorification

A simple way for me to understand the sanctuary is to realize that sin goes in, and righteousness comes out.

It is in the courtyard that our sin is dealt with--the slaying of the lamb, the laver, etc. It is in the holy place that we are instructed in righteousness--the seven candlesticks, the oil, shewbread, etc. It is in the most holy place that mercy and judgment are blended--but still a place of judgment, as the law is contained in the ark. The law is the basis for the judgment.

The three angels are identical with the courtyard and the two compartments of the sanctuary, and points the way into the heavenly sanctuary. (EW 259-261) There is no longer a literal tabernacle/temple on earth that illustrates the work of the heavenly sanctuary, and has been replaced by these three angels. The tabernacle with its sacrificial services were based on the outward compliance to the law and was the old covenant--the letter of the law. The three angels are based on the same law but they write them in our hearts as the new covenant--the spirit of the law.


To keep this on track and in perspective, it was because of the failure of the Jews to complete the second step (the building of the temple) that the messages of Haggai and Zechariah were given. These messages gave the necessary reproof and encouragement that caused them to complete the temple. There was no ark in this temple, as it was to be filled with the presence of Christ Himself, in person. The same is true in our time as we have failed to complete the temple so that it can be Christ in us the hope of glory--the law having been written in our hearts.

The visions of Zechariah should be studied with the message of Haggai, as it was the combination of the two that caused them to complete the work.

Anyway, that is based on my own personal study, and I hope it all makes some kind of sense.

I have looked at several forums, and it is nice to see one where people are interested to actually engage in study. I have appreciated the comments.


Re: Zechariah's eight visions [Re: dedication] #195509
02/26/23 07:29 PM
02/26/23 07:29 PM
T
TruthinTypes  Offline
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I'm afraid that the list of those texts did not come out like I hoped they would. I laid them out as a chart, showing the work of each angel and the work of each apartment of the sanctuary.
Not sure how to do that here.

If you line them up under each text you could see better how they work.. Sorry about that.

The 1st Angel--Fear God/Sin/Purified/The Way/Buy Gold/Fear God
The 2nd Angel--Give Glory/Righteousness/Made White/The Truth/White Raiment/Keep Commandments
The 3rd Angel--Hour of Judgment/Judgment/Tried/The Life/Eyesalve/Judgment

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as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
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